A different approach at disproving OSAS

[Jethro Bodine]

Well of course when one turns from grace to law, then they have turned from faith "for the law is not of faith" I believe God has made room for many who are mislead into these errors and have strayed from faith, back to legalism. But I cannot say at what point He rejects these people who turn from "the way of righteousness" and turn as dog to its vomit, a sow to its wallow? In grace a believer cannot be moved, for it is by grace that a believer stands. Does this answer your question?

Not really. You're confusing me by suggesting a believer CAN fall from grace and suggesting they can not fall from grace at the same time. OSAS says a believer can not fall from grace. They are always and irretrievably saved by God's grace.

The Galatians were saved. They had the Holy Spirit. Yet Paul warns them of falling from grace and making Christ of no value to them, being severed from Him, if they abandon their faith in Christ for justification and rely on the law to be justified. OSAS says it is impossible for this to happen to Spirit-filled saved Christians.

No the scriptures are clear, do I need to post them? That is those who seek to be justified by law, that have fallen from grace and are "cut-off" from Christ. This is those who are cut-away from the Vine. In grace a believer cannot be separated from Christ- ITS IMPOSSILBE.

You're missing the point.

It's impossible for believers to rely on the law to be justified? Is that what I'm to glean out of what you're saying?

The saved Hebrew Church (Hebrews 6:9 NIV) was turning back to reliance on the law. And warned of the consequences of doing that.

 

[Eugene]

An excerpt of the following URL links.
John 6.44. "No man can come to me (Jesus), except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day."

John 10:27-29. "My sheep (Believers in Christ) hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: (28) And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. (29) My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand." (Notice here that we've been given to Jesus by the Father)

John 6:37-40. "All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. (Jesus won't cast us out regardless of our failures) (38) For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. (39) And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. (40) And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day."

Eph. 4:30. "And grieve not the Holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption."

In the above verses, we have been given eternal life (That is God's own life without beginning or end from the moment we're born again), and Jesus says He will not let any one take us out of his hand. The Father will not let anyone take you out of His hand, and the Holy Spirit has sealed us until the day of redemption. How much more secure can we be than God telling us in His word that He is totally for us?
http://www.christianforums.net/showthread.php?t=45800&p=700699&viewfull=1#post700699
http://www.christianforums.net/showthread.php?t=45800&p=700700&viewfull=1#post700700

Oh I've heard how a child of God can start losing faith, jump out of God's hand at will, pretend they're really keeping the law but continue to have to ask forgiveness, and quote a parable to cover its legitimacy. Maybe they can come to the point of no condemnation of them and others. In my thoughts it has produced more Pharisaical attitudes of self righteousness than anything else. Does God still love them, and are they still saved? Of course. Some go as far as not eating certain things (Romans 14:3), but God receives them.

1 John 3:20 For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.
1 John 3:21 Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God.
1 John 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

Blessings in Christ Jesus.

 

[George Muller]

Well of course when one turns from grace to law, then they have turned from faith "for the law is not of faith" I believe God has made room for many who are mislead into these errors and have strayed from faith, back to legalism. But I cannot say at what point He rejects these people who turn from "the way of righteousness" and turn as dog to its vomit, a sow to its wallow? In grace a believer cannot be moved, for it is by grace that a believer stands. Does this answer your question?

Not really. You're confusing me by suggesting a believer CAN fall from grace and suggesting they can not fall from grace at the same time. OSAS says a believer can not fall from grace. They are always and irretrievably saved by God's grace.

The Galatians were saved. They had the Holy Spirit. Yet Paul warns them of falling from grace and making Christ of no value to them, being severed from Him, if they abandon their faith in Christ for justification and rely on the law to be justified. OSAS says it is impossible for this to happen to Spirit-filled saved Christians.

No the scriptures are clear, do I need to post them? That is those who seek to be justified by law, that have fallen from grace and are "cut-off" from Christ. This is those who are cut-away from the Vine. In grace a believer cannot be separated from Christ- ITS IMPOSSILBE.

You're missing the point.

It's impossible for believers to rely on the law to be justified? Is that what I'm to glean out of what you're saying?

The saved Hebrew Church (Hebrews 6:9 NIV) was turning back to reliance on the law. And warned of the consequences of doing that.

"impossible"
Well its impossible to deny the scriptures that warn over and over of this very thing. I guess they are just vain since its not possible

Those who continue in the true grace of Christ, can never be separated from Christ. Those who turn back to the law from grace are those who are warned of being "cut-off" from Christ, they are those that do not bear fruit and are those which the Lords warnings are for.