A New Twist On An Old Debate...Evolution

[Moseme]

Here is what I am alluding to.
1 Kings 7. Please read and study there chapters.
13 King Solomon sent to Tyre and brought Huram,14 whose mother was a widow from the tribe of Naphtali and whose father was from Tyre and a skilled craftsman in bronze. Huram was filled with wisdom, with understanding and with knowledge to do all kinds of bronze work. He came to King Solomon and did all the work assigned to him.

48 Solomon also made all the furnishings that were in the Lord’s temple:

the golden altar;
the golden table on which was the bread of the Presence;
49 the lampstands of pure gold (five on the right and five on the left, in front of the inner sanctuary);
the gold floral work and lamps and tongs;
50 the pure gold basins, wick trimmers, sprinkling bowls, dishes and censers;
and the gold sockets for the doors of the innermost room, the Most Holy Place, and also for the doors of the main hall of the temple.

where did the wisdom, skill and materials to build the temple come from?

1 Kings 9
10 At the end of twenty years, during which Solomon built these two buildings—the temple of the Lord and the royal palace— 11 King Solomon gave twenty towns in Galilee to Hiram king of Tyre, because Hiram had supplied him with all the cedar and juniper and gold he wanted.12 But when Hiram went from Tyre to see the towns that Solomon had given him, he was not pleased with them. 13 “What kind of towns are these you have given me, my brother?” he asked. And he called them the Land of Kabul,[d] a name they have to this day. 14 Now Hiram had sent to the king 120 talents[e] of gold.

Solomon mistreated the King of Tyre, which strains Their relationship.

Please notice that the King of Tyre was very much inside the Temple. He provided the wisdom, craftsmanship and materials to build the temple, including the Holy places and their heavenly objects the Priests used in worship.

Again, Ezekiel was a priest who served in Solomons Temple and would have written mainly in a Genesis 1 form. Please read Ezekiel 26 with 1 Kings 9 in mind. Both of these chapters will give you insight into Chapter 28 and hopefully you will be able to see that the King of Tyre was very much present in the Temple.

Furthermore, the Temple represents Eden. It is a place where humanity and God walk in harmony.

Except I wouldn't think that the temple could have been a place for God and man to walk in harmony until after the dedication when God's glory fell on the temple after its completion. Would the king of tyre had been able to enter the temple at that time? If so than that would have been against the law.

 

[Moseme]

Sorry about the length as it is a lot to take in. It's hard for me to just write a little at a time as I'm use to full context of scripture to explain my understanding.

There is nothing in Genesis that would indicate a day as a 1000 years and yes, it gives days as night and morning, but not morning and night so this I can only ponder on the age of the earth.

Angels are essentially “ministering spirits,” (Hebrews 1:14) and do not have physical bodies like humans. Jesus declared that “a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have” (Luke 24:37-39).

Angels have no gender (Matthew 22:30) and are innumerable (Hebrews 12:22). They are incarnate in human form at times (Genesis 18:2-8) for the purpose of ministry. Angels also express emotions (Luke 15:10), are wise (2 Samuel 14:20) and powerful (Psalms 103:20).

Some angels are bound by time like the four angels in the river Euprates that God will release in His timing, Rev 9:14-21.

Jesus now speaks to the angel with the sixth trumpet and commands him to let loose the four angels that are bound in the Euphrates River that have been prepared by God for the hour, day, month and year of His angry indignation against those who follow after other gods. The four angels are Gods warring angels who will war against the enemies of God killing a third of mankind that refuse to repent.

John knows the number of the horsemen as he heard the number to be two hundred million. The four angels will take each to them five hundred thousand horsemen or Gods warring angels and since there are four angels that lead this army I would think they would go out to the four corners of the earth as they kill a third of the earths population.

Each horseman has a breastplate of fire, jacinth and brimstone. The breastplate represents the heart of these two hundred million warring angels that are being lead by the four angels as they are all subject to Gods will and purpose. The horse’s heads being likened unto a lions head represents strength, predatory and majesty of a ruler or king as being God in His fierce power of this particular chastisement on men. The fire, smoke and brimstone literally proceeds out of the mouths of these warring angels as we read in the literal fire of God in Exodus 9:23; 2 Kings 1:10; Numbers 11:1; 16:35; Leviticus 21:9; Psalms 104:4. By these three that are fire, smoke and brimstone a third of mankind will be killed.

There is more to this that I have written, but this is enough for this thread as this needs tobe a different topic of discussion.

Satan was created perfect in all his ways with beauty, wisdom and freewill. God placed him as the guardian or protector over the throne of God in heaven. He was entrusted with many possessions and found much favor in the Lord.

God created the earth and saw that it was good and he took Lucifer from Gods Holy Mountain and set him over the Garden of Eden as a covering cherub to watch over and enjoy all that was of God. As Lucifer was set in the garden iniquity was soon found in him as he defiled Gods sanctuary through pride in his own beauty and deceit as he wanted all that was of Gods here on earth to be his own as he tried to make his throne above the angels and be God.

Because iniquity was found in him God cast him and those angels who chose to follow him out of his holy mountain and cast them all down to earth to be trampled of all nations. The only reference in scripture that denotes there being one third of the angels falling with Satan is in Revelation 12:9.
(Ref: Read Ezekiel Chapter 28 Prince of Tyrus and Isaiah 14:12-15.

I had always just interpreted Jesus saying he wasnt a spirit as Jesus saying he wasnt a ghost. Otherwise I see no reason why Jesus's new glorified body would provide less reason to be afraid than an Angel's body id that was the case.

 

[Moseme]

Sorry about the length as it is a lot to take in. It's hard for me to just write a little at a time as I'm use to full context of scripture to explain my understanding.

There is nothing in Genesis that would indicate a day as a 1000 years and yes, it gives days as night and morning, but not morning and night so this I can only ponder on the age of the earth.

Angels are essentially “ministering spirits,” (Hebrews 1:14) and do not have physical bodies like humans. Jesus declared that “a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have” (Luke 24:37-39).

Angels have no gender (Matthew 22:30) and are innumerable (Hebrews 12:22). They are incarnate in human form at times (Genesis 18:2-8) for the purpose of ministry. Angels also express emotions (Luke 15:10), are wise (2 Samuel 14:20) and powerful (Psalms 103:20).

Some angels are bound by time like the four angels in the river Euprates that God will release in His timing, Rev 9:14-21.

Jesus now speaks to the angel with the sixth trumpet and commands him to let loose the four angels that are bound in the Euphrates River that have been prepared by God for the hour, day, month and year of His angry indignation against those who follow after other gods. The four angels are Gods warring angels who will war against the enemies of God killing a third of mankind that refuse to repent.

John knows the number of the horsemen as he heard the number to be two hundred million. The four angels will take each to them five hundred thousand horsemen or Gods warring angels and since there are four angels that lead this army I would think they would go out to the four corners of the earth as they kill a third of the earths population.

Each horseman has a breastplate of fire, jacinth and brimstone. The breastplate represents the heart of these two hundred million warring angels that are being lead by the four angels as they are all subject to Gods will and purpose. The horse’s heads being likened unto a lions head represents strength, predatory and majesty of a ruler or king as being God in His fierce power of this particular chastisement on men. The fire, smoke and brimstone literally proceeds out of the mouths of these warring angels as we read in the literal fire of God in Exodus 9:23; 2 Kings 1:10; Numbers 11:1; 16:35; Leviticus 21:9; Psalms 104:4. By these three that are fire, smoke and brimstone a third of mankind will be killed.

There is more to this that I have written, but this is enough for this thread as this needs tobe a different topic of discussion.

Satan was created perfect in all his ways with beauty, wisdom and freewill. God placed him as the guardian or protector over the throne of God in heaven. He was entrusted with many possessions and found much favor in the Lord.

God created the earth and saw that it was good and he took Lucifer from Gods Holy Mountain and set him over the Garden of Eden as a covering cherub to watch over and enjoy all that was of God. As Lucifer was set in the garden iniquity was soon found in him as he defiled Gods sanctuary through pride in his own beauty and deceit as he wanted all that was of Gods here on earth to be his own as he tried to make his throne above the angels and be God.

Because iniquity was found in him God cast him and those angels who chose to follow him out of his holy mountain and cast them all down to earth to be trampled of all nations. The only reference in scripture that denotes there being one third of the angels falling with Satan is in Revelation 12:9.
(Ref: Read Ezekiel Chapter 28 Prince of Tyrus and Isaiah 14:12-15.

also as for your theory about Satan being transferred from covering God's throne to covering the garden of Eden. I have 3 questions. Why would an all powerful God need someone to protect his throne and who is it supposed to be protected from?
Why would God have Satan covering the garden of Eden when he had given dominion of everything on earth to adam?
And I understand the verses used. But what evidence do you have to support your interpretation of those verses? Like it says covering cherub but what evidence is there that he covered Eden?

 

[for_his_glory]

I had always just interpreted Jesus saying he wasnt a spirit as Jesus saying he wasnt a ghost. Otherwise I see no reason why Jesus's new glorified body would provide less reason to be afraid than an Angel's body id that was the case.

1 John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

1 Cor 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
1 Cor 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
1 Cor 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
1 Cor 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
1 Cor 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
1 Cor 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
1 Cor 15:48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
1 Cor 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
Mystery and Victory
1 Cor 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
1 Cor 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1 Cor 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

The Bible does not describe in detail what our glorified bodies will look like, but will be like that of Jesus' resurrected body. In 1 Corinthians 15:42-53 our human bodies are described as perishable, dishonored and weak all due to sin. Our glorified bodies will be imperishable, honorable and powerful as we will no longer have natural bodies (flesh and blood), but spiritual bodies no longer focused upon the natural senses, but as one with the Holy Spirit. In all reality none of us will know what we will look like until we are changed and caught up to Christ for then we will be like Him.

 

[stovebolts]

Except I wouldn't think that the temple could have been a place for God and man to walk in harmony until after the dedication when God's glory fell on the temple after its completion. Would the king of tyre had been able to enter the temple at that time? If so than that would have been against the law.

Sure, I understand. However, Jews think much, much differently than non Jews like ourselves. Actually, the beginning of Ezekiel describes the Holy of Holies, and every Jew understands this.

This is why I asked if Levi paid tithes earlier. It's the same type concept. The king of Tyre was very much in the Temple, even after it was "filled with God's Holy Spirit".

This is why Jesus says,
Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.

And
But it will be more bearable for Tyre and Sidon at the judgment than for you.

Jesus is referring to Eziekial 28 above.

 

[for_his_glory]

also as for your theory about Satan being transferred from covering God's throne to covering the garden of Eden. I have 3 questions. Why would an all powerful God need someone to protect his throne and who is it supposed to be protected from?
Why would God have Satan covering the garden of Eden when he had given dominion of everything on earth to adam?
And I understand the verses used. But what evidence do you have to support your interpretation of those verses? Like it says covering cherub but what evidence is there that he covered Eden?

Satan was created perfect in all his ways with beauty, wisdom and freewill. God placed him as one of the two guardian cherubs covering the atonement cover of the ark in the tabernacle of God in heaven. He was entrusted with many possessions and found much favor in the Lord, Ezekiel 28:14, 15. The physical Tabernacle or Sanctuary in Jerusalem was patterned after the heavenly Tabernacle of God in heaven, Hebrews 9:1-5, 23,24; Exodus 25:17-22; 1 Kings 6:19-28. These scriptures describe the cherubim in the earthly Temple patterned after the heavenly. Ezekiel 28:12-15 identifies an angelic being who is called the anointed cherub who covers and he was on the holy mountain of God until God placed him to cover over the garden of Eden before Adam was created. We can only assume that Lucifer/Satan was one of the cherubs by the description in those scripture.

Gen 2:15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it. Man was created after God placed Lucifer/Satan in the garden as this is why Satan worked through the serpent to temp Adam and Eve.

 

[Link1983]

I had a thought. (Uh-oh!!) You know how the age of the earth is so debatable? 6000 years old or 13 billion years old and all like that? Gap theory, misunderstanding? I dunno.

But, correct me if I'm wrong here...The Lord created the heavens and the earth etc...but He also...stretched out the heavens too, am I right? Yes, it talks about that in Job and Psalms.

So the question: Could stretching out the heavens cause a time anomaly of the earth?

Is this a good question or am I all wet on this?

It's at least an interesting question to ask.
Not bad at all.
The Bible most definitely has a good answer on the subject. Although it might take some study, or find someone trustworthy who already has.
I am convinced about the gap theory after some studies. It also makes sense to science.
Einstein said that time could be bent. As time is relative to speed and so on.
Is anything constant?
Time is a creation. Like everything else.
God is beyond time. So a more important question to me is what I do with it.

L

 

[Moseme]

1 John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

1 Cor 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
1 Cor 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
1 Cor 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
1 Cor 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
1 Cor 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
1 Cor 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
1 Cor 15:48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
1 Cor 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
Mystery and Victory
1 Cor 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
1 Cor 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1 Cor 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

The Bible does not describe in detail what our glorified bodies will look like, but will be like that of Jesus' resurrected body. In 1 Corinthians 15:42-53 our human bodies are described as perishable, dishonored and weak all due to sin. Our glorified bodies will be imperishable, honorable and powerful as we will no longer have natural bodies (flesh and blood), but spiritual bodies no longer focused upon the natural senses, but as one with the Holy Spirit. In all reality none of us will know what we will look like until we are changed and caught up to Christ for then we will be like Him.

Yes we do know that we will have a body like Jesus's. But Jesus had flesh and he had bone. So our spiritual body will also have flesh and bone. Notice Jesus said nothing about him having blood even though he had open wounds. So we don't know what supernatural, spirit bodies are like but we know that they are still physical like our natural bodies. Just physical on a higher plane of existence that our natural minds can't grasp.

 

[Moseme]

Sure, I understand. However, Jews think much, much differently than non Jews like ourselves. Actually, the beginning of Ezekiel describes the Holy of Holies, and every Jew understands this.

This is why I asked if Levi paid tithes earlier. It's the same type concept. The king of Tyre was very much in the Temple, even after it was "filled with God's Holy Spirit".

This is why Jesus says,
Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.

And
But it will be more bearable for Tyre and Sidon at the judgment than for you.

Jesus is referring to Eziekial 28 above.

It's interesting and something that I'll consider.

 

[Moseme]

Satan was created perfect in all his ways with beauty, wisdom and freewill. God placed him as one of the two guardian cherubs covering the atonement cover of the ark in the tabernacle of God in heaven. He was entrusted with many possessions and found much favor in the Lord, Ezekiel 28:14, 15. The physical Tabernacle or Sanctuary in Jerusalem was patterned after the heavenly Tabernacle of God in heaven, Hebrews 9:1-5, 23,24; Exodus 25:17-22; 1 Kings 6:19-28. These scriptures describe the cherubim in the earthly Temple patterned after the heavenly. Ezekiel 28:12-15 identifies an angelic being who is called the anointed cherub who covers and he was on the holy mountain of God until God placed him to cover over the garden of Eden before Adam was created. We can only assume that Lucifer/Satan was one of the cherubs by the description in those scripture.

Gen 2:15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it. Man was created after God placed Lucifer/Satan in the garden as this is why Satan worked through the serpent to temp Adam and Eve.

It's an interesting interpretation but again there is no solid evidence that Satan covered the ark in heaven either. Also we have no idea what or where the mountain for God is. I mean mt Sinai was also called the mountain of God.

 

[for_his_glory]

It's an interesting interpretation but again there is no solid evidence that Satan covered the ark in heaven either. Also we have no idea what or where the mountain for God is. I mean mt Sinai was also called the mountain of God.

All I can go by is Ezekiel 28:14, 15 of what God told Ezekiel to write.

 

[for_his_glory]

Yes we do know that we will have a body like Jesus's. But Jesus had flesh and he had bone. So our spiritual body will also have flesh and bone. Notice Jesus said nothing about him having blood even though he had open wounds. So we don't know what supernatural, spirit bodies are like but we know that they are still physical like our natural bodies. Just physical on a higher plane of existence that our natural minds can't grasp.

I'm not sure we will be raised with a physical flesh body as it says flesh and blood can not inherit the kingdom of God. It's just one of those unanswered questions of wait and see what our glorified bodies will look like when Jesus returns for us.