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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join Hidden in Him and For His Glory for discussions on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/become-a-vessel-of-honor-part-2.112306/
A question for those who claim tongues for today.
- Thread starter Dave...
- Start date
E
Eve777
Guest
Absolutely. a teacher is your way of hearing about Jesus in the beginning of your walk. but....once you receive the Holy Ghost, this is the scripture you listen to.
1 John-1- 27
As for you, the anointing that you received from him remains in you, so that you do not need anyone to teach you. But his anointing teaches you about everything and is true and not false; just as it taught you, remain in him.
Job...do you believe that Scripture?
H
Henry
Guest
Eve
No dear you got it wrong again, God has called some and set them apart to be teachers, now you study the word of God so you may be aware of a false teacher. But never think that we do not need a teachers, we are called to deciple and be decipled, ever learning and ever teaching.
This notion that you have that you alone can know the things of God is not biblical. We are a body ONE not a body many, and for that matter you do not even bother to go to church in the first place, so I suspect that this notion is just a cop out.
And you really need a teacher, becuase woooo woooo you have missed the mark leaft and right.
No dear you got it wrong again, God has called some and set them apart to be teachers, now you study the word of God so you may be aware of a false teacher. But never think that we do not need a teachers, we are called to deciple and be decipled, ever learning and ever teaching.
This notion that you have that you alone can know the things of God is not biblical. We are a body ONE not a body many, and for that matter you do not even bother to go to church in the first place, so I suspect that this notion is just a cop out.
And you really need a teacher, becuase woooo woooo you have missed the mark leaft and right.
E
Eve777
Guest
You need a teacher in the beginning when you are learning about salvation. You need a teacher for the milk and meat of the word, for instruction into the ways of the Kingdom of God. ONce you have these things, you move on. We don't camp at the cross...we move on on the HOly Ghost and all he has to teach us.
{12} I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. {13} Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will show you things to come.
The anointing of the Holy Ghost that you receive, will lead you to all truth.
John was not speaking about teachers in this scripture below, he was talking to the congregation as a whole. They understood what he meant. These were spirit filled beleivers.
1 John-1- 27
As for you, the anointing that you received from him remains in you, so that you do not need anyone to teach you. But his anointing teaches you about everything and is true and not false; just as it taught you, remain in him.
You do listen to preachers and teachers and others in the church. We are all one body. But the need for instruction in Salvation is gone, once you become mature in Christ.
I have seen some teachers and preachers that are in need of instruction themselves. They think they have the whole message and they do not. They are cheating their congregation, big time. The leave out the most important thing that Jesus had to say..."Without his spirit, ;you are none of his"....He will say to them, "Get away from me, I never knew you"....(paraphased that part) What a sad day for those who trusted in a man to lead them and not the Holy Ghost....Their purpose driven life will have no purpose then. "You must be born again of the Spirit" .....it is a three part process....now there's your Trinity.
Repent(turn away from sin)........be baptised(for the remission of your sins)...........receive ye the Holy Ghost......(to be led to all truth, to become a part of the body of Christ..when you receive his Sprit,,you receive the power to become a Son of God.....
This truth may be hard for some to hear, but it is still the truth.
"You must be born again" Are ;you born again? I don't know. "Have you received the Holy Ghost since you beleived"
How will you know.....read the book of Acts...they knew...all ;those around them knew when they had received it......Don't trust me....read it for yourself with an open mind....There will be no one standing with you before God on judgement day....you alone will have to answer for what you accept and reject from his word...be very sure.....
{12} I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. {13} Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will show you things to come.
The anointing of the Holy Ghost that you receive, will lead you to all truth.
John was not speaking about teachers in this scripture below, he was talking to the congregation as a whole. They understood what he meant. These were spirit filled beleivers.
1 John-1- 27
As for you, the anointing that you received from him remains in you, so that you do not need anyone to teach you. But his anointing teaches you about everything and is true and not false; just as it taught you, remain in him.
You do listen to preachers and teachers and others in the church. We are all one body. But the need for instruction in Salvation is gone, once you become mature in Christ.
I have seen some teachers and preachers that are in need of instruction themselves. They think they have the whole message and they do not. They are cheating their congregation, big time. The leave out the most important thing that Jesus had to say..."Without his spirit, ;you are none of his"....He will say to them, "Get away from me, I never knew you"....(paraphased that part) What a sad day for those who trusted in a man to lead them and not the Holy Ghost....Their purpose driven life will have no purpose then. "You must be born again of the Spirit" .....it is a three part process....now there's your Trinity.
Repent(turn away from sin)........be baptised(for the remission of your sins)...........receive ye the Holy Ghost......(to be led to all truth, to become a part of the body of Christ..when you receive his Sprit,,you receive the power to become a Son of God.....
This truth may be hard for some to hear, but it is still the truth.
"You must be born again" Are ;you born again? I don't know. "Have you received the Holy Ghost since you beleived"
How will you know.....read the book of Acts...they knew...all ;those around them knew when they had received it......Don't trust me....read it for yourself with an open mind....There will be no one standing with you before God on judgement day....you alone will have to answer for what you accept and reject from his word...be very sure.....
H
Henry
Guest
Sorry Eve you are wrong, teachers are for our entire walk, not just teh begining. God called and made certain men to be teachers for reason. Which is why he typically gives them liberty to study and teach.
Never the less we also teach what we learn to others, and we then in turn learm more.
There is not a time when we do not need to have or need to be teacher.
I really wish you would stop arguing and listen, becuase you really need a teacher.
Never the less we also teach what we learn to others, and we then in turn learm more.
There is not a time when we do not need to have or need to be teacher.
I really wish you would stop arguing and listen, becuase you really need a teacher.
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Eve777
Guest
You listen to the Holy Ghost once you receive the anointing.
- Apr 2, 2003
- 23,102
- 6,270
Eve,
I couldn't count the heresies I have heard from people who claim to only listen to the Holy Spirit and not man. If there would be no need for teachers once one received the Holy Spirit, then it would not be a spiritual gift along with apostles, prophets, pastors, and evangelists.
Heb. 5:11-12, "11 Concerning him we have much to say, and it is hard to explain, since you have become dull of hearing. 12 For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you have need again for someone to teach you the elementary principles of the oracles of God, and you have come to need milk and not solid food."
I couldn't count the heresies I have heard from people who claim to only listen to the Holy Spirit and not man. If there would be no need for teachers once one received the Holy Spirit, then it would not be a spiritual gift along with apostles, prophets, pastors, and evangelists.
Heb. 5:11-12, "11 Concerning him we have much to say, and it is hard to explain, since you have become dull of hearing. 12 For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you have need again for someone to teach you the elementary principles of the oracles of God, and you have come to need milk and not solid food."
E
Eve777
Guest
It is not a spiritual gift. I am not referring to the Gift of tongues here. I am talking about the infilling of the Holy Ghost which he gives to all who obey him. Have you received the Holy Ghost since you believed? If so, when and how? Did he come upon you as he did in the Early Church? If not, I would find out why not and quit calling those who have, a heretic. Not meaning this to any one person. Have you received the Holy Ghost since you believed? What happend to those in the Early Church when they received the Holy Ghost?
A simple question.
E
Eve777
Guest
If you will notice, he is telling them they ought to be teachers by now,,,,not needing a teacher....being one, because he knew that by now they should be well versed in salvation and what it takes to serve God. They shold no longer need a teacher.....get that....they should be teaching others themselves......
and he is talking to men and women in the church...not just the men......
E
Elijah message
Guest
Eve777 said:
*******
Hi, I have been reading through these posts. You seem to be very close in your understanding of what takes place after one surender's the 'total will' to the Master. Acts 5:32.
Most here must look at themselves as teachers of sorts? Yet, each and every one agree on nothing much it seems?
(see Rev. 17:5) Other than you are wrong, huh? :fadein: I suggest that I for one more on the forum here, will listen to my Master's WORDS, which are inspired by the Holy Ghost, for myself too! See Rom. 8:14.
---Elijah
E
Eve777
Guest
Are you sure you won't to agree with me? It could color you with the same paintbrush.. :-D
If you try to tell some people that God communicates with his Children today, they don't believe it. They think he left us alone, even though the scripture clearly tells us, he didn't. Most of them are alone however without the Holy Spirit to guide them and just don't know it. Sad...
If you try to tell some people that God communicates with his Children today, they don't believe it. They think he left us alone, even though the scripture clearly tells us, he didn't. Most of them are alone however without the Holy Spirit to guide them and just don't know it. Sad...
E
Elijah message
Guest
Eve777 said:
*******
Hay, 'i' have been on the bottom of the pile many times :fadein:!
If a non/Converted person would read Heb. 6:1-5 and skip the negatives and verse 6, and just zero in on the POSITIVES only [at first], they would very quickly understand what they are missing! These one's were [MADE PARTAKERS OF THE HOLY GHOST!] That means that Acts 5:32's submission is a past/tense 'Ernest of the Spirit!'
---Elijah
- Apr 2, 2003
- 23,102
- 6,270
Eve,
I never said anything about tongues, I was clearly referring to the gift of teaching. Read 1 Cor. 12:27-31. My point was that teaching is a spiritual gift along with apostles, prophets, pastors, and evangelists (Eph. 4:11-13).
I haven't called anyone in here a heretic. Your understanding of these aspects of Scripture is wrong though.
Please give even one single verse that states teachers don't need teachers. Paul's point was that these were not recent converts and that they had slipped back to needing milk when they should have been on solid food. In Heb. 6:1 Paul states that it is time to leave the elementary teaching and go on to maturity, which he does. He is teaching them solid food - mature, deep teaching. No where does Paul state or even imply that they should no longer need a teacher.
I don't think you are understanding much of this discussion. No one here thinks that God doesn't communicate or has left us alone. You are even interpreting what people are stating through your false doctrine. That is very sad indeed.
I never said anything about tongues, I was clearly referring to the gift of teaching. Read 1 Cor. 12:27-31. My point was that teaching is a spiritual gift along with apostles, prophets, pastors, and evangelists (Eph. 4:11-13).
I haven't called anyone in here a heretic. Your understanding of these aspects of Scripture is wrong though.
Please give even one single verse that states teachers don't need teachers. Paul's point was that these were not recent converts and that they had slipped back to needing milk when they should have been on solid food. In Heb. 6:1 Paul states that it is time to leave the elementary teaching and go on to maturity, which he does. He is teaching them solid food - mature, deep teaching. No where does Paul state or even imply that they should no longer need a teacher.
I don't think you are understanding much of this discussion. No one here thinks that God doesn't communicate or has left us alone. You are even interpreting what people are stating through your false doctrine. That is very sad indeed.
E
Elijah message
Guest
Hi forum! Elijah here:
Anothers posted quote: "I don't think you are understanding much of this discussion. No one here thinks that God doesn't communicate or has left us alone. You are even interpreting what people are stating through your false doctrine. That is very sad indeed."
That is sad??? What kind of stuff is that? I DO NOT UNDERSTAND YOUR SADNESS EITHER!! (the Gift of Tongues is SAD doctrine??)
1 Cor. 12:27 tell's me that TEACHERS are [A GIFT OF GOD]. And are you not TEACHING me??
"Now CONCERNING SPIRITUAL GIFTS, brethern, I would not have you to be ignorant." (me, huh? and the worse still is that I am 'one' of the sad case!--Wow, very CHARITABLE of the Most IMPORTANT 1 Cor. 13:13 ingrediant)
"Now ye are the Body of Christ, and [members in particular].
And God [hath set some in the church, First apostles, [secondarily] prophets, [thirdly] TEACHERS, after that miracles, [then GIFTS] of healing, helps, governments, [diversities of tongues]. Are all -----?
Then the ending of the chapter's verse 27-30 "But covet EARNESTLY THE BEST *GIFTS."
Does one still need ALL of these GIFTS? SURELY!! Yet, are they to superceed the Word of God? Of course not! Yet, they all are to be eternally in the [Everlasting Gospel]! Even though tongues were more needed after the tower of Babel, they were still needed before! Think of the way that your own personal way communicating to me, or vice/versa is comming across?? :wink: Then read of the Holy Spirits work in Rom. 8:26 :fadein:
"Likewise the Spirit also [helpeth our infirmites]: for we [know not what we should pray for as we ought]: but the Holy Spirit itself maketh intercession for us .." (*Thank you Jesus!) Our 'TONGUES' need help in WORDINGS! (again, do all here understand what is being said?)
Now: I do not want to be misunderstood on this! But, how is that lack of understanding of a couple of us, sad??? Yet, the worse of the neglected gifts is in the government one of NO UNITY OF ORGANIZATION! Most here seem to believe in the 'loose' cannon style of organization! But that is another VOIDED out gift subject, huh?
Anothers posted quote: "I don't think you are understanding much of this discussion. No one here thinks that God doesn't communicate or has left us alone. You are even interpreting what people are stating through your false doctrine. That is very sad indeed."
That is sad??? What kind of stuff is that? I DO NOT UNDERSTAND YOUR SADNESS EITHER!!
(the Gift of Tongues is SAD doctrine??)1 Cor. 12:27 tell's me that TEACHERS are [A GIFT OF GOD]. And are you not TEACHING me??
"Now CONCERNING SPIRITUAL GIFTS, brethern, I would not have you to be ignorant." (me, huh? and the worse still is that I am 'one' of the sad case!--Wow, very CHARITABLE of the Most IMPORTANT 1 Cor. 13:13 ingrediant)
"Now ye are the Body of Christ, and [members in particular].
And God [hath set some in the church, First apostles, [secondarily] prophets, [thirdly] TEACHERS, after that miracles, [then GIFTS] of healing, helps, governments, [diversities of tongues]. Are all -----?
Then the ending of the chapter's verse 27-30 "But covet EARNESTLY THE BEST *GIFTS."
Does one still need ALL of these GIFTS? SURELY!! Yet, are they to superceed the Word of God? Of course not! Yet, they all are to be eternally in the [Everlasting Gospel]! Even though tongues were more needed after the tower of Babel, they were still needed before! Think of the way that your own personal way communicating to me, or vice/versa is comming across?? :wink: Then read of the Holy Spirits work in Rom. 8:26 :fadein:
"Likewise the Spirit also [helpeth our infirmites]: for we [know not what we should pray for as we ought]: but the Holy Spirit itself maketh intercession for us .." (*Thank you Jesus!) Our 'TONGUES' need help in WORDINGS! (again, do all here understand what is being said?)
Now: I do not want to be misunderstood on this! But, how is that lack of understanding of a couple of us, sad??? Yet, the worse of the neglected gifts is in the government one of NO UNITY OF ORGANIZATION! Most here seem to believe in the 'loose' cannon style of organization! But that is another VOIDED out gift subject, huh?
M
MrVersatile48
Guest
CONFIRMED IN THE MOUTH OF WITNESSES
I was drawn to this thread by a link on a parallel 1 claiming to disprove that miraculous, supernatural gifts are for today
Has God ceased to be miraculous & supernatural?
No
Has the work of the gospel got easier or harder as our Lord's return draws ever nearer?
Clearly harder, yes?
The age-old war of God v Satan, good v evil has never been fiercer!
There were more martyrs in the 20th century than in all the 1st 19 put together!
& since 9/11, born-again, Bible-believing, Spirit-led Christians are more persecuted than ever!
Yet, as Isaiah 60:1-2 promised, the darker the darkness in the enemies of the gospel, the brighter shines the glory of God in all who truly love Him, trust Him & take Him at His Word!
Isaiah 60
The Glory of Zion
1 "Arise, shine, for your light has come,
and the glory of the LORD rises upon you.
2 See, darkness covers the earth
and thick darkness is over the peoples,
but the LORD rises upon you
and his glory appears over you.
We see the promised Later Rain of Holy Spirit outpouring on all flesh, just as promised in Joel 2
Rend Your Heart
12 "Even now," declares the LORD,
"return to me with all your heart,
with fasting and weeping and mourning."
13 Rend your heart
and not your garments.
Return to the LORD your God,
for he is gracious and compassionate,
slow to anger and abounding in love,
and he relents from sending calamity.
14 Who knows? He may turn and have pity
and leave behind a blessingâ€â€
grain offerings and drink offerings
for the LORD your God.
15 Blow the trumpet in Zion,
declare a holy fast,
call a sacred assembly.
16 Gather the people,
consecrate the assembly;
bring together the elders,
gather the children,
those nursing at the breast.
Let the bridegroom leave his room
and the bride her chamber.
17 Let the priests, who minister before the LORD,
weep between the temple porch and the altar.
Let them say, "Spare your people, O LORD.
Do not make your inheritance an object of scorn,
a byword among the nations.
Why should they say among the peoples,
'Where is their God?' "
The LORD's Answer
18 Then the LORD will be jealous for his land
and take pity on his people.
19 The LORD will reply [a] to them:
"I am sending you grain, new wine and oil,
enough to satisfy you fully;
never again will I make you
an object of scorn to the nations.
20 "I will drive the northern army far from you,
pushing it into a parched and barren land,
with its front columns going into the eastern sea
and those in the rear into the western sea. [c]
And its stench will go up;
its smell will rise."
Surely he has done great things. [d]
21 Be not afraid, O land;
be glad and rejoice.
Surely the LORD has done great things.
22 Be not afraid, O wild animals,
for the open pastures are becoming green.
The trees are bearing their fruit;
the fig tree and the vine yield their riches.
23 Be glad, O people of Zion,
rejoice in the LORD your God,
for he has given you
the autumn rains in righteousness. [e]
He sends you abundant showers,
both autumn and spring rains, as before.
24 The threshing floors will be filled with grain;
the vats will overflow with new wine and oil.
25 "I will repay you for the years the locusts have eatenâ€â€
the great locust and the young locust,
the other locusts and the locust swarm [f]â€â€
my great army that I sent among you.
26 You will have plenty to eat, until you are full,
and you will praise the name of the LORD your God,
who has worked wonders for you;
never again will my people be shamed.
27 Then you will know that I am in Israel,
that I am the LORD your God,
and that there is no other;
never again will my people be shamed.
The Day of the LORD
28 "And afterward,
I will pour out my Spirit on all people.
Your sons and daughters will prophesy,
your old men will dream dreams,
your young men will see visions.
29 Even on my servants, both men and women,
I will pour out my Spirit in those days.
30 I will show wonders in the heavens
and on the earth,
blood and fire and billows of smoke.
31 The sun will be turned to darkness
and the moon to blood
before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD.
32 And everyone who calls
on the name of the LORD will be saved;
for on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem
there will be deliverance,
as the LORD has said,
among the survivors
whom the LORD calls.
The Acts 2 outpouring was like Israel's spring rains - as the church 1st sprang to life
Israel's Later Rain is in autumn/fall, to prepare the Final Harvest of souls - convincing & convicting folk of sin, righteousness & judgement as well as speaking in dreams & visions when folks' resistance is nil - as they sleep
That's why so many Muslims have had dreams & visions of Jesus & responded to Him: just as Daniel, in captivity in Babylon for nearly 70 years, read how God promised to free the Jews from there after 70 years, Dan knew that God wants us to believe Him so much that we claim His promises by faith
As Jesus said, "Whatever you ask in My name - (=according to My character & My revealed will) - I will do it: I will do anything that you ask in My name"
The Bible says, "God puts His Word even above His name"
So take Him seriously
At His Word
Doubt the doubters & believe the believers in Christ!
"Wake up, O sleeper & rise from death & the glory of the Lord shall shine upon you!"
We need to 'equip all the saints for the work of ministry 'more than ever!
Google AoG HQ & Elim HQ & see
http://www.elim.org.uk
General council of the Assemblies of God, offering news and official statements of beliefs.
Category: Christian Denominations > Assemblies of God
RSS: View as XML - Add to My Yahoo!
http://www.ag.org - More pages from this site
It's years since I read those sites, but I know that they both have some fascinating features
Meanwhile, see how the gifts were promised 'to you, your children...& to as many as are afar off...to all who believe thru their word'
See also, in Mark 16 - 'these signs shall accompany them who believe...'
14Later Jesus appeared to the Eleven as they were eating; he rebuked them for their lack of faith and their stubborn refusal to believe those who had seen him after he had risen.
15He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation.
16Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.
17And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues;
18they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well."
19After the Lord Jesus had spoken to them, he was taken up into heaven and he sat at the right hand of God.
20Then the disciples went out and preached everywhere, and the Lord worked with them and confirmed his word by the signs that accompanied it.
The height of the age-old war between God & Satan is when God's people need the spiritual gifts most - see 1 Corinthians 12-14 again
1 Corinthians 12 (New International Version)
1 Corinthians 12
Spiritual Gifts
1Now about spiritual gifts, brothers, I do not want you to be ignorant.
2You know that when you were pagans, somehow or other you were influenced and led astray to mute idols.
3Therefore I tell you that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus be cursed," and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit.
4There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit.
5There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord.
6There are different kinds of working, but the same God works all of them in all men.
7Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good.
8To one there is given through the Spirit the message of wisdom, to another the message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit,
9to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit,
10to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues,[a] and to still another the interpretation of tongues.
11All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he gives them to each one, just as he determines.
12The body is a unit, though it is made up of many parts; and though all its parts are many, they form one body.
So it is with Christ.
13For we were all baptized by[c] one Spirit into one bodyâ€â€whether Jews or Greeks, slave or freeâ€â€and we were all given the one Spirit to drink.
14Now the body is not made up of one part but of many.
15If the foot should say, "Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body," it would not for that reason cease to be part of the body.
16And if the ear should say, "Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body," it would not for that reason cease to be part of the body.
17If the whole body were an eye, where would the sense of hearing be? If the whole body were an ear, where would the sense of smell be?
18But in fact God has arranged the parts in the body, every one of them, just as he wanted them to be.
19If they were all one part, where would the body be?
20As it is, there are many parts, but one body.
21The eye cannot say to the hand, "I don't need you!" And the head cannot say to the feet, "I don't need you!"
22On the contrary, those parts of the body that seem to be weaker are indispensable,
23and the parts that we think are less honorable we treat with special honor. And the parts that are unpresentable are treated with special modesty,
24while our presentable parts need no special treatment. But God has combined the members of the body and has given greater honor to the parts that lacked it,
25so that there should be no division in the body, but that its parts should have equal concern for each other.
26If one part suffers, every part suffers with it; if one part is honored, every part rejoices with it.
27Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it. 28And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, also those having gifts of healing, those able to help others, those with gifts of administration, and those speaking in different kinds of tongues.
29Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? 30Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues[d]? Do all interpret?
31But eagerly desire the greater gifts. - to edify/build up the Body of Christ
Especially as Jesus, in Matt 24 predicted that, 'thru the increase in wickedness, the love of most will grow cold'
4Jesus answered: "Watch out that no one deceives you. 5For many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am the Christ,[a]' and will deceive many. 6You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come.
7Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places.
8All these are the beginning of birth pains.
9"Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me.
10At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other,
11and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.
14And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.
This is a most callous generation, inflicting the most brutal tortures on even babies & the very old & very ill
We need - more than ever - to know how 'Christ's love constrains us'
& 'equips us for works of service'
It ain't over till it's over
The perfect ain't come yet - Jesus hasn't returned yet
We need to 'earnestly seek the higher gifts to edify/build up the Body of Christ'
"Give us the tools & we'll do the job"
As James said, "You have not because you do not ask"
"Or, if you DO ask, you ask for wrong motives"
But if you sincerely want to glorify God & help folk, "If you, being evil, would not give your child a stone if he asks you for bread, or a snake if he asks you for meat, how much more gladly will your Heavenly Father give you the good gifts of the Holy Spirit if you ask Him?"
God bless!
Ian
I was drawn to this thread by a link on a parallel 1 claiming to disprove that miraculous, supernatural gifts are for today
Has God ceased to be miraculous & supernatural?
No
Has the work of the gospel got easier or harder as our Lord's return draws ever nearer?
Clearly harder, yes?
The age-old war of God v Satan, good v evil has never been fiercer!
There were more martyrs in the 20th century than in all the 1st 19 put together!
& since 9/11, born-again, Bible-believing, Spirit-led Christians are more persecuted than ever!
Yet, as Isaiah 60:1-2 promised, the darker the darkness in the enemies of the gospel, the brighter shines the glory of God in all who truly love Him, trust Him & take Him at His Word!
Isaiah 60
The Glory of Zion
1 "Arise, shine, for your light has come,
and the glory of the LORD rises upon you.
2 See, darkness covers the earth
and thick darkness is over the peoples,
but the LORD rises upon you
and his glory appears over you.
We see the promised Later Rain of Holy Spirit outpouring on all flesh, just as promised in Joel 2
Rend Your Heart
12 "Even now," declares the LORD,
"return to me with all your heart,
with fasting and weeping and mourning."
13 Rend your heart
and not your garments.
Return to the LORD your God,
for he is gracious and compassionate,
slow to anger and abounding in love,
and he relents from sending calamity.
14 Who knows? He may turn and have pity
and leave behind a blessingâ€â€
grain offerings and drink offerings
for the LORD your God.
15 Blow the trumpet in Zion,
declare a holy fast,
call a sacred assembly.
16 Gather the people,
consecrate the assembly;
bring together the elders,
gather the children,
those nursing at the breast.
Let the bridegroom leave his room
and the bride her chamber.
17 Let the priests, who minister before the LORD,
weep between the temple porch and the altar.
Let them say, "Spare your people, O LORD.
Do not make your inheritance an object of scorn,
a byword among the nations.
Why should they say among the peoples,
'Where is their God?' "
The LORD's Answer
18 Then the LORD will be jealous for his land
and take pity on his people.
19 The LORD will reply [a] to them:
"I am sending you grain, new wine and oil,
enough to satisfy you fully;
never again will I make you
an object of scorn to the nations.
20 "I will drive the northern army far from you,
pushing it into a parched and barren land,
with its front columns going into the eastern sea
and those in the rear into the western sea. [c]
And its stench will go up;
its smell will rise."
Surely he has done great things. [d]
21 Be not afraid, O land;
be glad and rejoice.
Surely the LORD has done great things.
22 Be not afraid, O wild animals,
for the open pastures are becoming green.
The trees are bearing their fruit;
the fig tree and the vine yield their riches.
23 Be glad, O people of Zion,
rejoice in the LORD your God,
for he has given you
the autumn rains in righteousness. [e]
He sends you abundant showers,
both autumn and spring rains, as before.
24 The threshing floors will be filled with grain;
the vats will overflow with new wine and oil.
25 "I will repay you for the years the locusts have eatenâ€â€
the great locust and the young locust,
the other locusts and the locust swarm [f]â€â€
my great army that I sent among you.
26 You will have plenty to eat, until you are full,
and you will praise the name of the LORD your God,
who has worked wonders for you;
never again will my people be shamed.
27 Then you will know that I am in Israel,
that I am the LORD your God,
and that there is no other;
never again will my people be shamed.
The Day of the LORD
28 "And afterward,
I will pour out my Spirit on all people.
Your sons and daughters will prophesy,
your old men will dream dreams,
your young men will see visions.
29 Even on my servants, both men and women,
I will pour out my Spirit in those days.
30 I will show wonders in the heavens
and on the earth,
blood and fire and billows of smoke.
31 The sun will be turned to darkness
and the moon to blood
before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD.
32 And everyone who calls
on the name of the LORD will be saved;
for on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem
there will be deliverance,
as the LORD has said,
among the survivors
whom the LORD calls.
The Acts 2 outpouring was like Israel's spring rains - as the church 1st sprang to life
Israel's Later Rain is in autumn/fall, to prepare the Final Harvest of souls - convincing & convicting folk of sin, righteousness & judgement as well as speaking in dreams & visions when folks' resistance is nil - as they sleep
That's why so many Muslims have had dreams & visions of Jesus & responded to Him: just as Daniel, in captivity in Babylon for nearly 70 years, read how God promised to free the Jews from there after 70 years, Dan knew that God wants us to believe Him so much that we claim His promises by faith
As Jesus said, "Whatever you ask in My name - (=according to My character & My revealed will) - I will do it: I will do anything that you ask in My name"
The Bible says, "God puts His Word even above His name"
So take Him seriously
At His Word
Doubt the doubters & believe the believers in Christ!
"Wake up, O sleeper & rise from death & the glory of the Lord shall shine upon you!"
We need to 'equip all the saints for the work of ministry 'more than ever!
Google AoG HQ & Elim HQ & see
http://www.elim.org.uk
General council of the Assemblies of God, offering news and official statements of beliefs.
Category: Christian Denominations > Assemblies of God
RSS: View as XML - Add to My Yahoo!
http://www.ag.org - More pages from this site
It's years since I read those sites, but I know that they both have some fascinating features
Meanwhile, see how the gifts were promised 'to you, your children...& to as many as are afar off...to all who believe thru their word'
See also, in Mark 16 - 'these signs shall accompany them who believe...'
14Later Jesus appeared to the Eleven as they were eating; he rebuked them for their lack of faith and their stubborn refusal to believe those who had seen him after he had risen.
15He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation.
16Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.
17And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues;
18they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well."
19After the Lord Jesus had spoken to them, he was taken up into heaven and he sat at the right hand of God.
20Then the disciples went out and preached everywhere, and the Lord worked with them and confirmed his word by the signs that accompanied it.
The height of the age-old war between God & Satan is when God's people need the spiritual gifts most - see 1 Corinthians 12-14 again
1 Corinthians 12 (New International Version)
1 Corinthians 12
Spiritual Gifts
1Now about spiritual gifts, brothers, I do not want you to be ignorant.
2You know that when you were pagans, somehow or other you were influenced and led astray to mute idols.
3Therefore I tell you that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus be cursed," and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit.
4There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit.
5There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord.
6There are different kinds of working, but the same God works all of them in all men.
7Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good.
8To one there is given through the Spirit the message of wisdom, to another the message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit,
9to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit,
10to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues,[a] and to still another the interpretation of tongues.
11All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he gives them to each one, just as he determines.
12The body is a unit, though it is made up of many parts; and though all its parts are many, they form one body.
So it is with Christ.
13For we were all baptized by[c] one Spirit into one bodyâ€â€whether Jews or Greeks, slave or freeâ€â€and we were all given the one Spirit to drink.
14Now the body is not made up of one part but of many.
15If the foot should say, "Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body," it would not for that reason cease to be part of the body.
16And if the ear should say, "Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body," it would not for that reason cease to be part of the body.
17If the whole body were an eye, where would the sense of hearing be? If the whole body were an ear, where would the sense of smell be?
18But in fact God has arranged the parts in the body, every one of them, just as he wanted them to be.
19If they were all one part, where would the body be?
20As it is, there are many parts, but one body.
21The eye cannot say to the hand, "I don't need you!" And the head cannot say to the feet, "I don't need you!"
22On the contrary, those parts of the body that seem to be weaker are indispensable,
23and the parts that we think are less honorable we treat with special honor. And the parts that are unpresentable are treated with special modesty,
24while our presentable parts need no special treatment. But God has combined the members of the body and has given greater honor to the parts that lacked it,
25so that there should be no division in the body, but that its parts should have equal concern for each other.
26If one part suffers, every part suffers with it; if one part is honored, every part rejoices with it.
27Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it. 28And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, also those having gifts of healing, those able to help others, those with gifts of administration, and those speaking in different kinds of tongues.
29Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? 30Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues[d]? Do all interpret?
31But eagerly desire the greater gifts. - to edify/build up the Body of Christ
Especially as Jesus, in Matt 24 predicted that, 'thru the increase in wickedness, the love of most will grow cold'
4Jesus answered: "Watch out that no one deceives you. 5For many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am the Christ,[a]' and will deceive many. 6You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come.
7Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places.
8All these are the beginning of birth pains.
9"Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me.
10At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other,
11and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.
14And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.
This is a most callous generation, inflicting the most brutal tortures on even babies & the very old & very ill
We need - more than ever - to know how 'Christ's love constrains us'
& 'equips us for works of service'
It ain't over till it's over
The perfect ain't come yet - Jesus hasn't returned yet
We need to 'earnestly seek the higher gifts to edify/build up the Body of Christ'
"Give us the tools & we'll do the job"
As James said, "You have not because you do not ask"
"Or, if you DO ask, you ask for wrong motives"
But if you sincerely want to glorify God & help folk, "If you, being evil, would not give your child a stone if he asks you for bread, or a snake if he asks you for meat, how much more gladly will your Heavenly Father give you the good gifts of the Holy Spirit if you ask Him?"
God bless!
Ian
J
John the Baptist
Guest
Elijah message said:
******
Hi, I have been reading through these posts. You seem to be very close in your understanding of what takes place after one surrenders the 'total will' to the Master. Acts 5:32.
Most here must look at themselves as teachers of sorts? Yet, each and every one agree on nothing much it seems? (see Rev. 17:5) Other than you are wrong, huh?
I suggest that I for one more on the forum here, will listen to my Master's WORDS, which are inspired by the Holy Ghost, for myself too! See Rom. 8:14.
---John (Elijah)
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Eve777
Moderator
Joined: 03 Apr 2004
Posts: 1524
Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2004 6:21 pm Post subject:
Are you sure you want to agree with me? It could color you with the same paintbrush..
_____
John here again: Well, I have read over most of this stuff a few times at least I reckon? :wink: (and have eddited it slightly) And again I must say that you come across to me more in tune with the Holy Spirits 'Leading' (so far at least) as Inspired in Revelation 18:4. With [His Teaching] to.. ".. Come out of her, [my people], that ye be not [partakers of her sins], [and that ye receive not of her plagues]."
Where has any/one ever been 'taught Truth' by any of 'these professed teachers' of the Revelation 17:5 verse???
One wonders why John the Baptist was not yoked to Old Israels 'membership' huh? He even had converts on the outside of the [ALL SLEEPING] Fold! Matthew 25:5.
Oh' I 'see' :wink: it was Christ & John who gave the 'Midnight Cry' to these ones!! :fadein: And surely even these ones of Rev. 17:5 can 'see' that God the Father gave His 'Blessings' for this [UNITY] of the two by having His voice stating that He was well Pleased in Christ!
And what was, & is the 'MIDNIGHT CRY'?? BEHOLD YOUR HOUSE IS LEFT UNTO YOU D-E-S-O-L-A-T-E! (see Revelation 3:9 for who now took over, & his student *teachers teaching?!
: )reply
Your responce was Baptist doctrine, but that is Ok because you guys are great soul winners. Something for you to pondrer: When we pray in tongues or our own language, Prayer is our spirits, to God by the Holy Spirit. I do have a heavenly language and it's really pulled out oof jams in my life.
May God bless, Golfjack
Your responce was Baptist doctrine, but that is Ok because you guys are great soul winners. Something for you to pondrer: When we pray in tongues or our own language, Prayer is our spirits, to God by the Holy Spirit. I do have a heavenly language and it's really pulled out oof jams in my life.
May God bless, Golfjack
I
Imagican
Guest
.........and God will offer STRONG delusion.........................
Golf,
Are there TRULY those that exist that are TRULY able to 'believe' that there is a 'voice of angels', (gibberish tongues)? And that 'this voice', (tongues), is able to benefit them in ANY way that their 'normal voice' was UNABLE to acheive? And whatever happened to the FACT that God KNOWS what we NEED BETTER than we ourselves? That He IS able to 'read our hearts'?
Paul was making an analogy when this 'voice of angels' was mentioned. He NEVER stated that there was a 'voice' that was NOTHING more than gibberish, that WAS the 'voice of angels'. That is a 'fictitious' figment of the imagination of those that MISINTERPRETED Paul's words.
I have HEARD all the arguments and have seen the 'pick and choose' mentality that it 'takes' in order to formulate such a 'belief'.
There WERE tongues. Paul SPOKE in these 'tongues'. But he ALSO explained that; IN THE CHURCH, HE had rather speak FIVE words of UNDERSTANDING than 10,000 in an UNKNOWN tongue. Now, if there are ANY that are unable to understand what he was saying, please, JUST ASK ME, and I'll TELL you. It's really NOT that complicated.
And these tongues, (so far as we have ANY clear knowledge of them), WERE LANGUAGES. Gibberish is NOT a 'language'.
Back in my younger days when DRUGS were the 'thing to DO', I have personally witnessed persons under the influence of hallucinogens that spoke in what sounded EXACTLY what 'some churches' state ARE TONGUES. Something that 'sounded like' some 'other kind of language'. And to tell the truth, it shot shivers up my spine for the 'effect' of such 'grumbling' FELT 'pure evil'. Like some kind of 'demonic' language. Something primordial in nature that transended ANYTHING personal and took on a 'tone' of 'something' surpernatural.
So, you see, I TOO have 'felt' the power of this 'gibberish'. I have personally witnessed it. But, having NEVER been 'taught' that it was 'special', I truly believe that it's intent was OBVIOUS to ME. There was 'something INSIDE' these people that NEEDED to 'get out'. And the most EERIE part of this whole thing? The people that I witnessed 'speaking in this manner' were COMPLETELY oblivious when they were 'finished speaking'. Much like they were momentarily POSSESSED by 'something' that they were utterly UNAWARE of.
Now, I have witnessed PREGNANT girls OUT OF WEDLOCK, still having promiscuous SEX, FLOPPING down in the FRONT of the church, WAILING out in what is 'supposedly' TONGUES. And I ask, is this TRULY how The Spirit ALLOWS utterance? Doubtful. A 'spirit', I doubt not, but The Spirit? Hardly. And my 'feelings' as witnessing such an event? NO different than the feeling I get when exposed to MUCH of our MODERN music that the 'kids' are listening to. Pledging one's 'soul' to satan with lyrics proclaiming their lust for the world and Satan himself.
Call me 'old fashioned' if that's what it 'takes' to dismiss my understanding. But I have YET to witness ANY form of tongues that offered ANYTHING positive except for the SELF EDIFICATION of those that WISHED for those around them to 'look at them in some SPECIAL way'. Please!!!! And I have YET to witness tongues WITH AN INTERPRETER that offered ANYTHING but 'utter nonsense'.
While I MUST admit that I have certainly NOT been to ALL churches and have not experienced EVERY usage of 'tongues', I have witnessed 'enough for ME' to come to an EDUCATED opinion that what I have observed at it LEAST is 'self edification' and LEARNED behavior. At it's worst, possible demonic possession where the person speaking doesn't even know what they are 'pledging'.
MEC
Golf,
Are there TRULY those that exist that are TRULY able to 'believe' that there is a 'voice of angels', (gibberish tongues)? And that 'this voice', (tongues), is able to benefit them in ANY way that their 'normal voice' was UNABLE to acheive? And whatever happened to the FACT that God KNOWS what we NEED BETTER than we ourselves? That He IS able to 'read our hearts'?
Paul was making an analogy when this 'voice of angels' was mentioned. He NEVER stated that there was a 'voice' that was NOTHING more than gibberish, that WAS the 'voice of angels'. That is a 'fictitious' figment of the imagination of those that MISINTERPRETED Paul's words.
I have HEARD all the arguments and have seen the 'pick and choose' mentality that it 'takes' in order to formulate such a 'belief'.
There WERE tongues. Paul SPOKE in these 'tongues'. But he ALSO explained that; IN THE CHURCH, HE had rather speak FIVE words of UNDERSTANDING than 10,000 in an UNKNOWN tongue. Now, if there are ANY that are unable to understand what he was saying, please, JUST ASK ME, and I'll TELL you. It's really NOT that complicated.
And these tongues, (so far as we have ANY clear knowledge of them), WERE LANGUAGES. Gibberish is NOT a 'language'.
Back in my younger days when DRUGS were the 'thing to DO', I have personally witnessed persons under the influence of hallucinogens that spoke in what sounded EXACTLY what 'some churches' state ARE TONGUES. Something that 'sounded like' some 'other kind of language'. And to tell the truth, it shot shivers up my spine for the 'effect' of such 'grumbling' FELT 'pure evil'. Like some kind of 'demonic' language. Something primordial in nature that transended ANYTHING personal and took on a 'tone' of 'something' surpernatural.
So, you see, I TOO have 'felt' the power of this 'gibberish'. I have personally witnessed it. But, having NEVER been 'taught' that it was 'special', I truly believe that it's intent was OBVIOUS to ME. There was 'something INSIDE' these people that NEEDED to 'get out'. And the most EERIE part of this whole thing? The people that I witnessed 'speaking in this manner' were COMPLETELY oblivious when they were 'finished speaking'. Much like they were momentarily POSSESSED by 'something' that they were utterly UNAWARE of.
Now, I have witnessed PREGNANT girls OUT OF WEDLOCK, still having promiscuous SEX, FLOPPING down in the FRONT of the church, WAILING out in what is 'supposedly' TONGUES. And I ask, is this TRULY how The Spirit ALLOWS utterance? Doubtful. A 'spirit', I doubt not, but The Spirit? Hardly. And my 'feelings' as witnessing such an event? NO different than the feeling I get when exposed to MUCH of our MODERN music that the 'kids' are listening to. Pledging one's 'soul' to satan with lyrics proclaiming their lust for the world and Satan himself.
Call me 'old fashioned' if that's what it 'takes' to dismiss my understanding. But I have YET to witness ANY form of tongues that offered ANYTHING positive except for the SELF EDIFICATION of those that WISHED for those around them to 'look at them in some SPECIAL way'. Please!!!! And I have YET to witness tongues WITH AN INTERPRETER that offered ANYTHING but 'utter nonsense'.
While I MUST admit that I have certainly NOT been to ALL churches and have not experienced EVERY usage of 'tongues', I have witnessed 'enough for ME' to come to an EDUCATED opinion that what I have observed at it LEAST is 'self edification' and LEARNED behavior. At it's worst, possible demonic possession where the person speaking doesn't even know what they are 'pledging'.
MEC
Jeff Mills
Member
- Feb 26, 2007
- 140
- 0
Eve777 said:
Oh Eve how I am with you 100% on speaking in tongues. There are times that i just dont know what to pray and then I speak in tongues. What a beautiful language. I believe it is also a sign that one is baptised in the Holy Spirit. I see the church today as a fire burning out. Where are the signs and wonders? Where are the miracles and healings? Where is the fire and the joy? Well, it is certainly in our church here in Guatemala. We consider miracles a daily occurence. Just this Thursday over 20 people were healed of sickness. But as I have preached in many churches around the world, I don't see any fire but I do see some smoke!
The church is not following the book of Acts. We should be writing Chapter 29! Tongues? Sorry guys if you think they are finished, then that is why I think so many churches are dead wood.
