A quick look at the 4 Christian baptisms

[JLB]

His prophecy is that the One coming (not the One who has come already but “is coming”) will demonstrate His power by cleaning out the threshing floor, gathering the wheat into His barn and burning up the chaff with in extinguishable fire.

Jesus came after John.

 

[JLB]

And why was Pet

Peter was Baptized with the Holy Spirit and fire on the day of Pentecost.



JLB

 

[chessman]

Jesus came after John.

Jesus had come about 30 years at this time.

And Jesus Himself was, [when] beginning His ministry, about thirty years old, being a son, as it was being supposed, of Joseph, the son of Heli,​

Luke 3:23 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Luke 3:23&version=DLNT

​

 

[JLB]

Jesus had come about 30 years at this time.

And Jesus Himself was, [when] beginning His ministry, about thirty years old, being a son, as it was being supposed, of Joseph, the son of Heli,​

Luke 3:23 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Luke 3:23&version=DLNT

​

Jesus ministry began after John’s.

John paved the way for Jesus.

John Baptized Jesus.



JLB

 

[chessman]

John Baptized Jesus.

Before or after He had come the first time?

 

[JLB]

Before or after He had come the first time?

One more time -


Jesus ministry began after John’s.

John paved the way for Jesus.

John Baptized Jesus.


In those days John the Baptist came preaching in the wilderness of Judea, 2 and saying, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand!” 3 For this is he who was spoken of by the prophet Isaiah, saying:

“The voice of one crying in the wilderness:
‘Prepare the way of the Lord;
Make His paths straight.’ ”
4 Now John himself was clothed in camel’s hair, with a leather belt around his waist; and his food was locusts and wild honey. 5 Then Jerusalem, all Judea, and all the region around the Jordan went out to him 6 and were baptized by him in the Jordan, confessing their sins.

7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to his baptism, he said to them, “Brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? 8 Therefore bear fruits worthy of repentance, 9 and do not think to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ For I say to you that God is able to raise up children to Abraham from these stones. 10 And even now the ax is laid to the root of the trees. Therefore every tree which does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. 12 His winnowing fan is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clean out His threshing floor, and gather His wheat into the barn; but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.”

13 Then Jesus came from Galilee to John at the Jordan to be baptized by him. Matthew 3:1-14

• After He was baptized by John, and was tempted by the devil, He began to preach and call His disciples to Himself.

From that time Jesus began to preach and to say, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.”
And Jesus, walking by the Sea of Galilee, saw two brothers, Simon called Peter, and Andrew his brother, casting a net into the sea; for they were fishermen. 19 Then He said to them, “Follow Me, and I will make you fishers of men.” 20 They immediately left their nets and followed Him. Matthew 4:17-20




JLB

 

[chessman]

One more time -

Actually, amazingly, this is the first time you’ve posted John’s entire prophecy.
I’ll take it then you’ll answer some questions about what he actually prophecied then:

I asked if John baptized Jesus before or after Jesus’ First Coming. Your reply was:

13 Then Jesus came from Galilee to John at the Jordan to be baptized by him. Matthew 3:1-14

Okay thanks. So it was after Jesus’s First Coming that John baptized Jesus.

7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to his baptism, he said to them, “Brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

Was the wrath of the Lord present at the Day of Pentecost or will it be present at His Second Coming?

He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. 12 His winnowing fan is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clean out His threshing floor, and gather His wheat into the barn; but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.”

Was Jesus literally there on the Day of Pentecost gathering wheat? Will He literally be there, harvesting wheat, at His second Coming?

And I saw and behold— there was a white cloud, and one sitting on the cloud resembling a son of man, having a golden crown upon his head and a sharp sickle in his hand. And another angel came out of the temple, crying-out with a loud voice to the one sitting on the cloud, “Send your sickle and reap, because the hour to reap came, because the harvest of the earth was dried-up ”. And the one sitting on the cloud cast his sickle over the earth, and the earth was reaped. And another angel came out of the temple in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle. And another angel came-out from the altar— the one having authority over the fire. ​

Revelation 14:14-18 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Revelation 14:14-18&version=DLNT

For I say to you that God is able to raise up children to Abraham from these stones.

Was anyone raised from the dead at Pentecost? Will anyone be raised from the dead at the Lord’s second coming?

11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I,

‘Behold— I am coming quickly. And My recompense is with Me, to render to each one as his work is. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.​

Revelation 22:12-13 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Revelation 22:12-13&version=DLNT

 

[JLB]

Was the wrath of the Lord present at the Day of Pentecost or will it be present at His Second Coming?

His second coming.



The Spirit of the Lord God is upon Me,
Because the Lord has anointed Me
To preach good tidings to the poor;
He has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted,
To proclaim liberty to the captives,
And the opening of the prison to those who are bound;
2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord,
And the day of vengeance of our God; Isaiah 61:1-2


What I bolded refers to His second coming.


The rest refers to His first coming.


That’s why Jesus left off that part when He quoted Isaiah’s prophecy about Himself -


18 “The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me,
Because He has anointed Me
To preach the gospel to the poor;
He has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted,
To proclaim liberty to the captives
And recovery of sight to the blind,
To set at liberty those who are oppressed;
19 To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord.”
20 Then He closed the book, and gave it back to the attendant and sat down. And the eyes of all who were in the synagogue were fixed on Him. 21 And He began to say to them, “Today this Scripture is fulfilled in your hearing.” Luke 4:18-21


Only that part of the prophecy was fulfilled during His first coming.


Likewise, the baptism with the Holy Spirit and fire was poured out on the day of Pentecost, while the Judgement and vengeance will be poured out at His second coming.



JLB

 

[JLB]

Actually, amazingly, this is the first time you’ve posted John’s entire prophecy.
I’ll take it then you’ll answer some questions about what he actually prophecied then:

I asked if John baptized Jesus before or after Jesus’ First Coming. Your reply was:


Okay thanks. So it was after Jesus’s First Coming that John baptized Jesus.


Was the wrath of the Lord present at the Day of Pentecost or will it be present at His Second Coming?




Was Jesus literally there on the Day of Pentecost gathering wheat? Will He literally be there, harvesting wheat, at His second Coming?

And I saw and behold— there was a white cloud, and one sitting on the cloud resembling a son of man, having a golden crown upon his head and a sharp sickle in his hand. And another angel came out of the temple, crying-out with a loud voice to the one sitting on the cloud, “Send your sickle and reap, because the hour to reap came, because the harvest of the earth was dried-up ”. And the one sitting on the cloud cast his sickle over the earth, and the earth was reaped. And another angel came out of the temple in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle. And another angel came-out from the altar— the one having authority over the fire. ​

Revelation 14:14-18 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Revelation 14:14-18&version=DLNT


Was anyone raised from the dead at Pentecost? Will anyone be raised from the dead at the Lord’s second coming?

‘Behold— I am coming quickly. And My recompense is with Me, to render to each one as his work is. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.​

Revelation 22:12-13 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Revelation 22:12-13&version=DLNT

One question at a time.

I answered your question above, now please answer mine.



Do you believe the baptism with the Holy Spirit and fire is to empower His disciples for ministry or burn up their physical bodies?



JLB

 

[chessman]

Likewise, the baptism with the Holy Spirit and fire was poured out on the day of Pentecost, while the Judgement and vengeance will be poured out at His second coming.

Or the baptism with the Holy Spirit was poured out on the day of Pentecost, while the Judgment and vengeance (wrath the John predicted) will be poured out at the baptism with fire at His second coming when He gathers His wheat and burns up the chaff (which is the outer covering of the wheat grain).

 

[JLB]

Or the baptism with the Holy Spirit was poured out on the day of Pentecost, while the Judgment and vengeance (wrath the John predicted) will be poured out at the baptism with fire at His second coming when He gathers His wheat and burns up the chaff (which is the outer covering of the wheat grain).

The question I asked was -

Do you believe the baptism with the Holy Spirit and fire is to empower His disciples for ministry or burn up their physical bodies?


Feel free to explain your answer, however if you expect a good discussion with people, then answer the actual question that is asked of you.



JLB

 

[chessman]

Do you believe the baptism with the Holy Spirit and fire is to empower His disciples for ministry or burn up their physical bodies?

I believe the baptism with the Holy Spirit and fire ARE to empower His disciples (His wheat) for ministry in the old Earth “and” to burn up their earthly, lowly, mortal, fleshly and corruptible bodies (the chaff which is the outer covering of the wheat grain) so that His wheat are then clothed with new, purified, less sinful natured, outer coverings/garments (heavenly bodies) suitable for immortality and incorruptibility in the New Heaven and Earth at the Lord’s 2nd Coming to match our Holy Spirit purified souls.

to give for those in mourning in Zion, to give them a head wrap instead of ashes, the oil of joy instead of mourning, a garment of praise instead of a faint spirit. And they will be called oaks of righteousness, the planting of Yahweh, to show his glory. ...​

I will rejoice greatly in Yahweh; my being shall shout in exultation in my God. For he has clothed me with garments of salvation, he has covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom adorns himself with a head wrap like a priest, and as a bride adorns herself with her jewelry.​

Isaiah 61:3,10 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Isaiah 61:3,10&version=LEB

 

[chessman]

The question I asked was -

Do you believe the baptism with the Holy Spirit and fire is to empower His disciples for ministry or burn up their physical bodies?


Feel free to explain your answer, however if you expect a good discussion with people, then answer the actual question that is asked of you.



JLB

That was in response to a previous post, not one in which you asked me any questions. I always answer reasonable (non-assuming) questions. If your questions contain false assumptions or assumptions not evidenced by the Scripture, I’ll point out the assumption. Such as your assumption that the baptism of the Holy Spirit and fire is a single baptism/cleansing versus a cleansing/purification of our souls AND later at the Lord’s 2nd coming a cleansing/purification of our fleshy bodies for His gathering of wheat and burning up of the chaff.

 

[WIP]

Please take the temperature of this discussion down a bit. Getting a little warm in here.

 

[Senior]

Why is understanding things from a biblical pattern, wrong?

Perhaps the biblical pattern majors in following the Spirit, being led by the Spirit, learning the meaning of verses from the Spirit.

 

[Senior]

What truth is it I don’t believe?

Why don't you provide a post #?
But, do you believe there is a big difference between receiving the Spirit INSIDE for initial salvation, and receiving "the baptism with the Holy Spirit" where He comes UPON the person?
Silly question I know, for I already know your answer.
Brother, I am not making fun of you ...
but I desire that you and others understand the Truth.

 

[JLB]

Perhaps the biblical pattern majors in following the Spirit, being led by the Spirit, learning the meaning of verses from the Spirit.

There is a biblical pattern for receiving the baptism with the Holy Spirit, this come first.

Therefore being exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this which you now see and hear. Acts 2:33


He poured out this which you now see and hear.


JLB

 

[JLB]

But, do you believe there is a big difference between receiving the Spirit INSIDE for initial salvation, and receiving "the baptism with the Holy Spirit" where He comes UPON the person?

The Baptism of the Holy Spirit involves being filled with the Spirit as well as having the Spirit come upon us.


And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. Acts 2:4




JLB

 

[Senior]

The Baptism of the Holy Spirit involves being filled with the Spirit as well as having the Spirit come upon us.
And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. Acts 2:4

Yes brother, but do you understand that this is not describing when a person initially receives the Holy Spirit,
i.e. the born-again experience?
This verse is describing the 120 who received BOTH blessings simultaneously: initial infilling (but not filled totally at all),
plus the baptism with the Holy Spirit (filled to overflowing).

This latter case has been experienced by many Christians
over the years, but it most certainly is NOT the normal
Christian born-again experience.
E.G. I was Spirit baptized 8 years later,
one year before being called to be an evangelist
(one of the five-fold ministries, Ephseians 4:11).

 

[JLB]

Yes brother, but do you understand that this is not describing when a person initially receives the Holy Spirit,
i.e. the born-again experience?
This verse is describing the 120 who received BOTH blessings simultaneously: initial infilling (but not filled totally at all),
plus the baptism with the Holy Spirit (filled to overflowing).

This latter case has been experienced by many Christians
over the years, but it most certainly is NOT the normal
Christian born-again experience.
E.G. I was Spirit baptized 8 years later,
one year before being called to be an evangelist
(one of the five-fold ministries, Ephseians 4:11).

My point was that the pattern for the Baptism of the Holy Spirit and fire, was established on the day of Pentecost.


I never said they were all born again and baptized with the Holy Spirit and fire on the day of Pentecost.


The pattern for being born again, is when we believe, which is to say obey the Gospel.




JLB