A quick look at the 4 Christian baptisms

[JLB]

I know, but John the Baptist did. Thus the problem.

No problem since he didn’t mention that the chaff being burned up was on the day of Pentecost.


So what you are now teaching, is that the baptism with the Holy Spirit and Fire, did not happen on the day of Pentecost, but the burning up of the chaff did?



JLB

 

[JLB]

BTW, it’s not Him burning bodies up like chaff, it says He WILL burn up the chaff, right after describing us as His wheat.

It’s not Him burning up the bodies?

Then you say -

“He will burn up the chaff”.


He will burn up the chaff, but no where does scripture say our physical bodies will be burned up at the baptism with the Holy Spirit and Fire.


That’s the problem I see with your theory.



JLB

 

[chessman]

It’s not Him burning up the bodies?

Then you say -

“He will burn up the chaff

Burning up something “like” chaff up (which is what I said) is NOT the same as burning up actual chaff. Just like the appearance of something “like” fire is not the appearance of fire.

And divided tongues like fire appeared to them and rested on each one of them.​

Acts 2:3 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Acts 2:3&version=LEB

He will burn up the chaff, but no where does scripture say our physical bodies will be burned up at the baptism with the Holy Spirit and Fire.

There’s no such baptism as “the baptism with the Holy Spirit and Fire”. Why do you capitalize Fire? And why assume it’s one baptism that occurred on Pentecost when there was no actual fire even there?

But yes He will (will not has) burn up the chaff after it’s threshed from His wheat which Scripture says is our earthly bodies.

​

 

[Senior]

If you have had the same pattern of experience they did
when they received the baptism with the Holy Spirit.

Brother, you are sorely mistaken.
Perhaps, you refuse to believe the truth about it.
Is it so terrible that Jesus chose some brothers
(and not you) for special tasks?
Not all of Jesus' tasks require this baptism of anointing.

 

[WIP]

I don’t see any reference to a baptism of fire.

I only see a reference to the baptism with the Holy Spirit and fire, in which the fire is an aspect of the Holy Spirit.

Looks like it is how one understands the use of the word "and."

 

[JLB]

Burning up something “like” chaff up (which is what I said) is NOT the same as burning up actual chaff. Just like the appearance of something “like” fire is not the appearance of fire.

You were teaching that the “chaff” was our bodies.

JLB

 

[JLB]

There’s no such baptism as “the baptism with the Holy Spirit and Fire”.

I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. Matthew 3:11


The Holy Spirit seems to disagree with you.



JLB

 

[JLB]

Why do you capitalize Fire?

Sometimes my phone just writes what it wants.



JLB

 

[JLB]

But yes He will (will not has) burn up the chaff after it’s threshed from His wheat which Scripture says is our earthly bodies.

Great.

Now all you have to do is provide scripture, which you haven’t, that says Jesus will burn our physical bodies with fire.


He resurrects our physical bodies from the dead, at His coming.


Now where does it say He will burn our bodies with fire.


JLB

 

[JLB]

Looks like it is how one understands the use of the word "and."

and there appeared to them divided tongues, as it were of fire; it sat also upon each one of them, Acts 2:3 YLT


Then a flame appears, dividing into smaller flames and spreading from one person to the next. Acts 2:3 The Voice


Then all at once a pillar of fire appeared before their eyes. It separated into tongues of fire that engulfed each one of them.
Acts 2:3 TPT


Then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them. Acts 2:3 NKJV




If we look at the event of Pentecost we see they were filled with the Holy Spirit and tongues of what appeared to be fire sat of each of them.


The common theme was the Holy Spirit and fire.


When study what Paul wrote about this we see the cloud, which represented the Holy Spirit, was both a cloud by day and a fire by night.


and they will tell it to the inhabitants of this land. They have heard that You, Lord, are among these people; that You, Lord, are seen face to face and Your cloud stands above them, and You go before them in a pillar of cloud by day and in a pillar of fire by night. Numbers 14:14




JLB

 

[JLB]

Brother, you are sorely mistaken.

Ok, in what way?


Why is understanding things from a biblical pattern, wrong?


JLB

 

[JLB]

Perhaps, you refuse to believe the truth about it.

What truth is it I don’t believe?



JLB

 

[JLB]

Is it so terrible that Jesus chose some brothers
(and not you) for special tasks?
Not all of Jesus' tasks require this baptism of anointing.

What task did Jesus not choose me for?


But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him.
1 John 2:27




JLB

 

[chessman]

He resurrects our physical bodies from the dead, at His coming.

No our fleshy bodies are not fit for Heaven, Yet. We are given new, Heavenly bodies at His coming as posted already. Now, all you have to do is believe it.

And what you sow is not the body which it will become, but you sow the bare seed, whether perhaps of wheat or of some of the rest. But God gives to it a body just as he wishes, and to each one of the seeds its own body.​

1 Corinthians 15:37-38 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=1 Corinthians 15:37-38&version=LEB

Our current bodies (even those at Pentecost) are earthly, dishonorable, natural, mortal, corruptible bodies. They return to dust. Then, on the Day of the Lord (not on the Day of Pentecost) it gets burned up and raised spiritual, incorruptible and glorified.

Thus also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruptibility. It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power. It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.​

1 Corinthians 15:42-44 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=1 Corinthians 15:42-44&version=LEB

But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will disappear with a rushing noise, and the celestial bodies will be destroyed by being burned up, and the earth and the deeds done on it will be disclosed.​

2 Peter 3:10 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=2 Peter 3:10&version=LEB

the work of each one will become evident. For the day will reveal it, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the work of each one, of what sort it is. If anyone’s work that he has built upon it remains, he will receive a reward. If anyone’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, but he himself will be saved, but so as through fire.​

1 Corinthians 3:13-15 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=1 Corinthians 3:13-15&version=LEB

Now where does it say He will burn our bodies with fire.

Sure it does. We are His wheat. He will burn up His wheat chaff (which is the outer covering of His wheat) and gather the grain into His barn. Now, all you have to do is believe it (or not).

Many will be purified and will be cleansed and will be refined, but the wicked will act wickedly and none of the wicked will understand, but those who have insight will understand.​

Daniel 12:10 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Daniel 12:10&version=LEB

Now, only our souls are purified through the washing/cleansing of the Holy Spirit. One day, our fleshy bodies will be refined through the washing/cleansing of the fire.

Having purified your souls in obedience of the truth for a sincere brotherly-love— love one another fervently from a pure heart, having been born-again not from perishable seed but imperishable, through the living and abiding word of God. Because “All flesh is like grass and all its glory like a flower of grass. The grass was dried-up and the flower fell-off. But the word of the Lord abides forever” [Isa 40:6-8]— and this is the word having been announced-as-good-news to you.​

1 Peter 1:22-25 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=1 Peter 1:22-25&version=DLNT

Notice Peter (Like John the Baptist in his sermon just before prophesying a baptism with the Holy Spirit “and” fire) is quoting Isaiah 40.

Indeed, hardly are they planted; indeed, hardly are they sown; indeed, hardly has their shoot taken root in the earth when he blows on them and they wither, and the tempest carries them like stubble.​

Isaiah 40:24 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Isaiah 40:24&version=LEB

Look! They are like stubble; the fire burns them completely. They cannot deliver themselves from the power of the flame; there is no coal for warming oneself, no fire before which to sit.​

Isaiah 47:14 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Isaiah 47:14&version=LEB

Just as no man can purify his own soul without baptism of the Holy Spirit (it takes the Holy Spirit), he cannot purify his flesh. It takes the refiner’s fire.

And who can endure the day of his coming? And who is the one who can stand when he appears? For he is like a refiner’s fire, like launderers’ alkali. He will sit as a refiner and purifier of silver; he will purify the children of Levi, and he will refine them like gold and like silver, and they will present to Yahweh offerings in righteousness.​

Malachi 3:2-3 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Malachi 3:2-3&version=LEB

 

[JLB]

No our fleshy bodies are not fit for Heaven, Yet. We are given new, Heavenly bodies at His coming as posted already. Now, all you have to do is believe it.

So now you are posting what I have been teaching.

Great keep the good work!

Amen.



JLB

 

[JLB]

Then, on the Day of the Lord (not on the Day of Pentecost) it gets burned up and raised spiritual, incorruptible and glorified.

Thus also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruptibility. It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power. It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.1 Corinthians 15:42-44 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=1 Corinthians 15:42-44&version=LEB

Sorry bro, no mention of our physical bodies being burned up?


Stick to orthodox teaching from the scriptures.



JLB

 

[JLB]

But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will disappear with a rushing noise, and the celestial bodies will be destroyed by being burned up, and the earth and the deeds done on it will be disclosed.2 Peter 3:10 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=2 Peter 3:10&version=LEB

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up. Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.
Therefore, beloved, looking forward to these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, without spot and blameless; 2 Peter 3:10-14


The earth and the works are burned up.


Peter is teaching about the day of the Lord, and just like Paul, who plainly taught that we are resurrected and raptured, at His coming and are not burned up.


You stretching your belief about the baptism of the Holy Spirit and fire, that occurred on the day of Pentecost, into the resurrection of the dead, at the coming of the Lord.


Again, here is what happens on the day of the Lord concerning our resurrection and rapture.


For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words.
But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-5:3


The Church is resurrected and raptured with transformed bodies, not burned up.

The wicked are destroyed.



JLB

 

[JLB]

Just as no man can purify his own soul without baptism of the Holy Spirit (it takes the Holy Spirit), he cannot purify his flesh. It takes the refiner’s fire.

And who can endure the day of his coming? And who is the one who can stand when he appears? For he is like a refiner’s fire, like launderers’ alkali. He will sit as a refiner and purifier of silver; he will purify the children of Levi, and he will refine them like gold and like silver, and they will present to Yahweh offerings in righteousness.Malachi 3:2-3 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Malachi 3:2-3&version=LEB

Amen, the Baptism of the Holy Spirit and fire is a cleansing and purifying that cleanses the soul.


Not burns up our physical bodies.



JLB

 

[chessman]

Stick to orthodox teaching from the scriptures.

Oh, I am. It is you who has wandered from the orthodox view which clearly teaches that the baptism with fire has not yet happened. Like I said, there was no fire on the day of Pentecost. There appeared to the tongues “like” fire, not fire. The orthodox view is that it will happen on the day the Lord returns. Which is why John the Baptist attributes it to Him. Irenaeus, in his fourth Book against Heresies says:

"For the day of the Lord cometh as a burning furnace, and all sinners shall be stubble, they who do evil things, and the day shall burn them up." Now, who this Lord is that brings such a day about, John the Baptist points out, when he says of Christ, "He shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire, having His fan in His hand to cleanse His floor; and He will gather His fruit into the garner, but the chaff He will burn up with unquenchable fire."​

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book4.html​

​

Unlike you, he doesn’t cut John’s prophecy in half without including it’s interpretation. That is, burning up the chaff. Which BTW could have been settled a long time ago if you would have chosen to simply answer; What got burned up that day? But oh well, que sera sera.

You stretching your belief about the baptism of the Holy Spirit and fire, that occurred on the day of Pentecost, into the resurrection of the dead, at the coming of the Lord.

Tell that to Irenaeus

Nowhere does Scripture say that baptism with fire occurred on the day of Pentecost. You’re stretching.

 

[JLB]

Oh, I am. It is you who has wandered from the orthodox view which clearly teaches that the baptism with fire has not yet happened.

The Baptism with the Holy Spirit and fire is widely accepted has occurring on the day of Pentecost.

I have never heard anyone ever try and teach that the baptism with the Holy Spirit and fire is when Jesus burns up our physical bodies with fire.


But, just because I have never heard of this doctrine of Jesus burning up our physical bodies, doesn’t mean people don’t teach it.

You would be the first that I have ever heard of teaching this.


JLB