A Scenario

[jasonc]

Brother Jason, exactly what is there to be sought in your heritage that could surpass the glory God has prepared for you in Christ?

In Rom 11:1 Paul said, “I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.”

And Paul continues:
Php 3:3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.
Php 3:4 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:
Php 3:5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;
Php 3:6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
Php 3:7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.
Php 3:8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
Php 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

Is that the end of Paul’s race?
2 Tim 4:6 For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand.
2 Tim 4:7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith: Do you think Paul was
2 Tim 4:8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

In all this do you think Paul was reminiscing his heritage as being a member of the tribe of Benjamin? What more could he have gained? We’re even told in 1 Co 11:1 “Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.” Why? Rom 2:16, “In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.”

God bless you in Jesus’ name, and remember Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

yet your doctrine denies that, in that jesus returns for isreal. here and nowhere does paul whine as I did, though I did so to make a point. land? do I want it. if its promised but really? not if god says no. the point I was making is that you (which you made for me) is that isreal is the church, here on out. there can be no two bodies. you just said that my nature isreali inheritance and tribal promises aren't important. yet you ascribe to futurism I don't get that at all. either these Hebrews are in the promise to god or they aren't. im in that promise and as all Hebrews. there can be no denying that.

the future church of isreal as you just confessed here

The one hundred and forty-four thousand are the last rank of the Church to go up to heaven, but there is still the Church, or God's kingdom as we would say and I prefer to call as God's kingdom on the earth because there will still be Gentile nations that Israel is going to be ministering to during the millennial period. Where do they come from? Well I believe they have come out of many of these nations that they are known by their Catholicism, and yet they have known Christ as Savior. They have come all the way through the tribulation period and will in a measure reign over these nations who will be subordinate to the one hundred and forty-four thousand but they will in some degree have a place of reigning and ruling with Christ. That Catholic system is going to be judged in Revelation Chapters Seventeen and Eighteen, but again that's just the system and not the people involved with her. They're exhorted to come out of her, and so thus there is a certain reward for those who go on through that complete tribulation period

uhm so how does this isreal which is now a bunch of goy be isreal? then where is there tribes? where is the levites that minister in the temple per Ezekiel 40-48? where is the prince whom minister unto the lord in the temple at times? of whom will be the jew that the goy latch too? a goy isn't a jew, neither is a jew a goy.

 

[Eugene]

If the second coming can't happen any day at any second because there is still prophecy that needs to be fulfilled, then has every Christian for the past two thousand years been watching in vain?

There is those that die in Christ that will precede them that are alive at Jesus' coming for them.
Rev 2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

 

[Eugene]

yet your doctrine denies that, in that jesus returns for isreal. here and nowhere does paul whine as I did, though I did so to make a point. land? do I want it. if its promised but really? not if god says no. the point I was making is that you (which you made for me) is that isreal is the church, here on out. there can be no two bodies. you just said that my nature isreali inheritance and tribal promises aren't important. yet you ascribe to futurism I don't get that at all. either these Hebrews are in the promise to god or they aren't. im in that promise and as all Hebrews. there can be no denying that.

the future church of isreal as you just confessed here

uhm so how does this isreal which is now a bunch of goy be isreal? then where is there tribes? where is the levites that minister in the temple per Ezekiel 40-48? where is the prince whom minister unto the lord in the temple at times? of whom will be the jew that the goy latch too? a goy isn't a jew, neither is a jew a goy.

I must be missing the point you're making brother. I have no plans of being on earth during the millennium, nor should any that are born of God at this time regardless of their genealogy.

I also have no plans of being other than the bride of Christ. Futurism? Not on your life, but mine.

You also state there cannot be two bodies of the church, and you are right in my opinion; there is one head of the church (Jesus), and us (His body). Will we all have the same reward depending on our walk with Him? In no way. Can you tell me what you expect as being a Jew in Christ Jesus versus just being a Gentile child of God?

 

[jasonc]

I must be missing the point you're making brother. I have no plans of being on earth during the millennium, nor should any that are born of God at this time regardless of their genealogy.

I also have no plans of being other than the bride of Christ. Futurism? Not on your life.

You also state there cannot be two bodies of the church, and you are right in my opinion; there is one head of the church (Jesus), and us (His body). Will we all have the same reward depending on our walk with Him? In no way. Can you tell me what you expect as being a Jew in Christ Jesus versus just being a Gentile child of God?

I answer that last line with. what is the need for the millennium then if a jew is the same a Christian? you know where I stand. yet you believe in some weird view of isreal where no jew is really a jew then. why because only a jew can be isreal.or rather Hebrew. is isreal not isreal and the church not the church? where in the bible does it say our rewards are as such believe before the rapture and one is in heaven and after one isn't? where is that? the resurrection bodily occurs when? that is why I say theres only one the context of thessalonians mentions the answer to the resurrection being questioned and again its the same in corithians in that he is talking about the return. since death is still there. how many ressurections are there? one, two? three?

if a Hebrew child is alive in the trib, why is he punished for something he had no power over? he confessed and he dies. where is his soul then? heaven? in limbo? so in heaven at the trib we have disbembodies souls, with the saints in their heveanly form that isn't the new body given.

read romans 10, it mentions a time of the gentiles and isreal being purged of her sins. how can that be if all of isreal is goy?

 

[jasonc]

oh and you have NO control over what god does if you are saved, you gave rights to him at the time of repentance, not that we ever had a right to our life. he always had it and will do so. he allows us to choose him or reject but what we do is under his grand scheme.

 

[Eugene]

I answer that last line with. what is the need for the millennium then if a jew is the same a Christian? you know where I stand. yet you believe in some weird view of isreal where no jew is really a jew then. why because only a jew can be isreal.or rather Hebrew. is isreal not isreal and the church not the church? where in the bible does it say our rewards are as such believe before the rapture and one is in heaven and after one isn't? where is that? the resurrection bodily occurs when? that is why I say theres only one the context of thessalonians mentions the answer to the resurrection being questioned and again its the same in corithians in that he is talking about the return. since death is still there. how many ressurections are there? one, two? three?

if a Hebrew child is alive in the trib, why is he punished for something he had no power over? he confessed and he dies. where is his soul then? heaven? in limbo? so in heaven at the trib we have disbembodies souls, with the saints in their heveanly form that isn't the new body given.

read romans 10, it mentions a time of the gentiles and isreal being purged of her sins. how can that be if all of isreal is goy?

Wow, I'll attempt to make myself clearer. I do not believe Israel as a nation is the church. Next I do not believe any of the church enters the millennium on earth. Those of Israel believing on the Lord during the tribulation will enter the millennium alive if they endure until the end of that period, and become witnesses to the nations.

You ask how many resurrections there are, and there are two; the resurrection of Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Romans Chapters Nine, Ten, and Eleven are directed greatly at Israel in the past, Israel today, and Israel future. Israel has the same opportunity of receiving Christ today as the Gentiles. Will their tradition hold them from doing so?
We read in Rom 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
Rom 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth. Is the Israel described here believing in Christ?

Now the following scripture refers to Israel as a nation; not individual elect such as Paul.
Rom 11:7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
Rom 11:8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.
Rom 11:9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:

You speak against futurism, yet have you seen the following occur?
Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

 

[jasonc]

Wow, I'll attempt to make myself clearer. I do not believe Israel as a nation is the church. Next I do not believe any of the church enters the millennium on earth. Those of Israel believing on the Lord during the tribulation will enter the millennium alive if they endure until the end of that period, and become witnesses to the nations.

You ask how many resurrections there are, and there are two; the resurrection of Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Romans Chapters Nine, Ten, and Eleven are directed greatly at Israel in the past, Israel today, and Israel future. Israel has the same opportunity of receiving Christ today as the Gentiles. Will their tradition hold them from doing so?
We read in Rom 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
Rom 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth. Is the Israel described here believing in Christ?

Now the following scripture refers to Israel as a nation; not individual elect such as Paul.
Rom 11:7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
Rom 11:8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.
Rom 11:9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:

You speak against futurism, yet have you seen the following occur?
Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

you do realize that modern isreal has arabs in her and one time had more arabs then Hebrews, the problem here is that is a group. isreal isn't just land. if so then Abraham never really was in the land per se. he possessed it by faith but the fact Is canaan wasn't given unto him in that he had to live the goy. next. what does the raptured church that has say the apostles that are Hebrews mean? do they not count. yet jesus said they would reign over the land. so its a bunch of Hebrews that don't believe at the second coming that get allowed to live?

so a physical land is saved or the people? you do know that there abouts the same amount of Hebrews in America and in isreal? that if I take your doctrine seriously. once a Hebrew ventures out of isreal isn't a Hebrew at all!

and show me where jesus said when I return, im allowing isreal to be once again? where is that per HIM saying it? I paraphrase hitch.

john and paul cant contradict what jesus did or said about the end of the age

how many jews and Hebrew are and have been saved? millions, I bet its up there. show me where in matthew 24, that Jerusalem is victorious in battle.

jesus says this. be ready when I come back. nothing about any second chances and that part about he that endureth to the end

rev 3

7 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;

8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.

9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.

12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

so that wasn't for that church they don't have to overcome? why then did jesus tell them that if there was no tribulation for them?

and this. from the revalation 2

24 But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden.

25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.

26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

28 And I will give him the morning star.

29 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches

so its not a works salvation then? but it will be? that is why I don't buy futurism. it implies at times some weird idea of works, the torah was never about works. there was grace then. there was even the concept of being born again! the idea of peshac has that. jews rejoice at that feast in that they say isreal was birthed after that event! how can that be if isreal was in Egypt and in bondage!?

 

[Eugene]

Jason - you do realize that modern isreal has arabs in her and one time had more arabs then Hebrews, the problem here is that is a group. isreal isn't just land. if so then Abraham never really was in the land per se. he possessed it by faith but the fact Is canaan wasn't given unto him in that he had to live the goy.
Eugene – If we see the end, within the nations is the camp of the saints Satan gathers the nations against in Rev 20:9. Are they mostly Israel? And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

Jason - next. what does the raptured church that has say the apostles that are Hebrews mean? do they not count. yet jesus said they would reign over the land. so its a bunch of Hebrews that don't believe at the second coming that get allowed to live?
Eugene - Where does John see those Apostles that will judge the tribes of Israel?

Where will Jesus’ throne be? Rev 4:2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne. Brother, this is Jesus’ throne and those apostles are with Him. Mat 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. In glory with our Savior those apostles will judge OVER the earth from heaven.

I don’t understand what you are asking about Hebrews that don’t believe getting to live. There will be a multitude of Hebrews alive during the millennium that probably never come to believe God, and their end will be like all unbelievers.

Jason - so a physical land is saved or the people? you do know that there abouts the same amount of Hebrews in America and in isreal? that if I take your doctrine seriously. once a Hebrew ventures out of isreal isn't a Hebrew at all!
Eugene – You’ll have to give me scripture on that one, and not some tradition from the Talmud or whatever. You mention taking my doctrine serious, and you believed Hitch? Uh, where is reba?

Jason - and show me where jesus said when I return, im allowing isreal to be once again? where is that per HIM saying it? I paraphrase hitch.

how many jews and Hebrew are and have been saved? millions, I bet its up there. show me where in matthew 24, that Jerusalem is victorious in battle.
Eugene – Again, when Satan gathers the nations against the camp of the saints at the end of the millennium, it is not the saints that win the battle. God sends down fire and makes them into crispy critters. Rev 20:9 Faith is the victory and the battle is the Lord’s.

Jason - jesus says this. be ready when I come back. nothing about any second chances and that part about he that endureth to the end.
Eugene – This is talking of enduring through the tribulation and physically entering the millennium; our salvation is never based on anything less that believing on the Lord Jesus.

Jason - rev 3 so that wasn't for that church they don't have to overcome? why then did jesus tell them that if there was no tribulation for them?
Eugene - Overcoming was accomplished the moment we receive Christ as our Savior. 1 Jn 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. 1 Jn 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

The second part of your question is covered in Rev 3:10 as a reward for their faithfulness by being kept from the tribulation some of the church must enter according to Rev 7:14. . . These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Jason - and this. from the revalation 2
so its not a works salvation then? but it will be? that is why I don't buy futurism. it implies at times some weird idea of works, the torah was never about works. there was grace then. there was even the concept of being born again! the idea of peshac has that. jews rejoice at that feast in that they say isreal was birthed after that event! how can that be if isreal was in Egypt and in bondage!?
Eugene – Works for righteousness and a separated or sanctified walk are not the same thing. Man’s works were judged as filthy rags, and rthat akin to the rags used to wipe puss from the leper. A holy walk was like a sweet smelling savor to God and earned reward. A case for righteousness is exhibited with Moses; he believed not God. What was his reward for that? He was denied entrance into Canaan, and told to go up and die on Mount Nebo. Was his sin a sin unto death?

You say that Israel is not a land, but a people and I agree with that.

Works will never be the source of our deliverance or salvation. Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Enduring with Christ even unto death produces reward, hence: Rev 2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.

Rev 2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

 

[reba]

Jos 21:43 And the LORD gave unto Israel all the land which he sware to give unto their fathers; and they possessed it, and dwelt therein.
Jos 21:44 And the LORD gave them rest round about, according to all that he sware unto their fathers: and there stood not a man of all their enemies before them; the LORD delivered all their enemies into their hand.
Jos 21:45 There failed not ought of any good thing which the LORD had spoken unto the house of Israel; all came to pass.

 

[agua.]

Jos 21:43 And the LORD gave unto Israel all the land which he sware to give unto their fathers; and they possessed it, and dwelt therein.
Jos 21:44 And the LORD gave them rest round about, according to all that he sware unto their fathers: and there stood not a man of all their enemies before them; the LORD delivered all their enemies into their hand.
Jos 21:45 There failed not ought of any good thing which the LORD had spoken unto the house of Israel; all came to pass.

What about Abraham Rebs did he inherit everything promised before he died ?

 

[reba]

Abe was looking for this... pasted a couple the whole is a better read...

Heb 11:10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

Heb 11:16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.


Jos 21:45 There failed not ought of any good thing which the LORD had spoken unto the house of Israel; all came to pass.

Gen 15:18 In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:

 

[agua.]

Gal 3:16 KJV Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

 

[reba]

YUP do you think Jesus the seed is waiting for a piece of land?

 

[John S]

I

 

[John S]

I assume that there are rules against the derailing of threads.
This thread is NOT about whether there will be a Pre-Trib Rapture. This thread is about the effects of that Rapture.

In that vein, I have a question.
A woman is holding her infant. Suddenly, she vanishes. Does the infant go with her?
If it does, then at what age is the child responsible for its own religious beliefs - 6, 8, 10, 15, 18?

If you are the parent of a non-religious teenager, you should probably make plans to have someone take care of your child - a good for nothing relative - your atheist neighbor - your friend who you don't think will be Raptured.

Unlike what you may have seen on cartoons. pets don't have souls. When they die, they neither go to Heaven nor to Hell. They just die.
If you have a pet, you may want to arrange for its care. That might mean that you will have to give a copy of your house key to your neighbor.
I'm going to assume that you wouldn't want your pet to die of thirst. That would be cruel.

You may want to also think about a Rapture will. Do you want someone to have your things?

You may want to stop worrying about the theoretical and start worrying about the here and now.

 

[Deborah13]

I assume that there are rules against the derailing of threads.
This thread is NOT about whether there will be a Pre-Trib Rapture. This thread is about the effects of that Rapture.

In that vein, I have a question.
A woman is holding her infant. Suddenly, she vanishes. Does the infant go with her?
If it does, then at what age is the child responsible for its own religious beliefs - 6, 8, 10, 15, 18?

If you are the parent of a non-religious teenager, you should probably make plans to have someone take care of your child - a good for nothing relative - your atheist neighbor - your friend who you don't think will be Raptured.

I believe that any teenager that the Lord sees as being mature enough to be responsible for knowing the Lord is also mature enough to find help. In fact they are probably more street smart than Christian kids and have friends who are not Christian that will help. LOL, most of our government officials will be around to help them, too.

Unlike what you may have seen on cartoons. pets don't have souls. When they die, they neither go to Heaven nor to Hell. They just die.
If you have a pet, you may want to arrange for its care. That might mean that you will have to give a copy of your house key to your neighbor.
I'm going to assume that you wouldn't want your pet to die of thirst. That would be cruel.

Most pet owners have a vet clinic they use. Unless everyone there are believers, this is something that animal type people would think of and also all others such as animal shelters and rescue organizations. They'd be on top of this for sure. At least I know my oldest daughter would if she were left behind, she is a volunteer with a rescue. That would be one of her first thoughts. She'd be going door to door.

[/quote]You may want to also think about a Rapture will. Do you want someone to have your things?

You may want to stop worrying about the theoretical and start worrying about the here and now.[/QUOTE]

If all your family is saved anyone whoever wants it can have it, who cares, not me. If all your family is not saved, they have first rights anyway and whoever wants it can have it, I don't care.

 

[Gary]

In that vein, I have a question.
A woman is holding her infant. Suddenly, she vanishes. Does the infant go with her?
If it does, then at what age is the child responsible for its own religious beliefs - 6, 8, 10, 15, 18?

The Lord doesn't search the heart looking for religious beliefs. He searches the heart looking for purity.
.

 

[Eugene]

I assume that there are rules against the derailing of threads.
This thread is NOT about whether there will be a Pre-Trib Rapture. This thread is about the effects of that Rapture.

In that vein, I have a question.
A woman is holding her infant. Suddenly, she vanishes. Does the infant go with her?
If it does, then at what age is the child responsible for its own religious beliefs - 6, 8, 10, 15, 18?

John, you set forth a supposed scenario you don’t evidently believe, and as such I allow many bunny trials to reflect the thoughts of Christians that have believed and entertain different beliefs concerning our being gathered to Jesus.

With that in mind, you now say: “This thread is NOT about whether there will be a Pre-Trib Rapture. This thread is about the effects of that Rapture.

You then ask: In that vein, I have a question.
A woman is holding her infant. Suddenly, she vanishes. Does the infant go with her?”

I must ask if you even believe there will be a catching up to God at any time? And any answer would seemingly be no more than speculation. For instance, if the baby wet its diaper, would everything go on hold to allow the mother to change it.

You go on to planning for such an event. Would my puppy be cared for? Do you presently have a will expressing your desire for its care in a will in the event you die this very day, or will it run the streets of my city that will pick it up and kill the little mongrel; oh we call it euthanasia to appease those I imagine that didn't plan for such an event. In fact I haven’t seen any unleashed cats or dogs on our streets in probably a year; oh the humanity of it. Wait, the bunny, squirrel, and hawk population is thriving. :neutral

Genesis 18:25 Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?

Psalms 139:2 Thou knowest my downsitting and mine uprising, thou understandest my thought afar off.

Ecclesiastes 12:14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

 

[John S]

The Lord doesn't search the heart looking for religious beliefs. He searches the heart looking for purity.
.

So at what age is a child responsible for himself?

 

[John S]

John, you set forth a supposed scenario you don’t evidently believe, and as such I allow many bunny trials to reflect the thoughts of Christians that have believed and entertain different beliefs concerning our being gathered to Jesus.

With that in mind, you now say: “This thread is NOT about whether there will be a Pre-Trib Rapture. This thread is about the effects of that Rapture.

You then ask: In that vein, I have a question.
A woman is holding her infant. Suddenly, she vanishes. Does the infant go with her?”

I must ask if you even believe there will be a catching up to God at any time? And any answer would seemingly be no more than speculation. For instance, if the baby wet its diaper, would everything go on hold to allow the mother to change it.

You go on to planning for such an event. Would my puppy be cared for? Do you presently have a will expressing your desire for its care in a will in the event you die this very day, or will it run the streets of my city that will pick it up and kill the little mongrel; oh we call it euthanasia to appease those I imagine that didn't plan for such an event. In fact I haven’t seen any unleashed cats or dogs on our streets in probably a year; oh the humanity of it. Wait, the bunny, squirrel, and hawk population is thriving. :neutral

Genesis 18:25 Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?

Psalms 139:2 Thou knowest my downsitting and mine uprising, thou understandest my thought afar off.

Ecclesiastes 12:14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

1. I'm sure that there are hundreds of threads that debate the pros and cons of a Pre-Trib Rapture.
2. I guess I'm one of the rare people who is not obsessed with the idea of a Rapture. However, if there does happen to be one, it will be Post-Trib.
3. Is the infant Raptured with its mother? If it is, then at what age are children responsible for themselves?
4. You can choose to mock my questions, but they are legitimate.