Already Delivered

[netchaplain]

Many Christians are unaware that they are forgiven for all their sins! Otherwise Scripture could not state that we are already like Jesus (1Jo 4:17). Not in His sinlessness but in His guiltlessness! He knows you don’t want to sin, as Paul was delivered from desiring sin (Rom 7:15, 16, 19, 20, 21), he did not want to sin.

Such is the Christian, already delivered from all sin, because God knows we do not want to sin, but “please” Him (Phl 2:13). If God is not “working“ this “in you,” you aren’t saved yet—you have not been “born again” yet.

Once we are saved God starts “conforming” us to the “image” (walk) of the Lord Jesus (Rom 8:29). This means everyone saved will mature and grow in Christ in the way they live! When we sin we need not ask for forgiveness but instead thank Him for His permanent forgiveness (Heb 10:12). All His “forgiveness” was given at the point of rebirth (1Jn 1:9). He doesn’t have to keep forgiving over and over, it’s “once for all” (Heb 10:10).

There is never a time we aren’t forgiven. This of course concerns only not sinning “willfully” (Heb 10:26). If we intentionally sin it manifests we are unsaved, and do not want to give up the sin. God knows we want to “please Him,” and living without intentional sin is His goal for us. Living this way doesn’t gain salvation—it is a free gift of God (Eph 2:8). He will have only holy believers living for Him!

It of course is the most marvelous thing that we do not owe God for salvation. The Lord Jesus’ sacrifices makes us deserving and “worthy” (Col 1:10; 1Co 11:27; Rev 3:4; 16:6). Remember, Christians have everything the Lord Jesus has, for they are continually being “conformed to Christ’s “image.”

 

[for_his_glory]

We are all born with a nature to sin because of the fall of Adam and Eve who introduced sin into the world allowing to fall to Satan's temptation as they neglected the commands of God not to eat of that tree of good and evil, Genesis 3. All have sinned and fallen short of God's glory, Romans 3:23, that's a fact. But, to those who are of Christ need to get up every morning and crucify this flesh and walk in the Spirit so we do not fulfill the lust of the flesh. No one has to sin like it's some kind of command to do so as it's a freewill choice to fall to the temptations Satan loves to place before us.

Even a Spiritually born again child of God will mess up at times as we are still mortal living in a corruptible fleshly body where the sin nature dwells. Grace does not give us a license to sin, but when we do we have an intercessor (Christ Jesus) before the Father who makes intercession for us and forgives our sin when we repent of them. There will always be a struggle between the flesh and the Spirit and sometimes the flesh will win the battle, but never the war. A Spiritually born again indwelled with the Holy Spirit child of God should never willfully sin like we plan to do so, but yet we see ourselves messing up at times and having to admit to our downfall we need help from God to work on. Does that mean we are no longer God's own, no, it just means we are yet housed in this fleshly body, but yet without excuse.


Galatians 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

Romans 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. 2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Galatians 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Heb 10:26 For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

1Cor 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Cor 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Cor 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

 

[netchaplain]

We are all born with a nature to sin because of the fall of Adam and Eve who introduced sin into the world allowing to fall to Satan's temptation as they neglected the commands of God not to eat of that tree of good and evil, Genesis 3. All have sinned and fallen short of God's glory, Romans 3:23, that's a fact. But, to those who are of Christ need to get up every morning and crucify this flesh and walk in the Spirit so we do not fulfill the lust of the flesh. No one has to sin like it's some kind of command to do so as it's a freewill choice to fall to the temptations Satan loves to place before us.

Even a Spiritually born again child of God will mess up at times as we are still mortal living in a corruptible fleshly body where the sin nature dwells. Grace does not give us a license to sin, but when we do we have an intercessor (Christ Jesus) before the Father who makes intercession for us and forgives our sin when we repent of them. There will always be a struggle between the flesh and the Spirit and sometimes the flesh will win the battle, but never the war. A Spiritually born again indwelled with the Holy Spirit child of God should never willfully sin like we plan to do so, but yet we see ourselves messing up at times and having to admit to our downfall we need help from God to work on. Does that mean we are no longer God's own, no, it just means we are yet housed in this fleshly body, but yet without excuse.


Galatians 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

Romans 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. 2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Galatians 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Heb 10:26 For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

1Cor 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Cor 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Cor 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

Hi Sis, like what you said, and thanks for the reply! Concerning our body, it is not sinful, but it can be used sinfully because the sin source is our "old man," or sin nature; so the accountability isn't the body but the soul.

 

[Elijah7777]

Many Christians are unaware that they are forgiven for all their sins!

Many Christians are unaware that the Grace of God does a work in us to deliver us from Sin.

Philippians 2:13, says, "For it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill His good purpose." This verse highlights the idea that God is actively shaping believers, giving them both the desire and the ability to carry out His will.

It emphasizes that while people make choices and take action, it is ultimately God’s power working within them to align their hearts and actions with His divine plan. This aligns with the broader biblical theme that faith is not just about human effort but about God’s transformative work in a person’s life.

 

[netchaplain]

Many Christians are unaware that the Grace of God does a work in us to deliver us from Sin.

Philippians 2:13, says, "For it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill His good purpose." This verse highlights the idea that God is actively shaping believers, giving them both the desire and the ability to carry out His will.

It emphasizes that while people make choices and take action, it is ultimately God’s power working within them to align their hearts and actions with His divine plan. This aligns with the broader biblical theme that faith is not just about human effort but about God’s transformative work in a person’s life.

Hi Brother, and very well stated! It's my understanding that deliverance from sin involves primarily from using Phil 2:13 to cause every believer not to desire sin; though we know that still possessing the "old man" (sin nature) we will always have sin.

But God doesn't see us as sinners, because we don't want to sin. We are not part of whatever is sin, though we still commit sin (but not willfully - Heb 10:26). Christians "are not in the flesh," meaning they do not choose to sin (Ro 8:9); Those reborn are always guiltless, but never sinless.

 

[Elijah7777]

we will always have sin.

Wesley might ask: "What sin are we incapable of being delivered from?"

For me, I wonder why certain actions are considered sinful for humans but not for animals. God created us with the ability to populate the Earth, yet adultery is seen as one of the most serious sins. Why does our moral responsibility differ so much from the natural instincts of animals?

If we want to be free we can be free from sin. We just do not want to be set free if we are still in bondage.

 

[netchaplain]

Wesley might ask: "What sin are we incapable of being delivered from?"

For me, I wonder why certain actions are considered sinful for humans but not for animals. God created us with the ability to populate the Earth, yet adultery is seen as one of the most serious sins. Why does our moral responsibility differ so much from the natural instincts of animals?

If we want to be free we can be free from sin. We just do not want to be set free if we are still in bondage.

It's my understanding that the freedom from sin for the saint is the fact that God puts it in us to hate sin. There can be no other freedom, because He is still teaching us His holiness in contrast to our sin nature. But of course, we will be completely free from possessing the old man in the New Heaven.

 

[Elijah7777]

But of course, we will be completely free from possessing the old man in the New Heaven.

Because we do not take our body to heaven they bury it in the ground. From dust to dust ashes to ashes.

 

[hawkman]

Because we do not take our body to heaven they bury it in the ground. From dust to dust ashes to ashes.

Yes , surely the old man is gone but we will have a body like our Savior has . Even if our body turns to ashes and dust we will be renewed as Jesus is . Jesus's body did not remain on earth .

20For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:

21Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

 

[netchaplain]

Because we do not take our body to heaven they bury it in the ground. From dust to dust ashes to ashes.

Your close! God will use our old body (bones, etc.) and it will be changed into the new body (Rom 8:11; Phl 3:21).

 

[Elijah7777]

Your close! God will use our old body (bones, etc.) and it will be changed into the new body (Rom 8:11; Phl 3:21).

Your getting the rapture confused with the resurrection.

 

[Christ_empowered]

The concept of being saved from Satans power is not emphasized nearly as much as Jesus Christ as atonement for our sins. This is something I’ll need to look at more closely in scripture.

Thanks

 

[netchaplain]

Your getting the rapture confused with the resurrection.

The believers that passed and the believers that are still alive when the Lord Jesus returns will be raised together simultaneously (1Th 4:16, 17; 1Co 15:52). This is the resurrection, as being "changed" is same as dying then resurrecting.

 

[netchaplain]

The concept of being saved from Satans power is not emphasized nearly as much as Jesus Christ as atonement for our sins. This is something I’ll need to look at more closely in scripture.

Thanks

Hi, appreciate your comment! Isn't it through Christ's power that we are saved from Satan?

 

[Christ_empowered]

Yes! I just mean the preaching I hear…and thus isn’t a criticism it’s just an observation…

Focuses on Christ as redeemer and His crucifixion as atonement for our sins. Not a criticism just…

We really are saved by Christ from satans power. Death even loses its grip. I’m saying that that’s something that as a believer I’d like to study a bit on and ponder some, that’s all.

Thanks

 

[Christ_empowered]

Also this reminds me is Cs Lewis…

Somewhere there is an ideal form of You and Me. On earth I doubt many of us get all that close to it but in Christ it is who we really are…

 

[netchaplain]

Also this reminds me is Cs Lewis…

Somewhere there is an ideal form of You and Me. On earth I doubt many of us get all that close to it but in Christ it is who we really are…

Thanks for your explanation. Also I'm not sure what you mean by "an ideal form of You and Me." Thanks again!

 

[RandyK]

Many Christians are unaware that they are forgiven for all their sins! Otherwise Scripture could not state that we are already like Jesus (1Jo 4:17). Not in His sinlessness but in His guiltlessness! He knows you don’t want to sin, as Paul was delivered from desiring sin (Rom 7:15, 16, 19, 20, 21), he did not want to sin.

Such is the Christian, already delivered from all sin, because God knows we do not want to sin, but “please” Him (Phl 2:13). If God is not “working“ this “in you,” you aren’t saved yet—you have not been “born again” yet.

Once we are saved God starts “conforming” us to the “image” (walk) of the Lord Jesus (Rom 8:29). This means everyone saved will mature and grow in Christ in the way they live! When we sin we need not ask for forgiveness but instead thank Him for His permanent forgiveness (Heb 10:12). All His “forgiveness” was given at the point of rebirth (1Jn 1:9). He doesn’t have to keep forgiving over and over, it’s “once for all” (Heb 10:10).

There is never a time we aren’t forgiven. This of course concerns only not sinning “willfully” (Heb 10:26). If we intentionally sin it manifests we are unsaved, and do not want to give up the sin. God knows we want to “please Him,” and living without intentional sin is His goal for us. Living this way doesn’t gain salvation—it is a free gift of God (Eph 2:8). He will have only holy believers living for Him!

It of course is the most marvelous thing that we do not owe God for salvation. The Lord Jesus’ sacrifices makes us deserving and “worthy” (Col 1:10; 1Co 11:27; Rev 3:4; 16:6). Remember, Christians have everything the Lord Jesus has, for they are continually being “conformed to Christ’s “image.”

Hi brother--I forget which forum I saw you on before, but I've moved from one to another for various reasons. As to your theology above, I recognize it from reading your posts before. About the only thing I would question is probably a nuanced concern of mine that isn't really about what you were saying.

My concern is that when Christians sin, and we all sin, we will feel we're not Saved. Christians do, in fact, sin. They even *intentionally sin* such as when we are angry and become, for a time, unforgiving and less responsive to the Holy Spirit.

So I think life is full of corrections, full of "little sins," if you will? We let our love grow cold at times, in particular when things aren't going our way. That's when we need to apologize to God, and make it right so that we don't get under condemnation.

That being said, I like the gist of what you're saying. Saved people should be able to tell their Saved by the change in their spirit, by the impact Jesus' life within us makes when he completely takes control. A new person begins to grow up inside us that gravitates towards Jesus and pursues becoming more like him. Amen!

 

[for_his_glory]

Because we do not take our body to heaven they bury it in the ground. From dust to dust ashes to ashes.

2 Corinthians 5:6-8 is used by many to say when we die we immediately go to be with the Lord in heaven, but these verses do not mean that at all. If you go back to verse one and two in chapter 5 the tabernacle being spoken of is our fleshly body and when we are in the flesh we are separated from God because flesh and Spirit can not mix, Romans 8:6, 7. Sin separates us from God because God is a spirit and can only recognize his own children by what spirit is living in their hearts. We have to renew, rebirth – born again Gods Spirit within us in order to be called a child of God and see the kingdom of heaven, John 3:3-7. We now put off the old man (flesh) and put on the new man (Spirit), Colossians 3:1-17. We are renewed by the word of God and through the Holy Spirit teaching us of all things, John 14:26.

John 3:6 that which is born of the flesh is flesh and that which is born of the Spirit is Spirit. When we are in the flesh or at home in the body this is our natural carnal being. When we are in the Spirit allowing Gods Spirit to take over the flesh then we are in the presence of the Lord through the Holy Spirit that dwells in us.

God breathed life (breath/spirit) into us, Genesis 2:7, that made us a living soul and what goes back to God when this physical body dies (returns to the dust of the ground) is that very spirit of life God gave us, Ecclesiastics 12:7. Only those of faith under the old covenant (OT) and those of faith under the new covenant through Christ Jesus (NT) will God take that spirit back and reserve it until Christ returns. At that time we are raised with a new glorified body, 1Corintians 15:51-58; 1Thessalonians 4:13-18, and then we are given back that spirit of life to have everlasting life with the Father.

According to John 3:13 no one has ever ascended into heaven other than Christ. Scripture says we sleep in the ground until the coming of the Lord. Those whose names are written in the Lambs Book of Life will be raised to everlasting life with God and those who names are not found will face Gods Great White Throne Judgment and will be cast into the lake of fire, John 5:28, 29; Revelations 20:11-15.

 

[Elijah7777]

we immediately go to be with the Lord in heaven

I wonder about when Jesus was resurrected. He ate fish to show He has a phyiscal body. Even though we are told a time will come when there will be no more death. His physical resurrected body was taken up and the angels told the disciples in acts that Jesus will return the same way; He left. Also The prophecy in Zechariah 14:4 describes a dramatic event where the Mount of Olives splits in two when the Lord's feet touch the ground. The mountain will divide from east to west, creating a great valley, with half moving north and half moving south. Plate technotices shows us that this is exactly what is going to happen. The new Jerusalem will be 1500 by 1500 by 1500 miles the size of the arab contenent with air space and mineral rights.

If you have ever heard of entanglement, we can immediately be anywhere in the universe in what they call real time. Actually everywhere in time also. If we need healing for something in our past. I do not think God heals the memory, I think He goes back in time to the event to bring about restoration and healing.

There are lots of NDE on youtube. If they are in heaven in a instant or not, they are there pretty quick. Carl Sagon wrote a book and Jodie Foster made it into a move: "Contact". She traveled to remote planets in worm holes or something like that. I have wondered about something like optical fiber. There is no time at the speed of light so for us we would be there in a instant. But it is a one way trip. There can be no return.