Edward
2024 Supporter
That's interesting. How do we do that?
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Are you taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
Always Spirit-Filled Or A Leaky Vessel?
- Thread starter Golgotha
- Start date
That's interesting. How do we do that?
A topic for discussion. New thread?
eddif
2 Timothy 1:7 kjv
7. For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.
I suppose we:
Do no shrink back in fear
Release power
Walk in brotherly and tough love
Believe we can figure it out
eddif
Edward
2024 Supporter
Not only that, but now we have the mind of Christ. Or rather, our spirit man does because he is a new creature in Christ and God's Spirit bears witness with our spirit and if that be so, and I am in Christ and Christ is in me, then I'm walking with the mind of Christ with me.
Do not shrink back in fear. (Correct)
Release Power (Rivers of living water)
Walk in Brotherly love and tough love. (But leave the judging to the Lord)
Believe we can figure it out. (We don't have to understand it. We only have to pay attention, listen and obey)
One verse about that but there are more !
2 Timothy 1:6 Wherefore I put thee in remembrance that thou stir up the gift of God, which is in thee by the putting on of my hands.
Good Idea !
Mat 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
John the Baptist prophesied of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and fire (empowerment) before Jesus came to be baptized of John.
Luke 24:45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
Luke 24:46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
Luke 24:47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
Luke 24:48 And ye are witnesses of these things.
Luke 24:49 And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.
Here is the Baptism of Christ in vs. 49 that after Christ ascended up to heaven the Holy Spirit was brought down to indwell and give all power and authority unto man that all things are done in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit as there is nothing we can do apart from the empowerment of the Holy Spirit that works through us. On the day of Pentecost those disciples ofChrist were first Spiritually born again from above as they received the baptism of the Holy Spirit as water immersion had nothing to do with their salvation.
Acts 2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
Acts 2:2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
Acts 2:3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
The Holy Spirit came down on all of them in the upper room as 120 men and women received the indwelling of the Holy Spirit on the day of Penetcost as the evidence of tongues was uttered in the various languages of all the Jews from other countries that were in Jerusalem that day heard these people speak in their own native tongue.
Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Act 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
After Peter received the empowerment (fire) from the Holy Spirit he gave his first sermon that very day as his eyes were Spiritually opened to understand that of what Jesus had already taught them. Those who heard his sermon (hearing the word of God) were convicted in their heart and asked what they should do. Peter said: "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." That day there was added to the kingdom of God around 3000 people. Never once was the word water immersion mentioned.
John the Baptist prophesied of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and fire (empowerment) before Jesus came to be baptized of John.
Luke 24:45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
Luke 24:46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
Luke 24:47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
Luke 24:48 And ye are witnesses of these things.
Luke 24:49 And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.
Here is the Baptism of Christ in vs. 49 that after Christ ascended up to heaven the Holy Spirit was brought down to indwell and give all power and authority unto man that all things are done in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit as there is nothing we can do apart from the empowerment of the Holy Spirit that works through us. On the day of Pentecost those disciples ofChrist were first Spiritually born again from above as they received the baptism of the Holy Spirit as water immersion had nothing to do with their salvation.
Acts 2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
Acts 2:2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
Acts 2:3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
The Holy Spirit came down on all of them in the upper room as 120 men and women received the indwelling of the Holy Spirit on the day of Penetcost as the evidence of tongues was uttered in the various languages of all the Jews from other countries that were in Jerusalem that day heard these people speak in their own native tongue.
Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Act 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
After Peter received the empowerment (fire) from the Holy Spirit he gave his first sermon that very day as his eyes were Spiritually opened to understand that of what Jesus had already taught them. Those who heard his sermon (hearing the word of God) were convicted in their heart and asked what they should do. Peter said: "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." That day there was added to the kingdom of God around 3000 people. Never once was the word water immersion mentioned.
Is there something missing here ?
Ahh ! Thank you Hopeful !
Now I see .I will post the verses that we are missing out on in our brothers quote from 1Cor. 12 .
| 10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: |
| 11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will. |
| 12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. |
| 13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. |
| 14 For the body is not one member, but many. |
| 15 If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? |
| 16 And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? |
| 17 If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling? |
| 18 But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him. |
| 19 And if they were all one member, where were the body? |
That particular scrip' is a tad out of context to my response, but the principal bears repeating.
I was referring to a POV that the Spirit of God "cannot use tongues for His own purposes".
I don't feel that Paul was addressing such a topic.
Indeed.Is there something missing here ?
Ahh ! Thank you Hopeful !
I will post the verses that we are missing out on in our brothers quote from 1Cor. 12 .
10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: 11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will. 12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. 13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. 14 For the body is not one member, but many. 15 If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? 16 And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? 17 If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling? 18 But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him. 19 And if they were all one member, where were the body?
I was thinking of both tongues in personal prayer, tongues with an interpreter for the edification if the church, and tongues for access to foreigners.
Three uses of the gift from above.
God be glorified by each.
I still say we are always Spirit-filled since salvation as a testimony from God that we are saved at the calling of the gospel for why there is no more filling of the Spirit. Matthew 9:17
To preach for a continual filling of the Spirit is to deny what He has done at our salvation at the calling of the gospel for why we would never hunger nor thirst again to be filled after coming to & believing in Jesus Christ, John 6:35
To preach for a continual filling of the Spirit is to deny what He has done at our salvation at the calling of the gospel for why we would never hunger nor thirst again to be filled after coming to & believing in Jesus Christ, John 6:35
Got to love how God corrects us. With the approach that meets the individuals personal need. About the 20th of December I came down with a mild case of shingles. Took the edge off some of my arrogance. The pain ( which some pain is actually useful) helped during this discussion. The body cries out for relief from God. If you do not head for a pain medication bottle. Your prayer life picks up.
So I think I will ask a question:
How many people have gotten a new hint as to what private tongues can be for? I would love to jump right in, but given our track record I really would like anyone / those who suddenly got a revelation to private message me. I want to compare notes. I have toiled with spiritual gift knowledge for a very long time. Never have I even thought of this concept ( a concept others could have seen at the same time).
By the way the shingles and pain is almost fully gone (Praise God),
eddif
So I think I will ask a question:
How many people have gotten a new hint as to what private tongues can be for? I would love to jump right in, but given our track record I really would like anyone / those who suddenly got a revelation to private message me. I want to compare notes. I have toiled with spiritual gift knowledge for a very long time. Never have I even thought of this concept ( a concept others could have seen at the same time).
By the way the shingles and pain is almost fully gone (Praise God),
eddif
Yet many new believers & others that have been believers for a long time, wonder why they do not have tongues for private use. And when that false teaching about, "If you do not speak in tongues, you do not have the Holy Spirit, and therefore you are not saved", may bother a believer enough to doubt their salvation.
When they hear of an extra phenomenon about some believer "supposedly" experiencing that at their salvation moment or that same kind of phenomenon from others later in life as a saved believer when they got that tongue for "private use", how can they not wonder why the Holy Spirit does not make intercessions for them also?
So doubt is sown and the war to defend the faith is on for why some insists that tongues have ceased, but how can it, if anyone has been led by the Spirit to edify others by the scripture, hence the gift of prophesy?
So the real war goes to testing the spirits, that extra notable phenomenon, as not of Him by testing the tongues too; 1 John 4:1-6.
This is why that supernatural tongue which has been "assumed" for private use by believers, only because it does not come with interpretation, can be found the same kind of supernatural tongue in the world as gibberish nonsense.
1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. 22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.
If we are to prove all things and abstain from all appearances of evil, then that tongues for private use cannot be of Him at all. Believers that try to rationalize that discernment by saying Satan can copy cat God's tongues, are overlooking the fact that history reported that kind of supernatural tongue as gibberish nonsense long before Pentecost had come with the real God's gift of tongues for speaking unto other people in their native foreign tongue. That would mean God was copying Satan of his supernatural tongue, and so that cannot be.
Believers want to believe that extra notable phenomenon is of God because of that tongue for private use, thus failing to test the spirits and the tongues it brings.
So that is why there is a fight for keeping the faith in Jesus Christ against that extra calling of seeking another baptism with the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues, because there can be no other filling of the Spirit to be had so we can rest in Him as filled since salvation.
The irony is that the extra phenomenon can be felt again and so believers try to make sense of it and make assumptions about what that other notable phenomenon is about also were they lose self control ad chaos and confusion reign in the assembly.
So this extra supernatural filling does not stop there with this second calling of another baptism of the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues, and while those who use tongues for private use may judge the other fillings as not of God because God is not the author of confusion, other tongue speakers say it is of God and go after that too. There was a report that one tongue speaker tried to stop it from happening in his church, but he fell too while the one reporting it, was gloating over him for that.
Remember these verses?
Matthew 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Hence ecumenical in nature; and since there is such a thing as a Catholic Charismatic Church, as they speak in tongues for private use too, one should beware.
Also...
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
That means tongue speakers that do judge the other phenomenon of confusion as not of Him, should discern that those other phenomenon occurs by seeking another filling of the Holy Spirit; hence the same tree they sought tongues for private use by. For them to judge the other phenomenon as not of Him, they just judged their own by His words and without realizing it too.
Yet Jesus said that to help them realize that tongues for private use by that notable phenomenon cannot be of Him either. Better to pray normally to know what you had prayed for so we can give the Father thanks in Jesus's name for answers to prayers.
The bottom line is the good fight to keep our faith in Jesus Christ for all believers by recognizing we have been always Spirit filled since salvation at the calling of the gospel as a testimony from God that we are saved ( Mathew 9:17 ) This is why believers have been promised by Jesus that after coming to & believing in Him, they will never seek to be filled to satisfy any hunger nor thirst ever again. John 6:35
There can be no compromise nor partiality on this matter in keeping the faith.
Praise God your pain is almost fully gone !
I guess you could say that I got a "hint "
. I will pm you later today , I have much to do today .
Just sent you a PM. I had a mild case of shingles a few years ago and they are not fun. Thank God you are almost healed.
Edward
2024 Supporter
That's rather presumptuous Brother. Just because you never spoke in tongues doesn't mean it's not real.
I've spoke in tongues one time. I was like you, what's my problem, it must not be real. So I did feel like I was missing out so I prayed for it. And I prayed for it, and I prayed for it some more. Then I continued to pray for it.
Then one day when I was just praying in general and wasn't even thinking about tongues, my speech turned into tongues of an unknown language right then in the middle of my man prayer (lol). I immediately knew what was going on, so I shut my mouth and just listened while my mouth was still speaking tongues. When He was done, I finished my own prayer.
There was no parting of the RedSea or fanfare, no heavy presence of the Lord or lights or anything. Just my mouth speaking on it's own.
Now, send me a dollar and I'll send you book. Oh, that's not me.
I have a zillion testimonies of the Lord and supernatural events in my life too if you want to hear some. :wink
I believe in God's gift of tongues to speak unto the people in their language for why it will come with interpretation in the assembly unless understood by a foreigner out in the mission field.
I do not believe the real God's gift of tongues can be used for private use. I know that supernatural tongue is real and because it does not come with interpretation, is why believers assumed it is for private use, but it is not the real God's gift of tongues at all.
Yeah, well a neighbor across the street was telling that one day she was reading her Bible at the kitchen table when she felt the holy Spirit come over her and she spoke in tongues. She said that was when she was saved because she got it all at once.
Then I had asked her what was she reading that led her to believe in Jesus Christ. She did not know what I had meant. Then it don on her and she continued about how she consulted with her pastor because she had been a believer for most of her life ( she is a senior when I was talking to her that day ) The pastor pointed to a chapter in the Book of Acts which she did not say what chapter & so I assumed in Acts 2nd chapter when His disciples were told to wait for the promise from on high.
She went on to say that others shared similar testimonies of doing every day thing when what had happened to her, had happened to them. She rolled her eyes at that but never relayed why.
I tried to correct her in telling her that was not the Holy Spirit. And although she has heard of "if you do not speak in tongues, you do not have the Holy Spirit and therefore you are not saved" and does not agree with that, it would be hard to stop anyone from using her testimony in proving that false teaching.
Point is, she has been to a church teaching about feeling the phenomenon of the Holy Spirit at salvation for why she had changed her testimony to that moment.
You are around people that practice tongues for private use and refer to seeking that phenomenon to gain it too. It can happen when you are not seeking it.
That is why the apostle John says not to believe every spirit but test them and the tongues they bring in 1 John 4:1-6. Paul says to beware of those who preach another Jesus, another spirit, and another gospel to receive in 2 Corinthians 11:1-4. So how can you say you are abiding in Him if these scriptures shows you are not? Because it sure looks like you are just going along with it, wanting to believe it is of God like my neighbor did without testing the spirits at all.
And I do not want to hear that if it feels good, then it must be of God because that is not how we are to test the spirits when Paul waned some will depart from faith in giving heed to seducing spirits. 1 Timothy 4:1-2
Are there any where you tested the spirits by the scripture? Because you believed tongues can be for private use, is why I am dubious.
Thanks for sharing, but I can only hope in the Lord that He has helped you to see why I still disagree about tongues for private use.
Edward
2024 Supporter
Do you really think that an evil spirit can take me over and begin speaking in tongues through me while I am praying to the Almighty Lord and God?! I do not, but, point well taken to test the spirits.
Ok, how's this one? I'm sitting on my computer checking emails and suddenly the strongest presence of the Lord that I've ever felt before (or since!) came into my room. It was like, Jesus walked into the room. He didn't manifest so I couldn't see Him but I could feel the power and the love and then He spoke to me in an audible voice. He said pray for your Brother Michael he needs help...
I did not test that Spirit and ya know why? Because I recognized His voice. I knew who it was. I may not be able to remember any life before being earth born but I knew that voice, like scripture says, my sheep know my voice.
I did the stupid thing of course and questioned God, why, what happened is he ok? ...and that did not go over well. He literally changed His tone with me and took on that tone that parents use with their children sometimes the tone of doom. He said he needs help now pray for him. And I tell you, a change in tone was all it took to frighten my socks off and I said, yes Lord and immediately went into prayer for my Brother. Then the heavy presence left and I was left sitting still wondering what happened. I found out later he did need help and he did get help so it turned ok for all involved.
Now when I run across the story how Zechariah was struck dumb for questioning the messenger, in scripture, I thank God for not striking me dumb for being an idiot!
I've had a couple people suggest that I was wrong for not testing the Spirit...but how ludicrous is it to think that any evil spirit would come and say, pray for someone?
That was no evil spirit and I knew that voice!
If a saved Christian believes the lie that they can receive the Holy Spirit again after salvation, God will permit that strong delusion to occur by removing the restraining part of the Holy Spirit since the believer is suffering a thief to break thru.
Yeah. You should have tested that spirit. Here is why.
#1. Jesus Christ is in you and is with you always per 2 Corinthians 13:5 which is the same thing as saying 1 John 4:2 in testing the spirits in 1 John 4:1-4 as that spirit of antichrist outside of us in the world is not of God. 1 John 4:4 is how you can test the spirits of the antichrist as being felt outside of us as opposed to the Spirit of Christ in us. Jesus said we will know Him by Him dwelling in us John 14:17.
So #1 Feeling a spirit outside of us when our body is the Temple of the Holy Spirit per 1 Corinthians 6:19-20 is how that spirit that made you feel its presence was not God.
#2. Why ask you to pray when the Father already knows before you ask Him in prayer per Matthew 6:7-8. That reference is about not praying in vain repetition, and so do consider why He would ask you to pray as if He is not going to do anything until somebody prays for him? Think about that.
If Michael is a believer for how he is your brother, then he has the holy Spirit in him to make silent intercessions for him that Jesus, knowing the mind of the Spirit, will give to the Father ( Romans 8:26-27 ) with His own intercessions ( Hebrews7:25 ) and when the Father agrees, the Son answers the prayer. John 14:13-14
It is true that we are to pray for one another, but if God really told you to pray for your brother, Michael, that means He already knows about it, but for some reasons He needs your help to pray before He could do anything? Did you get that vibe?
Which means I discern that encounter as misleading you to expect that "God" will do more of that supernatural "visitation" in feeling "His Presence". Your eyes on God is now also to future visitations in feeling "His Presence" rather than only on the Son being in you and is with you always since salvation.
Do consider the cause and effect of that encounter. Do you expect to feel that spirit again the next time "he visits", believing that to be God? I wouldn't. He is in you.
The Temple in Jerusalem was how God's Presence used to be felt outside of believers, but that is why now, we can worship God any where because our bodies are the temples of the Holy Spirit so there is no coming to a place to get closer to God, for God is with us and dwells in us.
So how does any one come to God the Father in worship now from any where? By coming to the Son ( John 14:6 ) in honoring Him in worship ( John 5:22-23 ) is how anyone can come to the Father in honoring Him to His glory Philippians 2:5-13;
If you consider the full ramification of that event, for you believing that was His Presence that came into the room in asking you to pray for someone, then you just removed 1 John 4:1-4 from scripture and you cannot test the spirits now, the real indwelling Holy Ghost apart from the spirits of the antichrist in the world.
Again, if you expect the Holy Spirit to be felt outside of you, then there is no way you can test for the spirits of the antichrist without fearing you may sin against the Holy Ghost if the Holy Ghost can also be felt outside of us.
Which is why scripture puts Him in us for how we will know Him apart from the spirits of the antichrist that can be felt in the world by sinners as well.