Always Spirit-Filled Or A Leaky Vessel?

[Hopeful]

1 Corinthians 14:5 kjv
5. I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

So the lower gift is tongues. Not a bad way to talk to yourself and God.

1 Corinthians 14:39 kjv
39. Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.

Jude 1:20 kjv
20. But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,

Just a few verses that may help.
eddif

It seems odd to read "lower gift".
I consider any thing from God a major gift, but prophesy usually does more for the church than uninterpreted tongues.
Personally, I am elated, edified, and happy to know the Spirit of God within me prays to God on my behalf

 

[Hopeful]

But that is not tongues for private use for why God's gift of tongues can never be.

Is that a sentence?
Would you please reword it?

Tongues are a sign for unbelievers in hearing the wonderful works of God in their native tongue. This happened on the day of Pentecost as they understood what they were saying. But because some disciples were speaking in tongues in a specific language to a foreigner that would understand it, another foreigner standing nearby may not for why even the Jews of that area would think or accuse the disciples of being drunk.

That is one of its uses.
But not the only use.

 

[Golgotha]

Matthew 9:6 kjv
6. But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (then saith he to the sick of the palsy,) Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine house.

Is this the scripture to show that spiritual gifts are supportive of the salvation in Christ Jesus.

Tha reference in Matthew 9:6 was about Jesus healing that guy so people will know He has the power to forgive sins., because in context, that is what He said in healing that guy in verse 2 of Matthew 9:1-6 tat He forgave him of his sins and he was healed.

Kind of hard to see salvation. And I think signs are a weak way to promote belief.

Yet some do preach falsely that if you do not speak in tongues then you do not have the Holy Spirit and you are not saved. For these believers that use tongues for private use, it is amazing by such a move of the Spirit that He has not corrected them. So that in additions to scripture proves to me that it is not of Him at all. yet.

However in some cases it seems Jesus would go to a physical example to move folks on to salvation.

But the guy was not saved yet since Jesus had not died on the cross to pay the ransom for our sins and risen from the dead and had ascended to the Father yet for when the born again of the Spirit would come about for all those that come to & believe in Jesus Christ.

I do not think spiritual gifts are on as high a level as II once did.
But
Jesus used them. so if the gift of prophecy will show God is around then they are part and parcel with salvation. Spiritual gifts support believing in Jesus, and if Jesus said Receive power then I promote power.

eddif

Jesus can heal because He is God. Not really a spiritual gift.

Just as Jesus can have the winds & sea obey Him because He is God. Matthew 8:27 & Mark 4:41 & Luke 8:25 in comparison to O.T. below.

Psalm 89:8 O Lord God of hosts, who is a strong Lord like unto thee? or to thy faithfulness round about thee? 9 Thou rulest the raging of the sea: when the waves thereof arise, thou stillest them.

 

[Golgotha]

What you missed that I said , " In the believer " .

It is the same manifestation of the Holy Ghost in the believer that allows him to speak in tongues no matter where he is !

N/A because tongues are not for private use.

Verse 14 , " For if I pray in an unknown tongue " this is Paul talking about praying as the Holy Ghost gives the utterance .
If it is not through the Holy Ghost that Paul is praying , what are you trying to say here ?
That it is demonic ? It plainly says "unknown tongue " .

While the Holy Spirit is manifesting God's gift of tongues thru Paul to speak unto the people, Paul is praying that another will interpret so he can understand it & be fruitful to himself. That is what He is telling others to do when the Holy Spirit is manifesting tongues thru them, to pray that somebody else will interpret so they can understand it and be fruitful to themselves too.

When it comes as gibberish nonsense, believers just go with it and assume it is for private use which proves it is not God's gift of tongues. Either they are faking it or they gained a supernatural tongue by that apostate calling of seeking another baptism with the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues. One way or another, God's gift of tongues were never meant for private use, brother, and so it is not of Him.

Again you are twisting the verse . It does NOT say fruitless to himself , but what does it say ? It says in verse 14 " my understanding is unfruitful " , now read about the FRUITFUL part of praying in tongues in this next verse .
1 Corinthians 14:4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.
Edify , to build up to empower one for greater service to God !

How can an unknown tongue edified himself when in context of that chapter, Paul is praying for somebody else to interpret so he can understand it and be fruitful to himself?

If you read 1 Corinthians 14:1-4 Paul is telling believers to seek the gift of prophesy over all spiritual gift in verse 1. Do you see that? If a reader ask why, Paul goes on to compare tongues against prophesy to prove tongues is not a stand alone gift for it needs interpretation as the chapter continues on from verse 4. By comparing the gift of tongues against prophesy, is to show why prophesy is the better gift, but modern day tongue speakers seem to have that whole message backwards because all we see is believers today hyping tongues because of all the supposed benefit for private use in the assembly and yet Paul was exhorting the gift of prophesy to seek after instead.

If you saw this brother speak in tongues in church and you saw that it was a real gift of tongues and then days later you visited him at home . You knocked on his door and you are greeted by his wife , his wife tells you your friend is in his study with the door shut but the wife tells you to open the door and go on in the study .
When you open the door you find your friend praying in tongues .

You know your friend has the real gift of tongues . Do you now tell him he is wrong to pray in tongues ?

I'd remind him what the apostle John warned us to do and that is to test the spirits and the tongues they bring in 1 John 4:1-6 because that tongue he is doing right then is not the real God's gift of tongues for why it is not coming with interpretation. There are other spirits in the world and the tongues they bring is gibberish nonsense for why we are to always test the spirits & the tongues they bring.

God's gift of tongues are for speaking unto the people and not for private use.

There are those who "pray in tongues" claiming the Holy Spirit is praying but John 16:13 testifies that HE cannot speak for Himself let alone utter His own prayers.

Romans 8:26-27 in the KJV & a few other modern Bibles, testifies that the Holy Spirit cannot even utter His own groanings in keeping the truth in His words in aligning with John 16:13 in those Bibles. Not all modern Bibles align Romans 8:26-27 with John 16:13 in that Bible. That is why it is important to have a Bible that aligns the truth in His words without having any scripture that opposes other scripture for then doubt is sown and cannot be used to discern good & evil by the meat of His words.

It will take a miracle from God to intervene ad recover some from this snare of the devil. And it is a snare of the devil when you consider what the will of God is and that is for us to pray & give thanks to the Father in Jesus's name for known answers to prayers. Ephesians 5:20 & Colossians 1:3 & Colossians 1:12 & Colossians 3:17

When you compare God's will for us to pray & give thanks to the Father, then you may see what the will of the devil is that is a snare in keeping us from or interrupting our prayer time with that gibberish nonsense.

1 Thessalonians 5:17 Pray without ceasing. 18 In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness...

24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, 25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; 26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

I believe verse 16 is about tongues for private use.

I recalled someone sharing how he was about to pray and the "Holy Spirit" interrupted him and so he just went with it.

To me, it is God's will for him to pray normally, and it was the devil that stopped him from doing God's will to doing his will so the brother did not know wat he had prayed for as he was stopped from asking it in normal prayer. If he did not ask for anything in normal prayer, he cannot get an answer to prayer in order for him to give the Father thanks in Jesus's name for answers to prayers.

I call that spirit a thief for interrupting a brother to pray in gibberish tongues. And the real indwelling Holy Spirit is not a thief.

 

[Golgotha]

Is that a sentence?
Would you please reword it?

God's gift of tongues are never for private use.

That is one of its uses.
But not the only use.

Tongues for private use has "supposed" many benefits; #1 Holy Spirit is praying; #2 Self-edification #3. Worship #4 Giving thanks and etc .. and yet how can a believer know what that tongue for private use is for? How can that not make God the author of confusion? Therefore God's gift of tongues are not for private use.

Those who use tongues for private use are not having the real God's gift of tongues.

 

[Golgotha]

Golgotha, I am unfortunately too tied up to stay with our conversations lately, but while there are many things I could say about this entire post, let me at least encourage you with something: I both speak in tongues and prophesy, but neither of those things make my salvation secure. My salvation is tied to my continued relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ, and staying in His word and in fellowship with Him; the spiritual gifts are merely extensions of that. So don't let the issue of outpourings or operating in spiritual gifts ever make you feel that you are unsaved, or not on your way to Heaven. That would never be anything I or any Charismatic I know would ever argue.

God bless, and Lord willing we will talk again.
Your friend,
Hidden In Him

I thank you for sharing that even though that is only a minor yet important side topic in regards to my concern for the body of Christ that falsely assumed the extra "filling" phenomenon and that tongue it brings for private use is of God when it is not.

The lack of interpretation is why believers "assume" it is for private use when it is not God's gift of tongues at all. Neither is that extra phenomenon for how they got that kind of tongues for which believers seem to hype it as another calling to seek after; which is another baptism with the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues, but that is an apostate calling.

 

[Hopeful]

If that brother speak in tongues and another interpret or a foreigner understood him, I would believe that brother has the real God's gift of tongues.

But when a brother insists that tongues can also be for private use, he is still my brother, but that supernatural tongue as gained by another filling of the Holy Spirit, is not of Him at all and that includes that other apostate calling of seeking another baptism with the holy Ghost with evidence of tongues as not of Him either for how he had gained that tongue for private use & why that tongue never comes with interpretation.

Indeed, some believe interpretating tongues is by getting the gist or feel of what is being said in that gibberish nonsense as Joyce Meyers has testified but they are not really interpreting that tongue at all for why it is just gibberish nonsense and not any language of men at all.

Since the purpose of the gifts of the spirit & the manifestations of them is to profit the body of Christ for why tongues will come with interpretation in the assembly to profit the body withal, then tongues can never be for private use. ( and they have by citing all the benefits for private use that one wonders why they go to the assembly at all as if they need no other body when they can do all those things and yet without interpretation to never understand what is going on with that tongue ? )

1 Corinthians 12:4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. 6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all. 7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal....

19 And if they were all one member, where were the body? 20 But now are they many members, yet but one body. 21 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.

The verses above proves why tongues can never be for private use in the assembly or individually anywhere when that tongue speaker needs someone to interpret that tongue so he can understand it for that tongue to be fruitful to himself.

So that is why believers re not to believe every spirit but test them by knowing He is in us so that spirit that comes over us later after salvation, is not the Holy Spirit ( 1 John 4:1-4 ) for why they are even to test the tongues as well because the world's supernatural tongue is just gibberish nonsense. ( 1 John 4:5-6 & Isaiah 8:19 )

God's gift of tongues are never for private use.
Tongues for private use has "supposed" many benefits; #1 Holy Spirit is praying; #2 Self-edification #3. Worship #4 Giving thanks and etc .. and yet how can a believer know what that tongue for private use is for? How can that not make God the author of confusion? Therefore God's gift of tongues are not for private use.
Those who use tongues for private use are not having the real God's gift of tongues.

It is written..."Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God." (Rom 8:26-27)
I will abide by Paul's words, and urge you to reconsider your POV.

 

[eddif]

It seems odd to read "lower gift".
I consider any thing from God a major gift, but prophesy usually does more for the church than uninterpreted tongues.
Personally, I am elated, edified, and happy to know the Spirit of God within me prays to God on my behalf

Good post. It triggered the following.

1 Corinthians 12:23 kjv
23. And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness.
24. For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked:

The Father designed the diversity of Gifts
The Son oversees the gifts
The Holy Spirt distributes the gifts

God has lowered the mountains and raised the valleys.

eddif

 

[eddif]

Those who use tongues for private use are not having the real God's gift of tongues.

Deuteronomy 25:4 kjv
4. Thou shalt not muzzle the ox when he treadeth out the corn.

Boring low level job treading out the corn. But, who gets the treat? The ox.

So the speaker has the sweet word of God in his mouth.
Not:
That sorry self centered ox should be doing the corn as a service for others,
And not;
Getting any personal benefit from his job.

The Law says feed the ox, and the New Testament says pay the preacher.

eddif

 

[Golgotha]

I will abide by Paul's words, and urge you to reconsider your POV.

It is written..."Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

No sound at all. He cannot even utter His groanings.

27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God." (Rom 8:26-27)

The "he" in that verse 27 is Jesus as "he" is the One that searches our hearts per Hebrews 4:12-16 and so it is that "he" that knows the mind of the Spirit to give the Spirit's silent intercessions to the Father. That is why "itself" was used as Jesus knowing the mind of the Holy Spirit is how the Spirit's unuttered intercessions are known to God the Father.

This is why the Father knows before we ask anything in prayer Matthew 6:7-8 So why would the holy Spirit have need to say anything out loud at all? None.

So Romans 8:26-27 is for every believer for how the holy Spirit makes silent intercessions for us and how Jesus knows the mind of the Spirit is how His intercessions are known to the Father.

Thank you for sharing, but that is how I read those verses plainly as it is written.

 

[Golgotha]

Good post. It triggered the following.

1 Corinthians 12:23 kjv
23. And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness.
24. For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked:

The Father designed the diversity of Gifts
The Son oversees the gifts
The Holy Spirt distributes the gifts

God has lowered the mountains and raised the valleys.

eddif

Don't forget this reference for why tongues cannot be for private use.

1 Corinthians 12:9 And if they were all one member, where were the body? 20 But now are they many members, yet but one body. 21 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.

And why no other baptism of the Holy Ghost is needed for any gifts of the Spirit to come.

1 Corinthians 12:4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. 6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all. 7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; 9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; 10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: 11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. 13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. 14 For the body is not one member, but many.

 

[Golgotha]

Deuteronomy 25:4 kjv
4. Thou shalt not muzzle the ox when he treadeth out the corn.

Boring low level job treading out the corn. But, who gets the treat? The ox.

So the speaker has the sweet word of God in his mouth.
Not:
That sorry self centered ox should be doing the corn as a service for others,
And not;
Getting any personal benefit from his job.

The Law says feed the ox, and the New Testament says pay the preacher.

eddif

Tongues for private use and coming with no interpretation would make God as muzzling that ox.

Therefore we can conclude that God is not doing that because that is not the real God's gift of tongues that is being used for private use.

 

[eddif]

Tongues for private use and coming with no interpretation would make God as muzzling that ox.

Therefore we can conclude that God is not doing that because that is not the real God's gift of tongues that is being used for private use.

Therefore we can conclude that God is not doing that because that is not the real God's gift of tongues that is being used for private use.

Now I know you might not agree with this rewording of your statement, but could you read it and consider it?

Therefore we can conclude that private use of tongues is not doing the best use of God's gift of tongues, but still allows tongues being used for private use.

That would still allow it to be in Gods will,

You do have some insight into scripture.

However the moment we say never (about most anything), we sometimes find an exception to the rule. Usually is sometimes ok to say.

Under the OT law you were not to touch a dead body. But preparation for burial was allowed (?).

Just give it a thought. I am not always totally correct. I can be corrected.

eddif

 

[Golgotha]

Therefore we can conclude that God is not doing that because that is not the real God's gift of tongues that is being used for private use.

Now I know you might not agree with this rewording of your statement, but could you read it and consider it?

Therefore we can conclude that private use of tongues is not doing the best use of God's gift of tongues, but still allows tongues being used for private use.

That would still allow it to be in Gods will,

You do have some insight into scripture.

However the moment we say never (about most anything), we sometimes find an exception to the rule. Usually is sometimes ok to say.

Under the OT law you were not to touch a dead body. But preparation for burial was allowed (?).

Just give it a thought. I am not always totally correct. I can be corrected.

eddif

We have to say never because the Holy Spirit cannot use tongues for His own purposes John 16:13 as in praying for others out loud.

 

[hawkman]

God's gift of tongues are never for private use.

Tongues for private use has "supposed" many benefits; #1 Holy Spirit is praying; #2 Self-edification #3. Worship #4 Giving thanks and etc .. and yet how can a believer know what that tongue for private use is for? How can that not make God the author of confusion? Therefore God's gift of tongues are not for private use.

Those who use tongues for private use are not having the real God's gift of tongues.

I pray you will go back an read all that the the five? other members and myself have wrote in response to your disbelief of private prayer tongues . You need to read ALL of the complete books in the bible that contain info on the Holy Ghost and tongues . I will pray for you to receive the gift of tongues . Thanks for your efforts brother Golgotha .

 

[Hopeful]

It is written..."Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

No sound at all. He cannot even utter His groanings.

27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God." (Rom 8:26-27)

The "he" in that verse 27 is Jesus as "he" is the One that searches our hearts per Hebrews 4:12-16 and so it is that "he" that knows the mind of the Spirit to give the Spirit's silent intercessions to the Father. That is why "itself" was used as Jesus knowing the mind of the Holy Spirit is how the Spirit's unuttered intercessions are known to God the Father.

This is why the Father knows before we ask anything in prayer Matthew 6:7-8 So why would the holy Spirit have need to say anything out loud at all? None.

So Romans 8:26-27 is for every believer for how the holy Spirit makes silent intercessions for us and how Jesus knows the mind of the Spirit is how His intercessions are known to the Father.

Thank you for sharing, but that is how I read those verses plainly as it is written.

As I am unable to repeat what the Spirit says through me, I regard it as unutterable.

 

[Hopeful]

Don't forget this reference for why tongues cannot be for private use.

1 Corinthians 12:9 And if they were all one member, where were the body? 20 But now are they many members, yet but one body. 21 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.

And why no other baptism of the Holy Ghost is needed for any gifts of the Spirit to come.

1 Corinthians 12:4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. 6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all. 7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; 9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; 10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: 11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. 13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. 14 For the body is not one member, but many.

I found verse 10 interesting..."diverse kinds of tongues".
More than one kind of tongues, it seems.

 

[Hopeful]

We have to say never because the Holy Spirit cannot use tongues for His own purposes John 16:13 as in praying for others out loud.

"The Holy Spirt cannot..."
Interesting take on any manifestation of God.

 

[eddif]

"The Holy Spirt cannot..."
Interesting take on any manifestation of God.

It can if…

2 Timothy 1:6 kjv
6. Wherefore I put thee in remembrance that thou stir up the gift of God, which is in thee by the putting on of my hands.

If the gift is in us we are to stir it up

Just opposite of a virus. If a virus becomes active we suppress it.

If the quickening Spirit becomes dormant we stir it up.

If Covid had not hit I would probably understood as much.

eddif

 

[eddif]

Exodus 1:12 kjv
12. But the more they afflicted them, the more they multiplied and grew. And they were grieved because of the children of Israel.

Then the concept of people with spiritual gifts grows?
I might be starting to see more and more value in this thread.

Mississippi redneck.
eddif