Always Spirit-Filled Or A Leaky Vessel?

[Hopeful]

We are not in agreement.

May I suggest that in this discussion, you trust the Lord at that throne of grace to correct you in any thing you may say that is not in aligning with His words?
I trust Him to do the same but as it is, I cannot see how you can say Jesus Christ is your Savior for why He is the Good News if you are not saved yet.
I believe I am saved and with Him in us and with me always as saved, I look to Him to help me lay aside every weight & sin daily so I can follow Him.
The new reality is you are saved since you had first believed in Him at the calling of the gospel or else you are denying Him as your Savior.
Listen to the truth in the words of this song below for why Christ in you is why you are saved,

So you do think thieves are going to heaven?
It is written..."Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God." (1 Cor 6:9-10)

 

[Golgotha]

So you do think thieves are going to heaven?
It is written..."Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God." (1 Cor 6:9-10)

What happened to the thief on the cross that believed in Him? Jesus said that he would be with Him that day in Paradise aka Abraham's bosom located under the earth.

Now that Paradise is in Heaven after His ascension, the spirit of that thief is with Him awaiting His resurrection at the pre great tribulation rapture event to live as that vessel unto honor in His House to attend the Marriage Supper held in Heaven with other O.T. saints and the N.T. saints that were abiding in Him as His disciples. Luke 13:24-30.

 

[hawkman]

Best describe your church by her practice.

Do they talk about receiving the Holy Spirit by a sign of tongues or by evidence of tongues?

In speaking with other tongues as the Spirit gives utterance and that it is the initial evidence of the baptism of the Holy Ghost.

Here is a link .

Declaration of Faith

Did they practice using tongues for private use as in prayer before you went up there for your salvation?

No ! I have never in any Church of God seen this practice .

I just wondered why you felt you need to go to the altar to pray for your salvation when believing in Jesus Christ is how you are saved.

This was @1984 . The Word was preached and an altar call was made if you had any need to come down to the altar and pray .

The company you keep have a lot to do with influence and mental disposition.

So sure I had seen messages in tongues and interpretations of those messages while I had been going to church . But I had never even given it a thought that I would ever speak in tongues . " The company you keep " , yes I know something about that too , I was heavy into music and the rock&roll lifestyle , life on the road , for about 6 years before I was born again

No. I never had it even though Don Reed from Crossing Path's Ministry told me that I had to babble on purpose and then that gift of tongue will come. After a while it was just becoming a habit and the Lord helped me see that and so I had stopped, because that gift of tongue was not coming that way.

Oh wow ! That cuts me to the quick that they were trying to deceive you in such a fashion . Praise God you understood what was happening .

I have seen the Lord operate other gifts like discerning of spirits and the gift of knowledge, to share with others for discernment & edification; hence the gift of prophesy too, which of course I am nothing in His ministry as He has to cause the increase for others to receive the truth in His words.

Don't sell yourself short !

None of those gifts required a filling of the Holy Spirit to get them. It's a manifestation of the Spirit from within us for why we are to seek the gift of prophesy over all spiritual gift to profit he body of Christ.

As it is in growing up, I find the Lord ministering to me more than my ministering to others even though I share what He has led me to share to others but to no avail.

Our education never ends .

They mostly still believe commitment and promises are necessary and that they can pray to the Father to send for the Holy Spirit to come into the church to reach the lost but the Holy Spirit is in us to reach the lost whereas it is the Father that draws them unto the Son ( John 6:44 ) to reveal the Son to sinners, even unto babes, so they can believe and be saved ( Matthew 11:25-27 )..

Can the Holy Ghost make his presence felt among a gathered group of believers ? Yes he can , I have felt that more than once .

So I believe you were saved the moment you believed in Jesus Christ before that moment you went up to that altar to pray for your salvation.

The process was started when I stood up and took that first step toward the aisle and down to the front of the church and the altar . I did not ask for Jesus to be my savior until I was kneeling at the altar .

Did you go up there praying for a sign that you are saved? Just not clear as to why you went to the altar to pray for salvation or to seek it when anyone calling on the name of the Lord shall be saved, and even less whenever anyone comes to & believe in Jesus Christ are saved.

No I did not ask for a sign , never even crossed my mind .
Opinion here , I think it is good that a person has to get out of the pew and walk to the altar to confess they are a sinner and want Jesus as their savior . All the other believers there in the church will be praying for you as you are being born again , strength in numbers .

What were your expectations for going up to the altar to pray for salvation? What did the church led you before hand, if any, in having those expectations?

That my sins would be forgiven and my burdens lifted . And that is what happened Praise God !

Have you ever seen others go up to that altar before that day when you did? Just wondering if like Don Reed did to me, the leaders and the church influenced your mindset for what you were expecting when going up to that altar for your salvation?

Yes , I had seen others go to the altar and pray . I understood the basic concept of being born again but not much more . Was the Holy Spirit drawing me to be born again ? YES !

 

[eddif]

Well ok this is where I will start . At the beginning for me at least .

This my story of speaking in tongues . When I went to the alter at my local church to pray for my salvation after I prayed and accepted Jesus as my savior I stood there at the altar and words were wanting to come out of my mouth that were NOT my words . I was shocked and thought what is happening to me and I did not let The Holy Spirit have the utterance . Over the next few weeks I came to understand that The Holy Spirit was wanting to speak through me when I was at the altar . At a later church service anyone with a need went to the altar for prayer and I went and was prayed for and began speaking in tongues . No training , no teaching it just flowed . Now have I ever gave a message out in tongues in a church service , no I have not . I do pray in tongues when I am alone most of the time . Sometimes a melody come with the words and I sing my prayer , this is not very often but so great when it does happen . Are the tongues I pray in "modern" no not at all . What language is the tongues I pray in ? Well there are two names I have heard when I pray in tongues , Eli and Allah .

Golgotha , do you operate in the Gift of tongues ?

Altar with an "a" fixed it .1 Corinthians 14:26 kjv

I was in private when I first spoke in tongues.
I am still seeking what to say about the title of the thread.

Right now I am getting a lesson from sewing machines, vs knitting. Seems Jesus had a seamless garment and not a piece sewn to piece garment. We are called to unity of thought.

Here is a passage that lays out the order / rules for tongues.

Where tongues start
26. How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.

Rules for speaking in tongues
27. If any man speak in an unknowntongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.

Then go private if no one intreptrets
28. But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.

Tongues start in a worship service. Are tested. Failing interpretation they go private. Then prayers that you may interpret begin. After interpretation the information may become part of your knowledge base.

Can tongues go wrong? Yes.
Does that make a rule of no tongues? No.

I suggest a reading of the surrounding verses.

I may have started out in tongues, but it has gone more toward what is the message.

Good post hawkman

Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[Golgotha]

In speaking with other tongues as the Spirit gives utterance and that it is the initial evidence of the baptism of the Holy Ghost.

Here is a link .

Declaration of Faith

Thanks for sharing the link to your church's statement of faith.

Explain these 2 statements for me from their statement of faith.

"In sanctification subsequent to the new birth, through faith in the blood of Christ; through the Word, and by the Holy Ghost."

"In speaking with other tongues as the Spirit gives utterance and that it is the initial evidence of the baptism of the Holy Ghost."

Are they saying these 2 events happen at their salvation moment?

Not sure if they are saying that a believer has to speak in tongues to know they had received the baptism of the Holy Spirit and got saved. Is that what they are saying?

 

[Golgotha]

No ! I have never in any Church of God seen this practice .

Have you attended other Church of God before you went forward in that one? Or do you mean that you have never seen that in any Church of God after you got saved in that church?

Anyway by that church's Statement of Faith, they certainly seem to preach it at some point for anyone to "expect" that to happen at their salvation.

"In speaking with other tongues as the Spirit gives utterance and that it is the initial evidence of the baptism of the Holy Ghost."

Do you recall if you ever heard or read that before going up to the altar?

I do wonder if you may not have heard comments or brief testimonies to that effect before you had gone up there to the altar, hoping for that to happen supernaturally at your salvation moment just so you can know that you had received that baptism of the Holy Ghost in according to the church's statement of faith.

 

[Golgotha]

This was @1984 . The Word was preached and an altar call was made if you had any need to come down to the altar and pray .

So sure I had seen messages in tongues and interpretations of those messages while I had been going to church . But I had never even given it a thought that I would ever speak in tongues . " The company you keep " , yes I know something about that too , I was heavy into music and the rock&roll lifestyle , life on the road , for about 6 years before I was born again

Oh. Well, that answers my questions to my second post to you from your initial reply.

Responding to your initial post in reading but keeping my replies short, but I can see how that can have influence on you in your expectations in going up there to that altar.

I did read an account somewhere online, maybe in another Christian forum, not sure, but there was a report about a church that had thought they had God's gift of tongues with interpretation for sure that they had invited a linguist to record the event and translate the many different tongues manifested as they were interpreted by members of the church.

Only thing was, the linguist found them all to be gibberish nonsense and not any foreign language at all. So I wondered what were the interpreters doing?

Then I came across at another time about Joyce Meyers in how she would interpret tongues by getting the gist or feel of what was being said in that tongue.

Then I wonder if that was how that other church was actually attempting to do in interpreting that tongue. I can see how they were sincere in trying to interpret tongues in that church in that way, but they never had the actual God's gift of tongues that was being spoken in foreign languages as it was all gibberish nonsense and they never had the gift of interpreting those tongues as they were winging it.

I believe these believers were sincere and all that for why they had hired a linguist to record the event.

Then there was that testimony from a Christian part of Delta Public Forums where one woman claimed she can speak in tongues and interpret that tongue too, but 1 Corinthians 12:4-12 that the body has many members for why the Holy Spirit would manifest the gift of interpretation to another.

It almost sound like the woman has no need of another member of the body to interpret that foreign tongue which goes against 1 Corinthians 12:19-21. ( Which is another reason why tongues cannot be for private use )

So she had come across to me as purposefully faking it as she had to know that foreign language she was speaking, but then again, later on, in coming across that other report about that church, she may had spoken supernaturally in gibberish nonsense but made a guess as to what that language was while getting the gist of what was being spoken by that tongue. But I think it had to be the former as she was so sure... quoting "perfect Arabic" as if she knew it was Arabic that she spoke it perfectly in that supposed tongue as manifested by the Holy Ghost.

Anyway I believe the Bible in that the interpretation has to come from another by the Holy Spirit and so that woman was a faker and that church was just misled.

I know I was in a group that tried to teach me to fake tongues and the actual gift of tongue would come, which it did not, so I can understand how believers would fake tongues to fit in too.

More replies to come, Lord be willing, to your initial post to me.

 

[eddif]

"In sanctification subsequent to the new birth, through faith in the blood of Christ; through the Word, and by the Holy Ghost."

"In speaking with other tongues as the Spirit gives utterance and that it is the initial evidence of the baptism of the Holy Ghost."

Sounds like John Wesley

Is there a second blessing subsequent to salvation? | GotQuestions.org

Is there a second blessing subsequent to salvation? Is the baptism of the Spirit the second blessing? Is sinless perfection the second blessing?

www.gotquestions.org

Now you come to a problem. What is the great commission speaking of? Is the power of Pentecost
Spiritual Gifts for sons and daughters?

And really I should not post this from a human perspective.
For _His _Glory is against sinless perfection ( which I agree with her), but I do think interpreted tongues after salvation is biblical. So now do I oppose 80% of the Christian faith? I just refuse to fight that war. Not everyone speaks in tongues, but subsequent to salvation (?) people are empowered by / through certain spiritual gifts.
Have I shot myself in the foot? Maybe, but it would do me no good to try and hide the link. This site does try and honestly work through issues.

Mississippi Redneck
eddif

 

[Golgotha]

Don't sell yourself short !

I only say that because of what Paul said here below.

1 Corinthians 3:5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? 6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. 7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

Our education never ends .

True, since we prophesy in part and know in part until He brings us Home in seeing Him face to face. Jesus even said that He prunes the fruitful disciples so they can bear more fruit in John 15:1-2.

Can the Holy Ghost make his presence felt among a gathered group of believers ? Yes he can , I have felt that more than once .

Have you felt that before you went up to the altar or just afterwards?

I have to give pause about feeling the Holy Spirit in the worship place because He has no need to be felt in the worship place when He dwells in you by faith as your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit. You cannot get any closer to Him than that.

1 Corinthians 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

I apply the warning from 1 John 4:1-6 for why that has to be the spirit of the antichrist which is in the world to be felt in the world to take the eyes of believers off of the Son & thus the Father in worship which the real indwelling Holy Ghost would never do that but keep the spotlight on the Son in coming to God the Father in worship.

1 John 4:1Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

Verse 2 above in regards to "is come" is referring to where the Spirit of Christ dwells now as presently in believers. It is the same as what Paul says below.

2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

That is the correct rightly dividing of His words because of what follows afterwards.

3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

So that is how we test the spirits, knowing Jesus Christ is in us so when we feel a spirit outside of us or coming over us later in life as a saved believer, we can know that was not the Holy Spirit.

5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.

6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

Verses 5 & 6 testify to the supernatural tongues that are in the world as they all speak the same thing as gibberish nonsense. So not only spirits are to be tested but by the kind of tongues they bring for why the real God's gift of tongues can never be for private use because how can sinners know they have departed from those spirits and the kind of tongues they bring or how can the church know that these sinners have truly repented or as believers, fallen back into that practice and those spirits?

Hopefully, you can see my Biblical concerns here.

 

[Golgotha]

The process was started when I stood up and took that first step toward the aisle and down to the front of the church and the altar . I did not ask for Jesus to be my savior until I was kneeling at the altar .

No I did not ask for a sign , never even crossed my mind .
Opinion here , I think it is good that a person has to get out of the pew and walk to the altar to confess they are a sinner and want Jesus as their savior .

You may have been influenced to have those thoughts in the back of your mind.

All the other believers there in the church will be praying for you as you are being born again , strength in numbers .

Them telling you that as you went up to the altar can influence that supernatural experience to occur

That my sins would be forgiven and my burdens lifted . And that is what happened Praise God !

I believe that had happened to you before you went up & you got born again of the Spirit by faith the moment you came to believed in Jesus Christ rather than at that altar.

Your supernatural experience may have misled you to believe that had happened then, but I have Biblical pause for that conclusion.

I had read a report how sinners were being saved from alcohol in their salvation moment regarding where believers and new believers were receiving he Holy Spirit by the sign of a loss of self control as if drunk in the "Spirit". This was from somewhere back in England in the 1800's <- I think, can't recall the exact year when this phenomenon was referred but there was another church at that time I was reading it that was trying to make readers believe that they were receiving the fruit of joy for why they were drunk in the "Spirit".

The Lord pointed out that to me that joy cannot be drunkenness because drunkenness is a work of the flesh so why would He mimic that with the fruit of joy? Plus, temperance is self control and for us to have all the fruits of the Spirit, joy cannot be drunkenness for that house divided would fall and they do fall supernaturally. Joy is joy.

My point for reference is that when those visitations of those spirits had stopped, those sinners went back to alcohol.

I had seen at one time on the internet a couple of years ago that a church was testifying to converts from getting high on drugs, as one of these converts say now he gets high on the Lord. I wonder when those visiting manifestations stops, if he would go back to those drugs, but I have heard no such report after that.

So feelings or supernatural experience should be discerned because there are seducing spirits out there. You may attribute that deliverance of your sins at your salvation moment of yours, but I believed that had happened the moment you had first believed because of this report in Acts.

Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. 44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

No going forward. No confession with their mouths. No water baptism. They heard the word, believed in Him and got saved. Then the new believers were told to be water baptized afterwards.

Since it was the Gentiles that got saved that heard the Word, the tongues that were being uttered, then those Gentiles that did not "hear the word" to believe in Him to be saved, is why tongues was a sign to the unbelievers at that time as they were hearing the wonderful works of God in their language as it had happened in Acts 2.

I do not think there were any foreigners in your church for that tongue to be a sign for and yet the church did seem to have led you to believe that the Holy Spirit in you wanted to pray for why you went up later on which John 16:13 testify that the Holy Spirit cannot speak nor utter for Himself but speaks what He hears.

One last post coming to your initial reply, Lord be willing.

 

[Golgotha]

Yes , I had seen others go to the altar and pray . I understood the basic concept of being born again but not much more . Was the Holy Spirit drawing me to be born again ? YES !

Actually scripture credits the Father for drawing us unto the Son to reveal the Son to us so we can believe in Him to be saved. Our believing in Him is a manifestation of God!

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Matthew 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. 26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight. 27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. 38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Believers & churches should give credit to Whom credit is really due. Sometimes they talk about the Holy Spirit so much that they forget everything He does, the Holy Spirit give credit and glory to Jesus Christ since the words, fruits, & gifts are from Him.

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. 15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:... 11 Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

May God help you test the spirits and the tongues they bring, but may He help you to also know that the moment you had come to & believed in Jesus Christ, you were saved then way before you went up to the altar to pray for your salvation.

Hebrews 11:1Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 2 For by it the elders obtained a good report.

Galatians 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.... 26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

 

[eddif]

I have to give pause about feeling the Holy Spirit in the worship place because He has no need to be felt in the worship place when He dwells in you by faith as your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit. You cannot get any closer to Him than that.

I know KJV
Mark 5:29 kjv
29. And straightway the fountain of her blood was dried up; and she felt in herbody that she was healed of that plague.

Hebrews 5:14 kjv
14. But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

If our body is the temple of the Holy Spirit, is this not a place of worship.

eddif

 

[Golgotha]

I was in private when I first spoke in tongues.

Thanks for sharing.

Have you ever questioned what that tongue is doing when there is no interpretation?

Or did you have to assume what that tongue was doing like.. self edifying or supposedly the Spirit is uttering His prayers to God?

I am still seeking what to say about the title of the thread.

It is a testimony that I believe every believer can share about our salvation in how we come to & believed in Jesus Christ to be filled to hunger & thirst no more.

Right now I am getting a lesson from sewing machines, vs knitting. Seems Jesus had a seamless garment and not a piece sewn to piece garment. We are called to unity of thought.

Here is a passage that lays out the order / rules for tongues.

Where tongues start
26. How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.

Rules for speaking in tongues
27. If any man speak in an unknowntongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.

Then go private if no one intreptrets
28. But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.

Now per your reference when two or three speak in tongues and another interpret, how is it that you interpreted that silence to mean privately when you have two or three speaking in tongues for another to interpret? Isn't that like distracting in church, especially for those around that person speaking in tongues in private to hear the two or three speak in tongues for another to interpret?

Reread your reference again in how in verse 27 it starts out by the singular man speaking in tongues and then another or two afterwards for another to interpret. Or if you deem that they all speak in tongues at one time for that poor guy to interpret out of that small group, why would anyone think it would be kay for those to use tongues in private when no interpretation? Remember this verse?

23 If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?

So if you really apply that verse 28 as allowing tongues for private use in that church service, and thus more people that use tongues for private use are doing it "quietly", how can anyone around them here the main event of the 2 or 3 speaking in tongues for when another interprets? And how would anyone coming in seeing all those members in the pews using tongues for private use as not mad per verse 23?

So I believe the way Paul is writing is not meaning how we would understand his words today for how can Paul command someone to be silent in the church when there is no interpretation? If the Holy Spirit is really speaking, then maybe some visiting foreigner is understanding what is being said without interpretation? Plus at the end of the chapter, Paul just said do not forbid to speak in tongues? Seems a contradiction to verse 28.

Sometimes I wonder if Peter was not referring to this chapter regarding Paul's writings as sometime hard to be understood.

2 Peter 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

But Paul wanted decency and order. So we can know how tongues were done by reading how prophesy was done.

31 For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted.

40 Let all things be done decently and in order.

So the speaking in tongues of the 2 or 3 had to be done one by one separately and then interpreted by another. That means the ones you perceived as speaking in tongues privately and somehow quietly, were not really speaking at all for that would distract those around them and make it hard to hear the orderly practice if more did the same. So why would the orderly practice be ignored in the pews? It would not.

So verse 28 has to mean something different. The clue may very well be at the ed of that verse for why he was to be commanded to be silent as in not speaking at all.

28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.

Are tongue speakers speaking to themselves? No. If we say that today that would be like saying he talks to himself, and so that cannot be what Paul is really saying as he also talks to God.

I believe because of the orderly practice of one by one of the 2 or 3 speaking in tongues and another interpret, a visiting foreigner may be in the assembly and stood up "out of turn" asking something or saying something in his native foreign tongue for why there is no interpretation coming. That is why Paul said that in verse 28 to command him to be silent because he understood what he was saying as God does too for he was not speaking in God's gift of tongues for why there is no interpretation, but speaking in his native foreign tongue as he understood it as God does too for why he was made to be silent.

Otherwise Paul would be contradictory in not forbidding anyone to speak in tongue. I mean really. Why would Paul be telling the Holy Spirit to be quiet just because no interpretation came yet? He wouldn't even dare.

So verse 28 was Paul explaining why that person was to be silent because he was just a foreign visitor speaking out of turn and not by the manifestation of the Holy Spirit for why there is no interpretation.

Hence tongues are not for private use as it will come with interpretation in the assembly. If Paul stress decency and order; then he did so as led by the Holy Spirit to write & instruct.

So one can read verse 2 as I did for verse 28 as this;

1 Corinthians 14:1Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy. 2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. 3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.

Are there mysteries to God? No. So this is being heard by men, but it is to men that do not understand that language because what that tongue speaker is saying is coming across as a mystery to them. God understands the tongue as the Holy Spirit is manifesting that tongue, but the men and the tongue speaker does not.

If you apply verse 2 in context, Paul is exhorting the gift of prophesy over ALL spiritual gifts and began to show why by comparing tongues in verse 2 against prophesy in verse 3 in the hopes of conveying that tongues is not a stand alone gift because it needs interpretation for edification for why prophesy is better because it can stand alone for immediate edification.

Course if believers had read 1 Corinthians 12:19-21, they would know that they are not reading verse 2 right as if Paul is saying the opposite.

1 Corinthians 12:19 And if they were all one member, where were the body? 20 But now are they many members, yet but one body. 21 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.

So that is why tongues was never for private use, but believers wanting that extra phenomenon apart from salvation that brought that tongue to be of God for why because it comes with no interpretation, they assume it is for private use when it is not because that extra phenomenon and that tongue of gibberish nonsense was not of Him at all.

Only the Lord can help you see the truth in His words as He has helped me to see this because that application lines everything up in truth about tongues even as Paul gave the bottom line about the real God's gift of tongues was for speaking unto the people.

1 Corinthians 14:20 Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men. 21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. 22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

So what does that extra phenomenon do? It mislead other believers that they can receive the holy Spirit again and when they receive that tongue, it serves as a sign to believers that they had received that other baptism with the Holy Ghost, and yet 1 Corinthians 14:22 says no, because tongues only serve as a sign to unbelievers.

 

[for_his_glory]

Hermitage which is located sort of in mid Northwestern part of the state near the border of Ohio.

Been there many times as my brother lives in Farrell. Wow, small world.

 

[for_his_glory]

So it is not okay for tongues for private use as it cannot be of Him let alone how they got that tongue which is apostasy by believing they can receive the Holy Spirit again.

I know we receive the indwelling of the Holy Spirit at the same time we confess Jesus as our Lord and Savior, even though many are not taught this, but when it comes to praying in the Spirit (tongues) in privacy how do you reconcile Romans 8:26-27 if you are saying it is not alright to do so, or are you meaning something else?

Romans 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
Romans 8:27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

 

[for_his_glory]

Well ok this is where I will start . At the beginning for me at least .

This my story of speaking in tongues . When I went to the alter at my local church to pray for my salvation after I prayed and accepted Jesus as my savior I stood there at the altar and words were wanting to come out of my mouth that were NOT my words . I was shocked and thought what is happening to me and I did not let The Holy Spirit have the utterance . Over the next few weeks I came to understand that The Holy Spirit was wanting to speak through me when I was at the altar . At a later church service anyone with a need went to the altar for prayer and I went and was prayed for and began speaking in tongues . No training , no teaching it just flowed . Now have I ever gave a message out in tongues in a church service , no I have not . I do pray in tongues when I am alone most of the time . Sometimes a melody come with the words and I sing my prayer , this is not very often but so great when it does happen . Are the tongues I pray in "modern" no not at all . What language is the tongues I pray in ? Well there are two names I have heard when I pray in tongues , Eli and Allah .

Golgotha , do you operate in the Gift of tongues ?

Altar with an "a" fixed it .

I love singing in Spiritual tongues as it brings me into the Holy of Holies before the Lord.

 

[Titus]

Also wish to add before I go to bed is that I know what you had experienced was really supernatural and not like me told to fake it for how I was to get that gift of tongues, but there is such a thing as pagan's supernatural tongue that is gibberish nonsense that existed in the world before Pentecost came with the real God's gift of tongues which is a foreign language to speak unto the people per 1 Corinthians 14:21

Isaiah 8:19 is proof that, that supernatural tongue was existing before Pentecost for why God would never mimic that kind of tongue since we are to prove all things, abstaining from all appearances of evil, even tongues that those spirits bring and not just those spirits per 1 John 4:1-6.

How can sinners know they have departed from those spirits if the Holy Spirit speaks the same way as they do?

How can churches knows those sinners have departed if they continue to speak in the manner accustomed in their practices in the occult or their idolatries?

Voodooism and Khundalini have supernatural speaking in tongues that is gibberish nonsense. One can research this pagan supernatural tongue on the internet to see its existence before Pentecost had come, but there is no need because the Bible already proved that in Isaiah 8:19 but you are free to do so in proving all things with Him.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. 22 Abstain from all appearance of evil. 23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.

 

[Titus]

Also wish to add before I go to bed is that I know what you had experienced was really supernatural and not like me told to fake it for how I was to get that gift of tongues, but there is such a thing as pagan's supernatural tongue that is gibberish nonsense that existed in the world before Pentecost came with the real God's gift of tongues which is a foreign language to speak unto the people per 1 Corinthians 14:21

Isaiah 8:19 is proof that, that supernatural tongue was existing before Pentecost for why God would never mimic that kind of tongue since we are to prove all things, abstaining from all appearances of evil, even tongues that those spirits bring and not just those spirits per 1 John 4:1-6.

How can sinners know they have departed from those spirits if the Holy Spirit speaks the same way as they do?

How can churches knows those sinners have departed if they continue to speak in the manner accustomed in their practices in the occult or their idolatries?

Voodooism and Khundalini have supernatural speaking in tongues that is gibberish nonsense. One can research this pagan supernatural tongue on the internet to see its existence before Pentecost had come, but there is no need because the Bible already proved that in Isaiah 8:19 but you are free to do so in proving all things with Him.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. 22 Abstain from all appearance of evil. 23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.

The only way to truly know if one who claims Christ is truly of Christ ,
examine the fruits .
I used to claim i knew Jesus , but did not .
my fruits proved my tongue a liar .
Thus if anyone comes and claims to know Christ
and yet defends Sin . You better know they are a liar as i once was .
And correct asap fast .
Now i am about to do a big no no to this big pc seeker friendly generation
but i must list a certain PC sin to help prove what i say .
Lets say i came to you and had a husband , aka that would mean i was gay due to i am a man . And i could pray like no other , sing psalms like no other
Would you really think i was saved and knew JESUS .
COURSE NOT . cause JESUS transforms us to love good and hate the evil of our flesh . SO my question is , How come folks just allow folks to remain in sin
to justify sin and yet say alas they say the name of JESUS and pray like we do
and can sing like we do , THUS they must know Christ . What a farce .
WHEN o when are we gonna learn that seeker friendly was bad news
to the church . I would list all the names of those false teachers
but , due to that could take months to do so , How bout i just say
let us get in bibles and learn that pattern .

 

[for_his_glory]

Hebrews 2:1-4 are warnings against neglecting salvation. Tongues is a part of those Spiritual gifts from the Holy Spirit, 1 Corinthians 12:10. Not any one of these gifts in 1 Corinthians 12:1-11 have ever ceased to exist. It's not a Pentecostal thing, but that which has been given to every believer that is in Christ and He in them beginning on the day of Pentecost. All these gifts are for the lifting up and edifying the body of Christ.

It is Dispensationalist, Cessationism and Reformers like John Calvin that brought about this view that speaking in tongues, prophecy and healing ceased with the Apostolic Age. I know they have not ceased as I have received these gifts through the Holy Spirit and have used them within the body of Christ as another gave the interpretation and also use the gift of tongues in my prayer time when I do not know exactly how to pray for something.

There will always be a battle between Cessationism vs. Continuation as they began in the first century up to present day. What's more important is that we keep our self in obedience with God's will and not neglect our salvation.

1Cor 12:28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
1Cor 12:29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
1Cor 12:30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?
1Cor 12:31 But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.

None of these have ceased in the true church being the body of Christ with He being the head of the Church. In the upper room on the day of Pentecost there were around 120 people gathered in that room and they were all baptized in the Holy Spirit with the evidence/sign of speaking in tongues.

How can things in the first century have an abiding effect today causing belief if no one today experiences and exercises these gifts of the Holy Spirit. What about the power of prayer as we see signs of the power of God. It is only Cessationalist and Dispensationalist that believe God only worked through His Apostles and since they are dead then all the gifts died with them. This is not what is taught in scripture.

Acts 2:16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
Acts 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
Acts 2:18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

After Peter was done preaching to the crowd on the day of the Feast of Pentecost:
Acts 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acts 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Acts 2:40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
Acts 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

Two baptisms as one being baptized in the name of Jesus for the remission of sin and the second being baptized in the Holy Spirit with the evidence of tongues.

Beginning at Acts 1:5 Jesus was talking only to the disciples in the upper room before he ascended up to heaven as He said: "For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence. The indwelling of the Holy Spirit was first given to the disciples before they were commisioned to go preach to the Jews. The disciples then left the upper room and watched Jesus ascending up to heaven. When they returned back to Jerusalem from the Mount of Olives they entered back into the upper room where there was 120 assembled there and they sought who to replace Judas and Matthias was chosen.

Starting in Acts 2:1-13 we begin with the coming of the Holy Spirit as all 120 were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in tongues, not just the disciples. Vs. 14-37 Peter begins his ministry speaking to te crowd that was gathered in Jerusalem on the day of the feast of Pentecost. Vs 37-41 after hearing Peter speak Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

3000 were baptized in the Holy Spirit on the day of Penetecost. Acts 10 Peter came to Cornelius and he and his household were baptized in the Holy Spirit. Acts 19 was the third instance of believers receiving the baptism of the Holy Spirit and began to speak in tongue that occured years after Pentecost. Acts 8 was the fourth instance of believers receiving the baptism of the Holy Spirit were the Samaritan believers who were baptized in the name of Jesus, but knew nothing of the baptism of the Holy Spirit until they heard and then received with the sign of speaking in tongues, which was a sign to Simon they received the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. The fifth instance is found in Acts 9 where we read of Saul/Paul's conversion on the road to Damascus and was indwelled with the Holy Spirit with evidence of speaking in tongues, (1 Corinthians 14:18).

The Baptism of the Holy Spirit and speaking in tongues is the evidence you have received not only the Baptism of Christ for the remission of sin , but also have been Baptized in the Holy Spirit. If you have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit then you should have the Biblical evidence that goes hand in hand of speaking in tongues.

Acts 19:2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
Acts 19:3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
Acts 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
Acts 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
Acts 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. (Notice is also says they began to prophecy).

1Corinthians 12:4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
1Corinthians 12:5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
1Corinthians 12:6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
1Co 12:7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

 

[Golgotha]

Sounds like John Wesley

Is there a second blessing subsequent to salvation? | GotQuestions.org

Is there a second blessing subsequent to salvation? Is the baptism of the Spirit the second blessing? Is sinless perfection the second blessing?

www.gotquestions.org

Mayhap. I reckon hawkman can confirm from the church if they had heard of him.

Now you come to a problem. What is the great commission speaking of? Is the power of Pentecost
Spiritual Gifts for sons and daughters?

And really I should not post this from a human perspective.
For _His _Glory is against sinless perfection ( which I agree with her), but I do think interpreted tongues after salvation is biblical.

Some clarity on your part. Are you saying that you think it is Biblical for a believer to receive another baptism of the Holy Spirit again apart from salvation with evidence of tongues?

As per Pentecost, the tongues manifested was in foreign languages as a sign to unbelievers, hearing the wonderful works of God in their native tongue.

It does not always happen, like in the area of the Samaritans in Acts 8 for why it was not reported that they all spoke in tongues. Why would they when there is no foreign unbeliever among them?

I can believe the real God's gift of tongues can happen at someone' salvation moment when there are other foreign unbelievers around.

I am dubious Biblically towards tongues manifested for "private use" when everybody in that church speaks the same language. The Holy Spirit is not vain if the whole point of tongues with interpretation is edification and so He would just go straight to manifesting the gift of prophesy. I do not doubt that the supernatural tongue is real to the "new believer" but I do not believe that was the actual God's gift of tongues.

And when they testify to feeling what they believe is the Holy Spirit's presence in the church, then I defer to 1 John 4:1-6 for why that tongue is not of Him at all as that is from the spirit of the antichrist that exists to be felt outside of us in the world.

If a medium went to church and called forth spirits, or these spirits are roaming around like a lion seeking whom they may devour, I can understand why John said not to believe every spirit but test them and the tongues they bring. 1 John 4:1-6

So now do I oppose 80% of the Christian faith?

In these latter days, apostasy is here now for why many have gone astray. Saved believers are being seduced to seeking to receive the Holy Spirit again by an outward sign not realizing the repeating visitation and receiving is akin to how the world of sinners do in seeking spirits & receiving them which cannot be of God.

1 Timothy 4:1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

I just refuse to fight that war. Not everyone speaks in tongues, but subsequent to salvation (?) people are empowered by / through certain spiritual gifts.

The irony is how they prove that salvation moment to the believer as by that sign of tongues and though not seeking it, they do seem to refer to that sign as evidence of their salvation.

Have I shot myself in the foot? Maybe, but it would do me no good to try and hide the link.

Thanks for sharing the link. It does show how believers use that term, the "second blessing" differently. I'd say it would be like giving another calling and another gospel to the believers to seek after & so moving them away from their resting place in Christ Jesus to seek a sign, thus inadvertently becoming an adulterous generations.

Matthew 12:39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:

This is why the church at Thyatira was called to repent of their "spiritual" fornication and to repent from speaking the utter depths of Satan for what they speak in Revelation 2:18-25

This site does try and honestly work through issues.

I am glad to see the Lord ministering here in this iron sharpen iron discussions.

I am open to correction from the Lord thru others by the scripture just as long how the scripture applied does not go against the truth in other scripture for then that would mean one or the other scripture is being misapplied. Sometimes I find myself going to the KJV for the scripture in question that was not lining up with the other scriptures in that modern Bible for why doubt is sown and false teachings left unexposed. But again, the Lord has to help me see the truth in His words & He does.

He prunes the fruitful disciples so they can bear more fruit per John 15:1-2

We are living in perilous times for why faith will be hard to find when He comes back, but I place my hope in Him to destroy the works of the devil in my life and to deliver me from every work of darkness in preserving me unto His Heavenly Kingdom.

Luke 18:7 And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them? 8 I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

1 John 3:3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure..... 8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

2 Timothy 4: 18 And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Mississippi Redneck
eddif

Thank you for sharing, brother.