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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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Am I saved; or am I fooling myself?
- Thread starter jgredline
- Start date
O
Oscar3
Guest
lovely said:
Lovely
You are not confused. This is the same old ploy by Tan and Unread Typo. Soon Drew, sputnik, guibox, Jay T, John the Baptist and CP_mike will be in here causing more confusion. The OP is not hard to understand. The questions are quite simple, and yet as you can see, its all about works.
Oh, they say you are not saved by works, but their post say otherwise. :roll:
One will say, well the sould is saved by works and another will say, what does it matter, its going to be annihalated anyway, and still another will say that only the body is immortale or who knows what madness they will bring in here.
People
We are saved by Grace, through faith in Jesus alone. Thats it.
To add works is to say that the beatdown Jesus took and the cross was not enough.
How dare you guys say that, teach that, and think that. :-?
O
Oscar3
Guest
Re: reply
Now this is an excellent post
Thanks Golf, its good see someone here who understands
Folks, Here is someone who is saved.
golfjack said:
Now this is an excellent post
Thanks Golf, its good see someone here who understands
Folks, Here is someone who is saved.
Throw in a conspiracy theory there so you can add more credibility to your statements. This is a Discussion Forum, stop getting over excited about who is going to participate in it. Did you expect people who are going to say "oh you are not fooling yourself" ONLY to participate?oscar said:
James 2:17 Even so faith, if it have not works, is dead in itself.oscar said:
I will have to go with what James had to say oscar. Fortunately, not by what you say. Your "faith alone" is described as DEAD by James. Not by Tan, not unred typo, not Drew, not Sput, not gui, not Mike but by JAMES.
If you want to try to see you are allowed into the kingdom of heaven by dead faith of "faith alone" doctrine it is your choice.
Read Revelation. See how many judgments start with "I know thy works" and how many by "I know thy faith". Even Yeshua wants you to work towards your faith, "I am the way and the truth" means you have to walk in the way. Faith lets you see the narrow gate that leads to life, works let you know you are on the right path.oscar said:
Faith alone lets you see this narrow gate, without works you will never get to enter in. I leave you with James 1:22 And remember, it is a message to obey, not just to listen to. If you don't obey, you are only fooling yourself.
What do you think you are fooling yourself into with your "faith alone", may be that you are saved!
Got any meat in your posts rather than ad hominem and red herring?
U
unred typo
Guest
Oscar3 wrote:People
We are saved by Grace, through faith in Jesus alone. Thats it.
To add works is to say that the beatdown Jesus took and the cross was not enough.
How dare you guys say that, teach that, and think that.
Why do you say that? We are saved by the gift of God’s only Son’s blood. How does that work? The Bible says IF we confess our sins, he is faithful to forgive us and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. He only had to die once for all sins everywhere, for all time, for all people. What if you don’t admit you have sin, or you refuse to repent of them? The truth is not in you, you remain in your sin.
What is faith in Jesus? Believing him and what he said to do and doing it.
James 1:21-22 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
But be you doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
We are saved by Grace, through faith in Jesus alone. Thats it.
To add works is to say that the beatdown Jesus took and the cross was not enough.
How dare you guys say that, teach that, and think that.
Why do you say that? We are saved by the gift of God’s only Son’s blood. How does that work? The Bible says IF we confess our sins, he is faithful to forgive us and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. He only had to die once for all sins everywhere, for all time, for all people. What if you don’t admit you have sin, or you refuse to repent of them? The truth is not in you, you remain in your sin.
What is faith in Jesus? Believing him and what he said to do and doing it.
James 1:21-22 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
But be you doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
Gabbylittleangel
Member
Saved by grace, and grace alone.
What sin is so big that the blood of Jesus can not cover it? If the work that Jesus did on the cross does not cover it, then tell me how I can do some greater work that will?
It is because I am saved that I have the Holy Spirit dwelling within me that inspires me to do good works. I do it because I love the Lord. Not because I need to earn something from Him.
What sin is so big that the blood of Jesus can not cover it? If the work that Jesus did on the cross does not cover it, then tell me how I can do some greater work that will?
It is because I am saved that I have the Holy Spirit dwelling within me that inspires me to do good works. I do it because I love the Lord. Not because I need to earn something from Him.
O
Oscar3
Guest
Unread Typo and Tan Ninety
Let me ask you two fellas a question.
Why was the thief on the cross saved?
Did he perform any good works?
Did he keep the 10 commandments?
Spin this one fellas
Let me ask you two fellas a question.
Why was the thief on the cross saved?
Did he perform any good works?
Did he keep the 10 commandments?
Spin this one fellas
U
unred typo
Guest
Gabbylittleangel wrote:
“It is because I am saved that I have the Holy Spirit dwelling within me that inspires me to do good works. I do it because I love the Lord. Not because I need to earn something from Him.â€Â
You have brought up another aspect of this topic, Am I saved; or am I fooling myself? Are you saved yet? When are you saved? Today, if I repent and confess my sins, I am saved, but if I allow greed, bitterness, pride or hatred in my heart, and it goes unrepented of and it becomes a way of life until I become so filled with hate and lust that I murder, steal or otherwise sin against my brother, I do not have eternal life abiding in me and I must repent and confess again. If I continue in sin and die in that state, I will lose my salvation.
If I hate my brother, I do not have the Holy Spirit dwelling in me. If I refuse to forgive others, neither will my heavenly Father forgive me. (I’m not making this stuff up.) So you can obey Christ out of love, and you should, but if you don’t obey, you are not living ‘in Christ.’ If you’re not living ‘in Christ,’ you don’t have eternal life. If you are living ‘in Christ’ are you earning eternal life? No, you are just doing what is your duty to do. If God mercifully gives you eternal life, it is still a gift you have not earned. It is still by grace you are saved.
“It is because I am saved that I have the Holy Spirit dwelling within me that inspires me to do good works. I do it because I love the Lord. Not because I need to earn something from Him.â€Â
You have brought up another aspect of this topic, Am I saved; or am I fooling myself? Are you saved yet? When are you saved? Today, if I repent and confess my sins, I am saved, but if I allow greed, bitterness, pride or hatred in my heart, and it goes unrepented of and it becomes a way of life until I become so filled with hate and lust that I murder, steal or otherwise sin against my brother, I do not have eternal life abiding in me and I must repent and confess again. If I continue in sin and die in that state, I will lose my salvation.
If I hate my brother, I do not have the Holy Spirit dwelling in me. If I refuse to forgive others, neither will my heavenly Father forgive me. (I’m not making this stuff up.) So you can obey Christ out of love, and you should, but if you don’t obey, you are not living ‘in Christ.’ If you’re not living ‘in Christ,’ you don’t have eternal life. If you are living ‘in Christ’ are you earning eternal life? No, you are just doing what is your duty to do. If God mercifully gives you eternal life, it is still a gift you have not earned. It is still by grace you are saved.
Enough of jumping around and moving the goal posts. Try to address the scripture that we have posted first. Then we can move along with the discussion with what you have suggested. You have not even begun to address the scripture that we have posted, yet seem to think that we need to defend our position more? Try to address your position from the scripture that we have ALREADY posted and then we can move to the thief on the cross. Why, James got your tongue tied? :-?oscar said:
U
unred typo
Guest
Oscar3 wrote: Unread Typo and Tan Ninety
Let me ask you two fellas a question.
Why was the thief on the cross saved?
Did he perform any good works?
Did he keep the 10 commandments?
I guess you can’t answer our previous points. Fine, then, on to the thief. First, we can’t see his heart or know how many times he had listened to Jesus preach. We don’t know if he stole bread to feed his starving family or robbed an old blind widow. We can’t judge the man. Jesus said he would be with him in paradise that day.
Did he perform any good works? Well, what would Jesus ask him to do? What could a man do with his hands and feet nailed to a cross? He could confess his sin and forgive those who crucified him. He could witness to those around him that this man was the Son of God and warn others to fear God and that there was a coming kingdom that Jesus would be reining over. Read the short account and see if you can identify any of these acts from the things that he said. If you can’t, I don’t think you would be able to understand much else we could tell you. And I’m sure you’ll still think it is us who are willfully ignorant or hopelessly blind.
Let me ask you two fellas a question.
Why was the thief on the cross saved?
Did he perform any good works?
Did he keep the 10 commandments?
I guess you can’t answer our previous points. Fine, then, on to the thief. First, we can’t see his heart or know how many times he had listened to Jesus preach. We don’t know if he stole bread to feed his starving family or robbed an old blind widow. We can’t judge the man. Jesus said he would be with him in paradise that day.
Did he perform any good works? Well, what would Jesus ask him to do? What could a man do with his hands and feet nailed to a cross? He could confess his sin and forgive those who crucified him. He could witness to those around him that this man was the Son of God and warn others to fear God and that there was a coming kingdom that Jesus would be reining over. Read the short account and see if you can identify any of these acts from the things that he said. If you can’t, I don’t think you would be able to understand much else we could tell you. And I’m sure you’ll still think it is us who are willfully ignorant or hopelessly blind.
jgredline
Member
Hi Folks
I was going to address this thread tonight, but after ''browsing'' ALL the new post since I last checked, I would be doing you all an injustice by not taking the time to read your posts completely. After all I would expect the same. So bare with me until tomarrow. Tan Ninety I look forward to addressing the book of James. That is one of my favorite books of the bible and the one I have studied the most. Infact I pretty much have it memorized.
Unread, you bring up good points as well.
Mutz, your point about the thief not being born again is good adn that is something we should look at as well.
Anyway see you tomarrow.
I was going to address this thread tonight, but after ''browsing'' ALL the new post since I last checked, I would be doing you all an injustice by not taking the time to read your posts completely. After all I would expect the same. So bare with me until tomarrow. Tan Ninety I look forward to addressing the book of James. That is one of my favorite books of the bible and the one I have studied the most. Infact I pretty much have it memorized.
Unread, you bring up good points as well.
Mutz, your point about the thief not being born again is good adn that is something we should look at as well.
Anyway see you tomarrow.
reply
Christ in His humiliation, was nailed to the cross for our salvation. But He was resurrected, exalted, and given a name above all names. When He comes in judgment, every knee will bow, in heaven, on earth, and in hell. And every tongue will confess that He is Lord. Those who did not neglect so great a salvation ( Heb. 2:3) will bow the kneee and confess His name with great joy; but those who neglected so great a salvation will bow the knee and confess His name, but it will be too late ( Phil. 2:5-11; Matt. 7:21-23). You will bow the knee now and accept Christ as your personal Savior, or you will bow the knee at the Great White Throne judgment and be lost forever ( Rev. 20:11-15). If you are not saved, before you read any further, will you stop and ask God to open your eyes to the truth, and make salvation plain, so that you can be saved and know it?
May God bless, golfjack
Christ in His humiliation, was nailed to the cross for our salvation. But He was resurrected, exalted, and given a name above all names. When He comes in judgment, every knee will bow, in heaven, on earth, and in hell. And every tongue will confess that He is Lord. Those who did not neglect so great a salvation ( Heb. 2:3) will bow the kneee and confess His name with great joy; but those who neglected so great a salvation will bow the knee and confess His name, but it will be too late ( Phil. 2:5-11; Matt. 7:21-23). You will bow the knee now and accept Christ as your personal Savior, or you will bow the knee at the Great White Throne judgment and be lost forever ( Rev. 20:11-15). If you are not saved, before you read any further, will you stop and ask God to open your eyes to the truth, and make salvation plain, so that you can be saved and know it?
May God bless, golfjack
I have a couple of questions for the rest while jg finishes up his response.
I am going to put my thoughts in points and if anyone can find the error, point me to it.
You say,
1. Salvation is by faith alone and not works.
Yet you condemn a homosexual that he is not saved even though he has faith in the Savior. Why? You say,
2. Man, dead in sin cannot enter the kingdom of God.
So what is a homosexual to do?
3. Deny his sexual orientation. Fight ALL throughout his life the urges of attraction towards the same sex and live a life away from the sin of homosexuality.
4. The above is nothing but WORK that a homosexual needs to put towards his salvation else the “traditionalists†deny that a homosexual can enter the kingdom of God.
From point 2. What is sin?
5. Sin is disobedience to Gods commandments.
6. Continue in sin, you are not saved.
7. What does one need to do to not continue in sin? Answer from 5, we are not to disobey the commandments of God.
8. What is not to disobey the commandments of God? WORK.
Conclusion:
Why do traditionalists bring out commandments to condemn homosexuals and deny them salvation if salvation is by faith alone and not works of keeping the commandments?
Why do traditionalists bring out NT scripture to not condemn themselves to escape the works of the law and not when it comes to homosexuals?
Why isn’t there a “big enough†sin that the blood cant cover when it comes to traditionalists, yet homosexuality is a big enough sin that they are denied salvation?
Sincere question:
What is a homosexual to do to attain salvation?
Have faith? Or Have faith + works of obedience by turning away from homosexuality?
Pick out each concluding question of mine and elaborate an answer to it see if the traditional hypocrisy is revealed to you. This is not hijacking the thread to homosexuality but the focus is on the relevant "faith" and "works" of the OP.
I am going to put my thoughts in points and if anyone can find the error, point me to it.
You say,
1. Salvation is by faith alone and not works.
Yet you condemn a homosexual that he is not saved even though he has faith in the Savior. Why? You say,
2. Man, dead in sin cannot enter the kingdom of God.
So what is a homosexual to do?
3. Deny his sexual orientation. Fight ALL throughout his life the urges of attraction towards the same sex and live a life away from the sin of homosexuality.
4. The above is nothing but WORK that a homosexual needs to put towards his salvation else the “traditionalists†deny that a homosexual can enter the kingdom of God.
From point 2. What is sin?
5. Sin is disobedience to Gods commandments.
6. Continue in sin, you are not saved.
7. What does one need to do to not continue in sin? Answer from 5, we are not to disobey the commandments of God.
8. What is not to disobey the commandments of God? WORK.
Conclusion:
Why do traditionalists bring out commandments to condemn homosexuals and deny them salvation if salvation is by faith alone and not works of keeping the commandments?
Why do traditionalists bring out NT scripture to not condemn themselves to escape the works of the law and not when it comes to homosexuals?
Why isn’t there a “big enough†sin that the blood cant cover when it comes to traditionalists, yet homosexuality is a big enough sin that they are denied salvation?
Sincere question:
What is a homosexual to do to attain salvation?
Have faith? Or Have faith + works of obedience by turning away from homosexuality?
Pick out each concluding question of mine and elaborate an answer to it see if the traditional hypocrisy is revealed to you. This is not hijacking the thread to homosexuality but the focus is on the relevant "faith" and "works" of the OP.
Good points Tan.
Though I don't believe that works in themselves save us, I still don't understand those who claim works has 'nothing to do with it.
If that is the case, why do so many condemn works of sin? According to them, we are all sinners anyway and nothing we do can save us (or make us lost for that matter). If a homosexual loves the Lord completely, according to the traditionalist, nothing more is needed.
So why is he condemned if 'works' have nothing to do with it?
If you start saying 'God can change you you must allow Him', great! This is a work of God, is it not? What if a homosexual HAS done this but nothing changes? What has he 'done' wrong? You see we are into works again.
There are many contradictions that are glossed over, I agree.
Though I don't believe that works in themselves save us, I still don't understand those who claim works has 'nothing to do with it.
If that is the case, why do so many condemn works of sin? According to them, we are all sinners anyway and nothing we do can save us (or make us lost for that matter). If a homosexual loves the Lord completely, according to the traditionalist, nothing more is needed.
So why is he condemned if 'works' have nothing to do with it?
If you start saying 'God can change you you must allow Him', great! This is a work of God, is it not? What if a homosexual HAS done this but nothing changes? What has he 'done' wrong? You see we are into works again.
There are many contradictions that are glossed over, I agree.
jgredline
Member
Hi Folks
I just popped in here for qucik second.
I agree that Tan brings up good points. There are also very good answeres that will make sense to you as well, and you / we ,will see how it all fits together.
I have what I want to say in my head, now I just need to put it to paper.
I very much appreciate what Tan said ''I am going to put my thoughts in points and if anyone can find the error, point me to it.
''
and I too what appreciate that. This is not about pride or who is right or wrong, but about finding out the truth.
See you at Lunch time.
I just popped in here for qucik second.
I agree that Tan brings up good points. There are also very good answeres that will make sense to you as well, and you / we ,will see how it all fits together.
I have what I want to say in my head, now I just need to put it to paper.
I very much appreciate what Tan said ''I am going to put my thoughts in points and if anyone can find the error, point me to it.
''
and I too what appreciate that. This is not about pride or who is right or wrong, but about finding out the truth.
See you at Lunch time.
jgredline
Member
Hi Folks
As I am walking by this computer, I can't help but sneaK in another post.
Here are some things to consider.
1) The law does not make us holy
2) Riteouseness comes only through Jesus by faith
3) The old covenant failed
4) The new covenant is all about Gods faithfulness
5) Jesus broke the Sabbath Law over and over and over again...... :wink:
6) When Jesus said I did not come to abolish the Law but to full fill it, He was not speaking of the physical Law, but Spiritual Law....
7) Jesus broke the Sabbath Law over and over and over again...... :wink:
As I am walking by this computer, I can't help but sneaK in another post.
Here are some things to consider.
1) The law does not make us holy
2) Riteouseness comes only through Jesus by faith
3) The old covenant failed
4) The new covenant is all about Gods faithfulness
5) Jesus broke the Sabbath Law over and over and over again...... :wink:
6) When Jesus said I did not come to abolish the Law but to full fill it, He was not speaking of the physical Law, but Spiritual Law....
7) Jesus broke the Sabbath Law over and over and over again...... :wink:
cyberjosh
Member
It's called perseverance of the saints and its the only way you will know if you are saved or not. Fruits will naturally follow true salvation. This process is called sanctification.
This is not talking about the forgiveness that we recieve upon justification. It is speaking of our present relationship with God and what we must do to obtain his grace for our life.
Since we are saved by grace and God will wipe away all of our sins in the end (and God does not impute our sin to us but rather Jesus' righteousness), we don't need to be forgiven again in this sense, but does that then mean that we should never again ask God for forgivenesss and after you sin you can just say "No sweat, God already forgave me because I've been justified!"??? No. John tells us "If we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins." This also is talking of our present dealings with sin, not begging God each time we sin not to take our justification from us.
cyberjosh
Member
By this arguement you seem to attempt to abrogate the process of sanctification. The "homosexual" does not have to change 100% before they can accept Christ, all they have to do is have a heart that wants to change and obey God, and upon salvation grace will be bestowed as power to fight sin in a process called sanctification. God said to Paul, "My grace is sufficient for you, for power is perfected in weakness." Homosexuality is a fleshly weakness and by God's grace the homosexual can be saved as he is (but only if his heart is right - same for anyone who is to be saved) and God's continued grace will work in him through sanctification.
Show me your faith without works and I will show you my faith by my works (sanctification).
Secondly, my Grandparent's pastor at their church, during a bold step of obediance to original Apostolic ordinance to excommunicate those who refuse repetitive requests to stop a sin (in the Biblical manner), said to a questionaire concerning the matter, when asked about future hopes for the person, he said, "First off we should hope that he would not put on himself the label of 'homosexual' but rather have him say "I'm struggling with the sin of homosexuality", because once you say "I'm a homosexual, that's just who I am" you are assuming that as your identity rather than your identity being that of a child of God struggling with a particular sin. We hope the best for him, and will pray for his return by the grace of God." I happen to agree. It shouldn't be something succumed to when you are a child of God.