And so it commences....

[handy]

I was going to put this in prayers and praises, but decided to put it here instead.... Not only will other parents have insight on how to pray for this, but I'm open to any and all advice as well.

For the last couple of years, Viola has certainly been on a roller-coaster. The worst was last year when every attempt she made to make friends and fit in at her new school was met with bullying, harassment and just plain meanness.

This year, she's back in her old stomping grounds and is enjoying the fruits of being a pretty, vivacious and well-liked girl.

Now this is opening up a whole new, but not wholly unexpected set of problems.

Boys. Hormonally charged teen boys who want nothing more but to get into her pants.

Blunt, but there it is.

So far, none of them have caused her to sway in her "undying love" for her grocery boy...

But.... yeah, the temptations are getting stronger and the chinks in her armor are beginning to show.

She had been texting one kid quite a bit... a kid whom she was quite honest about, sharing that he was sexually active. We told her to stay away from him. Saturday her two besties came over and talked with us... Viola was trying to get time alone with the guy. Her original plan was to tell us that she, the besties and a couple of guys were just going to meet in the park and hang out, all together, as a group. But the besties were very bothered and confessed that Viola wanted them to sort of go off with the other guys and leave her alone with this one kid.

We had a talk about it, both with the girls there and later, when the girls had gone...about trust, how if one loses it, it's a hard, hard thing to get it back.

Well, for the first time ever, she's lost our trust.

Yesterday evening I stayed in town because we actually had an appointment with our insurance guy. However, his secretary failed to put the date in his planner, so he never showed. (God's hand!)

Viola and Thomas had walked to the store, ostensibly to pick up some snacks for Viola's trip to the district wide Choral Festival...(in reality to see the gb)... and, due to a failure to bring her science homework home, she had lost her phone so it was at the house. While the kids were gone, I picked up her phone and surfed through her chat history.

Last Saturday night, after all our talking about trust, honesty, the need to remain open about what she is doing and who she is with...after all that talking and long after we all went to bed, she texted the boy in question. He invited her over, which she said she couldn't...BUT...she made plans to meet with him during lunch on Friday and leave the school campus. The plans got a little explicit...

She is trying to get me to believe that she was "teasing" him...and was playing a bit of a joke and was going to make sure he knew she wasn't going to actually leave campus with him and do anything...

Yeah... do I really look that stupid? :mad

So, she's lost her computer, tv, mp3, radio... for the rest of the week. We've shut off her phone. On Sunday, we'll discuss with her life as not grounded, but on a closely watched probation.

The thing is, I think we all know the answer isn't just grinding down the parental boot (not that she isn't feeling it at this moment).

The answer is for her, herself, to see how foolish and stupid it is to follow this path. If it doesn't come from her own heart, her own sense of conviction all the "punishments" we dish out will only... knowing my willful, resourceful and very independent daughter...push her into open rebellion.

So, I do ask for all the parents here to pray for my daughter during this roughest of all ages...when she thinks she's so much more mature and wise than she is...and when the peer pressure to lose the virginity (as if it's a horrid thing, to be rid of at all costs) is strongest.

...and, any advice on how to help her gain her own sense of integrity and conviction about this will be appreciated.

Please pray for Steve and I as well...that we can keep our tempers in check and have wisdom in what we say and how to mete out discipline that will correct and not provoke.

 

[jasoncran]

and pray for nathan. he is nearing the early stages of male driven stupidity, followed by im an adult and even more stupidity.

 

[handy]

Yep... we should all lift up each other's kids in prayer!

 

[andyboylester]

Handy, much grace to you. My wife and I have had much the same problem with our 14 yr old daughter. Her Bf who we never really liked, was pressuring her to have sex. Some of her friends from our church alerted us to the situation, and I was able to speak to the boy's father. Bf is now off the scene, and I think we're over the worst, but I now feel I can't be relaxed about her and it grieves me that our relationship has taken this beating, although it has to be said, things are improving, and in some respects are now better than before.
It's so hard to keep tabs on them, with facebook and mobiles etc. I think you are doing a good job, and are showing much courage. I'll pray for you guys.
Bless you.

 

[Danus]

Well Handy, you have my prayers. I think you are doing all you can and you just need support, validation and encouragement with the efforts you've described.

I was a rascal teen boy back in the day, and I can honestly say that it was in large part due to my freedom. I was mobile, well financed and allowed way too much privilege.

One of the things I noticed then was that girls who where kept close to home under the watch of good parents did not make for good rascal friends for me. I avoided them.

I hate saying these things because I'm ashamed of my activities at that age, but I also believe God gave me two girls to raise, after I got to know him, for a reason.

An old high school friend of mine once joked that when I wished, as a young man, to live in a big house with several women....I should have been more specific.

You keep doing what you're doing. I will pray for you and your family. You pray for me to.

 

[Mike]

Dora, you know I'm in the same boat as you, so hand me an oar, and lets try to steer through the rapids together. There are no uncharted waters quite like the uncharted waters of parenting, and there are no uncharted waters of parenting quite like the uncharted waters of parenting teens! :

As I have my devotions early in the morning and pray over our children, I will promise to add you and Viola. More and more, I'm leaning on close, personal conversations with my kids, emphasizing how deep the Lord's Love is for them, and how they bring joy to Him. I wonder how much you have this kind of conversation with Viola. I tell them how it grieves the Lord to see them making decisions that part ways with His. But, mostly, I focus on the positives and try to have meaningful conversations about the joy they bring Him when they give each day to Him and make each decision; how each decision they make is a building block to their character and integrity; how one day they will be so thankful that they stayed true to their love for Him. I try to nurture a desire to take baby steps with each decision and day so that this will become who they are.

It seems kids (and adults) have a hard time putting themselves into the future, where decisions today will impact that future. So, it needs to be a regular conversation.

Not that it's the best way or that I'm the parenting guru (as if... ), but is this something you focus on with her?

Prayers for you, sis.

 

[handy]

There are no uncharted waters quite like the uncharted waters of parenting, and there are no uncharted waters of parenting quite like the uncharted waters of parenting teens! :

I actually followed that!

I do try to help her look forward Mike and to realize that life actually begins after high-school... so many teens think that once school is over that's it... and about how important integrity and character are.

I think she gets all of it... but, she is also just being tempted by "popularity" (life's-breath for a teen girl) and views guy's interest in her as proof of popularity. Somehow, I can't seem to convince her that they aren't showing the interest because she's "popular". Both her dad and I have tried to explain what motivates teen age boys...but she doesn't really believe us. She tends to always think the best of people, until given a lot of reason not too...and that might be why she really can't accept that most boys really and truly are driven by...

I've talked to my one sister whose daughter was so very much like Viola at this age and she told me that the next couple of years are really the danger zone. That, after around 16-17...if she makes it that far without really compromising herself...it get's easier. Girls sort of have a maturity jump at that age. I know my niece did. She was a solid Christian girl as well...and absolutely drop dead gorgeous. She faced down a lot of temptation.

Now that we're not so caught up in the emotion of all this... I'd like to talk to Viola to talk to her cousin. Perhaps where mom and dad can't get through, her beautiful and vivacious cousin can.

I wish that there was more of a peer group for Viola that were solid Christians. But, there are just a few teens at our church and, while they are all friends, they don't see that much of each other during school because of scheduling and classes.

 

[Sparkey]

What dangers our children face are often even more subtle than overt. While young, my rebellion was expressed (in part) by taking drugs. My parents didn't know anything even though my mother's job was Head of Nursing staff at the hospital. It began with lying and sneaking. I don't see the difference here. Both actions (drugs and premaritial sex) have tremendous consequence that we want to protect our children from. Both temptation have aspects in common, kids assert their own identities, make their own decisions, and hopefully learn.

I don't know of anything that could have prevented the things that I most regret entering into my life but it was a series of steps that lead me away from the path of righteousness. Prayer (family prayer: all members) and open discussion were absent in my family and that may have fueled my disregard. I am asking that the Lord (our Waymaker) step in and cause a way to be made in our lives.

 

[Nikki]

Wow. You all are scaring me but also opening my eyes. Thankfully, my 14 year old is still pretty immature. She had a boyfriend earlier this year, but broke up with him recently. They never had chance to be alone, but they did kiss twice at the school buses (which is NOT supposed to happen!). The way I found out they kissed is because she got off the bus all excited and told me. My girls and I are extremely open with each other, so I'm thankful for that. Anyways, her ex-boyfriend is EXTREMELY flamboyant and she finally started to see that and broke up with him. When I say flamboyant, I mean gay-like flamboyant. Not sure if any of you have ever watched that movie The Birdcage with Robin Williams, but her boyfriend was just like Robin Williams partner in that movie.

Anyways, she doesn't show a whole lot of interest in boys like most girls her age. My kids have been sheltered a lot and per a counselor, we realized that we need to let them have a bit more freedom. We're lucky in the sense that most of the time their friends are hanging out here with us. My kids very rarely ask to go places alone.

My daughter will be starting high school this year and it really worries me. I guess I can only hope and pray that the things I've taught her will stay in her mind and she will have the strength and courage to do what she knows is right.

I still look at her as a little girl, but I guess eventually I will have to realize that she's no longer a "little girl". *sigh*

 

[reba]

Your daughter shows not much interest in boys around you. Sex and kids are like an iceberg.

Sex is so thrown at our kids today.... sexy undies for 7 year olds sick sick sick

I am so pleased my baby is 45 see you will survive :help

 

[handy]

Thanks for all the input... Nikki, I know what you mean! It is scary! And, if we want to raise healthy, happy adults, we need to go through it.

 

[reba]

Dora, are there any movies or books "out there" that have a sweet love story. about not giving into sex?

 

[AirDancer]

In the movie "New In Town" with Renee Zellweger & Harry Connick Jr... there was a scene where Harry's 'daughter' is going to her first dance... his character tells the boy something on the lines of "Whatever you do to my daughter, I will do to you." The boy gulps and promises that nothing will happen.

(The movie itself wasn't all that good ...but that particular scene was priceless.)

You & your family are in my prayers, Handy ... there is such peer & societal pressure for teens to get involved sexually these days, and when hormones get thrown into the mix, it's not easy being a parent.

 

[jasoncran]

:eeeekkk

I actually followed that!

I do try to help her look forward Mike and to realize that life actually begins after high-school... so many teens think that once school is over that's it... and about how important integrity and character are.

I think she gets all of it... but, she is also just being tempted by "popularity" (life's-breath for a teen girl) and views guy's interest in her as proof of popularity. Somehow, I can't seem to convince her that they aren't showing the interest because she's "popular". Both her dad and I have tried to explain what motivates teen age boys...but she doesn't really believe us. She tends to always think the best of people, until given a lot of reason not too...and that might be why she really can't accept that most boys really and truly are driven by...

I've talked to my one sister whose daughter was so very much like Viola at this age and she told me that the next couple of years are really the danger zone. That, after around 16-17...if she makes it that far without really compromising herself...it get's easier. Girls sort of have a maturity jump at that age. I know my niece did. She was a solid Christian girl as well...and absolutely drop dead gorgeous. She faced down a lot of temptation.

Now that we're not so caught up in the emotion of all this... I'd like to talk to Viola to talk to her cousin. Perhaps where mom and dad can't get through, her beautiful and vivacious cousin can.

I wish that there was more of a peer group for Viola that were solid Christians. But, there are just a few teens at our church and, while they are all friends, they don't see that much of each other during school because of scheduling and classes.

:eeeekkk boys at that age are driven by the male organ.ov vey you got some work.

 

[handy]

Dora, are there any movies or books "out there" that have a sweet love story. about not giving into sex?

I'm not sure... We do watch a lot of oldie shows where there is more of a love story rather than just sex. But, the overwhelming majority of any kind of storytelling, whether books, movies, TV, or even songs on the radio, push sex rather than love.

We did have a long talk today, Viola, Steve and I.

One of the things that came out in our talk was how committed she is to waiting until she's married before having sex.

Which begged the question.."why then did you text that kid that you would meet him off campus and do something ...while not sex per se, would be wildly inappropriate?"

Her answer didn't really surprise me.... It's just a lot easier to talk smack and say things like this via texting. I asked her if she ever talks this way to boys face to face and she doesn't.... I could tell by the way she turned beet red at the very idea that she was being honest about it, too. Just like folks on forums like this will be rude in ways they never would be in person, kids talk about things through texting they would be far too embarrassed to say in person.

We did have a long talk about how she raised expectations that she had no intention of fulfilling and how that is wrong, wrong, wrong!!!! She looked at it as "teasing" and again said that she was going to tell him that she wasn't going to go off campus with him, but we took her phone and that was that.

All in all, Steve and I were encouraged by our conversation. I told her that our job as her parents was to help guide her to become a healthy, happy, adult and to protect her from screwing her life up royally before she gets there... and, believe it or not, she not only agreed with me, but told us we're doing a pretty good job! :eeeekkk

I know that this isn't going to be the only incident and we have a long few years ahead of us... but I am more hopeful that she is seeing the importance of waiting.

 

[Nikki]

I'm going to be honest and say that I did not wait. I sure wish I had though. I was taught all the right things on a Christian's viewpoint, but just didn't listen. The pressure is sometimes just too much for insecure girls like I was. I often wonder if all my problems (endometriosis, prolapsed bladder, zero drive, etc) are my punishment for not waiting. I know that's silly because I don't believe God punishes us like that (especially when I've repented over and over throughout the years), but it still sticks in the back of my mind.

I've often joked with friends and said that the day my girls start their periods, I'm going to slip a birth control into their drinks each night at supper. At least an unplanned pregnancy would be one less thing to worry about!

I just hope that my girls wait, but I also know that the chances of that happening these days is getting more and more slim. Speaking of sex, did you have Viola get the HPV vaccination? I refused it for my girls at their last 2 appts. I don't know what to do about it.

I'm not sure... We do watch a lot of oldie shows where there is more of a love story rather than just sex. But, the overwhelming majority of any kind of storytelling, whether books, movies, TV, or even songs on the radio, push sex rather than love.

We did have a long talk today, Viola, Steve and I.

One of the things that came out in our talk was how committed she is to waiting until she's married before having sex.

Which begged the question.."why then did you text that kid that you would meet him off campus and do something ...while not sex per se, would be wildly inappropriate?"

Her answer didn't really surprise me.... It's just a lot easier to talk smack and say things like this via texting. I asked her if she ever talks this way to boys face to face and she doesn't.... I could tell by the way she turned beet red at the very idea that she was being honest about it, too. Just like folks on forums like this will be rude in ways they never would be in person, kids talk about things through texting they would be far too embarrassed to say in person.

We did have a long talk about how she raised expectations that she had no intention of fulfilling and how that is wrong, wrong, wrong!!!! She looked at it as "teasing" and again said that she was going to tell him that she wasn't going to go off campus with him, but we took her phone and that was that.

All in all, Steve and I were encouraged by our conversation. I told her that our job as her parents was to help guide her to become a healthy, happy, adult and to protect her from screwing her life up royally before she gets there... and, believe it or not, she not only agreed with me, but told us we're doing a pretty good job! :eeeekkk

I know that this isn't going to be the only incident and we have a long few years ahead of us... but I am more hopeful that she is seeing the importance of waiting.

 

[Sparkey]

I'm going to be honest and say that I did not wait. I sure wish I had though. I was taught all the right things on a Christian's viewpoint, but just didn't listen. The pressure is sometimes just too much for insecure girls like I was. I often wonder if all my problems (endometriosis, prolapsed bladder, zero drive, etc) are my punishment for not waiting. I know that's silly because I don't believe God punishes us like that (especially when I've repented over and over throughout the years), but it still sticks in the back of my mind.

My thought here may be off-topic but while reading I thought about the process that is happening in my life. There we are, young enough to think we know better and dumb enough to not forsee consequenses, right? Well, that describes me well enough in any case. From that point, the Lord called me and promised to make it where my sins were as red as scarlet, *there* I shall be as white as snow. Time-travel: forty years go by. I see the consequenses now all too clearly. They have been written directly into my heart because of the pain that my loved ones have suffered because of me.

There is a promise that the Lord is delivering on: That I shall cast my idols away from me (in revulsion). Now, the Lord knew that I was stubborn and pig-headed when He called me. So, there have been some dramatic events that have been used for my good. I'm not saying that I was punished by God with these things --but that even with the things that I most deeply regret in my life, God has been there to work with me and transform me; He has worked in them for my benefit and betterment. So the sin that I was trapped in has been shown as an idol, something that I put before my love for God and today? I'd spit after casting it away from me.

________________

I say this, Nikki, because of something you've said, "I know that's silly because I don't believe God punishes us like that (especially when I've repented over and over throughout the years), but it still sticks in the back of my mind." It sounds to me like God is working the same revulsion for sin into you as He is with me and that you too are at a place where you would spit after casting the idols of old away.

Blessings to you, sis!
~Sparrow

 

[handy]

Nikki,

No, Viola hasn't had the HPV vaccination, nor will she get one as long as she's with us, unless she requests it of the doctor herself.

We have talked about it though, her doctor, her and I... She understands what it's for and why it's necessary. I've told her that, prior to her ever becoming sexually active, she will need to attend to this and to birth control. One thing I've stressed with her over and over is that in today's world (really in any era) one can't just get "carried away in the moment".... STD's are too widespread, even amongst high schoolers and junior high kids.

As we talked at the doctor's though... as long as she remains a virgin, there is no need for the shot... and if she should marry a virgin and the two remain faithful to each other, there will never be a need for it.

However, I've also talked with her about the fact that marrying a virgin in today's world isn't necessarily a given...far from it. And, if she should get serious with a guy who has had sex before, then she'll need to get the HPV shot...as well as make sure that he has been tested and cleared of any other STD's as well.

It's also important for kids to understand that sex acts other than intercourse also carry high risks for STD's. I know Viola's friends all thought that oral sex was "safe sex"... (Thanks Bill and Monica 2 ). Viola herself was the one who informed them of the fact that they most certainly could get STD's from oral sex.

I know you're joking with your friends regarding the slipping of pills into drinks... but as long as the subject is up... Steve and I have told both kids that we will not arrange for them to go on birth control... the best birth control is abstinence and that is the standard both God and we expect of them.

If they choose to ignore that standard and have sex, then we've explained that sex is an adult activity... and if they are going to engage in an adult activity then they need to follow through on the adult responsibility of taking care of the birth control and protection from STD's.

This whole incident with Viola certainly caused me to second guess our path here... are we being foolish by NOT providing birth control and condoms (because pills won't protect from STD's) now that Viola is showing signs of sexual curiosity?

But, after the conversation yesterday, I feel much more at peace on how committed she is to remaining abstinent until she is married.

I truly believe, believe with all my heart, that if we parents give our kids a standard and consistently and lovingly hold them to it... they will live up to it.

So far, our best form of birth control and protection from STD's has been to chaperone her whenever she's with a boy. She's never been alone with any boy for longer than a few minutes... and she's not so far abandoned that she's going to be willing to give her virginity in the time it takes to go to the bathroom. I've talked a lot with her about how wonderful love-making is, when one is with a man who loves one and is committed to making the experience great for the woman... AND how completely lousy, even painful it is when one is rushed and the whole thing is over in a couple of minutes.

The "plans" to meet the boy off campus (which I'm now convinced she never intended to go through with) did bring up a whole new avenue in the chaperoning issue though... one that she hadn't thought of, but Steve and I have. Our school district has the kids' attendance for each class loaded on a website that we can access. We've warned her... due to this text she sent this kid... that if we EVER see that she has skipped a class, and a teacher or staff member cannot account for that time.... I WILL GO DOWN TO THE SCHOOL AND FOLLOW HER THROUGHOUT THE DAY!!!!

We could tell when we told her that, she had never even considered that a possibility... that I would follow her throughout her day at school. She was dumbstruck and blurted out... "Do you realize what that would to do my cred!!! (cred=reputation)

"All the more reason for you to make sure that we never see a gap in your attendance then!"

But, as I mentioned before, warnings of the parental boot only goes so far... it really needs to come from inside of her, the commitment to remain chaste. This is true for all our kids, and we need to all be in prayer for them as they navigate these next few years.

 

[handy]

Sparrowhawke, that was a good insight that you shared!!!


I don't believe that God "punishes" us in this way either... especially when He forgives us.

But, one thing that we've tried to hammer into our kids is the fact that some sins carry with it consequences that even the forgiveness of God doesn't take away. I've used the oft-repeated example of a girl who gets pregnant out of wedlock... God most certainly can forgive the girl and even bless her... but, His forgiveness doesn't mean that the baby is going to go "poof" and that her life won't remain forever altered.

 

[Nikki]

So far, our best form of birth control and protection from STD's has been to chaperone her whenever she's with a boy. She's never been alone with any boy for longer than a few minutes... and she's not so far abandoned that she's going to be willing to give her virginity in the time it takes to go to the bathroom.

Don't be so sure about that. I was raised right, taught right, had a great life, and yet I lost my virginity in the amount of time that it takes to go to the bathroom. *sigh* After it happened I was shocked and ran off crying. Oh, and it was in my grandmas house with her right in the next room. Let me tell you, some of those boys can really sweet talk and girl and practically hypnotize them! It's not like you have to get undressed to have sex either. Maneuver the clothes a tiny bit and that's it.

It really took a toll on me after it happened. I was so upset and disappointed in myself. I hated myself for doing that. I also began cutting not long after that. When my parents found out and told me that they were disappointed in me, that hurt more than anything....especially when they cried. They didn't scream and yell at me....they cried. Do you know how horrible that made me feel?

I know I've been forgiven but that is part of my past and it will always be with me.

I work in the medical field (Laboratory) and I'm shocked at the number of people with STD's. I'm always telling my kids that you can not tell when a person has an STD....especially AIDS. AIDS patients now look healthier than I look! The other day, I was testing a urine and the woman had Trichomonas. She wasn't even there for anything related to an STD. She had no clue she had it, but oh my gosh was it ever gross! I made sure to share with my kids how under the microscope it looks like a little blob with tenacles whipping all over the place. I'm always sharing stuff to gross them out so they will hopefully remember that they can catch something should they choose to have sex.

But once again, it's out of our hands. We can't watch our kids 24/7. If we do, they will just rebel even more. I've seen it too many times.