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Are Calvinists the Only True Christians?

Do these quotes make Calvinism a cult?


  • Total voters
    6
So you think there are "Christians" in some ( a few hundred or a few dozen) religious groups?
Baptist belong to your few hundred...are they christian? How about Presbyterians, are they saved? Should I make a list for you?
--You just admitted you do not think all the religious groups are "Christian" (you did not state if you think some or most are not "Christian') so you cannot be too upset of they come back at you.

Yes, some so-called groups that consider themselves as Christians are cults.

The problem is you don't seem to understand what a christian cult really is. To call a calvinist a member of a cult shows your ignorance as to what a calvinist actually believes and what a cult is.
 
Baptist belong to your few hundred...are they christian? How about Presbyterians, are they saved? Should I make a list for you?


Yes, some so-called groups that consider themselves as Christians are cults.

The problem is you don't seem to understand what a christian cult really is. To call a calvinist a member of a cult shows your ignorance as to what a calvinist actually believes and what a cult is.

No list needed but I am trying to make the point then that you must reject Ephesians 4:4-5 that speak of the oneness of the church and oneness of faith.

The Bible is not a comedy book full of errors and contradictions, so how do you rectify the contradictions among these groups, with some contradictions being mutually exclusive?

Has anyone ever asked you "what faith are you?". The question implies there are many faiths when the bible days there is just one faith, one body of information contained within the NT and it does not contradict itself.

My position is if I accept that Christians can be found within all these various groups, then I am:
1) compromising what I believe, compromising my faith and
2) rejecting the bible for the man made contradictions.

Since I will never do either of the two above it should not be hard to see my position and what my thoughts are about all these various groups.

EDIT: (Set theology aside and think about it in a pure logical fashion)
 
Last edited:
No list needed but I am trying to make the point then that you must reject Ephesians 4:4-5 that speak of the oneness of the church and oneness of faith.

The Bible is not a comedy book full of errors and contradictions, so how do you rectify the contradictions among these groups, with some contradictions being mutually exclusive?

Has anyone ever asked you "what faith are you?". The question implies there are many faiths when the bible days there is just one faith, one body of information contained within the NT and it does not contradict itself.

My position is if I accept that Christians can be found within all these various groups, then I am:
1) compromising what I believe, compromising my faith and
2) rejecting the bible for the man made contradictions.

Since I will never do either of the two above it should not be hard to see my position and what my thoughts are about all these various groups.

EDIT: (Set theology aside and think about it in a pure logical fashion)
Amen Seabass and amen again
 
No list needed but I am trying to make the point then that you must reject Ephesians 4:4-5 that speak of the oneness of the church and oneness of faith.

The Bible is not a comedy book full of errors and contradictions, so how do you rectify the contradictions among these groups, with some contradictions being mutually exclusive?

Has anyone ever asked you "what faith are you?". The question implies there are many faiths when the bible days there is just one faith, one body of information contained within the NT and it does not contradict itself.

My position is if I accept that Christians can be found within all these various groups, then I am:
1) compromising what I believe, compromising my faith and
2) rejecting the bible for the man made contradictions.

Since I will never do either of the two above it should not be hard to see my position and what my thoughts are about all these various groups.

EDIT: (Set theology aside and think about it in a pure logical fashion)

I'm beginning to think you are pushing cult material on this forum...saying your faith is the only correct faith.
Christians can be found in many denomination. I am not compromising my faith in saying so...and am not rejecting the Bible for man made doctrines....as you seem to suggest every view different from your view is man made.
 
Hello everyone! I'm wondering what people here think about Calvinists claiming that Calvinism is the gospel, Arminianism is another gospel, and that Arminianism has another Jesus. Do these kinds of statements deserve to put Calvinism into the category of a cult? What do you think?

Maurice Roberts, on the back-cover of The Potter’s Freedom, by James White, wrote, “In a manner reminiscent of Luther demolishing Erasmus, James White grinds the Semi-Pelagianism of Dr. Geisler to fine powder, not in the spirit of triumphalism, but knowing that all Arminianism is as hostile to the true gospel as it is friendly to a reviving Roman Catholicism.”



The description on the back-cover of The Potter’s Freedom says, “This book is written as a reply to Dr. Geisler, but it is much more: it is a defense of the very principles upon which the Protestant Reformation was founded. Indeed, it is a defense of the very gospel itself!”



Arthur Custance said, “It is questionable whether a dogmatic theology which is not Calvinistic is truly Christian.”

He also said, “Calvinism is the Gospel and to teach Calvinism is in fact to preach the Gospel.”



Kenneth Talbot and W. Gary Crampton said, “any compromise of Calvinism is a step towards humanism.”



They also said, “The apostolic doctrine was that of Reformed Theology.”



Loraine Boettner said, “There is no consistent stopping place between Calvinism and atheism.”



and, “The doctrine that men are saved only through the unmerited love and grace of God finds its full and honest expression only in the doctrines of Calvinism.”



William Cunningham said, “Calvinism is just the full exposition of and development of the sum and substance of what is represented in Scripture as done for the salvation of sinners by the three persons of the Godhead.”



David Engelsma said, “Calvinism is the Gospel. Its outstanding doctrines are simply the truths that make up the Gospel.”



Charles Spurgeon has said, “It is a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, nothing else.”



and, “There is no such thing as preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is called Calvinism.”

and, “The longer I live the clearer does it appear that John Calvin’s system is the nearest to perfection.”



Rienk Kuiper said, “It is my firm conviction that the only theology contained in the Bible is the Reformed theology.”



R. K. McGregor Wright said, “Arminianism thought is best understood historically, as a compromise of the Reformation gospel with the humanistic motif of the autonomy of the human consciousness flowing out of the ancient pagan learning that had just been rediscovered in the Renaissance.”



Alexander Leighton said this about Arminianism, “The last and greatest monster of the man of sin; the elixir of Anti-Christianism.”



William MacLean wrote in his book Arminianism: Another Gospel, “Arminianism is the very essence of Popery.” Not potpourri, but Popery, as in the Pope.

He also wrote that Arminianism “appears as the gospel of Christ, but in reality is ‘another gospel.’”



Duane Spencer said that “Arminianism is but a refinement of Pelegianism.”



Grover Gunn said, “Arminianism teaches salvation mostly of grace but not all of grace.”3 If Arminianism teaches a gospel not all of grace, that means they teach a gospel of works, which would mean teach a false gospel and are not real Christians. This would once again make Calvinism the only true form of Christianity.



Edwin Palmer said, “I believe some Arminians may be born-again Christians.” How gracious of Mr. Palmer.



According to Milburn Cockrell, “The Christ of Arminianism is not the Christ of the New Testament.”



He also claims that “Christ and His apostles” were Calvinists!



Joseph Wilson said that “no one has ever been or ever will be saved in the way taught by Arminianism.”

So after reading those quotes by prominent Reformed Theologians, what do you think? Is that an extreme cult-like form of Calvinism, or normal "orthodox" Calvinism? If you don't think those beliefs make Calvinism a cult, why not? Thanks!



Here is what John Calvin taught.

Let's take three common issues and show why they are valid criticisms in light of Calvin's own words: 1) God authoring evil, 2) God predestining to Hell, and 3) free will.

1. God is the author of evil

...how foolish and frail is the support of divine justice afforded by the suggestion that evils come to be, not by His will but by His permission... It is a quite frivolous refuge to say that God otiosely permits them, when Scripture shows Him not only willing, but the author of them... (John Calvin, The Eternal Predestination of God, 10:11)

The devil, and the whole train of the ungodly, are in all directions, held in by the hand of God as with a bridle, so that they can neither conceive any mischief, nor plan what they have conceived, nor how muchsoever they may have planned, move a single finger to perpetrate, unless in so far as he permits, nay unless in so far as he commands, that they are not only bound by his fetters but are even forced to do him service (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 1, Chapter 17, Paragraph 11)

thieves and murderers, and other evildoers, are instruments of divine providence, being employed by the Lord himself to execute judgments which he has resolved to inflict. (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 1, Chapter 17, Paragraph 5)

2. God predestines to Hell


…it is utterly inconsistent to transfer the preparation for destruction to anything but God’s secret plan… God’s secret plan is the cause of hardening. (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 2, Chapter 23, Paragraph 1)

Many professing a desire to defend the Deity from an individual charge admit the doctrine of election, but deny that any one is reprobated. This they do ignorantly and childishly, since there could be no election without its opposite, reprobation. (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 23, Paragraph 1)

…individuals are born, who are doomed from the womb to certain death, and are to glorify him by their destruction. (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 23, Paragraph 6)

With Augustine I say: the Lord has created those whom he unquestionably foreknew would go to destruction. This has happened because he has willed. (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 23, Paragraph 5)

3. There is no free will


We hold that God is the disposer and ruler of all things, –that from the remotest eternity, according to his own wisdom, He decreed what he was to do, and now by his power executes what he decreed. Hence we maintain, that by His providence, not heaven and earth and inanimate creatures only, but also the counsels and wills of men are so governed as to move exactly in the course which he has destined. (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 1, Chapter 16, Paragraph 8)

Creatures are so governed by the secret counsel of God, that nothing happens but what he has knowingly and willingly decreed. (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 1, Chapter 16, Paragraph 3)

God causes everything and of necessity, that is, in accordance with his providence. (John Calvin, The Bondage and Liberation of the Will, 1996, pg. 253)

Everything that happens, happens of necessity, as God has ordained. (John Calvin, The Bondage and Liberation of the Will, 1996, pg. 258)

Central to [Calvin's] case is the distinction between necessity and coercion.[74] Necessity he defines as "a fixed, steady state in which a thing cannot be otherwise than it is." He agrees with Aristotle that necessity is the opposite of "the existence of alternative possibilities" (335). The necessity to sin means that sinners cannot other than sin. (Lane, 31)


Total Heresy.



JLB
 
Every single human that has ever lived is predestined for hell. That is our justice for our sin as the wages of sin is death.


I will have to disagree with that statement.

  • having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, 4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, 5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, 6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved. Ephesians 1:3-6


JLB
 
One does nothing...it is God who regenerates....we can't regenerate ourselves.


We are regenerated by faith in Him, which means we obey the truth of the Gospel.

  • you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit


22 Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart, 23 having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever, 1 Peter 1:22-23


Can I ask you a question?

Respectfully, Where did you learn the things you post on this Forum?



JLB
 
I will have to disagree with that statement.

Of course you will.
But when you read John 3:18...your mind should change.

John 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.

Being condemned already....is predestined for hell.
 
We are regenerated by faith in Him, which means we obey the truth of the Gospel.

  • you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit


22 Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart, 23 having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever, 1 Peter 1:22-23


Can I ask you a question?

Respectfully, Where did you learn the things you post on this Forum?



JLB

Considering it is the blood of our God Jesus Christ that purifies us from sin...this must be speaking of a moral purification (how we treat each other) brought about by obeying the truth of the Spirit.

I love the next verse....it speaks of eternal security:
23 For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable,through the living and enduring word of God.

You asked...."Respectfully, Where did you learn the things you post on this Forum?"

My answer....the Bible and great teachers along the way.
 
Considering it is the blood of our God Jesus Christ that purifies us from sin...this must be speaking of a moral purification (how we treat each other) brought about by obeying the truth of the Spirit.

I love the next verse....it speaks of eternal security:
23 For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable,through the living and enduring word of God.

You asked...."Respectfully, Where did you learn the things you post on this Forum?"

My answer....the Bible and great teachers along the way.


Obeying the Gospel is how we are forgiven of our sins, because He paid the price with His own blood.

Obedience is how we appropriate His blood, to cleanse our sin.

22 Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart, 23 having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever, 1 Peter 1:22-23

Obeying the Gospel command to repent, which is to turn to God, is how we are forgiven of our sins, and transferred into God's Kingdom.

Repent means to turn to God.

If you are called to turn to God, then by default you are called to turn from Satan as your lord.

The way that your express this obedience of faith, concerning the Gospel is to confess Jesus as Lord.

This is what grants the believer/obeyer of the Gospel, the forgiveness of sins.

This is plainly what the Lord Jesus Christ taught to and commissioned Paul to do.

  • to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins

15 So I said, ‘Who are You, Lord?’ And He said, ‘I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. 16 But rise and stand on your feet; for I have appeared to you for this purpose, to make you a minister and a witness both of the things which you have seen and of the things which I will yet reveal to you. 17 I will deliver you from the Jewish people, as well as from the Gentiles, to whom I now send you, 18 to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.’ Acts 26:15-18
Repent is about being transferred from the kingdom of darkness to the kingdom of God.

It's about changing who you serve, as your Lord.

The Gospel of the kingdom is about changing the kingdom your are in, by changing the lord you serve.



JLB
 
Obeying the Gospel is how we are forgiven of our sins, because He paid the price with His own blood.

Obedience is how we appropriate His blood, to cleanse our sin.

22 Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart, 23 having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever, 1 Peter 1:22-23

Obeying the Gospel command to repent, which is to turn to God, is how we are forgiven of our sins, and transferred into God's Kingdom.

Repent means to turn to God.

If you are called to turn to God, then by default you are called to turn from Satan as your lord.

The way that your express this obedience of faith, concerning the Gospel is to confess Jesus as Lord.

This is what grants the believer/obeyer of the Gospel, the forgiveness of sins.

This is plainly what the Lord Jesus Christ taught to and commissioned Paul to do.

  • to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins

15 So I said, ‘Who are You, Lord?’ And He said, ‘I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. 16 But rise and stand on your feet; for I have appeared to you for this purpose, to make you a minister and a witness both of the things which you have seen and of the things which I will yet reveal to you. 17 I will deliver you from the Jewish people, as well as from the Gentiles, to whom I now send you, 18 to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.’ Acts 26:15-18
Repent is about being transferred from the kingdom of darkness to the kingdom of God.

It's about changing who you serve, as your Lord.

The Gospel of the kingdom is about changing the kingdom your are in, by changing the lord you serve.



JLB

With all due respect, I'm not buying your works based Gospel.
Should we be obedient? Of course.
Your problem is you need to be obedient to be saved......to keep your own hide out of hell. The christian is obedient because of their salvation and is obedient to glorify God.

Salvation produces obedience........obedience doesn't produce salvation.
 
With all due respect, I'm not buying your works based Gospel.
Should we be obedient? Of course.
Your problem is you need to be obedient to be saved......to keep your own hide out of hell. The christian is obedient because of their salvation and is obedient to glorify God.

Salvation produces obedience........obedience doesn't produce salvation.

Please use scripture.

Obedience is what is required for a person to be saved.

Obeying the Gospel.

Those who do not obey the Gospel, will suffer eternal consequences.

in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.

8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who believe, because our testimony among you was believed. 2 Thessalonians 1:8-10


  • Again, respectfully, please tell me where you learned what you post on this Forum?


Please use scriptures to validate your points so we can be instructed from the truth of the scriptures.



JLB
 
Considering it is the blood of our God Jesus Christ that purifies us from sin...this must be speaking of a moral purification (how we treat each other) brought about by obeying the truth of the Spirit.

I love the next verse....it speaks of eternal security:
23 For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable,through the living and enduring word of God.

You asked...."Respectfully, Where did you learn the things you post on this Forum?"

My answer....the Bible and great teachers along the way.


The scripture I quoted shows us how we are born again, sir, through obeying the truth.

That is how we are regenerated; Born again. Obeying the truth; Obeying the Gospel.

22 Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart, 23 having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever, 1 Peter 1:22-23



JLB
 
Please use scripture.

Obedience is what is required for a person to be saved.

Obeying the Gospel.

Those who do not obey the Gospel, will suffer eternal consequences.

in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.

8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who believe, because our testimony among you was believed. 2 Thessalonians 1:8-10


  • Again, respectfully, please tell me where you learned what you post on this Forum?


Please use scriptures to validate your points so we can be instructed from the truth of the scriptures.



JLB

Obedience has 1 step....

John 6:40 For this is the will of My Father, that everyone beholding the Son and believing in Him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up in the last day."

You add to that step with your works based salvation.
 
The scripture I quoted shows us how we are born again, sir, through obeying the truth.

That is how we are regenerated; Born again. Obeying the truth; Obeying the Gospel.

22 Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart, 23 having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever, 1 Peter 1:22-23



JLB

Considering it is the blood of our God Jesus Christ that purifies us from sin...this must be speaking of a moral purification (how we treat each other) brought about by obeying the truth of the Spirit.

I love the next verse....it speaks of eternal security:
23 For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable,through the living and enduring word of God.
 
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