Are Christians to keep the Sabbath?

[rrowell]

Show me the first commandment in the New Testament.

Matthew 6:24 (KJV)
No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

 

[handy]

Tell you what, you go make a legal covenant with your neighbor with certain rules that apply. Now break those rules and when your neighbor hauls you into court, see if the judge agrees with you that you breaking the rules nullifies the covenant. I am pretty sure your neighbor will have his way with you in court. I don't think you understand what a covenant is.

But that's not the scenario that applies here.

The scenario that applies would be to make a legal covenant with your neighbor with certain rules that apply. You break the rules... but your neighbor dies. Another neighbor (Let's call him Lucifer) who would like to see you suffer just because he's evil hauls you before a judge and accuses you of breaking the rules and the judge says... "The covenant is no longer valid due to the death of one of the parties."

Jesus did not abolish the law... the rules of the old covenant. He fulfilled the old covenant by keeping it perfectly... then He died. Once He died, the old covenant passed away and a New Covenant was established. Not only is the old covenant no longer valid, due to the death of Christ... We are sternly warned not to go back to keeping the old covenant, thinking that there is any salvation in it for us.

When Jesus said He fulfilled the law what is the context?

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Mat 5:21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
Mat 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
Mat 5:23 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee;
Mat 5:24 Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.

Here is the sixth Commandment fulfilled. It is obviously not done away, but fulfilling (filling full) gives it a much deeper meaning than was previously understood.

Mat 5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
Mat 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

Here is the seventh Commandment fulfilled, filled full.

This is an incorrect idea of what Christ's fulfilling the Law is. He is not "filling full" the law with spiritual meaning... the law always had those spiritual contexts, even if the people were pretty good at ignoring the spirit of the law while following the letter of it. As Paul wrote to the Romans, "For we know that the Law is Spiritual..."

Christ fulfilled the law by being the Son of Man and being the only Man who kept the law, spirit and letter, completely and perfectly and then died.

You quote Rom 3:31 " Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law."

Yes, we establish the law, but in what way. Paul clarifies what he is saying here in Chapter 7:

Or do you not know, brethren (for I am speaking to those who know the law), that the law has jurisdiction over a person as long as he lives? 2 For the married woman is bound by law to her husband while he is living; but if her husband dies, she is released from the law concerning the husband. 3 So then, if while her husband is living she is joined to another man, she shall be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from the law, so that she is not an adulteress though she is joined to another man. 4 Therefore, my brethren, you also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ, so that you might be joined to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. 5 For while we were in the flesh, the sinful passions, which were aroused by the Law, were at work in the members of our body to bear fruit for death. 6 But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.
7 What shall we say then? Is the Law sin? May it never be! On the contrary, I would not have come to know sin except through the Law; for I would not have known about coveting if the Law had not said, “ You shall not covet.†8 But sin, taking opportunity through the commandment, produced in me coveting of every kind; for apart from the Law sin is dead.

The Law is not sin and we establish this through faith... that the Law is perfect and holy and we cannot hope, as sinful people, to fulfill it. This is what faith says... I am a sinner and cannot keep God's holy law... this establishes the Law.

After Paul says that we establish the Law through faith, he points out that this was always the way that God's people were saved... through faith... Paul immediately goes to the context of Abraham acting out of faith.

Faith establishes the Law... but we need to keep in mind what truly does nullify the Law... it's not believing that Christ fulfilled the Law on the cross and we by grace we live in faith... that still establishes the Law's proper context.

No, what nullifies the Law is thinking that it is by keeping it we are made righteous. As Paul said of Abraham:

Romans 4:9 For we say, “ Faith was credited to Abraham as righteousness.†10 How then was it credited? While he was circumcised, or uncircumcised? Not while circumcised, but while uncircumcised; 11 and he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while uncircumcised, so that he might be the father of all who believe without being circumcised, that righteousness might be credited to them, 12 and the father of circumcision to those who not only are of the circumcision, but who also follow in the steps of the faith of our father Abraham which he had while uncircumcised. 13 For the promise to Abraham or to his descendants that he would be heir of the world was not through the Law, but through the righteousness of faith. 14 For if those who are of the Law are heirs, faith is made void and the promise is nullified; 15 for the Law brings about wrath, but where there is no law, there also is no violation.

For if those who are of the Law are heirs, faith is made void and the promise is nullified....

This is why it is imperative for us to walk in the newness of the Spirit rather than in the letter of the Law.

 

[John 8:32]

Act 20:6 And we sailed away from Philippi after the days of unleavened bread, and came unto them to Troas in five days; where we abode seven days.
Act 20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.
Act 20:8 And there were many lights in the upper chamber, where they were gathered together.
Act 20:9 And there sat in a window a certain young man named Eutychus, being fallen into a deep sleep: and as Paul was long preaching, he sunk down with sleep, and fell down from the third loft, and was taken up dead.
Act 20:10 And Paul went down, and fell on him, and embracing him said, Trouble not yourselves; for his life is in him.
Act 20:11 When he therefore was come up again, and had broken bread, and eaten, and talked a long while, even till break of day, so he departed.
Act 20:12 And they brought the young man alive, and were not a little comforted.
Act 20:13 And we went before to ship, and sailed unto Assos, there intending to take in Paul: for so had he appointed, minding himself to go afoot.
Act 20:14 And when he met with us at Assos, we took him in, and came to Mitylene.

Paul had arrived in Troas and was there for seven days. One could surmise that he was teaching the brethren there every day, but the scripture does not say so. Anyhoo, on a Saturday evening Paul was preaching to them and continued through until midnight. After the incident with Eutychus, Paul continued to preach until Sunday morning. Let’s investigate…

Act 20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

Breaking bread is eating a meal, the eucharist is not mentioned. In fact where it is mentioned is here…

1Co 11:19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.
1Co 11:20 When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper.
1Co 11:21 For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken.
1Co 11:22 What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? What shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not.

Not to eat a meal, but to take the bread and wine, the Passover ceremony. They were not taking the Passover in Acts 20, they were eating a meal.

Act 20:11 When he therefore was come up again, and had broken bread, and eaten, and talked a long while, even till break of day, so he departed.

They ate again and then Paul continued until daybreak on Sunday morning. The he walked 19 miles across the peninsula to Assos. Hard work for a day of rest I would think.

If Paul kept Sunday, why would this passage be here three chapters earlier?

Act 17:2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,

Paul’s manner or custom was to reason with and preach on the Sabbath day.

Act 13:13 Now when Paul and his company loosed from Paphos, they came to Perga in Pamphylia: and John departing from them returned to Jerusalem.
Act 13:14 But when they departed from Perga, they came to Antioch in Pisidia, and went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and sat down.
Act 13:15 And after the reading of the law and the prophets the rulers of the synagogue sent unto them, saying, Ye men and brethren, if ye have any word of exhortation for the people, say on.
Act 13:16 Then Paul stood up, and beckoning with his hand said, Men of Israel, and ye that fear God, give audience.

For our Finicky friend here is one…

Act 13:42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.

The gentiles are beseeching Paul to preach to them on the Sabbath.

Act 13:44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.

These gentiles must have discussed Paul’s preaching with their friends and neighbors, because here is what happened the following week…

Act 13:44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.

Act 16:13 And on the sabbath we went out of the city by a river side, where prayer was wont to be made; and we sat down, and spake unto the women which resorted thither.

Why didn’t he do this on Sunday?

Paul’s manner was to observe the Sabbath…

Act 17:2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,

And again for Finicky…

Act 18:4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.

Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

Rest:

G4520
σαββατισμός
sabbatismos
sab-bat-is-mos'
From a derivative of G4521; a “sabbatismâ€, that is, (figuratively) the repose of Christianity (as a type of heaven): - rest.

G4521
σάββατον
sabbaton
sab'-bat-on
Of Hebrew origin [H7676]; the Sabbath (that is, Shabbath), or day of weekly repose from secular avocations (also the observance or institution itself); by extension a se'nnight, that is, the interval between two Sabbaths; likewise the plural in all the above applications: - sabbath (day), week.


New International Version (©1984)
There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God;

New Living Translation (©2007)
So there is a special rest still waiting for the people of God.

English Standard Version (©2001)
So then, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God,

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
So there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God.

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

International Standard Version (©2008)
There remains, therefore, a Sabbath rest for the people of God,

Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
So then, it remains for the people of God to keep the Sabbath.

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
Therefore, a time of rest and worship exists for God's people.

King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
There remains therefore a rest to the people of God.

American King James Version
There remains therefore a rest to the people of God.

American Standard Version
There remaineth therefore a sabbath rest for the people of God.

Douay-Rheims Bible
There remaineth therefore a day of rest for the people of God.

Darby Bible Translation
There remains then a sabbatism to the people of God.

English Revised Version
There remaineth therefore a sabbath rest for the people of God.

Webster's Bible Translation
There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

Weymouth New Testament
It follows that there still remains a sabbath rest for the people of God.

World English Bible
There remains therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God.

Young's Literal Translation
there doth remain, then, a sabbatic rest to the people of God,


Now, you can call this a Sunday rest if you wish, or you can call it a space shuttle, but the NT teaches the Sabbath not Sunday.

 

[handy]

As you quoted...

Paul’s manner or custom was to reason with and preach on the Sabbath day.

This was Paul's manner... his custom...

Nothing to do with a commandment that the Church must keep.

If it is your manner or custom to keep the Sabbath, because you find spiritual meaning in it... fine and good. But, do not make your custom a burden on other Christians.

Never try to be justified by keeping a Law... any Law... You will be severed from Christ and fall from grace. Galatians 5:4

 

[John 8:32]

As you quoted...

Paul’s manner or custom was to reason with and preach on the Sabbath day.

This was Paul's manner... his custom...

Nothing to do with a commandment that the Church must keep.

If it is your manner or custom to keep the Sabbath, because you find spiritual meaning in it... fine and good. But, do not make your custom a burden on other Christians.

Never try to be justified by keeping a Law... any Law... You will be severed from Christ and fall from grace. Galatians 5:4

Why wouldn't he preach or observe another day such as Sunday if that were the proper day? Hmmm, so he was doing it wrong?

As I have stated in the past, keeping the law does not earn salvation, it is the gift of God. Is this wonderful gift given to everyone, no matter what they do? Hmmm, that smacks of universal salvation.

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

So what is sin?

1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

How does one "trodden under foot the Son of God"? How does one count the blood of the Covenant an unholy thing? How does one do despite to the Spirit of Grace?

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

And again, what is sin?

1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Seems to me that sinning severs us from Christ.

Rom 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Rom 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

 

[JLB]

I would like to point out that NONE of the above mentioned scriptures categorically "prove" that the Sabbath was commanded to be followed. That the Apostles found themselves preaching at this time in a Jewish world is not unexpected. Paul also shaved his head to "appear" to follow the law:

Acts 21:23 "We have four men who have taken a vow; 24 take them and purify yourself along with them and pay their expenses, so that they may have their heads shaved. Then everyone will know there is nothing in what they have been told about you, but that you yourself live in conformity with the law. 25 But regarding the Gentiles who have believed, we have written a letter, having decided that they should avoid meat that has been sacrificed to idols and blood and what has been strangled and sexual immorality. 26 Then Paul took the men the next day, and after he had purified himself along with them, he went to the temple and gave notice of the completion of the days of purification, when the sacrifice would be offered for each of them."

These scriptures cannot be used to validate shaving our heads "in conformity with the law." I have not heard that argued, but the same principal applies as to the sabbath.

Another example is where Paul instructed circumcision:

Acts 16:3 "Paul wanted Timothy to accompany him, and he took him and circumcised him because of the Jews who were in those places, for they all knew that his father was Greek."

Again, those who argue from scripture to observe the Sabbath do not also advocate circumcision... why not?

The use of the scriptures to validate the Sabbath are based on two basic reasons: 1/. the custom of the Jews to maintain "Saturday" as holy. Saturday was not even the original sabbath day; this day was decided in a council after the lunar calendar was conformed to blend with the solar calendar. The original Hebrews did not have names for the days of the week, they had numbers. The Jews "Saturday" Sabbath is itself an error; although it was practiced as their custom. 2/. The misuse of scripture. The scriptures are somewhat distorted and twisted to force this expectation on Christians. This teaching is not a natural understanding; it is forced.

Another "plumb-line" to gain an absolute testimony of what the first church taught on the Sabbath is gained from examining the documents of the 2nd and 3rd centuries. These were the Christians who immediately followed after the Apostles, and some of them knew the Apostles personally (Polycarp, bishop of Smyrna). I will examine these documents in a follow-up post. These fathers are often dismissed as being not a credible testimony because "error crept into the church". I do accept that error did creep into the church, but this was not until the 4th century. The 2nd and 3rd century fathers were extremely orthodox. More to come...

Tri

Looking forward to some quotes from the early Church fathers.

Thanks Bro!


JLB

 

[John 8:32]

But that's not the scenario that applies here.

The scenario that applies would be to make a legal covenant with your neighbor with certain rules that apply. You break the rules... but your neighbor dies. Another neighbor (Let's call him Lucifer) who would like to see you suffer just because he's evil hauls you before a judge and accuses you of breaking the rules and the judge says... "The covenant is no longer valid due to the death of one of the parties."

OK, try that some time with the covenants and restrictions on a land deed. See if the judge rules the covenant concerning the deed null and void because one of the parties died.

Jesus did not abolish the law... the rules of the old covenant.

Problem is the Ten Commandments were around prior to the Old Covenant. They are not the Old Covenant.

He fulfilled the old covenant by keeping it perfectly... then He died. Once He died, the old covenant passed away and a New Covenant was established.

You mean the one where He takes His law and writes it in our hearts and minds?

Not only is the old covenant no longer valid, due to the death of Christ... We are sternly warned not to go back to keeping the old covenant, thinking that there is any salvation in it for us.

Interesting you should say this, salvation was never promised in the OC.

This is an incorrect idea of what Christ's fulfilling the Law is. He is not "filling full" the law with spiritual meaning... the law always had those spiritual contexts, even if the people were pretty good at ignoring the spirit of the law while following the letter of it. As Paul wrote to the Romans, "For we know that the Law is Spiritual..."

Christ fulfilled the law by being the Son of Man and being the only Man who kept the law, spirit and letter, completely and perfectly and then died.

Yep, so His fulfilling the law and then His death to pay our penalty we have incurred for breaking the law did away with it? Not.

You quote Rom 3:31 " Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law."

Yes, we establish the law, but in what way. Paul clarifies what he is saying here in Chapter 7:

Or do you not know, brethren (for I am speaking to those who know the law), that the law has jurisdiction over a person as long as he lives? 2 For the married woman is bound by law to her husband while he is living; but if her husband dies, she is released from the law concerning the husband. 3 So then, if while her husband is living she is joined to another man, she shall be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from the law, so that she is not an adulteress though she is joined to another man. 4 Therefore, my brethren, you also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ, so that you might be joined to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. 5 For while we were in the flesh, the sinful passions, which were aroused by the Law, were at work in the members of our body to bear fruit for death. 6 But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.
7 What shall we say then? Is the Law sin? May it never be! On the contrary, I would not have come to know sin except through the Law; for I would not have known about coveting if the Law had not said, “ You shall not covet.” 8 But sin, taking opportunity through the commandment, produced in me coveting of every kind; for apart from the Law sin is dead.

So the seventh Commandment is still in force? The Law against adultery?

Rom 7:1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
Rom 7:2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
Rom 7:3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.

Well now I am confused, first the law is done away and now it is still in effect, which is it?

The Law is not sin and we establish this through faith...

Exactly, the Law is not sin, it defines sin...

Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

Paul even shows this by example, that lust is sin because of the tenth Commandment.

that the Law is perfect and holy and we cannot hope, as sinful people, to fulfill it. This is what faith says... I am a sinner and cannot keep God's holy law... this establishes the Law. [/COLOR][/COLOR]

So are you saying that because you cannot live perfectly, there is no sense in trying? Just do anything and everything you want because you are under grace?

Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

After Paul says that we establish the Law through faith, he points out that this was always the way that God's people were saved... through faith... Paul immediately goes to the context of Abraham acting out of faith.

What else did Abraham do by faith...

Gen 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Faith establishes the Law... but we need to keep in mind what truly does nullify the Law... it's not believing that Christ fulfilled the Law on the cross and we by grace we live in faith... that still establishes the Law's proper context.

So it is abolished? How about a date with your wife, I'll come over tonight. When I leave I'll clean all the valuables out of your house and if you protest, look out. Because after all, faith abolishes the law.

No, what nullifies the Law is thinking that it is by keeping it we are made righteous. As Paul said of Abraham:

Romans 4:9 For we say, “ Faith was credited to Abraham as righteousness.” 10 How then was it credited? While he was circumcised, or uncircumcised? Not while circumcised, but while uncircumcised; 11 and he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while uncircumcised, so that he might be the father of all who believe without being circumcised, that righteousness might be credited to them, 12 and the father of circumcision to those who not only are of the circumcision, but who also follow in the steps of the faith of our father Abraham which he had while uncircumcised.

13 For the promise to Abraham or to his descendants that he would be heir of the world was not through the Law, but through the righteousness of faith. 14 For if those who are of the Law are heirs, faith is made void and the promise is nullified; 15 for the Law brings about wrath, but where there is no law, there also is no violation.

For if those who are of the Law are heirs, faith is made void and the promise is nullified....

This is why it is imperative for us to walk in the newness of the Spirit rather than in the letter of the Law.

I have never said that keeping the law makes one righteous...

Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Your line of thinking is that since we cannot be justified by the deeds of the law, we should not strive to keep the law?

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Paul disagrees with you, he says we do not void the law through faith, we establish it.

 

[nmwings]

And every one of them were Nailed to the Cross:

Your interpretation is WOEFULLY mistaken.

 

[John 8:32]

Your interpretation is WOEFULLY mistaken.

Exactly, if the law is nailed to the cross, what is sin? What was nailed to the cross is the note of debt of guilt that is described in Col 2.

 

[nmwings]

nwings ........ work must be defined.

So Judaism says! And Judaism has "defined" themselves to death with their 1,600+ definitions of what constitutes work! The Lord only gives us 6.

Deut 4:2 You shall not add to the word which I command you, nor take from it, that you may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you.

Isn’t it ironic how this command (and prophecy) has played out over the centuries? The Jews have added and the Christians have taken away.

 

[nmwings]

Exactly, if the law is nailed to the cross, what is sin? What was nailed to the cross is the note of debt of guilt that is described in Col 2.

 

[Gordon]

Thanks for all the replies. You all argue your points so well. I think I'm going to have to digest all of this because I do not feel led either way by the Holy Spirit.

 

[JLB]

But that's not the scenario that applies here.

The scenario that applies would be to make a legal covenant with your neighbor with certain rules that apply. You break the rules... but your neighbor dies. Another neighbor (Let's call him Lucifer) who would like to see you suffer just because he's evil hauls you before a judge and accuses you of breaking the rules and the judge says... "The covenant is no longer valid due to the death of one of the parties."

Jesus did not abolish the law... the rules of the old covenant. He fulfilled the old covenant by keeping it perfectly... then He died. Once He died, the old covenant passed away and a New Covenant was established. Not only is the old covenant no longer valid, due to the death of Christ... We are sternly warned not to go back to keeping the old covenant, thinking that there is any salvation in it for us.

This is an incorrect idea of what Christ's fulfilling the Law is. He is not "filling full" the law with spiritual meaning... the law always had those spiritual contexts, even if the people were pretty good at ignoring the spirit of the law while following the letter of it. As Paul wrote to the Romans, "For we know that the Law is Spiritual..."

Christ fulfilled the law by being the Son of Man and being the only Man who kept the law, spirit and letter, completely and perfectly and then died.

You quote Rom 3:31 " Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law."

Yes, we establish the law, but in what way. Paul clarifies what he is saying here in Chapter 7:

Or do you not know, brethren (for I am speaking to those who know the law), that the law has jurisdiction over a person as long as he lives? 2 For the married woman is bound by law to her husband while he is living; but if her husband dies, she is released from the law concerning the husband. 3 So then, if while her husband is living she is joined to another man, she shall be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from the law, so that she is not an adulteress though she is joined to another man. 4 Therefore, my brethren, you also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ, so that you might be joined to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. 5 For while we were in the flesh, the sinful passions, which were aroused by the Law, were at work in the members of our body to bear fruit for death. 6 But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.
7 What shall we say then? Is the Law sin? May it never be! On the contrary, I would not have come to know sin except through the Law; for I would not have known about coveting if the Law had not said, “ You shall not covet.†8 But sin, taking opportunity through the commandment, produced in me coveting of every kind; for apart from the Law sin is dead.

The Law is not sin and we establish this through faith... that the Law is perfect and holy and we cannot hope, as sinful people, to fulfill it. This is what faith says... I am a sinner and cannot keep God's holy law... this establishes the Law.

After Paul says that we establish the Law through faith, he points out that this was always the way that God's people were saved... through faith... Paul immediately goes to the context of Abraham acting out of faith.

Faith establishes the Law... but we need to keep in mind what truly does nullify the Law... it's not believing that Christ fulfilled the Law on the cross and we by grace we live in faith... that still establishes the Law's proper context.

No, what nullifies the Law is thinking that it is by keeping it we are made righteous. As Paul said of Abraham:

Romans 4:9 For we say, “ Faith was credited to Abraham as righteousness.†10 How then was it credited? While he was circumcised, or uncircumcised? Not while circumcised, but while uncircumcised; 11 and he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while uncircumcised, so that he might be the father of all who believe without being circumcised, that righteousness might be credited to them, 12 and the father of circumcision to those who not only are of the circumcision, but who also follow in the steps of the faith of our father Abraham which he had while uncircumcised. 13 For the promise to Abraham or to his descendants that he would be heir of the world was not through the Law, but through the righteousness of faith. 14 For if those who are of the Law are heirs, faith is made void and the promise is nullified; 15 for the Law brings about wrath, but where there is no law, there also is no violation.

For if those who are of the Law are heirs, faith is made void and the promise is nullified....

This is why it is imperative for us to walk in the newness of the Spirit rather than in the letter of the Law.

Excellent post!!!


JLB

 

[jasoncran]

So Judaism says! And Judaism has "defined" themselves to death with their 1,600+ definitions of what constitutes work! The Lord only gives us 6.

Deut 4:2 You shall not add to the word which I command you, nor take from it, that you may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you.

Isn’t it ironic how this command (and prophecy) has played out over the centuries? The Jews have added and the Christians have taken away.

as a mechanic. lets say your car breaks down on the shabat. you are young and the ac went bad. do i as a jew sin in that i fix your car on the shabat?

or let say you have allergies and your house ac is broken and the doctor says that its best to have that ac running to filter out the bad stuff. do i fix that on the shabat?

which one of these violates the shabat? as a liberty given christian i can work and it wont matter one iota. you on the other must discern what is proper.

 

[JLB]

John 8:32 wrote -

So it is abolished? How about a date with your wife, I'll come over tonight. When I leave I'll clean all the valuables out of your house and if you protest, look out. Because after all, faith abolishes the law.

I think you would have to speak to Handy's husband first!


JLB

 

[rrowell]

Act 20:6 And we sailed away from Philippi after the days of unleavened bread, and came unto them to Troas in five days; where we abode seven days.
Act 20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.
Act 20:8 And there were many lights in the upper chamber, where they were gathered together.
Act 20:9 And there sat in a window a certain young man named Eutychus, being fallen into a deep sleep: and as Paul was long preaching, he sunk down with sleep, and fell down from the third loft, and was taken up dead.
Act 20:10 And Paul went down, and fell on him, and embracing him said, Trouble not yourselves; for his life is in him.
Act 20:11 When he therefore was come up again, and had broken bread, and eaten, and talked a long while, even till break of day, so he departed.
Act 20:12 And they brought the young man alive, and were not a little comforted.
Act 20:13 And we went before to ship, and sailed unto Assos, there intending to take in Paul: for so had he appointed, minding himself to go afoot.
Act 20:14 And when he met with us at Assos, we took him in, and came to Mitylene.

Paul had arrived in Troas and was there for seven days. One could surmise that he was teaching the brethren there every day, but the scripture does not say so. Anyhoo, on a Saturday evening Paul was preaching to them and continued through until midnight. After the incident with Eutychus, Paul continued to preach until Sunday morning. Let’s investigate…

Good idea, lets investigate... your a day behind man... (I'm not quoting this from the actual bible but from what you quoted above):

Act 20:6 And we sailed away from Philippi after the days of unleavened bread, and came unto them to Troas in five days; where we abode seven days.
Act 20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK, (not the 7th)

Breaking bread is eating a meal, the eucharist is not mentioned. In fact where it is mentioned is here…

Your kidding right? the "eucharist" is not mentioned in the entire Bible?, Breaking bread is in fact partaking the Lords supper, and Paul specifically rebukes "eating a meal" during the Lords Supper:

1 Corinthians 11:17-22 (KJV)
17 Now in this that I declare unto you I praise you not, that ye come together not for the better, but for the worse.
18 For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.
19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.
20 When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper.
21 For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken.
22 What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? What shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not.

 

[JLB]

OK, try that some time with the covenants and restrictions on a land deed. See if the judge rules the covenant concerning the deed null and void because one of the parties died.

What else did Abraham do by faith...

Gen 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

What did Abraham obey that enabled him to ... and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.


It is the same thing Jesus asks us to do in the new covenant!


Which is the point that Handy made at the end of her post.

This is why it is imperative for us to walk in the newness of the Spirit rather than in the letter of the Law.


The Lord told Abraham - Walk before Me and be blameless!

Walk with Me!

Walk in My Presence!

Walk in the Spirit!

Abide in Me, without Me you can do nothing!

For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, THESE are the sons of God!

We have a new divine nature from God, that is empowered by The Spirit.
Our work is to be filled with the Spirit and abide in His presence.

I find that those whose focus is on "keeping the Law" and telling others to do so, these very same people are not "baptized in the Holy Spirit" nor do they put any emphasis on relationship with God.

Just my observation.

Anything that is not of faith is sin!


JLB

 

[rrowell]

Exactly, if the law is nailed to the cross, what is sin? What was nailed to the cross is the note of debt of guilt that is described in Col 2.

I did not write this:
Colossians 2:14 (KJV)
14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;


What exactly do you think the "handwriting of ordinances" was?

People that believe we still operate under the law of Moses and the Prophets have to have TOTAL disregard for this scripture, they have to so as to support their man made doctrine... to do so is a disgrace to our Lord! if the old law was good enough why did he have to die such a horrible death?

The blood of Bulls and Goats didn't get it, it took the perfect lamb and it is atrocious to disregard the Testament he gave is life for, for YOU and ME!

 

[tim-from-pa]

Thanks for all the replies. You all argue your points so well. I think I'm going to have to digest all of this because I do not feel led either way by the Holy Spirit.

Gordon, despite all the debate here, I have this feeling you know what you want --- i.e. to keep the Sabbath. Blessings to you that God opened this up to you. You're just in a quandary over your job,which I suspect why you "do not feel led" and for that I'll pray. I'll pray, God will show a way!

So it is abolished? How about a date with your wife, I'll come over tonight. When I leave I'll clean all the valuables out of your house and if you protest, look out. Because after all, faith abolishes the law.

:biglol I was almost tempted to answer the same way, until I looked back at your post and found it, John. We are surely mature saints, the real dirty-minded ones! View attachment 2626

 

[rrowell]

What "keep the sabbath" camp does not realize is; nailing the law to the cross, abolishing it, vanisheth away etc. does not do is make it useless...

The OT (the law) is our "schoolmaster" it teaches us what brought us to Christ Gal. 3:24 it is to be cherished, it teaches us God says what He means, and means what He said... and how man would not obey it, but there was no salvation for man in it, the blood of bulls and goats could only roll back sin... it tells us how we needed a Savior, a perfect sacrifice for our ignorance and stupidity, and when He should have destroyed us, because He loves us, He gave His only begotten Son... through Him making a better covenant of faith through Christ giving us a better promise, a way of salvation that could only become of enforcement by His Sons DEATH Heb. 9:17 making the "OLD WILL" obsolete Gal. 3:25, and some are STILL to stupid to use it!

Anyone reading this that had a will for their children, then years later made it better, then died and their children take it upon themselves to use the first over the latter would be furious!!!

Imagine how our Lord feels?