Are Negative thoughts Sin?

[gordon777]

In the case of the Galatians, it seems it wasn't the devil, or lust, that was capturing them but false teaching playing on their ignorance of, or lack of confidence in, their "in Christ" spiritual position. They were not trying to be disobedient to God - quite the reverse - but in their ignorance/lack of confidence were being lured into OT Jewish law-keeping.

Wrong again. It is exactly the devil and lust, and the devil beguiles all, through his subtlty, to corrupt us all from the simplicity that is in Christ.

The false apostles appear now, deceitful workers, pretending to be ministers of Christ, and their works and words are sin and unrighteousness, in the name of Christ.




2 Corinthians 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

2 Corinthians 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.








As pointed out, Christ showed how Israel did the works of their father the devil in lusts, ( as all do) as the spirit in man lusts to envy. That is why there are two spirits, one of God, and one of this world which is the god of this world.( 2 Corinthians 4:4.) To not be a child of the devil, is to not be children of wrath, who have their conversation in the lusts of the flesh, unless they know and acknowledge that all evil comes from the devil, as that is the father to all children of wickedness, and that is why God turns us from the power of satan to the power of God, from darkness ( lust) to light( righteousness.)


James 4:5 Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy?

1 John 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.


Ephesians 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.



Acts 26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

 

[gordon777]

When Paul, then, wrote that the Galatian believers had "fallen from grace," he meant only that they had left off the grace-centered dynamic of relating with God for the law-centered dynamic of the Old Covenant and in so doing could not properly benefit from the spiritual liberty and power they had obtained through Christ. By way of analogy: If I have a perfectly good lawnmower in my garage but choose to trim my lawn with a pair of scissors instead, I don't lose my lawnmower, only the benefit it provides in caring for my lawn. So, too, for the Galatian believers. Their attempts to maintain by the flesh the spiritual life and relationship to God that had been given to them in the Spirit cut them off from the benefits they had obtained in/by the Spirit but not from their relationship to God as His children. This is what Paul points out in the beginning of Galatians 3, calling the Galatians foolish for doing so.

Galatians 3:1-3 (NASB)
1 You foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified?
2 This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?
3 Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?

So, the Galatians are another example of born-again believers "going off the rails" a bit, demonstrating that spiritual regeneration does not mean sinless perfection and an inability to sin.

Born again is never shown as being bewitched, and falling from grace.

That is why 2 Peter shows more truly than your own ideas, how that is the error of the wicked, not the same for the born again then, is it, to fall from their own stedfastness...to fall from grace...



2 Peter 3:17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

Galatians 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

 

[gordon777]

Show me from scripture that any pagan gentile ever tried to relate to the God of the Bible by following the law.
Show me from scripture where God said the gentiles were to follow the Law. (other than the ones who chose to live in the Land with the Jews)

Those verses do not exist. It is a christian myth that a gentile can go "back under the Law."

Please note the decision by the apostles in Acts 15, and what prompted that council. Some Jewish believers were saying that in order to be saved, the gentiles had to formally convert to Judaism. Circumcision is the last step in formal conversion.

Acts 15:1
Some men came down from Judea and began teaching the brethren, “Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved."

They were never under the Law to begin with, and Paul worked hard to make sure it stayed that way.

All are concluded under sin, all died in sin, and sin is in the law.


Romans 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Romans 7:1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

 

[gordon777]

So, the Galatians are another example of born-again believers "going off the rails" a bit, demonstrating that spiritual regeneration does not mean sinless perfection and an inability to sin.

Born again, has not done what the Galatians did, nor does a born again do what is old, or what is works of the devil.

The Galatians are not an example of making minor errors, and as examples of belief n Jesus Christ, to be born again, you are adding all of that to scripture.

Instead the Galatians are examples of falling and being bewitched, and instead of seeking to be justified by Christ, were found sinners, which makes Christ the minister of sin for their wicked thoughts and actions.

Here are the verses for sin free and also why their is no ability to sin any longer..



Galatians 2:17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.


1 John 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

1 John 5:17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.
18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
19 And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.
20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.
21 Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen.

 

[D-D-W]

NLT - "And so my judgment is that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. 20 Instead, we should write and tell them to abstain from eating food offered to idols, from sexual immorality, from eating the meat of strangled animals, and from consuming blood. 21 For these laws of Moses have been preached in Jewish synagogues in every city on every Sabbath for many generations."

Those gentiles were not allowed in the synagogues. They knew nothing of the Law. So Peter, Jacob and Paul agreed that Gentile believers needed to only follow those 4 commands: No Idols. No illicit sex. No eating meat from a strangled animal, and no blood.

But then Jacob goes on to say the Law is taught in synagogues everywhere and that is taken to mean that the gentiles should go learn of the God of Israel.

 

[D-D-W]

All are concluded under sin, all died in sin, and sin is in the law.

Sin can also be without the Law:

Romans 2:12
For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without the Law, and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law;

 

[gordon777]

Do these false teachers think they can hide what they are ?

Heresy they bring, and through covetting they invent lies.

They cant acknowledge that God delivers us out of all temptations, they speak against it to sway we cant avoid falling at times. But that is their injustice, reserved for judgement. They walk on in the flesh to the lust of uncleanness and are presumptuous, self willed, never afraid to speak evil of dignities. ( they think Peter and other Apostles are all examples of sinning.)

They are warned how they speak great swelling words of vanity, so here they are on forums, never ending for years, morning till night, to allure through the lusts ( sin) of the flesh those who were clean escapes, they promise life but serve corruption ( sin) as they stand against ceasing to commit sin, by belief in the risen Lord Jesus Christ in righteousness..




2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.

2 Peter 2:9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:
10 But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.

2 Peter 2:18 For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.
19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.

 

[gordon777]

Those gentiles were not allowed in the synagogues. They knew nothing of the Law. So Peter, Jacob and Paul agreed that Gentile believers needed to only follow those 4 commands: No Idols. No illicit sex. No eating meat from a strangled animal, and no blood.

But then Jacob goes on to say the Law is taught in synagogues everywhere and that is taken to mean that the gentiles should go learn of the God of Israel.

All are under the law, the same as all those mentioned in the Gospel who did nothing of the law, they clearly didnt know anything of the law either. That is how all is equal as told for us, the whole world guilty under the law, until one new person is made.


Luke 11:46 And he said, Woe unto you also, ye lawyers! for ye lade men with burdens grievous to be borne, and ye yourselves touch not the burdens with one of your fingers.

Ephesians 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

 

[gordon777]

Sin can also be without the Law:

Romans 2:12
For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without the Law, and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law;

It is, as without law, as they are all concluded under the law, we are under the law to Christ..


1 Corinthians 9:21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.
..

 

[gordon777]

If you guys were wise, you would be quiet, but maybe you are not too wise.

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

Those gentiles were not allowed in the synagogues. They knew nothing of the Law. So Peter, Jacob and Paul agreed that Gentile believers needed to only follow those 4 commands: No Idols. No illicit sex. No eating meat from a strangled animal, and no blood.

But then Jacob goes on to say the Law is taught in synagogues everywhere and that is taken to mean that the gentiles should go learn of the God of Israel.

I hear you, but you were saying the verse doesn't exist. It actually does. The Apostles were in error of this decision, but nonetheless, the verse does exist.

 

[D-D-W]

All are under the law, the same as all those mentioned in the Gospel who did nothing of the law, they clearly didnt know anything of the law either. That is how all is equal as told for us, the whole world guilty under the law, until one new person is made.

Interesting. The very scriptures you quote say the opposite.

Luke 11:46 And he said, Woe unto you also, ye lawyers! for ye lade men with burdens grievous to be borne, and ye yourselves touch not the burdens with one of your fingers.

That was spoken to Jews who knew the Law. Not to Gentiles at all. Our Lord had very little interaction with any Gentiles.

Ephesians 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

"Strangers from the covenants..." What was that covenant? The Law. They were strangers to it.

 

[D-D-W]

I hear you, but you were saying the verse doesn't exist. It actually does. The Apostles were in error of this decision, but nonetheless, the verse does exist.

How were they in error? This is exactly what Paul went on to teach the rest of his life.

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

How were they in error? This is exactly what Paul went on to teach the rest of his life.

I don't think that Paul continued to avoid meat from strangled animals. The Apostles were in the process of understanding what should and should not be done as True Christians. It took a while for them to get things figured out.

 

[gordon777]

Interesting. The very scriptures you quote say the opposite.

That was spoken to Jews who knew the Law. Not to Gentiles at all. Our Lord had very little interaction with any Gentiles.

"Strangers from the covenants..." What was that covenant? The Law. They were strangers to it.

I guess you dont see how you are answered just yet.

The law of commandments was against all, that is how all were under the law, whether they knew of it, did it or not.

That is why Christ blotted out those ordinances that were against us, nailing them to His cross.


Ephesians 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

Colossians 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;




Colossians 2:20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,

Hebrews 9:1 Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.

Hebrews 9:9 Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;
10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.

Hebrews 9:11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

If you guys were wise, you would be quiet, but maybe you are not too wise.

Ok . . . everyone stop posting.

 

[gordon777]

Ok . . . everyone stop posting.

Ephesians 5:4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

Ephesians 5:4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.

Ooooooooh, I thought this was about wisdom.

 

[gordon777]

Why do you think it is wise to not control the tongue/text, and to be sift to hear instead of swift to speak..


Ecclesiastes 5:2 Be not rash with thy mouth, and let not thine heart be hasty to utter any thing before God: for God is in heaven, and thou upon earth: therefore let thy words be few.

James 1:19 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath:

James 1:26 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

Why do you think it is wise to not control the tongue/text, and to be sift to hear instead of swift to speak..


Ecclesiastes 5:2 Be not rash with thy mouth, and let not thine heart be hasty to utter any thing before God: for God is in heaven, and thou upon earth: therefore let thy words be few.

James 1:19 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath:

James 1:26 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.

You [do] realize that you charged many people with being unwise, don't you?

Curious . . . why are you allowed to do such, but a person like myself can't express a little humor to an extremely rude and insolent assertion?

Have a great day, Gordon!