Bible Study Are We Born With a Sin nature

[JLB]

Did God create me? Yes he did. How did God create me? By empowering my Mother and Father to bring me forth.

Yes, God instituted mankind to reproduce itself. No question.

 

[WIP]

The sin the parents body being passed on to the child.


Parents who have a body that contains sin, can not produce a sinless child, which of course is why Jesus was born of a virgin.


JLB

This seems to support the Catholic premise of Mary's immaculate conception.

 

[stovebolts]

The sin the parents body being passed on to the child.

Please be specific and give me an example. This statement is too vague for me.

 

[stovebolts]

We are spirits, we have a soul, we live in a body that contains sin.

We see things vastly different here…

 

[stovebolts]

Agreed

This is good

 

[stovebolts]

Yes, God instituted mankind to reproduce itself. No question.

So is your earlier statement still an either or question, or do you now agree that it is a both situation.
I other words, God is my creator and He created me by bringing me forth through my Mother and Father

 

[JLB]

This seems to support the Catholic premise of Mary's immaculate conception.

Catholics believe immaculate conception refers to Mary being born sinless, not Jesus.

 

[JLB]

Please be specific and give me an example. This statement is too vague for me.

Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned—
Romans 5:12


knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. Romans 6:6

 

[JLB]

We see things vastly different here…

What is the difference

 

[JLB]

So is your earlier statement still an either or question, or do you now agree that it is a both situation.
I other words, God is my creator and He created me by bringing me forth through my Mother and Father

God directly created Adam and Eve.

Adam was a son of God.

God endowed mankind to reproduce.

The offspring of Adam are called son of man (Adam).


Then God blessed them, and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth.” Genesis 1:28



A fallen human being can not reproduce a son of God, we must be “born again” by the Spirit.


That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. John 3:6

• That which is born of the flesh is flesh

JLB

 

[stovebolts]

Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned—
Romans 5:12


knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. Romans 6:6

Again, this is a broad stroke of the brush. I might ask it this way if I were speaking about Adam.
What was Adams sin and is that sin imputed to us, or do simply experience the effects of Adams sin.

But I am not asking about Adams sin. In this same way, please be specific.

The sin the parents body being passed on to the child.

what sin?
Are you calling death a sin?

 

[JLB]

Again, this is a broad stroke of the brush. I might ask it this way if I were speaking about Adam.
What was Adams sin and is that sin imputed to us, or do simply experience the effects of Adams sin.

We inherit a body of sin; a body that contains sin.

 

[JLB]

what sin?
Are you calling death a sin?

The sin that dwells in every human body since Adam.


Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life.
Romans 5:18

• one man’s offense judgment came to all men,

But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. Romans 7:23





JLB

 

[stovebolts]

What is the difference

I see us as having two souls within our body.
We have an earthy soul (created in the image of the world.. I.e. dust) and we have a godly soul which is wrapped in conflict with our animal soul within our body. (God breathed into Adam and he became a living soul. As well as Jeremiah 1:5 and Ephesians 1:4-6.
The soul expresses itself in five ways. But that is another topic.

 

[stovebolts]

We inherit a body of sin; a body that contains sin.

Again, what sin? Please be specific.

 

[stovebolts]

A fallen human being can not reproduce a son of God, we must be “born again” by the Spirit.

First, it’s an assumption Adam and Eve did not have children before the fall. They were told to be fruitful and multiply. Would this not have been their first sin had they not obeyed?

Second, you would have to believe that the Nephelim were fallen angels. I know that you and others do believe this, and I fully understand why you and others believe this. I’m really not interested in days, weeks and months of rehashing that topic. I’m pretty set in my belief on this matter so needless debate would not be entertaining to me.

Also, God called Israel His son. Thus, Israel is the son of God, not to be mistaken for The Son of God, Jesus.

The idea of being born again is found within OT scripture and was not foreign to Jewish thought well before Jesus came on the scene.. As one reads, studies, meditates and prays scripture, their mind is transformed, and thus are reborn. In Jewish thought, baptism also played a role in this. However, do not confuse this with what we have with Jesus. It is not, and it’s not what I am saying.

 

[for_his_glory]

Contex, is always key and the contex of creation is genesis where God having made Adam and Eve declares that it is very good.
Once Adam fell then yes satan is the deciever of nations, but only after the creation week.

I already said that in the OP.

 

[JLB]

Again, what sin? Please be specific.

Sin: sin nature, a body of sin, sinful flesh, the law of sin working in our members.

We inherit from Adam the sin of disobedience.

 

[JLB]

First, it’s an assumption Adam and Eve did not have children before the fall.

So He drove out the man; and He placed cherubim at the east of the garden of Eden, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to guard the way to the tree of life. Now Adam knew Eve his wife, and she conceived and bore Cain, and said, “I have acquired a man from the LORD.”
Genesis 3:24-4:1


Eve bore a son after they were driven out of the garden.

 

[stovebolts]

So He drove out the man; and He placed cherubim at the east of the garden of Eden, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to guard the way to the tree of life. Now Adam knew Eve his wife, and she conceived and bore Cain, and said, “I have acquired a man from the LORD.”
Genesis 3:24-4:1


Eve bore a son after they were driven out of the garden.

Moses does not always go by logical timelines. It is very often the case where what happened is more important than when something happened. Generally, when Moses writes this way he gives an account later, or expects you to put the pieces together. An example I can show you is Abraham and his timeline when he left Ur. Without studying, what looks linear is very far from being a linear timeline.

Let me share Genesis 5, ESV and please notice that Seth is in the image of Adam. There is no mention of either Cain nor Able.

5 This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him; 2 male and female created he them, and blessed them, and called their name [a]Adam, in the day when they were created. 3 And Adam lived a hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth: 4 and the days of Adam after he begat Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters. 5 And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.

An argument could be made that both Cain and Able were alive and well when the fall occurred.

Also, back in Genesis 3, Adam calls his wife Eve, which means mother of the living.

Our essence comes from our Mother. Death came through Adam. As a result, our identity comes from our Father.

Regarding the need to be born again as you’ve described, do infants either inside or outside the womb require to be born again to enter Gods presence if their lives are cut short by either natural or unnatural circumstances which causes early death?