Are We Lost Without A Church?

[GodsGrace]

Of course. the "church" has nothing to do with being Born again, other than possibly providing a witness that the Holy Spirit uses to Convict a person of their SIN and assist in leading the person to repentance, and calling upon God.

In come case the "church" teaches GROSS ERROR, and can lead a person AWAY from salvation (as in the case of Roman Catholicism, Jehova's Witness, Mormonism, Campbellite Church of Christ, etc.).

WHEN a person is Born Again of the Holy SPirit, then they become "the church", along with other born again Christians.

The Church is the Body of Christ.
The church is the institution.

I agree with your first paragraph and also that some churches teach error - but, of course, to them it doesn't seem like error.

As to Catholicism...that denomination is not in the same category as the JWs, Mormonism, and maybe even Campbellite Church of Christ but I'm not familiar with them at all.

If it were not for the CC there wouldn't be any church today. That church, which was the universal and only church after the 1st century, kept all the heresies at bay. If you believe in the Trinity and that Jesus is God, you can thank the CC.

I don't agree with all their doctrines, but to put them in the same class as the JWs is not correct.

 

[GodsGrace]

Our mortal body will be “made alive” at the resurrection of the dead in Christ; at His coming.

For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming. 1 Corinthians 15:21-22


Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. For he who has died has been freed from sin. Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him. For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. Romans 6:3-12


Maybe you didn’t read far enough.

• Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts.

Sin is not “removed” from our physical body, however we have the power to “rule” over the sin that is in our mortal bodies, rather than the sin “ruling and reigning“ over us to bring us into bondage to it’s lustful cravings.

Sin remains in our “mortal” body until we die and are raised incorruptible, at His Coming.


Here’s how we are instructed to exercise or authority over the sin that dwells in our bodies.


And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. Romans 6:13

We have a choice, we must choose to use our mind to reckon ourselves “to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.”


When we are resurrected from the dead, at His coming, we will have bodies that are incorruptible, which means they will not die because its has no sin in it. This is in the future, at His coming.


So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption. It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power. It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
1 Corinthians 15:42-44


At His coming; at the last trumpet



Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption. Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.” 1 Corinthians 15:50-54


The resurrection of the dead in Christ is yet future, and occurs at His coming.


For now, we are to reckon ourselves dead to sin, and to not present our members as instruments of unrighteousness to commit sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God.


I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness. Romans 6:19


Our physical body is weak because of the sin that dwells in it, “so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.”


We must use our minds, not to dwell on the things of the earth but set our minds to think on godly things, so our minds will be an ally with our spirit that is born again and has a new nature, and is empowered and led by the Spirit of God, rather than an ally of our flesh that is opposed to the desires of the Spirit.


I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish.
Galatians 5:16-17


At the end of the proverbial day, those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh: have rendered the flesh incapable of ruling and reigning over us to make us its slave.


And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. Galatians 5:24-25


It’s a choice we all must make, each and everyday.


Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. Romans 8:12-13

• For if you live according to the flesh you will die;
• but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

JLB

Very good post!
Well said.

 

[GodsGrace]

While I’m waiting for a scripture that says the 10 Commandments are written on our heart, I will ask again the question which you didn’t bother to answer, which is not like you. I have always enjoyed our conversations.


Do you believe the Church is to observe these Sabbath commandments from the law of Moses?





Then he said to them, “This is what the Lord has said: ‘Tomorrow is a Sabbath rest, a holy Sabbath to the Lord. Bake what you will bake today, and boil what you will boil; and lay up for yourselves all that remains, to be kept until morning.’ ” So they laid it up till morning, as Moses commanded; and it did not stink, nor were there any worms in it. Then Moses said, “Eat that today, for today is a Sabbath to the Lord; today you will not find it in the field. Six days you shall gather it, but on the seventh day, the Sabbath, there will be none.”
Now it happened that some of the people went out on the seventh day to gather, but they found none. And the Lord said to Moses, “How long do you refuse to keep My commandments and My laws? See! For the Lord has given you the Sabbath; therefore He gives you on the sixth day bread for two days. Let every man remain in his place; let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.” So the people rested on the seventh day. Exodus 16:23-30



And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, “Speak also to the children of Israel, saying: Surely My Sabbaths you shall keep, for it is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the Lord who sanctifies you. You shall keep the Sabbath, therefore, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people. Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh is the Sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
Exodus 31:12-15


Then Moses gathered all the congregation of the children of Israel together, and said to them, “These are the words which the Lord has commanded you to do: Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh day shall be a holy day for you, a Sabbath of rest to the Lord. Whoever does any work on it shall be put to death. You shall kindle no fire throughout your dwellings on the Sabbath day.”Exodus 35:1-3



Now while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering sticks on the Sabbath day. And those who found him gathering sticks brought him to Moses and Aaron, and to all the congregation. They put him under guard, because it had not been explained what should be done to him.
Then the Lord said to Moses, “The man must surely be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him with stones outside the camp.” So, as the Lord commanded Moses, all the congregation brought him outside the camp and stoned him with stones, and he died. Numbers 15:32-36



And on the Sabbath day two lambs in their first year, without blemish, and two-tenths of an ephah of fine flour as a grain offering, mixed with oil, with its drink offering— this is the burnt offering for every Sabbath, besides the regular burnt offering with its drink offering. Numbers 28:9-10




JLB

If someone feels they should worship on the Sabbath, then so be it.

The difference I see between the Sabbath and the other 9 commandments is this:
The 9 commandments are moral laws.
Keeping the Sabbath is a ceremonial law.

This is the conclusion I have come to because I also have been confused as to this 3th commandment believing, in fact, that it is a commandment like the other 9 -- but actually, it is not.

 

[GodsGrace]

JLB can I please get a one line reply ARE THE TEN COMMANDMENTS WRITTEN ON OUR MINDS AND HEARTS or NOT? Because if you deny, I wish to say nothing more , it's then between you and Father . But if you agree , which is up to you, I will proceed with my questions.
The doctrine of Saved by Grace alone is taught only by one man in the entire Bible . Nobody else taught . The same man ( the thirteenth apostle) also taught The Law of God is dead to a Christian which you only quoted ( and I disagree that with my heart and soul ).
All these are very serious topics concerning the very doctrine of the Living God of the Universe . So would appreciate a brief and succinct response sir ?

What I find very odd is that the Early Fathers (theologians) turned the day to be observed from Saturday to Sunday to honor the day of the resurrection.

However, they kept the TEN commandments.
I believe this causes conflict in the church (small c).

Maybe we should just stop calling it the Sabbath which means the 7th day in the O.T. (Saturday)....
and start calling whatever day one worships The Day Of Rest.
??

 

[Bob Carabbio]

If someone feels they should worship on the Sabbath, then so be it.

The difference I see between the Sabbath and the other 9 commandments is this:
The 9 commandments are moral laws.
Keeping the Sabbath is a ceremonial law.

This is the conclusion I have come to because I also have been confused as to this 3th commandment believing, in fact, that it is a commandment like the other 9 -- but actually, it is not.

The "Sabbath" is no longer a "Day" of rest. It's now a PERSON in whom we rest every day. So it IS a real commandment, which comes AGAINST church systems that teach the salvation is by Jesus AND our own filthy works.

 

[GodsGrace]

The "Sabbath" is no longer a "Day" of rest. It's now a PERSON in whom we rest every day. So it IS a real commandment, which comes AGAINST church systems that teach the salvation is by Jesus AND our own filthy works.

I agree that Jesus is our rest.
But if it's a real commandment, as you put it,,,,
are we lost if we don't attend a church?
I don't break commandments - but it seems to me we Christians sure break that one.

As to our filthy works...
Our works are not filthy.
Jesus is going to judge us on our works...
and every writer in the N.T. stated that good deeds are necessary.

Mathew 5:17-20 Jesus made the law even stricter:
17“Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. 18“For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19“Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

20“For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.

21“You have heard that the ancients were told, ‘YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT MURDER’ and ‘Whoever commits murder shall be liable to the court.’ 22“But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; and whoever says to his brother, ‘You good-for-nothing,’ shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever says, ‘You fool,’ shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell. 23“Therefore if you are presenting your offering at the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you, 24leave your offering there before the altar and go; first be reconciled to your brother, and then come and present your offering. 25“Make friends quickly with your opponent at law while you are with him on the way, so that your opponent may not hand you over to the judge, and the judge to the officer, and you be thrown into prison. 26“Truly I say to you, you will not come out of there until you have paid up the last cent.

27“You have heard that it was said, ‘YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY’; 28but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29“If your right eye makes you stumble, tear it out and throw it from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 30“If your right hand makes you stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to go into hell.


Galatians 6:9
9And let us not grow weary of doing good, for in due season we will reap, if we do not give up.

Hebrews 10:24
24And let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works,

Titus 2:7-8
7in all things show yourself to be an example of good deeds, with purity in doctrine, dignified,
8sound in speech which is beyond reproach, so that the opponent will be put to shame, having nothing bad to say about us.

 

[daninthelionsden]

The laws and commandments of the COVENANT.

The COVENANT the Lord made with Abraham, in which the law of Moses was temporarily added, and the became the NEW COVENANT.


Abraham walked with God and obeyed His commandments and laws, 430 years before Moses law.

because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws.”
Genesis 26:5


Abraham learned them by faith.


Abraham learned them directly from God Himself, as he walked before Him in His Presence.


Read Genesis 17:1






JLB

Amen. It is about a relationship with God. He will write His law on our hearts as He reveals it to each one of us through His Holy Spirit. Eventually, throughout time eternal, we will be obeying all His laws.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

I agree that Jesus is our rest.

Good - we rest from our "Works" in HIm. Our works are NOT Salvific. We are saved by FAITH, end even THAT is God's gift to us.

But if it's a real commandment, as you put it,,,,
are we lost if we don't attend a church?

Church attendance in one respect has nothing to do with it. We're NOT saved by going to Church, we're saved by FAITH in the SIN OFFERING of Jesus on the cross. Going to Church Can help get you on the right path. and isolating yourself from other Christians makes you WEAK in the faith.

I don't break commandments -

That's probably not even true, since you're human.

As to our filthy works...
Our works are not filthy.

They are if you think they have anything to do with Saving you. That you WOULD DARE to try to ADD your works to the FINISHED work of Jesus on the cross is pure foolishness. Your righteousness is nothing but Filthy rags (Isa 64:6) in His sight. That's why you need a SAVIOR.

Jesus is going to judge us on our works...

But not for salvation - only reward in heaven.

and every writer in the N.T. stated that good deeds are necessary.

And James makes it clear that IF your are Born Again by FAITH, then the natural RESULT of that will be "Good Works".

SO - Salvation is BY FAITH NOT OF WORKS (Eph 2:8,9) but When you're born again, one result of that WILL BE Good works, which don't SAVE, but are simply the natural result of BEING saved.

 

[GodsGrace]

Good - we rest from our "Works" in HIm. Our works are NOT Salvific. We are saved by FAITH, end even THAT is God's gift to us.

Church attendance in one respect has nothing to do with it. We're NOT saved by going to Church, we're saved by FAITH in the SIN OFFERING of Jesus on the cross. Going to Church Can help get you on the right path. and isolating yourself from other Christians makes you WEAK in the faith.

That's probably not even true, since you're human.

They are if you think they have anything to do with Saving you. That you WOULD DARE to try to ADD your works to the FINISHED work of Jesus on the cross is pure foolishness. Your righteousness is nothing but Filthy rags (Isa 64:6) in His sight. That's why you need a SAVIOR.

But not for salvation - only reward in heaven.

And James makes it clear that IF your are Born Again by FAITH, then the natural RESULT of that will be "Good Works".

SO - Salvation is BY FAITH NOT OF WORKS (Eph 2:8,9) but When you're born again, one result of that WILL BE Good works, which don't SAVE, but are simply the natural result of BEING saved.

Every denomination I know of believes we're saved by faith. This is what Isaiah is about, our works don't save us, faith does.

I misspoke about my not breaking the commandments. I should say that I Try not to break them, but yes, no one is sinless.

Our faith does produce good works, but those that speak as you do make it seem as though good deeds/works are not even necessary.

Do you believe good deeds are necessary AFTER salvation?

How do you understand John 5:28-29?

sorry, can't post it...

 

[JLB]

They are if you think they have anything to do with Saving you. That you WOULD DARE to try to ADD your works to the FINISHED work of Jesus on the cross is pure foolishness. Your righteousness is nothing but Filthy rags (Isa 64:6) in His sight. That's why you need a SAVIOR.

Our righteousness was as filthy rags before we were "In Christ".


Now we can practice righteousness, because our motives and desires as well as our actions come from the wellspring of righteousness that dwells within us; He is our righteousness, as we are one spirit with Him.


Now we can truly practice righteousness.


Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 1 John 3:7






JLB

 

[Rajesh Sahu]

If you show me where it says the 10 commandments are written on our heart, then I will give you my answer.


Isnt it a commandment not to add to the word of God or take away from His word?




JLB

Let us consider Luke 10 :25 -28
On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”
26 “What is written in the Law?” Jesus replied. “How do you read it?”
27 He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’ and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’
28 “You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “Do this and you will live.”

From above passage Jesus is certainly referring to " Love the Lord your God Commandment as( part of ) The Law. This, Moses repeats to Children of Israel in repetition of Law ( deuteronomy) book (Deut. 6 :4 ) , so most certainly that part of Law is written on our hearts and minds by Father God Himself since Jesus declares in Mattthew 5:18 , that even the least part of the Law cannot die , even if the universe itself crashes and burns and dies ( my paraphrased words of Matthew 5:18)
These are Jesus's actual words in Matthew 5:18:
For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.
So Jesus is making it abundantly clear even the LEAST part of the Law cannot go. It is simply impossible .
Now, it remains to be seen on the day of Judgment which all Law was written by Father God on our hearts and minds .
One thing is for sure it just cannnot die. Not even one thousandth part of the Law says Jesus in Matthew 5:18.
Since Jesus never taught we are under Grace, I'm terrified for all Chrsitians who believe we are no longer under Law but Grace . To suggest God's Law is now dead ( we are under "Grace" which God the son never taught) , is a most dangerous thing to do. It pits us directly against the fury of God . Yet Paul did it. Why?
I'm glad we are discussing this , because while we were debating, you mentioned Galatians 6:2
where Paul says "Carry each other's burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the Law of Christ."
My question is what is the Law of Christ ? I never knew Jesus gave us a Law .

And what Jesus tells the teacher of the Law to do TO INHERIT ETERNAL life in Luke 10 :28 , He taught us again in Matthew 22:37-40 ( and yet again in Matthew 7:12), and also REVEALED that was HOW we are able to fulfill the entire Law.....not by killing it as Paul did...but by Loving God and other humans as ourselves . Finally that was also the ONLY CRITERION He used on the day of judgment ( Matthew 25:31-46) ....ACTS OF LOVING COMPASSION. No grace was shown to anyone ( Christians included ) who did not give grace to others in their lifetime . Thus the doctrine of saved by grace alone taught by Paul came to a horrible end and failure on the final day when NO GRACE was accepted except WORKS of Loving---kindness . No other criterion was used by Judge Jesus Christ as He condemned many on that day ( the Goats)
So why is Pauline doctrine of Saved By Grace even taught when its NOT going to work on the last day ? ( Matthew 25:31-46) promises none other than Christ Himself huh?
And again , what is this " LAW OF CHRIST" I'm totally oblivious to, that Paul mentions in Galatians 6:2? Can anybody please enlighten me?

By the way JLB I simply adore these words of Paul in 2 Corinthians 12:16 . To me they're his crowning glory
" But be that as it may, I did not burden you myself; NEVERTHELESS CRAFTY FELLOW THAT I AM , I TOOK YOU IN BY DECEPTION"
( 2 Corinthians 12:16 NASB )

 

[GodsGrace]

Let us consider Luke 10 :25 -28
On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”
26 “What is written in the Law?” Jesus replied. “How do you read it?”
27 He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’ and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’
28 “You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “Do this and you will live.”

From above passage Jesus is certainly referring to " Love the Lord your God Commandment as( part of ) The Law. This, Moses repeats to Children of Israel in repetition of Law ( deuteronomy) book (Deut. 6 :4 ) , so most certainly that part of Law is written on our hearts and minds by Father God Himself since Jesus declares in Mattthew 5:18 , that even the least part of the Law cannot die , even if the universe itself crashes and burns and dies ( my paraphrased words of Matthew 5:18)
These are Jesus's actual words in Matthew 5:18:
For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.
So Jesus is making it abundantly clear even the LEAST part of the Law cannot go. It is simply impossible .
Now, it remains to be seen on the day of Judgment which all Law was written by Father God on our hearts and minds .
One thing is for sure it just cannnot die. Not even one thousandth part of the Law says Jesus in Matthew 5:18.
Since Jesus never taught we are under Grace, I'm terrified for all Chrsitians who believe we are no longer under Law but Grace . To suggest God's Law is now dead ( we are under "Grace" which God the son never taught) , is a most dangerous thing to do. It pits us directly against the fury of God . Yet Paul did it. Why?
I'm glad we are discussing this , because while we were debating, you mentioned Galatians 6:2
where Paul says "Carry each other's burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the Law of Christ."
My question is what is the Law of Christ ? I never knew Jesus gave us a Law .

And what Jesus tells the teacher of the Law to do TO INHERIT ETERNAL life in Luke 10 :28 , He taught us again in Matthew 22:37-40 ( and yet again in Matthew 7:12), and also REVEALED that was HOW we are able to fulfill the entire Law.....not by killing it as Paul did...but by Loving God and other humans as ourselves . Finally that was also the ONLY CRITERION He used on the day of judgment ( Matthew 25:31-46) ....ACTS OF LOVING COMPASSION. No grace was shown to anyone ( Christians included ) who did not give grace to others in their lifetime . Thus the doctrine of saved by grace alone taught by Paul came to a horrible end and failure on the final day when NO GRACE was accepted except WORKS of Loving---kindness . No other criterion was used by Judge Jesus Christ as He condemned many on that day ( the Goats)
So why is Pauline doctrine of Saved By Grace even taught when its NOT going to work on the last day ? ( Matthew 25:31-46) promises none other than Christ Himself huh?
And again , what is this " LAW OF CHRIST" I'm totally oblivious to, that Paul mentions in Galatians 6:2? Can anybody please enlighten me?

By the way JLB I simply adore these words of Paul in 2 Corinthians 12:16 . To me they're his crowning glory
" But be that as it may, I did not burden you myself; NEVERTHELESS CRAFTY FELLOW THAT I AM , I TOOK YOU IN BY DECEPTION"
( 2 Corinthians 12:16 NASB )

What is the Law?

Sometimes we understand words differently.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Our righteousness was as filthy rags before we were "In Christ".


Now we can practice righteousness, because our motives and desires as well as our actions come from the wellspring of righteousness that dwells within us; He is our righteousness, as we are one spirit with Him.


Now we can truly practice righteousness.


Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 1 John 3:7






JLB

But if you Think YOUR RIGHTEOUSNESS contributes to your salvation, then you're playing in the Galatian church issue, where Paul wasn't sure they were even "Christians" any more.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Every denomination I know of believes we're saved by faith.

But plenty of denominations teach that it has to be FAITH PLUS WORKS.

This is what Isaiah is about, our works don't save us, faith does.

I misspoke about my not breaking the commandments. I should say that I Try not to break them, but yes, no one is sinless.

Our faith does produce good works, but those that speak as you do make it seem as though good deeds/works are not even necessary.

Do you believe good deeds are necessary AFTER salvation?

"Good works" are the NATURAL RESULT of being saved, but NOT a contributor to it. As James points out, if you SAY you have "FAITH", but what you CALL FAITH produces nothing in the way of God works, then your FAITH isn't FAITH at all. As Spurgeon put it: A "Faith" that doesn't CHANGE a person, won't SAVE them either.

How do you understand John 5:28-29?

John 5 is OLD TESTAMENT. And since NOBODY DOES GOOD, then the question is academic. It Just points out the need for a SAVIOR, since NO HUMAN will make it on their own merits.

 

[Elihoenai]

Jesus was born under the Old Covenant.
I was born, and reborn under the NEW Covenant.
Thanks be to God, as I have no room for sacrificial goats and bulls in my apartment.

Matthew 8:4 King James Version

4 And Jesus saith unto him, See thou tell no man; but go thy way, shew thyself to the priest, and offer the gift that Moses commanded, for a testimony unto them.

True Disciples practice everything instructed from Genesis to Revelation with Total Devotion.

 

[Hopeful]

Matthew 8:4 King James Version

4 And Jesus saith unto him, See thou tell no man; but go thy way, shew thyself to the priest, and offer the gift that Moses commanded, for a testimony unto them.

True Disciples practice everything instructed from Genesis to Revelation with Total Devotion.

A double minded man may try to live under two separate covenants.
I choose the one that can free me from sinning.

 

[JLB]

On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”
26 “What is written in the Law?” Jesus replied. “How do you read it?”
27 He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’ and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’
28 “You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “Do this and you will live.”

Amen.

 

[JLB]

From above passage Jesus is certainly referring to " Love the Lord your God Commandment as( part of ) The Law.

So you believe the command to love the Lord your God originated with Moses?

 

[daninthelionsden]

Matthew 8:4 King James Version

4 And Jesus saith unto him, See thou tell no man; but go thy way, shew thyself to the priest, and offer the gift that Moses commanded, for a testimony unto them.

True Disciples practice everything instructed from Genesis to Revelation with Total Devotion.

When the Jews rebuild their Temple in Jerusalem soon, which High Priest will you answer to? Their High Priest here on Earth or Christ the High Priest above all? Do you plan to go there(Temple) and offer animal sacrifices?

 

[Rajesh Sahu]

So you believe the command to love the Lord your God originated with Moses?

No, it originated from Father God ----who is love 1 John 4,8 ----- Moses was just a postman, a messenger if you will, carrying that message to Israel from God.
In 5:17-18, Matthew 22:37-40, Matthew 7:12, Luke 10:28, Mathew 7:21, Mark 3:35, Luke 6:36-38, Matthew 25:31-46, 1 John 4:8,16 lies the entire message of the Bible. Everything spoken of in the Bible right down till the judgment, and till the New Jerusalem comes down ( and the crucial question for many, who will be saved and who will not be saved), revolves around these verses-- in my humble opinion.
"We will get on the last day what we gave to others" was then the perfect justice spawned, established, and delivered by the Holy Trinity. Keeping that vital salvation requirement Jesus repeatedly taught/ warned/ cautioned us to learn to Love God and all other human beings.
Once a Christian truly understands the depth of this message they will have only love and blessings for others, as God and the Lord Jesus wanted ( and taught).
Submitted with hope and love. Because I genuinely believe it's getting a tad late in the day brother JLB for ( most) Churches to change the teachings they have been teaching for the last 500 years--- even as the last time has descended on mankind and the promised judgment has now been initiated. Can only pray to the Father for compassion and mercy on all /\
Raj
"Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful.
“Do not judge, and you will not be judged.
Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned.
Forgive, and you will be forgiven.
Give, and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together, and running over will be poured into your lap.
For with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you!”
(Luke 6: 36-38)