Are We Lost Without A Church?

[GodsGrace]

In a different thread Walpole said this:

I'm hardly the knowledgeable one!

Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus is not only a Catholic belief, as the progenitors of Protestantism also believed and taught it...

"For outside the Christian Church, there is no truth, no Christ, and no salvation. - Martin Luther, Sermon for the Early Christmas Service; Luke 2:15-20 (1521-1522). Luther's Works, American Ed., Hans J. Hillerbrand, Helmut T. Lehmann ed., Philadelphia, Concordia Publishing House/Fortress Press, 1974, ISBN 0-8006-0352-4 (Sermons II), vol. 52:39-40

"...beyond the pale of the Church, no forgiveness of sins, no salvation can be hoped for." - John Calvin, Institutes, Book IV, Ch 1:4

We were discussing Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus...
It means that without a church (small c) no one can be saved.

As you note, Martin Luther believed the same, as did John Calvin.

The Catholic Church is famous for this statement.

This is a good article regarding the history and progression of thought of this phrase.
It was translated by google - hope it's OK. (not proof read by me).
----that wouldn't come through translated.
Good ole' Wikipedia to the rescue.

Can we be saved without a church?
Why?

Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[jasonc]

In a different thread Walpole said this:



We were discussing Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus...
It means that without a church (small c) no one can be saved.

As you note, Martin Luther believed the same, as did John Calvin.

The Catholic Church is famous for this statement.

This is a good article regarding the history and progression of thought of this phrase.
It was translated by google - hope it's OK. (not proof read by me).
----that wouldn't come through translated.
Good ole' Wikipedia to the rescue.

Can we be saved without a church?
Why?

Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I believe the reformed still say that .my church .let me look .

 

[jasonc]

yes the arp does say it .wcf of 1648 and the recent have it ,changes are not in that area .

 

[jasonc]

chapter 25

 

[GodsGrace]

chapter 25

Do you have a paragraph and a book number?

 

[jasonc]

yup my church does.

Confession-of-Faith | The Associate Reformed Presbyterian Church

arpchurch.org

 

[jasonc]

Do you have a paragraph and a book number?

yup my church does.

Confession-of-Faith | The Associate Reformed Presbyterian Church

arpchurch.org

hyper link ,its a pdf,same chapter and that is a really new one ,2000s.church hierarchy .

 

[Walpole]

Your OP is based on a false premise.


Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus ≠ Outside a church there is no salvation

Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus = Outside the Church there is no salvation

Big difference.

 

[Tessa]

Going to church never saved anyone
The pharisees went to the temple.
You can worship God anywhere. Only Jesus can save. What is church? Where is Iit? Who is it?

 

[jasonc]

Going to church never saved anyone
The pharisees went to the temple.
You can worship God anywhere. Only Jesus can save. What is church? Where is Iit? Who is it?

the body of Christ ,need to be part of it

 

[Tessa]

the body of Christ ,need to be part of it

But if a church is blatantly wrong we should not be partakers of their sins.

 

[jasonc]

But if a church is blatantly wrong we should not be partakers of their sins.

my link ,chapter 25 says that .

however ,unless you really can't find one that's likely not an excuse to stay home .
plenty of churches exist,perfect ?no

 

[Tessa]

my link ,chapter 25 says that .

however ,unless you really can't find one that's likely not an excuse to stay home .
plenty of churches exist,perfect ?no

I agree mo perfect church exists. But many are not following Christ. Adiltery, active homolsexual leaders, bowing down to statues, being christian for an hour each week, gossiping and causing strife, even violence. That is not christian. If the churches ever open again here I will carry on searching. I am not looking for perfection. I'm liiking for one that loves Gid.

 

[Randy]

In Christ Jesus all things hold together. We are nourished by Him. The body of believers does not give life. I understand those in Him are members of the body of Christ. But I would rather state apart from Jesus you can't be saved rather than apart from the church.

 

[jasonc]

revelation 22.

 

[Papa Zoom]

Jesus alone saves. But we ought to belong to a local body of believers for a number of very good reasons. But it's not what saves us. I haven't been to church (a church building as we the people are the Church) since covid. I was in AZ taking care of mom, going to her local congregation. Now that I'm back in Washington State, I could go to my home local church but I don't feel drawn back there. So I'm looking. Maybe a Home Church group? I don't know. Covid messed things up but my life got messed up before covid.

My "church" is youtube at the moment. Churches here are opening up more and more but you have to register a seat. I don't find that inviting.

In the end, we are not saved by anything or anyone but Christ. That's where I fall.

 

[WIP]

Jesus alone saves. But we ought to belong to a local body of believers for a number of very good reasons. But it's not what saves us. I haven't been to church (a church building as we the people are the Church) since covid. I was in AZ taking care of mom, going to her local congregation. Now that I'm back in Washington State, I could go to my home local church but I don't feel drawn back there. So I'm looking. Maybe a Home Church group? I don't know. Covid messed things up but my life got messed up before covid.

My "church" is youtube at the moment. Churches here are opening up more and more but you have to register a seat. I don't find that inviting.

In the end, we are not saved by anything or anyone but Christ. That's where I fall.

Hey, good to see you posting, Papa! Been a while.

 

[Papa Zoom]

Hey, good to see you posting, Papa! Been a while.

Hi WIP. Yes it has. Probably over a year, maybe two. It's been quite a journey since my wife died but I'm just now starting to settle into a different living situation. So I hope to make regular visits here. God knows I need it. Thanks for the note.

 

[for_his_glory]

We are lost without Christ. The end.

 

[Rajesh Sahu]

Hi WIP. Yes it has. Probably over a year, maybe two. It's been quite a journey since my wife died but I'm just now starting to settle into a different living situation. So I hope to make regular visits here. God knows I need it. Thanks for the note.

Im sorry sir your wife died. May her soul R.I.P
Im in a similar situation. My wif thankfully did not die , but elected to reject me ( divorce). It's like bereavement, and yet not the same. But the Lord drew very close to me after she rejected me. Hopefully we all will fulfill our vows made to God @ time of marriage and never reject our Spouses. God bless everyone ?