Are We Lost Without A Church?

[Rajesh Sahu]

Amos 8:11

Tree of Life Version

​

11 “Behold, days are coming”
—declares my Lord Adonai—
“when I will send a famine on the land
—not a famine of bread
nor a thirst for water,
but of hearing the words of Adonai.[a]


It seems to me that the people who attend churches while knowing that the preacher isn't sanctified, are so hungry for the Word of life that they are prepared to eat a plate full of dust in hope to have only one morsel from the Lord Himself (Matthew 18:20, John 6:63,68). I have a question of the same vein: while every church tauts a cliche "there is none righteous for all have fallen short of the glory of God", where is the congregation of the righteous spoken of in Psalms 1:5?

Amen ?
My prayer is Christians go back to the Word, especially Saving Words of Christ the savior, rather than Churches.

 

[daninthelionsden]

Really don't know how to answer this question.

My kids are with me every weekend, however, my ex-wife has the final say on where they attend church, and she doesn't want them in an episcopal church, which is my chosen church after leaving the Catholic church as a cradle Catholic. So, I haven't been to church in well over three years. The only two churches she will allow are a non-denominational heavy Pentecostal leaning church or a Baptist church. No thanks on either of those churches. I have been to both and they are not for me.

I prefer a liturgical church. She does not. So, we are at an impasse. I just read my Bible at home.

Having been raised in the Episcopal Church, I witnessed much sexual sin there on a par equal to or surpassing any Catholic/Christian Science or any sex cult. My mother was groomed, brainwashed, molested and raped as a teenage girl by Episcopal Clergy. She sexually serviced them even as an adult and even after marrying. I am the illegitimate result of Episcopal Clergy preying on my mother. She tried turning me over to her homosexual/pedophile married priest boyfriend. My half-sister followed in her footsteps and left her husband while pursuing an adulterous relationship with her mentor from Cambridge while she worked to get her PHd so she could be ordained as an Episcopal priestess.
I would never recommend exposing one's kids to the Episcopal Church.

 

[PaulChristensen]

Amen ?
My prayer is Christians go back to the Word, especially Saving Words of Christ the savior, rather than Churches.

Just as a point of interest, Joseph Smith said the same things, and so he gathered a few mates and started up his own "true" church.

 

[Serving Zion]

Have you quit sinning?
A true repentance from sin produces a non-sinner.
Start with that, as "God heareth not sinners." (John 9:31)

You have it all wrong. It is THEIR sin that is the problem.

 

[Serving Zion]

Amen ?
My prayer is Christians go back to the Word, especially Saving Words of Christ the savior, rather than Churches.

That is tragic though. What about this "wherever two or three are gathered in my name I am there in their midst"? Am I to be alone with only squiggles on paper because every church is full of murderers?

 

[Isilwen]

Having been raised in the Episcopal Church, I witnessed much sexual sin there on a par equal to or surpassing any Catholic/Christian Science or any sex cult. My mother was groomed, brainwashed, molested and raped as a teenage girl by Episcopal Clergy. She sexually serviced them even as an adult and even after marrying. I am the illegitimate result of Episcopal Clergy preying on my mother. She tried turning me over to her homosexual/pedophile married priest boyfriend. My half-sister followed in her footsteps and left her husband while pursuing an adulterous relationship with her mentor from Cambridge while she worked to get her PHd so she could be ordained as an Episcopal priestess.
I would never recommend exposing one's kids to the Episcopal Church.

That's horrible! However, this particular church is not like that.

With that said, since it is the only church I will attend, it doesn't look like I will be attending church any time soon.

 

[Elihoenai]

Amos 8:11​

​

Tree of Life Version​

​

​

11 “Behold, days are coming”
—declares my Lord Adonai—
“when I will send a famine on the land
—not a famine of bread
nor a thirst for water,
but of hearing the words of Adonai.[a]


It seems to me that the people who attend churches while knowing that the preacher isn't sanctified, are so hungry for the Word of life that they are prepared to eat a plate full of dust in hope to have only one morsel from the Lord Himself (Matthew 18:20, John 6:63,68). I have a question of the same vein: while every church tauts a cliche "there is none righteous for all have fallen short of the glory of God", where is the congregation of the righteous spoken of in Psalms 1:5?

2 Corinthians 11:13-14 King James Version

13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.

14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

In my experience so-called Christian Churches are actually Satanic Temples dressed in Yeshua Messiah/Jesus Christ clothing. As for the congregation of said Churches, they are enjoying their Sins while having the comfort that they will be forgiven for any Sin they commit.

The question on Psalms 1:5 is what I asked in this post: https://christianforums.net/threads/are-we-lost-without-a-church.85414/post-1614857

No takers on this question yet.

 

[Elihoenai]

Nope. Where are they located?

We haven't found The Church by Messiah/Christ Yeshua/Jesus, that's why we are asking whether any member on these forums have found The Church. It could be that the True Believers meet from house to house rather than in a Church building.

They falsely feel safety in numbers.
If the pastor and elders are dirty tainted men of the flesh, they feel right at home.

Jude 7-8 King James Version

7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

8 Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.

Amen!!!

 

[Hopeful]

You have it all wrong. It is THEIR sin that is the problem.

How long have you been a non-sinner?

 

[Serving Zion]

How long have you been a non-sinner?

What is the purpose of that question? Do you even understand what you are asking?

 

[Serving Zion]

The question on Psalms 1:5 is what I asked in this post: https://christianforums.net/threads/are-we-lost-without-a-church.85414/post-1614857

No takers on this question yet.

Our questions are slightly different, but if you are loading my question into yours I can understand why you would do that.

This is your question:

Does any member on these forums know of "The Church by Messiah/Christ Yeshua/Jesus"?

This is my question:

while every church tauts a cliche "there is none righteous for all have fallen short of the glory of God", where is the congregation of the righteous spoken of in Psalms 1:5?

 

[PaulChristensen]

Luke 6:39 King James Version

39 And he spake a parable unto them, Can the blind lead the blind? shall they not both fall into the ditch?

Amen!!!

Will also rephrase the question slightly: The Church is the one the gates of hell has not prevailed against. Does any member on these forums know of "The Church by Messiah/Christ Yeshua/Jesus"?

Another question:
I have never attended a Church where the Pastor of 5 years or 50 years have not declared that he is Human and a Sinner like everybody else. Why do people attend Churches where the Pastor and Denomination after all these years have not found the solution to Sin? At the same said Pastor declares that he knows Messiah/Christ and has personal relationship with him.

The parable is nothing like people belonging or not belong to a church. It is about a teacher needing to be fully trained before teaching others. If you are using this verse to show that church leaders are blind, leading members who are blind, you are really twisting this Scripture right out of what it really means.

I think you have a total misunderstanding of what church is all about. A good church is more of a fellowship centre where believers are encouraged and supported, than a religious temple.

You sound like the soldier who is out of step with the rest of the platoon but thinks he is actually in step while all the others are out of step!

 

[Hopeful]

What is the purpose of that question? Do you even understand what you are asking?

You wrote that you were praying to find a real church, and I wrote that "God heareth not sinners". (John 9:31).
As you were a prayer, it was necessary to find out if you were even being heard.
If you just keep on committing sin, your prayers are a waste of time.

 

[PaulChristensen]

You wrote that you were praying to find a real church, and I wrote that "God heareth not sinners". (John 9:31).
As you were a prayer, it was necessary to find out if you were even being heard.
If you just keep on committing sin, your prayers are a waste of time.

Oh? So Jesus did not pay the price for all your sins then?
And you are totally sin-free?
Of course, even the most minor sin is transgression of God's moral law and is equal to infracting the whole law as far as God is concerned. So, to tell people that because they sin God won't hear their prayers, you have to be totally sin-free yourself otherwise by the same measure of judgment, God won't hear your prayers either.

Of course, the quote, "God does not hear sinners" was spoken by an unconverted Jewish man before the death and resurrection of Christ, and he directed his comments toward the hypocritical Pharisees. So, a "sinner" in Jewish terms is someone who does not comply with the Law of Moses. But the New Covenant definition a "sinner" is a person who has not yet turned to Christ to have faith in Him.
So, unless your personal righteousness exceeds the blameless righteousness of the Pharisees, you have a pretty big finger pointing back at yourself when you judge others concerning their "sins".

 

[Serving Zion]

You wrote that you were praying to find a real church, and I wrote that "God heareth not sinners". (John 9:31).

That's what you seem to think I have said, but I said only that I want to know where to find the congregation of the righteous when every church is touting a cliche "there is none righteous, no, not one".

As you were a prayer, it was necessary to find out if you were even being heard.

If you just keep on committing sin, your prayers are a waste of time.

Why do I need to tell you again that it is not my sin that is the problem, but theirs?

 

[Rajesh Sahu]

That is tragic though. What about this "wherever two or three are gathered in my name I am there in their midst"? Am I to be alone with only squiggles on paper because every church is full of murderers?

I think we need to gain in Christ knowledge , and the knowledge of the Word as He taught , and then form a Church identical to the one that met at followers' homes after Christ ascended . They were also Christians

 

[Serving Zion]

I think we need to gain in Christ knowledge , and the knowledge of the Word as He taught , and then form a Church identical to the one that met at followers' homes after Christ ascended . They were also Christians

I'm only looking for the fruits. The structure of a church will naturally evolve by the solving of problems as each part does it's own work effectively (Ephesians 4:16).

 

[Rajesh Sahu]

Just as a point of interest, Joseph Smith said the same things, and so he gathered a few mates and started up his own "true" church.

On the flip side Christ disciples met at each others homes after Hesus departed. No point in starting Churchrs just to meet and then uniting in error. Anyway I'm glad I departed from Churches . I didnt want to unite in error of " let's believe and go to heaven " doctrine . That's why I call this my only Church. This website. Its also my last Church . Also picking a cue from Sister wondering I do not wish for anyone to agree with what I share . We must still individually go through judgment handed out by Christ on the last day where He will be dividing us into Sheep and Goats ( Matthew 25:31-46)
On that day Jesus rejected many believers who didnt have works of loving kindness, contrary to 99% churches who teach " one is saved by faith alone". This doctrine was emphatically rejected by the Boss of Churches on the last day

 

[Rajesh Sahu]

I'm only looking for the fruits. The structure of a church will naturally evolve by the solving of problems as each part does it's own work effectively (Ephesians 4:16).

I look for doctrine first . If in my opinion it's not in agreement with what Jesus taught , its Adios / Sayonara to that Church. Although I wish them well

 

[Serving Zion]

I look for doctrine first . If in my opinion it's not in agreement with what Jesus taught , its Adios / Sayonara to that Church. Although I wish them well

That's important, but I think the fruits are more important. Doctrines can be worked through (aka: opening the eyes of the blind) if they have the fruits of the spirit: "love", "peace", "patience", "kindness", "gentleness", "self-control" etc. But if they have the fruits of the flesh, then there's no way to find unity there. IMO, the Bereans prove that by the fact that although they did not have the same doctrines as the Christians, they had the necessary fruits of the spirit to enable them to investigate the scriptures and come into agreement. So there's still the fact that some people do have the fruits of the spirit and are able to be reasoned with, but unfortunately they tend to be scattered among churches where the flesh nature of the brutes tend to persecute every advance of the truth where it is a natural threat to their position.