Arminianism and Calvinism

[Cygnus]

i did GOD spoke to me said NOW or never .i chose now

That must be an interesting story.

 

[Cygnus]

long before the 17th centery
Rom 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
Rom 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
Rom 3:12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
Rom 3:13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
Rom 3:14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
Rom 3:15 Their feet are swift to shed blood:
Rom 3:16 Destruction and misery are in their ways:
Rom 3:17 And the way of peace have they not known:
Rom 3:18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.

We can even go back further to King David:

Psalm 14:1 For the choir director. A Psalm of David. The fool has said in his heart, "There is no God." They are corrupt, they have committed abominable deeds; There is no one who does good. 2 The LORD has looked down from heaven upon the sons of men To see if there are any who understand, Who seek after God. 3 They have all turned aside, together they have become corrupt; There is no one who does good, not even one

 

[reba]

We can even go back further to King David:

Psalm 14:1 For the choir director. A Psalm of David. The fool has said in his heart, "There is no God." They are corrupt, they have committed abominable deeds; There is no one who does good. 2 The LORD has looked down from heaven upon the sons of men To see if there are any who understand, Who seek after God. 3 They have all turned aside, together they have become corrupt; There is no one who does good, not even one

I could not find the Psalm 2 thanks

 

[MCoop]

long before the 17th centery
Rom 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
Rom 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
Rom 3:12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
Rom 3:13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
Rom 3:14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
Rom 3:15 Their feet are swift to shed blood:
Rom 3:16 Destruction and misery are in their ways:
Rom 3:17 And the way of peace have they not known:
Rom 3:18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.

And is why Jesus told Nicodemus one must born again to SEE or ENTER the kingdom of God.. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. John 3: 3-6.

 

[reba]

I still read john 3;16 just like it is written
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

 

[ezra]

That must be an interesting story.

even more iam waiting on using scripture that backs up your claim on who can and can not be saved...also have you ever told your family hey there is a chance God chose you to go to hell i await your response

 

[ezra]

And is why Jesus told Nicodemus one must born again to SEE or ENTER the kingdom of God.. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. John 3: 3-6.

no body denies the spiritual Birth notice he simply said you must be born again note he did not say you been chosen to be born again . the Philippian jailer Good sirs what must i do to be saved ? BELIEVE on the Lord Jesus Christ and what? you shall be saved there is no doubt he chooses us.but its not like a pick and chose who will be and who will not be saved :amen

 

[artful horizon]

Hi PD,
I noticed your signature line.
Have you read Titus 3:5 lately?
If you continue on down to
Titus 3:8-15 and also before
Titus 3:1-2 you'll find that good deeds are very much spoken of here.

We come to Christ and accept Him and we are saved, through no deeds. It is a free gift.
After we accept Christ, we bring glory and honor to Him by doing what Jesus would want us to do. Some call this works -- whatever it is, I do believe we should do as Jesus says.

Sorry, I don't see how my signature quote refers to Titus 3. I am familiar with the whole chapter. Especially the part about quarreling over the law.
Good works don't save us. Yes, I know this. However our regenerated spirit and self in Christ leads to our being gracious and doing good in this world. And that makes all the difference.
If we could work our way to Heaven Jesus' death would have been for no purpose as described in his Gospel teachings.

And let's not forget 1 Timothy 1:9 He who has given us life and has called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his will and the grace which has been given to us in Yeshua The Messiah before the time of the world,

I think it goes back to the warning about not judging on appearances but using righteous judgment. John 7.
I've met those who say they're Christian and they're a real hoot. I've met Christians that are the role model for the calling.
We're not able to say who is or is not in Christ. Not even due to the behaviors of such a one's. God knows. I've got a lot of years ahead of me. My time is now as a Christian. Following the call of the Holy Spirit that indwells me and as we know, leads us to all truth. But we can't be led until we relax our own sense of pride and ego that got us along in this world before we came to Christ.

 

[MCoop]

even more iam waiting on using scripture that backs up your claim on who can and can not be saved...also have you ever told your family hey there is a chance God chose you to go to hell i await your response

You just tell them we all deserve to go to hell

 

[MCoop]

no body denies the spiritual Birth notice he simply said you must be born again note he did not say you been chosen to be born again . the Philippian jailer Good sirs what must i do to be saved ? BELIEVE on the Lord Jesus Christ and what? you shall be saved there is no doubt he chooses us.but its not like a pick and chose who will be and who will not be saved :amen

The result of being born again is belief. It is why Jesus told Nicodemus one must be born again to see the kingdom of God. And yes the election of grace is exactly what it says. Gods choice of bestowing His grace in Christ to those who are recipients of His mercy, that He has chosen according to His will. Faith itself is a gift of a renewed heart via regeneration by Gods Spirit. This is the resurrecting power of Christ that gives life

 

[Cygnus]

even more iam waiting on using scripture that backs up your claim on who can and can not be saved...also have you ever told your family hey there is a chance God chose you to go to hell i await your response

You know..Papa zoom is going to get all over me now...This might appear as a bit nasty....perhaps it is...BUT... YOU are painting a false picture. Why? I actually find your post to be extremely nasty.

But to answer the question..and put it in the actual light and not the deceptive light you painted it....

Everyone ..is destined to Hell. EVERYONE. Do you NOT understand that? God chooses no one for Hell. Hell is justice for human beings. Got it? We are of a fallen race. We all deserve Hell.

God doesn't have to save anyone. God isn't obligated to save anyone.

Fall on your knees and thank God for saving you...for having mercy and compassion on you...because you had no part in your salvation. You didn't quicken yourself...God did. God made you alive in Christ. God chose you...you didn't choose God.

Oh, that's right...You...you...accepted Christ. "You know what God, I think I'll "accept" Jesus today". I'll allow you to wash away my sins with His blood....I'm not a robot.

...sorry Papa zoom. I'm getting tired of people using this type of approach to put down a believer who has an different postion then them.

 

[Cygnus]

You just tell them we all deserve to go to hell

Exactly....and if God decides to save some of those people....people who deserve hell....who are we to argue with God wish.

It would be like saying...Hey God, it's not fair you didn't save everyone. Fair would be NO redemption for anyone.

 

[Jim Parker]

long before the 17th centery
Rom 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
Rom 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
Rom 3:12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
Rom 3:13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
Rom 3:14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
Rom 3:15 Their feet are swift to shed blood:
Rom 3:16 Destruction and misery are in their ways:
Rom 3:17 And the way of peace have they not known:
Rom 3:18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.

Paul uses those verses from Psalms and Ecclesiastes to illustrate that there is no one who has not sinned as Paul states a few verses later at Ro 2:23 " all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God"
Paul's point is not the "total depravity" of man, as Calvinists would have us believe, but, rather, "by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin." (Ro 3:20)

In fact, the Psalms which Paul quotes, state the there ARE righteous people.
Psa 1:5 Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, Nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous.
Psa 1:6 For the LORD knows the way of the righteous, But the way of the ungodly shall perish.
Psa 5:12 For You, O LORD, will bless the righteous; With favor You will surround him as with a shield.
Psa 11:3 If the foundations are destroyed, What can the righteous do?
Psa 11:5 The LORD tests the righteous, But the wicked and the one who loves violence His soul hates.
Psa 32:11 Be glad in the LORD and rejoice, you righteous; And shout for joy, all you upright in heart!
Psa 33:1 Rejoice in the LORD, O you righteous! For praise from the upright is beautiful.
Psa 34:15 The eyes of the LORD are on the righteous, And His ears are open to their cry.
Psa 34:17 The righteous cry out, and the LORD hears, And delivers them out of all their troubles.
Psa 34:19 Many are the afflictions of the righteous, But the LORD delivers him out of them all.

Obviously, there have been those whom the Lord considered righteous.


iakov the fool

 

[artful horizon]

Everyone ..is destined to Hell. EVERYONE. Do you NOT understand that? God chooses no one for Hell. Hell is justice for human beings. Got it? We are of a fallen race. We all deserve Hell.

God doesn't have to save anyone. God isn't obligated to save anyone.

This part is interesting to me. Where is the passage in God's word that says , in the New Testament now, everyone is destined to Hell?

 

[Cygnus]

This part is interesting to me. Where is the passage in God's word that says , in the New Testament now, everyone is destined to Hell?

Romans 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Joh 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.

I hope that helps.

 

[ezra]

You know..Papa zoom is going to get all over me now...This might appear as a bit nasty....perhaps it is...BUT... YOU are painting a false picture. Why? I actually find your post to be extremely nasty.

But to answer the question..and put it in the actual light and not the deceptive light you painted it....

Everyone ..is destined to Hell. EVERYONE. Do you NOT understand that? God chooses no one for Hell. Hell is justice for human beings. Got it? We are of a fallen race. We all deserve Hell.

God doesn't have to save anyone. God isn't obligated to save anyone.

Fall on your knees and thank God for saving you...for having mercy and compassion on you...because you had no part in your salvation. You didn't quicken yourself...God did. God made you alive in Christ. God chose you...you didn't choose God.

Oh, that's right...You...you...accepted Christ. "You know what God, I think I'll "accept" Jesus today". I'll allow you to wash away my sins with His blood....I'm not a robot.

...sorry Papa zoom. I'm getting tired of people using this type of approach to put down a believer who has an different postion then them.

hmmm i simply used your logic it is your view not just anyone can be saved and you reject freewill

Everyone ..is destined to Hell. EVERYONE. Do you NOT understand that? God chooses no one for Hell. Hell is justice for human beings. Got it? We are of a fallen race. We all deserve Hell.

dont think i ever denied this ..DO YOU Understand?

You didn't quicken yourself...God did. God made you alive in Christ. God chose you...you didn't choose God

you never answered my question i asked your adding words to what i said...

I'm getting tired of people using this type of approach to put down a believer who has an different postion then them.

really i never put you down i simply asked a question .. so lets clear the air God does not send folks to hell because he never chose them? is this correct you have been hammering wondering pretty hard ..curious was you forced to get saved? a gun threat a knife or any other type force?
you see you twisted what i said.. here is a refresher the night i got saved the preacher said i will walk down the aisle and back up. if you do not want to go to the altar by yourself. . as i walk back up take my hand and i will walk with you... i heard God speak its now or never i chose the now . yes he made me alive the moment i got saved yes he was drawing me.. yes i was to stubborn unsure what to do by my self.. God did the saving the Holy spirit drew me in.. Jesus paid the price so i could get saved .
i am a straight shooter i say what needs to be said .i do not twist words to say what i think they are saying.. guess what else 5 years later He called into the ministry . i accepted the call just like the night i got saved i said 3 words GOD SAVE ME .

. no bells no whistles . would there be any thing else i can clear up for you. while your putting on the battered belief front... you can hold your own like anyone else . i just used a way to get your attention

 

[Cygnus]

so lets clear the air God does not send folks to hell because he never chose them? i

if you are not elect..you will receive justice...which is Hell.

curious was you forced to get saved? a gun threat a knife or any other type force?

Yes, the force was love. You seem to have a problem with that.

 

[Papa Zoom]

I am not an expert on either Calvinism or Arminianism so my comments could be off. If I misstate a view, it won't be due to a desire to misrepresent. A view is a view is a view. I have one, you have one. We all think ours is the biblical view. We get this idea from reading the Bible and interpreting what we've read. We think "the Bible said" but what we mean is "I inferred this from the text." Even if you disagree with me here you still need to be gracious about it. I'm not trying to lead anyone astray. I'm trying to have a conversation with fellow believers.

Soteriology is the study of salvation and in this case, the doctrine of salvation according to Calvinists and Arminianists. Rather than state our own views, we should be examining the views of both those camps. I think we're supposed to "discuss" those differences (probably with some commentary but not endless arguments).

Also, this being the Theology forum, we should include Biblical passages where appropriate.

I'll have to read up to help with conversations. But, here's this:
http://www.baptistcenter.net/Documents/Journals/JBTM 8.1 Spring11.pdf
http://graceonlinelibrary.org/refor...sm/calvinism-vs-arminianism-comparison-chart/

Endless arguments won't help here. We've been arguing this for 400 years. Gentle conversations, share your thoughts backed with scripture and don't lose your shirts. I may buy a book. ;) Maybe I have one. I have tons of books from Bible college.

 

[artful horizon]

Romans 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Joh 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.

I hope that helps.

Those don't say we deserve Hell.

 

[Cygnus]

Those don't say we deserve Hell.

Then show me a verse that says we don't deserve hell.