Ask any questions about The Great Tribulation in this thread and you will recieve true information about it from me.

[MisterE]

There is NO secret rapture, only resurrection at the second coming, which by and of itself is the greatest judgement of the Beast’s army.

I can see you don't want to seriously discuss these issues. You don't seem to have a good grasp of eschatology, which is what we are discussing.

Thanks for taking the time to respond, I only wished it were of a scholarly level.

I will end it here. God bless you.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

I can see you don't want to seriously discuss these issues. You don't seem to have a good grasp of eschatology, which is what we are discussing.

Thanks for taking the time to respond, I only wished it were of a scholarly level.

I will end it here. God bless you.

I am as serious as a heart attack, it is you who's deceived. This rapture theory is desertation of life and escapism from reality.

 

[Oseas]

The two olive trees are to groups of people. One group being natural Israel (Old Testament) as a remnant according to the election of grace have been saved as in the 144,000 taken from the twelve tribes of Israel that remained faithful to God up to a thousand generations thereafter that remain faithful, 1 Chronicles 16:13-17. The other being Gentiles (New Testament) grafted into the branch by that same grace of God that have been washed in the blood of the Lamb and sealed by His Holy Spirit, John 3:3-7; Romans 10:9, 10; 2 Corinthians 1:22; Romans Chapter 11. The two witnesses have always been those who of faith have stood by God and His law in the Old Testament and those of faith who stand by God and Jesus under the dispensation of grace in the New Testament.

Greetings in Christ JESUS,
for_His_glory
I enjoyed your post. In short:
The Word of GOD is the source of oil - two olive trees - The Old Testament and the New Testament (Hebrews 1:1-3 combined with Matthew 4:4).

In other words, both also are two wings: Revelation 12:13-14: -> 13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is NOURISHED (by the Word of GOD-Old and New Testaments)for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.->Daniel 12:7-13, take a look.

May our Lord GOD bless us and keep us, and give us His protection
Amen

 

[for_his_glory]

Greetings in Christ JESUS,
for_His_glory
I enjoyed your post. In short:
The Word of GOD is the source of oil - two olive trees - The Old Testament and the New Testament (Hebrews 1:1-3 combined with Matthew 4:4).

In other words, both also are two wings: Revelation 12:13-14: -> 13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is NOURISHED (by the Word of GOD-Old and New Testaments)for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.->Daniel 12:7-13, take a look.

May our Lord GOD bless us and keep us, and give us His protection
Amen

Thank you for your reply, but how does Rev 12:13-14 fit with what I posted as I can not read what you posted before and after that verse. All I can see is white lettering I can not read.

 

[Consecrated Life]

The bottom line is that there's only one second coming of Christ, no third, fourth or more comings, and no "secret" coming beforehand - how would it be secret when it accompanies with the sounding of trumpet and shout of an archangel? He won't return separately as the bridegroom and as the king of kings, those two

Right you are, His second coming is for one purpose only to bring Judgement to the earth as He sets His feet on the Mount Of Olives inducing the greatest earthquake the world has ever experienced.
And that is just the beginning.
Once He is on earth to strike Judgement He is not going anywhere anytime soon.
That day He will also be very busy not only establishing justice in the earth , but assuming His rightful role doing exactly what you & I have prayed for Him to do Sitting down as King of the earth on His Holy Hill . "THY KINGDOM COME", to stay awhile by the way .
Here is what is going to be going on that day of His second coming:

Psalm 2:6-9
Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.
I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.

Prior to all that separate & sole mission, His other prophesized separate & sole mission of receiving His church does not involve "coming" to earth at all.
His feet never touching the earth, you could never prove in a court of law that He had "come" at all .
You right , by definition this is not a "second coming to earth" at all
His mission here is all accomplished atmospherically .
His entire purpose & sole mission at that time is to immediately take them away to the place He has "prepared"
He immediately Spirits away His own to a place not on the earth where that day He will be with them and they with Him .
Never getting closer to earth than the atmosphere He does not stick around at all that day.
He immediately takes us "THERE" that day , to be with us

"THERE" not being anywhere near or having anything to do with His coming to the earth.

John 14:3
And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

 

[for_his_glory]

Isaiah writes:

I will rejoice over Jerusalem and take delight in my people; the sound of weeping and of crying will be heard in it no more.
“Never again will there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, or an old man who does not live out his years; the one who dies at a hundred will be thought a mere child; the one who fails to reach a hundred will be considered accursed.

Here you can see children being born and those who die at a 100 years of age.

Mat 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

Luke 20:34 And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage:
Luke 20:35 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:
Luke 20:36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.

When Christ returns on the last day, John 5:28-29; 6:40, those who are Christ own, dead or alive at that time, will be raised up together and then will be changed before we meet Jesus in the air. 1Cor 15:50-58; 1Thessalonians 4:13-18

Isaiah 65:17-19 is speaking about the new heaven and a new Earth after this present heaven and earth passes away, Rev 21:1-8. Infant of days refers to babies who are born, but die shortly after birth. This will not happen in the New Jerusalem according to Rev 21:4.

Isaiah 65:20 there will be no more infant death nor an old man that hath not filled his days as in the resurrection this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality for then we will be like the angels in heaven, 1Cor 15:54; Matthew 20:30.

Before we enter the Millennium after Jesus returns with His army of angels, Rev 19:11-21, we have to be changed into our new glorified bodies, which no one knows what we will be like other than we will be like Christ in His glorified body and be like the angels of God. This all happens before we are caught up to meet Jesus in the air, 1Cor 15:50-58; 1Thess 4:13-18. Matthew 24:29-31 shows us the timing when Christ will return and our resurrection as all of this happens before the Millennium after Christ returns.

I believe the1000 years being a figurative number, not a literal number as in Deuteronomy 7:9; 1Chronicles 16:15; Psalms 50:10; 90:4; 105:8 Ecc 6:6; 7:28; Daniel 5:1; 2 Peter 3:8.

 

[Oseas]

Thank you for your reply, but how does Rev 12:13-14 fit with what I posted as I can not read what you posted before and after that verse. All I can see is white lettering I can not read.

God bless for your interest in my reply, by participating in your comment and interpretation about the two witnesses.
I'm sorry, sister, but allow me in quote my post as a whole in green, as I do now, hope this can help. Here goes my comment as a whole:

Greetings in Christ JESUS,
for_His_glory
I enjoyed your post. In short:
The Word of GOD is the source of oil -two olive trees- The Old Testament and the New Testament (Hebrews 1:1-3 combined with Matthew 4:4).

In other words, both also are two wings: Revelation 12:13-14: -> 13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

14 And to the woman were given two WINGS of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is NOURISHED (by the Word of GOD-Old and New Testaments)for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.->Daniel 12:7-13, take a look.

May our Lord GOD bless us and keep us, and give us His protection
Amen

 

[for_his_glory]

God bless for your interest in my reply, by participating in your comment and interpretation about the two witnesses.
I'm sorry, sister, but allow me in quote my post as a whole in green, as I do now, hope this can help. Here goes my comment as a whole:

Thank you and now I know what you were talking about. Yes, it's all about the living word of God. Not to many understand what the two witnesses are.

 

[MisterE]

I believe the1000 years being a figurative number, not a literal number as in Deuteronomy 7:9; 1Chronicles 16:15; Psalms 50:10; 90:4; 105:8 Ecc 6:6; 7:28; Daniel 5:1; 2 Peter 3:8.

Let's look at these verses you cite.

Dt 7.9 Know therefore that the LORD your God is God; he is the faithful God, keeping his covenant of love to a thousand generations of those who love him and keep his commandments.

Under a Literal, grammatical, historical hermeneutic this is a Hebrew idiom. Not a symbolic or spiritual meaning.

1 Chron 16.15 He remembers his covenant forever, the promise he made, for a thousand generations. Again this is the Hebrew idiom meaning meaning, no end.

Psalm 50.10: for every animal of the forest is mine, and the cattle on a thousand hills. All the ones you have cited so far are literal Hebrew idioms. You are confusing Literal hermeneutics with symbolic or spiritual hermeneutics.

90.4 a thousand years in your sight are like a day that has just gone by, or like a watch in the night. This thousand years is to be taken literally. God dwells in eternal time, not finite time like us. We don't say that God has been around for a really long time because that is confusing eternal time with finite time.

105.8 He remembers his covenant forever, the promise he made, for a thousand generations, notice that forever and thousand generations are used interchangeably in this verse.

Ecc 6.6 even if he lives a thousand years twice over but fails to enjoy his prosperity. Do not all go to the same place? This is just a straight out literal time frame.

7.28 while I was still searching but not finding— I found one upright man among a thousand, but not one upright woman among them all. This is just another straight out literal number.
Dan 5.1 King Belshazzar gave a great banquet for a thousand of his nobles and drank wine with them. This is another Hebrew idiom meaning a very large number. We use the same expressing here in the USA.

2 Pt 3.8 But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. Once again, a thousand years is eternal time compared to finite, created time.

Something tells me you are confused about Hermeneutics. In the literal, historical, grammatical hermeneutics symbols occasionally appear. A symbol/ figurative use does not mean that the literal, historical, grammatical hermeneutics is a false/bad hermeneutics. Just like there are literal, grammatical, historical usage with a symbolic/spiritual/figurative hermeneutics. It is obviously not all or nothing.

 

[MisterE]

Isaiah 65:17-19 is speaking about the new heaven and a new Earth after this present heaven and earth passes away, Rev 21:1-8. Infant of days refers to babies who are born, but die shortly after birth. This will not happen in the New Jerusalem according to Rev 21:4.

In the heaven and new Earth there will only be glorified beings. So there will not be babies or death.

 

[for_his_glory]

Under a Literal, grammatical, historical hermeneutic this is a Hebrew idiom. Not a symbolic or spiritual meaning.

Mat 1:17 So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; and from David until the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ are fourteen generations.

There are 20 generations from Adam to Abraham, plus 42 generations from Abraham to Jesus, and by extrapolating over the 2000 years from Jesus until now it's another 42 generations, which roughly gives us 104 generations that includes all of us today. By this calculation found in scripture we can see a 1000 year reign of Christ here on earth after Jesus returns, as no one knows when that will be, 1000 years can not be a literal number before God ushers down the New Jerusalem.


Tracing back my own ancestry beginning in 1486 as far back as I could get, there have been 9 generations spanning from 1486 unto 1985 when my father died would make it 499 years or nine generations. If it was actually a literal 1000 years here on this present earth before it all passes away, 2Peter 3:10, do you think that God would wait another 1000 years after Christ returns, I don't think so.

 

[for_his_glory]

In the heaven and new Earth there will only be glorified beings. So there will not be babies or death.

Exactly, and no one given in marriage in order to populate the new Earth.

 

[MisterE]

1000 years can not be a literal number before God ushers down the New Jerusalem.

The 1,000 years is called the Millennium, which occurs shortly after the 2nd Coming. Do you see a Millennium taught in Scripture? Are there people in the Millennium in their natural bodies?

 

[Oseas]

Thank you and now I know what you were talking about. Yes, it's all about the living word of God. Not to many understand what the two witnesses are.

Allow me to add more these points:-> Daniel 7:21-> I beheld, and the same horn (the little horn, in my vision the Jewish esoteric and kabbalistic false messiah, enthronized in Jerusalem, spiritually called Sodom and Egypt, a master of Torah, a false Prophet, and will mannifest himself as God-Ezekiel 28:9 combined with 2Thessalonians 2:3-4 and Isaiah 14:13-15) made War with the saints(with the two Candlesticks), and prevailed against them; (as is written in Revelation 11:7-8, and this demonic event will happen in the 2nd half of the last week, last 7 years of the Devil's world, but after END this terrible period of time, 2nd half of the week, will happen a wonderful event: Revelation 11:11-12-->11 The spirit of life from GOD will enter into them, and they stand upon their feet (Hallelujah!); and great fear will fall upon them which see them. 12 And they heard (WE WILL HEAR) a great voice from heaven saying unto them(unto us), Come up hither. And they(and we will ascend up to the 3rd heaven-Luke 20:35-36 among other biblical references) ascended up to heaven in a cloud(cloud? Acts 1:9-11, take a look); and their ENEMIES beheld them. DETAIL: Revelation 11:14-
The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly. (immediately after)

15And the seventh angel sounded;and there were great voices in heaven,saying,The kingdoms OF THIS WORLD are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. (1Corinthians 15:24-28)

16And the four and twenty elders, which sat before GOD on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped GOD,

17Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord GOD Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come(REVELATION 1:7-8); because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.

18And the NATIONS were angry, and thy WRATH is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou should give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and should destroy them which destroy the earth.

19 And the temple of GOD was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

AMEN

 

[for_his_glory]

Oseas I would like to address the little horn in your post.

Daniel 7-8 the little horn/4th beast

The seven heads are that of the Babylonian Empire: (Iraq), Medo - Persian Empire: (Iran), Grecian Empire: (Greece, Turkey, Syria, Egypt), Roman Empire. The ten horns represent the nations the Roman Empire scattered to when the deadly wound was put upon them, Daniel 7:23-25.

These ten nations were the Anglo-Saxons (English), the Franks (French), Suevi (Portuguese), Visigoths (Spanish), Burgundians (Swiss), Alemanni (Germans), Lombards (Italians), Ostrogoths, Heruli, and the Vandals in northern Africa. The last three being Ostrogoths, Heruli, and the Vandals had already been destroyed by the Roman Empire before their deadly wound came in 1798.

Seven remaining nations that still exist today:

Babylonian Empire:
(Iraq) The lion represents the winged lions that guarded the royal places of Babylon.

Medo – Persian Empire:
(Iran) The ribs of the bear are part of the consuming greed that devours the first empire.

Grecian Empire:
(Greece, Turkey, Syria, Egypt) Four wings of the leopard described the swiftness of this empire that ran from 334-331BC. It wrestled world dominion from Medo-Persia. After the death of Alexander the Great the kingdom was divided into four minor kingdoms that continued as prominent factors in world politics until the Roman Empire gathered it back as one kingdom.

Roman Empire: (little horn, Daniel 8:9-14, 23-27)
Iron represents the stronghold this nation had. Daniel chapter 2 mentions the iron element of this empire that it to will be divided and broken as God will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed.

Rev 12:3 the other sign John saw was a great red dragon meaning Satan. Remember, this is a vision and a sign as Satan has not yet been cast out of heaven until the beginning of the 3 1/2 year tribulation. The description of the dragon being great and red depicts its nature and character as being fierce and murderous, John 8:44. This red dragon is depicted as having seven heads, ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. This is also confirmed in Rev 17 as mystery Babylon is described. The seven heads and ten horns refer to the original ten kingdoms of which three were subdued by the little horn of Daniel 7:8. The last kingdom which stands greater than all the others is that of a revived Roman Empire that takes control over all the ten nations who then implements a deceiving peace treaty with the Muslims in which the Dome of the Rock will be given over to the son of perdition as he reigns from the very Temple mount of God. This is the abomination Jesus spoke of in Matthew 24:15, 16 that we are to flee from when we see the son of perdition take his seat in Jerusalem for 3 1/2 years.

Rev 13 the beast rises up out of the sea as the sea here is symbolic of people and nations as in a sea of humanity, Daniel Chapter 7:1-8; Revelation 17:15. This beast is a Luciferian system comprised of economic, political, militant, environmental and a false religious system. This beast system that Satan works through gives its power to the beast out of the earth as the beast out of the earth appears as the Lamb of God, but is a false Christ being the son of perdition, 2 Thessalonians 2:3-12 with two horns. The two horns represent the Old Roman Empire that received its deadly wound back in 1798 by General Berthier who made his entrance into Rome and abolished the Roman government and established a secular one. That caused them to scatter into the other ten nations (ten horns). The wound was healed in 1929 by Mussolini.

 

[Enlightenedtruth]

For the OP, the Great Tribulation....while I encourage everyone to seek the truth....I would also advise caution in any "truth" you believe you might find from outside sources....Father will reveal that the truth is found within, in the very soul itself......

All the Children will be given a choice....as to which truth they will embrace, prepare thyself......

 

[for_his_glory]

The 1,000 years is called the Millennium, which occurs shortly after the 2nd Coming. Do you see a Millennium taught in Scripture? Are there people in the Millennium in their natural bodies?

I believe I already answered this in post #86

 

[MisterE]

I believe I already answered this in post #86

Yes, but you didn't answer the question of whether or not there will be people in this Millennium (however you see it) in their natural bodies. Will there be people in their natural bodies in this "Millennium (however you see it)?

Sorry I didn't catch your earlier comment on the 1,000 years. I will pay better attention!!!

 

[for_his_glory]

Yes, but you didn't answer the question of whether or not there will be people in this Millennium (however you see it) in their natural bodies. Will there be people in their natural bodies in this "Millennium (however you see it)?

Sorry I didn't catch your earlier comment on the 1,000 years. I will pay better attention!!!

There will be no one in their natural bodies as it will only be those who are Christ own that will be changed into new glorified bodies before we are caught up to meet Jesus in the air and ever more be with Jesus, 1Cor 15:51-58; 1Thess 4:13-18.

 

[MisterE]

There will be no one in their natural bodies as it will only be those who are Christ own that will be changed into new glorified bodies before we are caught up to meet Jesus in the air and ever more be with Jesus, 1Cor 15:51-58; 1Thess 4:13-18.

Then how is the Millennium populated if everyone has a glorified body which does not produce children?