Bible Study Back to Basics

[Hopeful 2]

Sorry but there seems to be something blinding you to the simple truth of these plain and clear words from scripture.

Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. Romans 6:12

Plainly and clearly born again, water baptized Christians have sin in our mortal body.

Which is why Paul admonishes us to not walk according to the flesh.


If you choose to walk according to your flesh then that is your choice.

If one doesn't commit sin, it won't reign in the temple of God.
I will continue to pray that you will eventually read that verse without the additions you presuppose.

 

[Hopeful 2]

I do not agree with all of this very lengthy reply and this thread is not about sinless perfection so I would appreciate it if you no longer try to force this on others. There is no one that are perfect yet unless you live a reclusive life style.

The length is because of all the scriptures I provided that dash the non-perfect-obedience crowd's hopes.
BTW, reclusive lifestyles won't help one resist temptation.
“Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:" (2 Peter 1:10)

 

[Hopeful 2]

There are times when we receive so much meat from the word of God that we try and feed this meat to those who are barely on milk and all this does is leave those who we are trying to teach become lost and confused as to what we are talking about. Frustration and confusion may cause one to give up and never seek the truth of the word of God because they do not understand and need to be taught simple basics of Salvation.

Salvation means to be whole mind, body and soul as we surrender our will to God and allow his will to work in our lives by applying Gods word to every aspect of our lives. This allows us to know the mind of Christ and all the promises of God for our own well being so we can face anything that tries to come against us while here on this earth so we can triumph and be victorious through the grace and mercy of our Lord and Savior Christ Jesus. Grace pardons us and mercy loves us unconditionally.

Jesus was teaching Nicodemus in John 3:1-7 that it was a Spiritual rebirth or renewal of our spirit that through Gods spoken word we can reconcile our past sins through repentance to be made sinless again before God. We are all born with a sin nature because of sin being introduced into the world through Satan’s deceit when he told Eve it was alright to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil even though God forbid them to eat of it.

Our flesh will always sin because that is our nature and God can not see our flesh because of our sins nor can he hear the prayers of a sinner, John 9:31, and this is why we need to renew our Spiritual inner man because sin separates us from God as God is spirit, not flesh and blood, and can only recognize his own children by what spirit is living in their hearts. We have to renew, rebirth - born again, Gods Spirit within us in order to be called a child of God and see the kingdom of heaven. We now put off the old man (flesh) and put on the new man (Spirit). We are renewed by the word of God and through the Holy Spirit teaching us of all things, Romans 8:6, 8.

The basics we need to learn are written in Colossians 3:1-17 and if we follow these guidelines then we will remain in the will of God. The best place to start for learning and understanding Gods Salvation is reading the book of John to learn who Jesus was and is in our own lives and to know anyone can come unto Gods Salvation no matter who you are or what you have done God loves us all unconditionally.

We now have an intercessor (Jesus) who sits at the right hand of the Father and hears our confession that we are sinners and need his salvation as we believe in our heart that he was truly sent from God as the living word that we can indeed become righteous again not of our own righteousness, but that righteousness that is God whom through his Spirit is promised to dwell in us. All we have to do is believe and confess that we are sinners and allow Gods righteousness to cleanse us and renew our spirit man, John 3:5-7. Jesus wants us to come as we are and allow him to make the changes that need made in our hearts. People want to clean the fish before they catch them, but Jesus says come as you are I will clean you from the inside out.

The most basic part of our faith is...Love God with all your heart, mind, soul, and strength...and love your neighbor as you love yourself.
Everything else hinges on that.

 

[Tenchi]

Ask yourself, what is the future of the disobedient ?
Eternal damnation. (John 5:29)
The doctrine of "no-works-salvation" is another of the devil's ploys to encourage disobedience.
By it, nobody should resist temptation, because sin won't tarnish their resurrection and final judgement.
How stupid can one get ?

It's certainly impressive how profound your blindness to God's Truth is!

Works-salvation is flatly and repeatedly denied in God's word.

Ephesians 2:8-9
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

2 Timothy 1:9
9 who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was granted us in Christ Jesus from all eternity,

Titus 3:5
5 He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,

Just as you have regarding your false doctrine of sinless perfection, you deny/ignore the plain statement of God's word that entirely rules out the idea that one can work for the gift of salvation offered to all in Jesus Christ. As Jesus said, "If the 'light' that is in you is actually darkness, how great is that darkness!" (Matthew 6:23). This you demonstrate in the degree to which your error has colored and distorted your understanding of what it is to be a child of God, Hopeful 2. Yikes.

It is to be the supernatural love of God, given to me in, and by, the Holy Spirit (Romans 5:5; Galatians 5:23), that fuels my living for God. The craven fear of God that the lost person labors under has no place at all in the life of the born-again child of God.

1 John 4:16-19
16 We have come to know and have believed the love which God has for us. God is love, and the one who abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him.
17 By this, love is perfected with us, so that we may have confidence in the day of judgment; because as He is, so also are we in this world.
18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love.
19 We love, because He first loved us.

It is the person who does not really know God, who does not really believe the love God has for them, who fears Him as a wrathful Judge, or who fears the loss of their salvation. For those who have not only known but have settled into a confident trust in the awesome love of God, filled with His love that is imparted to them by the Holy Spirit, fear has no place in their mind and heart. The love of God has cast it out.

The Christian, then, who relies upon fear to motivate their obedience to God is actually disobeying God constantly because the fear-motive for obedience is directly contrary to the First and Great Commandment God has given to all of His children.

Matthew 22:36-38
36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?”
37 And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.
38 This is the great and first commandment.

So it is that Paul wrote:

1 Corinthians 13:1-3
1 If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.
2 And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.
3 If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.

No matter what we say, or know, or do, if love for God and then for others is not our root motive, our speech, and knowledge and actions are all spiritually useless. What, then, of the fear-motive for obedience to God you've asserted, the fear of a "tarnished resurrection and final judgment" Hopeful 2? It is utterly the opposite of what God has commanded from His children!

Though you don't seem to know it, love is a far, far, far more powerful motive for walking with God than fear can ever be. I practiced a martial art for thirty years, enduring pain and exhaustion daily, suffering injury, sacrificing my social life (birthday parties, anniversary celebrations, barbecues, fishing trips, etc.) and paying a lot of money in order to practice. It wasn't self-discipline that enabled me to do so. And it certainly wasn't fear. No, it was love that kept me going through all the difficulties of training, love of the art I was practising. No amount of fear could have propelled me, day after day, month after month, year after year for thirty years, into the constant hardships of training. Only love.

This is the way God has made us: We are made to follow our desires, to follow what we love. And what we desire (love) most, we follow most. And so, God has said, our greatest love, our greatest desire, is to be for Him. It's this only this great desire, greater than all our other desires, that can take us into the abundant life that God has for us in fellowship with Himself. Do you enjoy daily fellowship with God, Hopeful 2? I seriously doubt it, whatever you might tell yourself. There can be no fellowship with one whom you fear.

When I'm afraid of God, it is because my focus is on myself, on protecting myself from the threat that is God. This self-focus, this desire for my well-being, is a big part of why God rejects fear as a motive for walking with Him. So long as my attention is on myself, it can't be properly upon God.

Fear also erodes trust. I can't trust a God that I fear as a wrathful Judge. He is only a danger to me, not a loving heavenly Father. When, then, I encounter believers who urge fellow believers to live afraid of their heavenly Father, I understand that they do so because they don't really know God, they don't truly believe He loves them; for if they did, His love would cast out all their fear.

I find, too, that Christians who rely upon a fear of God as a motive for their life with Him do so because they are afraid of themselves, of the depth of their inclination toward sin. Because they don't know how to walk in love with God, they resort to a craven fear of Him, they make Him a threat, instead, which they hope will be strong enough to keep them from the sin they desire. In my experience, all those who operate this way spiritually have lives crowded with secret sin, though they legalistically urge others to the same sort of living.

I strongly suspect this is the case with you, Hopeful 2.

 

[JLB]

If one doesn't commit sin, it won't reign in the temple of God.
I will continue to pray that you will eventually read that verse without the additions you presuppose.

The point has nothing to do with a born again, water baptized Christian, committing a sin.

We who are born again, and baptized in water continue to have a mortal body that contains sin.

Our physical bodies will not become sinless until the resurrection of the dead in Christ at His coming.


Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. Romans 6:12

Plainly and clearly born again, water baptized Christians have sin in our mortal body.

Which is why Paul admonishes us to not walk according to the flesh.


I'm sorry you were led astray when you were younger, into believing our physical bodies LITERALLY DIED and literally came back to life sinless, when you were baptized in water.

It's just simply not true.


Will will receive our new resurrected bodies that will not die anymore at the coming of the Lord.

20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming. 1 Corinthians 15:20-23

again

35 But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; 36 nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection. Luke 20:35-36

 

[Hopeful 2]

It's certainly impressive how profound your blindness to God's Truth is!
Works-salvation is flatly and repeatedly denied in God's word.

The only 'works' spoken against in the bible are the 'works' of the Law.

"But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul." (Heb 10:39)
According to the anti-effort folks, refusing to draw back into perdition is a 'work'.
I will gladly do that work all day long.
Won't you ?

 

[Hopeful 2]

The point has nothing to do with a born again, water baptized Christian, committing a sin.

Our opinions differ.

We who are born again, and baptized in water continue to have a mortal body that contains sin.

Show the scrip' that says our bodies are sinful.
Especially after they have been destroyed. (Rom 6:6)
Especially after they have been raised with Christ to walk in newness of life. (Rom 6:4)
Especially after they have been made new. (2 Cor 5:17)

Our physical bodies will not become sinless until the resurrection of the dead in Christ at His coming.

If men are still sinful on the day of resurrection, the sinners will be raised to everlasting condemnation.

 

[JLB]

Our opinions differ.

This is not opinion.

This is scripture.

Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. Romans 6:12

Plainly and clearly born again, water baptized Christians have sin in our mortal body.

Which is why Paul admonishes us to not walk according to the flesh.

 

[Tenchi]

The only 'works' spoken against in the bible are the 'works' of the Law.

Nope. This is a facile and slippery reply to what the verses I cited to you say, akin to the child who refuses to acknowledge he's done wrong who says, "Well, Mom, you told me never to slap my sister, so I kicked her, instead."

The verses I cited make no reference to any particular law. In fact, none of them mention God's law at all. So you can't squirm out of what Ephesians 2:8-9, 2 Timothy 1:9 and Titus 3:5 plainly declare by the route you've put forward. Our works (entailing obedience to any of God's commands) have no salvific power. None.

"But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul." (Heb 10:39)
According to the anti-effort folks, refusing to draw back into perdition is a 'work'.
I will gladly do that work all day long.
Won't you ?

My faith - believing God - is not the means to the "saving of my soul" any more than my faith in a brain surgeon to remove my brain tumor removes my tumor. I can lay on the operating table for weeks, believing with all my might that the surgeon can remove my tumor and it will not be removed. Only when the surgeon appears and operates on my brain is my tumor taken out. My faith, however great, however persistent, can do nothing about my brain tumor. Only the surgeon can save me.

In the same way, my faith, by itself, has no power whatever to save me from the "tumor" of my sin. I need the Great Physician to remove my "tumor" of sin. My faith merely puts me on the "operating table" where the saving work of Christ is applied to me. I can do nothing but receive his saving work, his removal of my sin "tumor."

We "believe to the saving of the soul" because of who it is in whom we believe. It isn't our faith but its Object that is crucial. As I said already, there is only one Savior. We have no contribution to make to his salvation of us.

How wretched a thing it is, then, when some sin-cursed, finite, weak and ignorant human sinner thinks they can stand next to Christ, helping him to save them. What enormous pride and self-delusion. And what blasphemy to think that there an be anything a sinner, bound under the power of the World, the Flesh and the devil can do to help their holy, perfect Creator's saving work. The sinner must think himself an equal to his God and King to think he can add anything of any value to the saving work his God has done for him.

God in His word denies such thinking:

Romans 5:6-10
6 For while we were still helpless, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly.
7 For one will hardly die for a righteous man; though perhaps for the good man someone would dare even to die.
8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him.
10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.

It is a deeply evil thing, a thing of terrible pride, to imagine I can help Jesus save me when I am helpless, ungodly, a sinner, and his enemy. No, it is solely through Christ's sacrificial death, by his shed blood and by his life I am saved and by nothing else.

 

[Hopeful 2]

This is not opinion.

It is your opinion based on a misread, or misteaching, of Rom 6:12.

This is scripture.
Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. Romans 6:12
Plainly and clearly born again, water baptized Christians have sin in our mortal body.
Which is why Paul admonishes us to not walk according to the flesh

Even though you print out the verse, you read it like this...
"Therefore do not let the sin in your mortal body reign, that you should obey it in its lusts." Romans 6:12
The bodies of those reborn of God's seed, have no sin in them. (2 Cor 5:17, 1 John 3;9)
Their old man was destroyed. (Rom 6:6)

 

[Hopeful 2]

Nope. This is a facile and slippery reply to what the verses I cited to you say, akin to the child who refuses to acknowledge he's done wrong who says, "Well, Mom, you told me never to slap my sister, so I kicked her, instead."

The verses I cited make no reference to any particular law.

Maybe you should have read Gal 2:16 first ?
"Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified."

Your doctrine eventually outlaws (no pun intended) repentance from sin, baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sin, and any obedient adherence to the doctrine which is according to Godliness.
"Obeying God is a work, so I should not do so"...according to those duped into believing your presentation.

 

[Tenchi]

Maybe you should have read Gal 2:16 first ?

Maybe you should have considered the verses I cited in their immediate context which, in every case outlaws works as salvific but makes no mention of God's law. I suspect you have considered them and, finding them directly and explicitly denying your works-salvation view, resort in defense of your error to other verses in other books entirely that seem easier to massage into your error.

"Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified."

This verse doesn't stand in contradiction to the verses I cited but in complement to them, adding a layer of clarity on all that is encompassed by "works." There is no refuge, then, in this verse for your error.

Your doctrine eventually outlaws (no pun intended) repentance from sin, baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sin, and any obedient adherence to the doctrine which is according to Godliness.

No, this is your Boogeyman/Strawman version of the doctrines of Scripture I've pointed out to you. In actuality, the properly biblical truths I've shown you encourage repentance, champion water baptism, and exhort believers to holy living - just not in order to contribute to, or warrant, a salvation only achievable for us by our perfect, infinite, holy God.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Maybe you should have considered the verses I cited in their immediate context which, in every case outlaws works as salvific but makes no mention of God's law. I suspect you have considered them and, finding them directly and explicitly denying your works-salvation view, resort in defense of your error to other verses in other books entirely that seem easier to massage into your error.

You are presenting a false gospel.
One without repentance from sin, and without baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins.
One without the absolute necessity of loving God with all one's heart, soul, mind, and strength.
One without loving our neighbors as we love ourselves.
I reject it outright.

this verse doesn't stand in contradiction to the verses I cited but in complement to them, adding a layer of clarity on all that is encompassed by "works." There is no refuge, then, in this verse for your error.
No, this is your Boogeyman/Strawman version of the doctrines of Scripture I've pointed out to you. In actuality, the properly biblical truths I've shown you encourage repentance, champion water baptism, and exhort believers to holy living - just not in order to contribute to, or warrant, a salvation only achievable for us by our perfect, infinite, holy God.

Your brand of truth does not free a man from committing sin, like Jesus' John 8:32-34 truth does.
In fact is outlaws obedience to God.

 

[JLB]

The bodies of those reborn of God's seed, have no sin in them. (2 Cor 5:17, 1 John 3;9)

If that is what those references say, then why not post them?

As is stands, we plainly see that Paul was writing to and instructing water baptized Christians in Rome.

1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. 7 For he who has died has been freed from sin. 8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, 9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him. 10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. 11 Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.
12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. 13 And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace. Romans 6:1-14

• Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts.

Paul instructs us to not let sin in our mortal body, rule or reign to make us obey it's lustful cravings.

• And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin

If our physical bodies were "sinless" as you claim, then why does scripture put so much emphasis on not walking after the flesh, or not obeying the sin in our flesh.


Our flesh has sin in it because our spirit was born again, not our physical body as you claim.


That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. John 3:6


Your physical body was not born again at water baptism.

 

[Tenchi]

You are presenting a false gospel.

I understand that you think this. But nothing you've offered in defense of your error bears out what you assert here. In fact, instead of presenting a false gospel, all I've done is show what God's word says and how it plainly denies, very explicitly and repeatedly, the false doctrines you're proposing. I get that you aren't willing to relinquish any of the long-held false beliefs you put forward all over CF.net, but the longer you do so, the deeper into darkness and the farther from God you're going. Turn around!

One without repentance from sin, and without baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins.

This is like the person being charged by a grizzly bear who just closes their eyes and repeats, "There is no bear. There is no bear." It might be comforting in the short term to say such an obviously false thing to oneself but when the bear gets its jaws around one's neck, one will have wished one had climbed a tree instead of chanting nonsense to oneself.

In any case, folks have only to read my posts to this thread to see that what you claim here is completely false. That you can't see the same is testament to the truth of the warning the apostle John gave in 1 John 1:8. If you give an inch to willful blindness, it just overtakes your mind and darkens everything you think. As the saying goes, "There is no one so blind as he who will not see."

One without the absolute necessity of loving God with all one's heart, soul, mind, and strength.

See? Just more of you calling white, black and black, white. My posts speak for themselves, just as God's word does for itself, and both deny what you've been proposing in this thread.

I reject it outright.

You've rejected nothing but your own false fantasy, a silly cartoon of what I've shown from Scripture in this thread. I should hope, then, that you reject it! Better it would be, though, that you not form such a fantasy in the first place.

Your brand of truth does not free a man from committing sin, like Jesus' John 8:32-34 truth does.
In fact is outlaws obedience to God.

Saying this goofy stuff doesn't make it true. Anyone reading through this thread is going to be scratching their head at your claim here since it is so obviously contrary to what I've actually written. Doesn't it bother you at all how easily you say these false things and how blind to doing so you appear to be? Yikes.

 

[Follower Of Christ]

1 Corinthians 15:50 states "I tell you this, brothers: flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable"

1 Thessalonians 16:17 states "For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord."

Until the resurrection on the second coming of Christ we all are still in the flesh. That is we have a sanctified PROMISE to be in the kingdom of God as born again faithful in Christ but we are not yet there as members of the Kingdom of God. To be a member of the Kingdom of God means you have been resurrected already.

Those who do not understand this simple truth still have a veil over their eyes.

 

[Hopeful 2]

If that is what those references say, then why not post them?

Look them up.

As is stands, we plainly see that Paul was writing to and instructing water baptized Christians in Rome.

1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not!

If men's skin and bones have sin in them, how can they not continue in sin ?

How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?

Dead to sin...except in your group ?

3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. 7 For he who has died has been freed from sin. 8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, 9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him. 10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. 11 Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.
12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. 13 And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace. Romans 6:1-14

Thank God for those verses.
The instructions on how to enter into Christ, and the instructions for entering into, and partaking in, His death, burial, and resurrection...so we can walk in newness of life !
New life !
No longer after the "flesh", but after the Spirit !

• wherefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts.

Paul instructs us to not let sin in our mortal body, rule or reign to make us obey it's lustful cravings.

Right: do so, and live.

• And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin

Right: do so and live !

If our physical bodies were "sinless" as you claim, then why does scripture put so much emphasis on not walking after the flesh, or not obeying the sin in our flesh.

Because the "flesh" in the verses you have in mind, is the worldly oriented mind; and not skin and bones.

Our flesh has sin in it because our spirit was born again, not our physical body as you claim.

More partial rebirth nonsense.
All of me was made new, at my rebirth.

That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. John 3:6

My birth from mom was from the flesh.
My rebirth was from the Spirit.
Wasn't yours ?

Your physical body was not born again at water baptism.

My old man was destroyed, at it's immersion into Christ's death; and it was buried at my immersion into His burial.
Then, thanks to the grace of God, it was raised to walk in newness of life.
I'ld hate to think that you have missed out on that.

 

[Hopeful 2]

I understand that you think this. But nothing you've offered in defense of your error bears out what you assert here. In fact, instead of presenting a false gospel, all I've done is show what God's word says and how it plainly denies, very explicitly and repeatedly, the false doctrines you're proposing. I get that you aren't willing to relinquish any of the long-held false beliefs you put forward all over CF.net, but the longer you do so, the deeper into darkness and the farther from God you're going. Turn around!

How many sinners will go to heaven ?
None.
It is written..."Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." (Matt 7:22)

In any case, folks have only to read my posts to this thread to see that what you claim here is completely false. That you can't see the same is testament to the truth of the warning the apostle John gave in 1 John 1:8. If you give an inch to willful blindness, it just overtakes your mind and darkens everything you think. As the saying goes, "There is no one so blind as he who will not see.

Verses that apply to those waking in sin-(darkness), don't apply to those walking in God-(light).

 

[Tenchi]

How many sinners will go to heaven ?
None.

Hah. Only sinners will go to heaven. There is no other sort of person who can become a child of God. This is exactly why we need all the things in/from Christ that Paul listed in his first letter to the believers in Corinth.

1 Corinthians 1:30-31
30 But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption,
31 so that, just as it is written, "LET HIM WHO BOASTS, BOAST IN THE LORD."

No one can boast of anything in themselves, in their conduct, before God. Only from Christ does a person obtain the righteousness, sanctification and redemption of God. And it is only perfect divine righteousness and sanctification that God will accept; it is only perfect, infinite atonement that satisfies His holy justice. These things are all entirely beyond us.

In any case, your responses have deteriorated into mere contradiction of the sort children offer to each other in arguments on the playground. Like you, they, too, just repeat contradictory statements to their opponents, sometimes with their fingers in their ears. In light of the degenerated level of your replies, there's little point in continuing discussion with you. You don't seem to realize how childish and weak your contradictions are.

Verses that apply to those waking in sin-(darkness), don't apply to those walking in God-(light).

The verses say what they say, Hopeful 2. Simply repeating your contortion of them won't make them say something different.

 

[JLB]

My old man was destroyed, at it's immersion into Christ's death; and it was buried at my immersion into His burial.
Then, thanks to the grace of God, it was raised to walk in newness of life.
I'ld hate to think that you have missed out on that.

You physical body did not literally die at water baptism.


You have the same physical body you had when your mother gave birth to you.

Your spirit was reborn not your physical body.

That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. John 3:6