Baptism

[Corn Pop]

Faith is belief, its beliving in things not seen. Hope and trust.

Why are some people so obssesed with baptism like water saves people?.

Christ saves lives, not water. Abraham believed God, he believed God would deliever through Christ even he did not see it he believed God and thats faith and he was credited with righteousness.

The thief on the cross asked Jesus to remember him, he was down and had no one else to turn to for comfort and support but Christ, he decided to believe and put his hope and trust in Christs hands, and Christ credited him with righteousness for having that faith, he didnt get dunked in water or eat a slice of bread.

Water baptisim is good its a good thing, but its not needed to be saved and sometimes people freak out they not baptised in water and question there faith and if they saved. Our belief is not in a river of water, its in God alone.


Christ is the living water, he is the bread of life, faith in Christ is more important and more worthy than believing being dunked in some water saves lives.

 

[gordon777]

Sin is the work of death, righteousness is the work of life.


Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.


1 John 2:29 If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

1 John 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

1 John 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

 

[Corn Pop]

Jesus isnt talking about being dunked in water.

Luke 12:50

This

1 Peter 3:21
Colossians 2:12

The baptism of water and Spirit is through Christ. The washing clean is through Christs work.

 

[for_his_glory]

I had read your posts and i wasnt ignoring i just had not replied.

There is 2 baptisms i can see. Johns through water and Christ buried and raised, the gospel preached, but im trying to figure out if i can clearly see that water is essential. I just find it hard to believe someone can recieve the gospel and be baptised in Christ through belief and faith, buried with him and raised, thats baptism, and scripture says people had the holy Spirit before water like whenPeter was called and went for a visit, but for some reason they must have water to be complete.

A little long, but hope it helps.

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

1 John 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? 6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. 7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

If you compare John 3:5 with 1 John 5:5-8 water means word as in the word being the living water (John 4:9-15) as in the Father, the word (living water Jesus) and the Holy Spirit. The three that bear witness is Holy Spirit, Gods living word, and the blood of Jesus who made atonement for sin that we can be reconciled back to the Father.

Everything from Genesis 1:1 to Revelation 22:21 is all Gods word and Holy Spirit dwelling in or falling on and come to Earth in the form of a man in Christ Jesus. It's all Gods grace freely given to all who will believe in that faith that is Christ Jesus as He spoke Gods word (John 12:44-50 living water) and the Prophets and Apostles wrote and testified of what Jesus taught verbally.

It's Gods word that we are made righteous through Him, sanctified, justified and made Holy before Him. No dirty river water can save us, but is only an outward appearance to others that we have been washed clean (made righteous before God) by the blood of the Lamb and the renewing through the Holy Spirit.

The Jerusalem Bible
1 John 5:6 Jesus Christ who came by water and blood, not with water only, but with water and blood with the Spirit as another witness since the Spirit is truth 7 so that there are three witnesses, 8 the Spirit, the water, and the blood and all three of them agree

KJV
1 John 5:6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. 7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

Literal water has nothing to do with salvation as Jesus came by the foretold word of the Prophets, sent by the Father, and signified by the Holy Spirit that lighted upon Him during John's water baptism for the remission of sins, Matthew 3:11-17. Three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, the water (word) and the blood. Three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word and the Holy Ghost.

The more I think about "born again" Nicodemus had no understanding as even many today would ask the same question "How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?"

Jesus goes on to tell him "Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit."

Ephesians 5:26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

Paul understood it was not by water baptism (BTW baptism is not mentioned in John 3:5), but by the word of God that we are sanctified, which means set apart and made holy. We being the church of God have been made clean by His word as we are washed in the blood of the Lamb.

Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

1 Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

Again Paul and also Peter gives us the understanding that being born again/born from above is not by actual water which would be a work of our own righteousness, but regeneration (new Spiritual life) that comes by God's mercy through His spoken word and Spirit (Holy Spirit).

IMO it doesn't matter if we say born again or born from above, but that we understand it is by God's grace through faith, which is Christ Jesus and His finished works on the cross that we are cleansed by the blood of the Lamb and our spirit renewed by the very Spirit of God, (Holy Spirit)

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Per the conversation Nicodemus and Jesus were discussing in John 3:9, 10 here are a few more OT verses that parallel being born again that Nicodemus should have known, but probably not emphasized as much since Jesus had to explain it to him.

1 Samuel 10:6 And the spirit of the LORD will come upon thee, and thou shalt prophesy with them, and shalt be turned into another man.

Job 15:14 What is man, that he should be clean? and he which is born of a woman, that he should be righteous?

Job 25: 4 How then can man be justified with God? or how can he be clean that is born of a woman?

Ezekiel 11:19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh: 20 That they may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and do them: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God.

There are around 1526 instances of living water in the Bible. Here are some verses on living water being the word. John 4:4-26; 7:37-39; 12:44-50; Ephesians 5:26; 1 John 5:5-8; Jeremiah 17:13; Zechariah 14:8, 9; Rev 21:6-8; Ezekiel 47:22

 

[Corn Pop]

Christ crucified, his burial and ressurection is the Baptism of water and spirit and through Christ is one saved. Cleaned of sin and given the Spirit of Righteousness. Through his work is one cleansed with water and Spirit.

We did not witness Christs work, but we believe through the living word and gospel, blessed are they who have not seen yet believe. Blessed is Moses and Abraham, and the Prophets who did not see yet believed.

John baptised with water for the repentance of sin for Israel, then come Jesus with the ultimate baptism that through him and his work one is baptised in water and spirit through faith and belief.


Thats how i see the scriptures.

 

[gordon777]

Everybody believes in their own way, ( persuaded in their own mind)

The water baptism Christ took part in, has its part, of Jesus fulfilling all righteousness, He humbles Himself, He is the King of Heaven that lets man approve of Him.

The same baptism saves us, of conscience towards God, when they believed in the rising of Christ, they received the Spirit and were baptised of water after. In Acts 10.


FOLLOW THE TESTIMONY, FOR A MOMENT.


Jesus comes to John, Jesus has the Spirit descending and lighting upon Him, and God declares this is HIs beloved Son, in whom He is well pleased.

Peter shows in Acts 2, we repent and are baptized. ( belief is first, to repent.)

Acts 10, begins to tell about God anointing Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power, ( the same as power from on high came to the apostles, which is by belief first. Luke 24:49.)

The apostles ( anointed with the Holy Ghost from on high) are witnesses of what Christ did and Him being killed and hanged on the tree, and God raising Him up after three days, and showed Him openly to those same witnesses, and commanded the apostles to preach to the people, to testify that it is He which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead. ( to believe Christ had the Spirit light upon Him and remain, that God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power.)

All the prophets witness, that through His name whosoever believes in Him shall receive remission of sins.

While Peter yet spoke those words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

Then he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord.



Matthew 3:13 Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him.
14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?
15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.
16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.
39 And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree:
40 Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly;
41 Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead.
42 And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.
43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

 

[gordon777]

Water was first, then Spirit, then Spirit was first, then water.

But always, Spirit was first and Spirit is only, as water was created by the Spirit, and we are made Spirit, not water.

The water Jesus gives, is the Spirit, if we are given water by people, and do not believe in the Spirit, it will be only water, but if we believe that it is the same water that Christ was baptized with, it will be Spirit.

The Spirit is more important than water, unless the water is Spirit.




Zechariah 12:10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

Zechariah 14:8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.

John 4:14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

John 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

John 19:34 But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.
35 And he that saw it bare record, and his record is true: and he knoweth that he saith true, that ye might believe.
36 For these things were done, that the scripture should be fulfilled, A bone of him shall not be broken.
37 And again another scripture saith, They shall look on him whom they pierced.

1 John 5:6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.

 

[Corn Pop]

Water baptism represents the death and ressurection of Christ. You go into death that is the Law given to Moses and come out raised in life.

Why do i want to get baptised into the law given to Moses when i can just go straight through Christ and his baptism?.

Johns baptism in water was for Israel. And Jesus humbled himself and fullfilled what was nessesary because he is Israel so he took the baptism. Out of the old and into the new, he was the ultimate baptism.

 

[gordon777]

The law is not of faith, anyone who baptises without faith, the water will do nothing, as the water is nothing, faith is everything.

The Spirit is all, it i eternal, any water on this earth is temporary.

That is why the only baptism that saves us is of faith, to be saved by Christ, ( ark, He is the Lord our pass over) not by water, or putting away of/washing away the filth of the flesh.)



2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.


1 Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

 

[gordon777]

Also that is a personal belief, if a person believes water is necessary, that is their belief, nobody has right to insist, because the Holy |Ghost was given before water baptism.

This thread also belongs in a specialist baptist forum, not in theology, it is not theology, it is strife and contention only.

 

[donadams]

The Apostles church was taken over by wolves.


The entrance to the Kingdom is t believe in the love of Christ dying to save us from sins, washes in HUIs own blood, we do not need the wolves to lead anyone.





Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.
31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.

2 Peter 1:7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.


Revelation 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

Scripture and Jesus Christ failed?
Matt 16:18-19 shall not fail prevail
Jn 8:32 truth
Jn 14:6 way truth and life
Jn 16:13 apostles lead into all truth
Matt 28:19 teach and sanctify all men unto eternal salvation
Thru faith and baptism

 

[donadams]

Effects of faith & baptism!

Ez 36:25-27 washed in baptism, with a new heart and the Spirit
Matt 28:19 faith & baptism
Jn 3:5 born again in baptism
Mk 16:16 faith & baptist
Acts 2:38 repentance & baptism
Acts 8:36-38 faith & baptism
Acts 22:16 baptism washes away sin
Rom 6:3 died with Christ
Col 2:12 risen with Christ
1 cor 12:13 baptized into the church
Gal 3:27 by baptism put on Christ
2 Tim 1:10 eph 2:1 and 5 brought to life
2 cor 5:17 new creation
Eph 1:13 eph 4:30 sealed by the Holy Spirit
Eph 4:5 one faith, one baptism
Eph 5:26 faith and baptism
Titus 3:5 baptismal regeneration
1 pet 1:2 washed in Christ’s blood
1 pet 2:9 the kingdom of light
1 pet 3:20-21 baptism saves us!

Faith and baptism are required Mk 16:16 eph 4:5

Faith alone even all faith avails NOTHING! 1 cor 13:2

 

[Josef]

Hey All,
I did not look at all your references. But I know without looking that the last two are being used out of context to prove a point that does not exist within them. I don't think you are doing this maliciously. But you know why. However Let's look them up and break them down. Then I have a question for you.

Ephesians 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

By itself it looks like it supports faith plus baptism. But when you read the whole passage, Paul is telling us to walk worthy of our vocation. What is our vocation? The bestowment of God's grace upon us. The Ephesians had become a fractured church, introducing false doctrine as paths to salvation. Paul is saying there is only one path--grace through faith in Jesus. That is the only, or one, way.

Ephesians 4:2-6 With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;
Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

See how it reads in context.

1 Corinthians 13:1-2 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

This passage is simple. It is not saying faith without baptism . . . It is saying faith without charity (agape), or love, is not worth anything. Again context saves the day.

Now my question:

Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Which is the right baptism? That was, and obviously still is, a real argument in the church. If I am baptized one way and not the other is the baptism effective to me? Another faction in the church at Ephesus was circumcision vs. uncircumcision. Did you need to be one way or the other to be saved? Was one way more spiritual than the other? Again a real argument.(What a way to measure spirituality!)

Paul is trying to correct the factions like these by calling for unity. Because whether one is baptized Trinitarianily, or in Jesus' name only, both are effective because they are both the same.

Baptism is a public display of the death of the old man and the resurrection of the new creations we have become. Think of it this way. Baptism is a work. It requires human effort to achieve the result. Paul just argued in Ephesians 2 :8-9 that salvation is by grace through faith and not of works. Is Paul now contradicting himself?
Of course not. Context, it's a good thing. (As Martha Stewart would say.)

Bottom line, nether of these passages support your position.

I sincerely hope this is not being done maliciously. . I say this because faith plus baptism for salvation is also a Jehovah's witnesses' doctrine as well. That is what's pinging my sonar, so to speak.
Keep walking everybody. May God bless,
Taz

 

[gordon777]

Scripture and Jesus Christ failed?
Matt 16:18-19 shall not fail prevail
Jn 8:32 truth
Jn 14:6 way truth and life
Jn 16:13 apostles lead into all truth
Matt 28:19 teach and sanctify all men unto eternal salvation
Thru faith and baptism

The church is an uncorrupted one, it is inside few, not with the many, it s not a church visible that has killed in the name of God, do you fail to see that for some reason. ( that was the purpose of the wolves entering the flock, all has to have purpose)



Acts 17:24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;

Matthew 20:16 So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.

2 Corinthians 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

1 Peter 3:4 But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.

2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.

 

[gordon777]

Effects of faith & baptism!

Ez 36:25-27 washed in baptism, with a new heart and the Spirit
Matt 28:19 faith & baptism
Jn 3:5 born again in baptism
Mk 16:16 faith & baptist
Acts 2:38 repentance & baptism
Acts 8:36-38 faith & baptism
Acts 22:16 baptism washes away sin
Rom 6:3 died with Christ
Col 2:12 risen with Christ
1 cor 12:13 baptized into the church
Gal 3:27 by baptism put on Christ
2 Tim 1:10 eph 2:1 and 5 brought to life
2 cor 5:17 new creation
Eph 1:13 eph 4:30 sealed by the Holy Spirit
Eph 4:5 one faith, one baptism
Eph 5:26 faith and baptism
Titus 3:5 baptismal regeneration
1 pet 1:2 washed in Christ’s blood
1 pet 2:9 the kingdom of light
1 pet 3:20-21 baptism saves us!

Faith and baptism are required Mk 16:16 eph 4:5

Faith alone even all faith avails NOTHING! 1 cor 13:2

Baptism is through faith, they are not separate, if a person does not believe they cant be baptized, it is a seal, like the seal of circumcision given to Abraham, which is why we are told that circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of Christ, which is a new creature, by the circumcision made without hands, the circumcision of Christ/the Spirit.

Proof of that has been told for you guys already, the Spirit comes on all those who believe, because they already had received baptism of the Spirit.

Mentioning of 1 Corinthians 13 is good of you guys, but not understood right, faith works by love, baptism works by a seal, and without faith it is lost.

When the churches are divided, as they are in this entire world, it means they do not believe in neither uncircumcision or circumcision, they all believe in separate ways and are not one in Christ. ( example of that are the divided churches on being baptized or not, as all that matters was told, a new creature/being born of the Spirit, which these antichrist spirits oppose, yet they are empty vessels, with no reasoning.)



Romans 4:11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:

1 Corinthians 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

Colossians 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

Galatians 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

Galatians 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

Colossians 3:11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.

 

[donadams]

The church is an uncorrupted one, it is inside few, not with the many, it s not a church visible that has killed in the name of God, do you fail to see that for some reason. ( that was the purpose of the wolves entering the flock, all has to have purpose)



Acts 17:24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;

Matthew 20:16 So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.

2 Corinthians 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

1 Peter 3:4 But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.

2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.

A mountain is pretty much visible!

Prophecy of the new covenant and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. (The new covenant church) Jn 15:1-5 (the church is the new Jerusalem the kingdom) gal 4:26 (one church) Jn 10:16

Dan 2: 44 And in the days of these kings (Roman Caesars) shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

Isaiah 2:2
And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.

Micah 4:1
But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the Lord shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it.

Daniel 6:26
I make a decree, That in every dominion of my kingdom men tremble and fear before the God of Daniel: for he is the living God, and stedfast for ever, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed, and his dominion shall be even unto the end.

Daniel 7:14
And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

Daniel 7:18
But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever.

Matt 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Lk 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;


Christ and His church are one inseparable unity! Acts 9:4 Jn 15:5 acts 1:8 eph 5:24 eph 5:32

Only Christ has authority to establish the church! Matt 16:18-19
One church! Jn 10:16 All others are sects “full of errors” “the tradition of men”! The new covenant Church is the eternal city of God! Household of faith! The pillar and ground of TRUTH! 1 Tim 3:15 Founded by Christ alone! Matt 16:18 on Peter and the apostles! Eph 2:20

The church is of divine origin and cannot be corrupted or reformed by the tradition of men! Truth is immutable!

The church the only ark of salvation, the household of faith and is not spiritual to the exclusion of the physical or invisible to the exclusion of the visible but, visible, invisible, spiritual, physical, and supernatural of divine origin and therefore divine preservation! Matt 16:18-19 Jn 8:32 Jn 16:13 Jn 10:16

Visible and invisible
Spiritual and physical
And supernatural the means of grace and the ark of salvation!


A city set on a hill: Matt 5:14
Light of the world: Matt 5:14
Pillar of truth: 1 Tim 3:15
Teach and sanctify all men: Matt 28:19

Unity of faith!

Four Marks of the True Church founded by Jesus Christ on Peter, the apostles, and their successors!

One, holy, catholic (universal) and apostolic (succeeding from Christ, Peter and the apostles)

(Only the human institution or the discipline of the church can change)



Matt 28:17-20
Jn 20:21-23

Protestant church and practice
Holy communion service
Does not resemble the old covenant or the new covenant scripture


Christ reformed the mosaic covenant into the new covenant Christian church in His own blood. Heb 9:10 so the new covenant has many similarities to the old covenant:

 

[DJT_47]

Faith is belief, its beliving in things not seen. Hope and trust.

Why are some people so obssesed with baptism like water saves people?.

Christ saves lives, not water. Abraham believed God, he believed God would deliever through Christ even he did not see it he believed God and thats faith and he was credited with righteousness.

The thief on the cross asked Jesus to remember him, he was down and had no one else to turn to for comfort and support but Christ, he decided to believe and put his hope and trust in Christs hands, and Christ credited him with righteousness for having that faith, he didnt get dunked in water or eat a slice of bread.

Water baptisim is good its a good thing, but its not needed to be saved and sometimes people freak out they not baptised in water and question there faith and if they saved. Our belief is not in a river of water, its in God alone.


Christ is the living water, he is the bread of life, faith in Christ is more important and more worthy than believing being dunked in some water saves lives.

1 Peter 3:21

21The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

 

[Corn Pop]

1 Peter 3:21

21The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

So that scripture is saying baptism in water does not save but baptism by the ressurection of Christ as i read it.

It says Baptism is a good conscience toward the ressurection of Christ. The Spirit is life.

Like Christ said one cannot enter the kindgom until one be born of water and spirit that symbolised and he was talking about his death, burial, and ressurection.

Water and Spirit. Its Christ work and his baptism that saves and through him is one baptised in water and spirit and can enter the kingdom.

 

[Corn Pop]

Christ is either going to say he knows me because i put my faith, trust, and hope in him and give God praise, honor, and respect for his work that washed me clean and offered me life through Christs death, burial, and ressurection, or he can say he does not know me because i did not have my head dunked in some water.

I will leave that for God to Judge.

 

[donadams]

Hey All,
I did not look at all your references. But I know without looking that the last two are being used out of context to prove a point that does not exist within them. I don't think you are doing this maliciously. But you know why. However Let's look them up and break them down. Then I have a question for you.

Ephesians 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

By itself it looks like it supports faith plus baptism. But when you read the whole passage, Paul is telling us to walk worthy of our vocation. What is our vocation? The bestowment of God's grace upon us. The Ephesians had become a fractured church, introducing false doctrine as paths to salvation. Paul is saying there is only one path--grace through faith in Jesus. That is the only, or one, way.

Ephesians 4:2-6 With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;
Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

See how it reads in context.

1 Corinthians 13:1-2 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

This passage is simple. It is not saying faith without baptism . . . It is saying faith without charity (agape), or love, is not worth anything. Again context saves the day.

Now my question:

Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Which is the right baptism? That was, and obviously still is, a real argument in the church. If I am baptized one way and not the other is the baptism effective to me? Another faction in the church at Ephesus was circumcision vs. uncircumcision. Did you need to be one way or the other to be saved? Was one way more spiritual than the other? Again a real argument.(What a way to measure spirituality!)

Paul is trying to correct the factions like these by calling for unity. Because whether one is baptized Trinitarianily, or in Jesus' name only, both are effective because they are both the same.

Baptism is a public display of the death of the old man and the resurrection of the new creations we have become. Think of it this way. Baptism is a work. It requires human effort to achieve the result. Paul just argued in Ephesians 2 :8-9 that salvation is by grace through faith and not of works. Is Paul now contradicting himself?
Of course not. Context, it's a good thing. (As Martha Stewart would say.)

Bottom line, nether of these passages support your position.

I sincerely hope this is not being done maliciously. . I say this because faith plus baptism for salvation is also a Jehovah's witnesses' doctrine as well. That is what's pinging my sonar, so to speak.
Keep walking everybody. May God bless,
Taz

Faith alone” Questions

where does ez 36: 25:27 Say “faith alone”?

where does scripture says we have died with Christ by “faith alone”?

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

where does scripture say we are members of Christ and his church by “faith alone”?

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

where does scripture says we put on Christ by “faith alone”?

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Where does scripture say our sins are washed away by “faith alone”?

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

where does scripture say we are saved or justified by “faith alone”?

1 pet 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!

The only reference in scripture to “faith alone” is James 2:24 NOT BY “FAITH ALONE”?

2 pet 1: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

How can you enter by your own if it must be ministered to you? Baptism is done unto you, “not do it yourself by faith alone”

Jn 3:5 born again by faith alone?

Where is “Accept Christ as your personal lord & savior” is found in scripture?

They did not go preaching this line but went immediately to the river and baptized Jn 3:22

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Eph 4:5 one baptism

Why don’t it say one teeny tiny little act of “faith alone”???

When we first believed we are saved?

Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

How can salvation be nearer than when we first believed if you’re saved by believing?

1 pet 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

Matt 24:13 endures to the end Shall be saved.

How can salvation happen when we first believed if it’s the end?

If salvation is by “faith alone” then faith would be the greatest!
1 cor 13:13 charity is the greatest!

Even all faith much less “faith alone” without charity avails nothing!
1 cor 13:2

Lk 8
The parable of the sower, all four had faith are they all not saved?


Lk 23:39 did not the bad thief say; save us? “Faith alone”?

Lk 18:14
Why did the publican not mention Jesus Christ or make a profession of belief, but prayer and virtue!

Why must we also suffer?
Faith alone not enough”?

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Phil 1:29 not called to believe alone but also to suffer for Christ’s sake.

Matthew 10:38
And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

Matt 24:13 endures “in Christ” to the end shall be saved.

Matthew 16:24
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

 

[donadams]

Baptism is through faith, they are not separate, if a person does not believe they cant be baptized, it is a seal, like the seal of circumcision given to Abraham, which is why we are told that circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of Christ, which is a new creature, by the circumcision made without hands, the circumcision of Christ/the Spirit.

Proof of that has been told for you guys already, the Spirit comes on all those who believe, because they already had received baptism of the Spirit.

Mentioning of 1 Corinthians 13 is good of you guys, but not understood right, faith works by love, baptism works by a seal, and without faith it is lost.

When the churches are divided, as they are in this entire world, it means they do not believe in neither uncircumcision or circumcision, they all believe in separate ways and are not one in Christ. ( example of that are the divided churches on being baptized or not, as all that matters was told, a new creature/being born of the Spirit, which these antichrist spirits oppose, yet they are empty vessels, with no reasoning.)



Romans 4:11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:

1 Corinthians 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

Colossians 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

Galatians 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

Galatians 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

Colossians 3:11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.

Faith alone” Questions

where does ez 36: 25:27 Say “faith alone”?

where does scripture says we have died with Christ by “faith alone”?

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

where does scripture say we are members of Christ and his church by “faith alone”?

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

where does scripture says we put on Christ by “faith alone”?

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Where does scripture say our sins are washed away by “faith alone”?

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

where does scripture say we are saved or justified by “faith alone”?

1 pet 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!

The only reference in scripture to “faith alone” is James 2:24 NOT BY “FAITH ALONE”?

2 pet 1: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

How can you enter by your own if it must be ministered to you? Baptism is done unto you, “not do it yourself by faith alone”

Jn 3:5 born again by faith alone?

Where is “Accept Christ as your personal lord & savior” is found in scripture?

They did not go preaching this line but went immediately to the river and baptized Jn 3:22

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Eph 4:5 one baptism

Why don’t it say one teeny tiny little act of “faith alone”???

When we first believed we are saved?

Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

How can salvation be nearer than when we first believed if you’re saved by believing?

1 pet 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

Matt 24:13 endures to the end Shall be saved.

How can salvation happen when we first believed if it’s the end?

If salvation is by “faith alone” then faith would be the greatest!
1 cor 13:13 charity is the greatest!

Even all faith much less “faith alone” without charity avails nothing!
1 cor 13:2

Lk 8
The parable of the sower, all four had faith are they all not saved?


Lk 23:39 did not the bad thief say; save us? “Faith alone”?

Lk 18:14
Why did the publican not mention Jesus Christ or make a profession of belief, but prayer and virtue!

Why must we also suffer?
Faith alone not enough”?

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Phil 1:29 not called to believe alone but also to suffer for Christ’s sake.

Matthew 10:38
And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

Matt 24:13 endures “in Christ” to the end shall be saved.

Matthew 16:24
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.