Baptism

[Corn Pop]

Faith is belief, its beliving in things not seen. Hope and trust.

Why are some people so obssesed with baptism like water saves people?.

Christ saves lives, not water. Abraham believed God, he believed God would deliever through Christ even he did not see it he believed God and thats faith and he was credited with righteousness.

The thief on the cross asked Jesus to remember him, he was down and had no one else to turn to for comfort and support but Christ, he decided to believe and put his hope and trust in Christs hands, and Christ credited him with righteousness for having that faith, he didnt get dunked in water or eat a slice of bread.

Water baptisim is good its a good thing, but its not needed to be saved and sometimes people freak out they not baptised in water and question there faith and if they saved. Our belief is not in a river of water, its in God alone.


Christ is the living water, he is the bread of life, faith in Christ is more important and more worthy than believing being dunked in some water saves lives.

 

[donadams]

1 Peter 3:21

21The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Ez 36:25-27

 

[donadams]

Hey All,
I did not look at all your references. But I know without looking that the last two are being used out of context to prove a point that does not exist within them. I don't think you are doing this maliciously. But you know why. However Let's look them up and break them down. Then I have a question for you.

Ephesians 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

By itself it looks like it supports faith plus baptism. But when you read the whole passage, Paul is telling us to walk worthy of our vocation. What is our vocation? The bestowment of God's grace upon us. The Ephesians had become a fractured church, introducing false doctrine as paths to salvation. Paul is saying there is only one path--grace through faith in Jesus. That is the only, or one, way.

Ephesians 4:2-6 With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;
Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

See how it reads in context.

1 Corinthians 13:1-2 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

This passage is simple. It is not saying faith without baptism . . . It is saying faith without charity (agape), or love, is not worth anything. Again context saves the day.

Now my question:

Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Which is the right baptism? That was, and obviously still is, a real argument in the church. If I am baptized one way and not the other is the baptism effective to me? Another faction in the church at Ephesus was circumcision vs. uncircumcision. Did you need to be one way or the other to be saved? Was one way more spiritual than the other? Again a real argument.(What a way to measure spirituality!)

Paul is trying to correct the factions like these by calling for unity. Because whether one is baptized Trinitarianily, or in Jesus' name only, both are effective because they are both the same.

Baptism is a public display of the death of the old man and the resurrection of the new creations we have become. Think of it this way. Baptism is a work. It requires human effort to achieve the result. Paul just argued in Ephesians 2 :8-9 that salvation is by grace through faith and not of works. Is Paul now contradicting himself?
Of course not. Context, it's a good thing. (As Martha Stewart would say.)

Bottom line, nether of these passages support your position.

I sincerely hope this is not being done maliciously. . I say this because faith plus baptism for salvation is also a Jehovah's witnesses' doctrine as well. That is what's pinging my sonar, so to speak.
Keep walking everybody. May God bless,
Taz

Scripture out of context supports the catholic faith.

Scripture in context supports Protestantism. Whatever!

All scripture is the inspired “word of God” even one word!

Why does it need to be in Scripture?

Where is the verse saying, “the Bible is the only authority”?

Which is biblical?

The Bible is the only authority

Or

Christ founded a church to teach and sanctify all men unto
Eternal salvation: Matt 28:28 Lk 1:4 acts 1:8, 2:42, 8:31 Jn 16:13, 20:21-23 Matt 18:17 1 Tim 3:16
1 Jn 1:4

I did not say the Bible is not an authority, I say it’s not the “only authority”!

The Bible is the fruit of the apostolic tradition, the church is not dependent on scripture to know truth cos she was taught by Christ in person for thee years!


The same apostolic church you say is the beast or whore is the apostolic church that wrote and approved the New Testament canon!

The New Testament is the fruit of the apostolic authority in succession from the apostles! Without the apostolic authority and apostolic succession there would be no New Testament!


Are we really just Relying on our own private judgement of scripture?

Instead of Christ the light of the world, and the way, the truth, and the Life!

And Christ and His church are one unity in all truth and grace!

Really we are just believing in our own private fallible judgment!

When Christ established the church to teach and sanctify all men unto eternal salvation! Matt 28:19

Christians must be taught or instructed by the one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church! Lk 1:4
Matt 28:19, Lk 10:16, Jn 20:21
Acts 8:31, Colossians 2:7

Our understanding, study, interpretation, judgment, are all adding to scripture!

Our reason is part of fallen human nature and is defective.
Our holy religion is revealed by God!

Truth known by “hearing” the apostles not the “Bible alone”!

1 John 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

The apostles in person:

2 John 1:12
Having many things to write unto you, I would not write with paper and ink: but I trust to come unto you, and speak face to face, that our joy may be full.

Doctrine of the apostles: acts 2:42

And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

Matt 5:14 the apostles are the light of the world until Christ returns in glory!


Where in the Bible does it say that everything Christ did and taught, or everything we are to believe is restricted to the Bible. (read John 21:25, that says that not everything Christ did and taught is in the Bible. Yet Matt. 28:20 has Christ commanding the Apostles to teach all that He taught them. In fact, the New Testament wasn't decided until the late 4th century, when the Catholic Church went through over 300+ documents, praying to the Holy Spirit for guidance, and coming up with the 27 books we all agree on are the New Testament.

Christ didn't write a book to spread His truths, He founded a (one) Church, the Catholic Church, to do so. It would have been useless to found a Church based on a book, since the vast, vast majority of humanity was illiterate for the first 18+ centuries of Christianity. That would have effectively eliminated 95+% of humanity from learning Christ's message.

You might also review 2 Peter 1:20-21, where St. Peter warns against personal interpretation of Scripture.

 

[donadams]

Scripture Verses that contradict the “Bible is our ONLY AUTHORITY”!

Matt 5:14
Matt 13:11
Matt 18:17
Matt 28:19
Lk 1:4
Lk 10:16
Jn 8:32
Jn 16:13
Jn 20:21
Acts 1:8
Acts 2:42
Acts 8:26
Acts 8:31
Acts 18:25
Rom 10:15
1 cor 4:11
1 cor 11:23
1 thes 2:23
2 thes 2:15
Col 2:7
Eph 4:5
Heb 13:7
Heb 13:17
1 Tim 3:15
1 Jn 1:3-5
1 Jn 4:6
2 Jn 1:12
Jude 1:3

How can it be said scripture is “sole authority” or the only source of truth or the rule of faith when scripture says we must hear the church Matt 18:17 the apostles are the light of the world Matt 5:14 we must hold the doctrine of the apostles acts 2:42 the church is the pillar and ground of truth 1 Tim 3:15

 

[WIP]

I'm not going to go into it any further than this because there is no point in arguing about it, but the church, no matter what denomination, can and in many cases has become corrupt. Humans are not trustworthy and people often put too much faith in other people. The Bible on the other hand is the unchanging, solid, trustworthy source that we can rely on for instruction, correction, and reproof.

 

[donadams]

I'm not going to go into it any further than this because there is no point in arguing about it, but the church, no matter what denomination, can and in many cases has become corrupt. Humans are not trustworthy and people often put too much faith in other people. The Bible on the other hand is the unchanging, solid, trustworthy source that we can rely on for instruction, correction, and reproof.

So only what the apostles wrote has authority not the apostles themselves or what they taught in person?

 

[Hopeful 2]

Are they obsessed? Some certainly believe (mistakenly) that water baptism saves, but I don't know that this makes them obsessed with the idea...



Right. There is only one Savior and we can do nothing, no good deed, to contribute to his salvation of us.

John 14:6
Acts 4:12
1 Timothy 2:5
Ephesians 2:8-9
Titus 3:5-8
2 Timothy 1:9



Well, poorly understood, the New Testament seems to indicate that water baptism is necessary to salvation. But baptism is simply belief in action; it is the first instance (ideally) of a believer acting out what they believe concerning the Gospel; it is the "fruit," or by-product, of salvation, not the means of it. The relationship of saving faith to corresponding action is so inevitable and close, however, that some make them synonymous. A careful reading of Scripture, however, confounds this thinking.

John 1:12
12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name,

John 11:25-26
25 Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies,
26 and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?"

John 3:16
16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

John 3:36
36 "He who believes in the Son has eternal life..."

1 Corinthians 1:14-17
14 I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius,
15 so that no one would say you were baptized in my name.
16 Now I did baptize also the household of Stephanas; beyond that, I do not know whether I baptized any other.
17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not in cleverness of speech, so that the cross of Christ would not be made void.

Romans 10:9-10
9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

1 John 4:15
15 Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God.

1 Peter 1:8-9
8 and though you have not seen Him, you love Him, and though you do not see Him now, but believe in Him, you greatly rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory,
9 obtaining as the outcome of your faith the salvation of your souls.

If baptism is vital to salvation, how is that so many Scripture verses speaking of salvation do not mention water baptism? Belief, faith and confession are common to the matter of salvation in the New Testament, but not baptism.

I bet "baptism" is mentioned in the bible a lot more than "confession".

 

[Hopeful 2]

Hey All,
Hopeful2 wrote, "Why can't a man get water baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins with the same faith by grace Paul wrote of ?
Without baptism, there is no rebirth.
Is that something you are willing to risk at the mouths of interpreting nay-sayers ?"
(I copied and pasted because I don't know how to use the quote function here.)

Answer: Because the sins of the believer are forgiven at the moment of salvation.
Baptism does not make a person "born again."
Have you noticed the debate/discussion always centers on baptism? Nobody has a problem with the believing part.

Matthew 26:27-28 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;
For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

The blood of Jesus, as a pure and holy sacrifice, made the remission of sins possible. Remission activates when we confess our sins. We are cleansed from all unrighteousness at that moment. We become a new creations. We were born of water --natural childbirth. Now we are born of the spirit--born again.

Baptism did not save me. It did not forgive my sins. I knew in my heart (soul, gut, mind, whatever you want to call it) that I was saved the moment I believed. Baptism was my public confession of what had already happened. I did it out of obedience to Christ. It represented, physically, the death of the old man, and the resurrection of the new man. Keep walking everybody. May God,
Taz

I'm not too sure this is the place for posters to debate each other, so won't you please start new thread for this ?

 

[donadams]

Is baptism not part of what we must believe?

1 pet 3:20 …baptism saves us…

 

[Tenchi]

I bet "baptism" is mentioned in the bible a lot more than "confession".

The Bible never mentions pornography, or child-sex slavery, or putting people in concentration camps, either. And so?

 

[Josef]

Hey All,
I am not going through all the references Donadams. Again I will pick one and show you context. You can't pull these verses out of context and keep their original intent and meaning. I am going to pick the one you bold typed. Since you are yelling (the bold type) that is the one you are passionate about

1. The only reference in scripture to “faith alone” is James 2:24 NOT BY “FAITH ALONE”? quote from Donadams.
Let's look at the whole passage.

James 2:20-26 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Where in this passage does it speak about faith plus baptism. It doesn't. The point you trying to make doesn't exist either.
James is talking to the vain man. (vain --fruitless, ineffectual.) Knowing who he is writing to is very important.
The main points are:
1. Faith without works is Dead.
2. Abraham was justified by faith. (justified --vindicated or absolved)
3. Faith wrought with his works. (wrought -- effected, produced or-- faith caused or produced his works.) By works was faith made perfect. (When Abraham is doing the works God told him to do, what is that called? Obedience. Through obedience our faith is made perfect.
4. Abraham believed God. (Faith) and it was imputed to him for righteousness. (imputed --to rekon to one that which does not belong to him. Or simply put, grace--which means unmerited favor.) (righteousness --purity of heart, or salvation)
What is the simple way of saying how Abraham received salvation?
By grace through faith. (Where have we heard that before?)
What attributes did Abraham show us to prove his salvation was effective?
He had a relationship with God (friend) and he was obedient to God. (works)
Abraham's works happened subsequent to his faith--friendship.
James goes on and gives another example through Rahab.
Conclusion: Abraham was saved by grace through faith. His relationship with God gave him the ability to be obedient; even if he had to sacrifice his son Isaac on the altar. (Tell me that's not walking the walk.)

I am not going to do this to every reference. This takes time to compile. I am doing this show what it takes sometimes to rightly divide the Word. (1Timothy 2:15) I hope this helps. Keep walking everybody. May God bless,
Taz
P.S. I f this breaks some rule I apologize. It is hard for me to see error being passed along and not respond. However if that your job, then I will stop and let you handle it. Thanks, Taz

 

[Hopeful 2]

The Bible never mentions pornography, or child-sex slavery, or putting people in concentration camps, either. And so?

Are you equating "confession" with those ?
My point was that water baptism, and water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins, is mentioned many times in the bible.
More often than "confession", which you seemed to rightly value.

 

[Tenchi]

My point was that water baptism, and water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins, is mentioned many times in the bible.

I've never denied this. So, again, what's your point?

Are you equating "confession" with those ?

Did I equate them? Or was my point about the appearance of a word or idea in Scripture? Re-read my post to find out.

More often than "confession", which you seemed to rightly value.

And so? My wife's chocolate-chip cookie recipe refers to the actual baking of the cookies only once. Just once. But if that baking doesn't occur, the whole cookie-making project is largely pointless (neither of us will eat uncooked cookie dough, even if it has chocolate chips in it). The baking of the cookies is, then, crucial to the recipe but it is only mentioned a single time in the recipe instructions. My point - if you haven't got it yet - is that the repetition of a thing doesn't necessarily indicate its importance. The chocolate chips, for example, in the recipe get several mentions but we could leave them out, or substitute something else entirely for them, and still make cookies. It isn't, then, a good idea, logically-speaking, to argue for something's importance solely by way of the frequency of its being mentioned.

 

[Hopeful 2]

I've never denied this. So, again, what's your point?

If baptism wasn't important to salvation, it wouldn't have been mentioned so many times in conjunction with salvation.

Did I equate them? Or was my point about the appearance of a word or idea in Scripture? Re-read my post to find out.

That is what I asked you.
You put them in the same category.

And so? My wife's chocolate-chip cookie recipe refers to the actual baking of the cookies only once. Just once. But if that baking doesn't occur, the whole cookie-making project is largely pointless (neither of us will eat uncooked cookie dough, even if it has chocolate chips in it). The baking of the cookies is, then, crucial to the recipe but it is only mentioned a single time in the recipe instructions. My point - if you haven't got it yet - is that the repetition of a thing doesn't necessarily indicate its importance. The chocolate chips, for example, in the recipe get several mentions but we could leave them out, or substitute something else entirely for them, and still make cookies. It isn't, then, a good idea, logically-speaking, to argue for something's importance solely by way of the frequency of its being mentioned.

I am glad you realize that frequency doesn't necessarily mean importance.
Water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins is essential to salvation in the NT.

 

[Tenchi]

Water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins is essential to salvation in the NT.

Nope. It isn't. I've already explained why in earlier posts in this thread.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Nope. It isn't. I've already explained why in earlier posts in this thread.

And I know better than to have believed doctrines that would have robbed me of so much.

 

[gordon777]

Faith alone” Questions

where does ez 36: 25:27 Say “faith alone”?

where does scripture says we have died with Christ by “faith alone”?

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

where does scripture say we are members of Christ and his church by “faith alone”?

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

where does scripture says we put on Christ by “faith alone”?

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Where does scripture say our sins are washed away by “faith alone”?

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

where does scripture say we are saved or justified by “faith alone”?

1 pet 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!

The only reference in scripture to “faith alone” is James 2:24 NOT BY “FAITH ALONE”?

2 pet 1: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

How can you enter by your own if it must be ministered to you? Baptism is done unto you, “not do it yourself by faith alone”

Jn 3:5 born again by faith alone?

Where is “Accept Christ as your personal lord & savior” is found in scripture?

They did not go preaching this line but went immediately to the river and baptized Jn 3:22

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Eph 4:5 one baptism

Why don’t it say one teeny tiny little act of “faith alone”???

When we first believed we are saved?

Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

How can salvation be nearer than when we first believed if you’re saved by believing?

1 pet 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

Matt 24:13 endures to the end Shall be saved.

How can salvation happen when we first believed if it’s the end?

If salvation is by “faith alone” then faith would be the greatest!
1 cor 13:13 charity is the greatest!

Even all faith much less “faith alone” without charity avails nothing!
1 cor 13:2

Lk 8
The parable of the sower, all four had faith are they all not saved?


Lk 23:39 did not the bad thief say; save us? “Faith alone”?

Lk 18:14
Why did the publican not mention Jesus Christ or make a profession of belief, but prayer and virtue!

Why must we also suffer?
Faith alone not enough”?

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Phil 1:29 not called to believe alone but also to suffer for Christ’s sake.

Matthew 10:38
And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

Matt 24:13 endures “in Christ” to the end shall be saved.

Matthew 16:24
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Faith alone:


Matthew 17:20 And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.

Romans 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Galatians 3:5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Galatians 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

Galatians 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

Galatians 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Romans 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Hebrews 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.




You cant push water baptism onto anyone, all that is necessary to be true with God is to believe that Christ died and rose, baptized of the Holy Ghost. To love our neighbour as ourselves as Christ did, baptism is not taught now get hence. The cross of Christ is attempted to be made of no effect by people who do not acknowledge the preaching of the cross. ( the only belief that saves us.)



Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

1 Corinthians 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

 

[Tenchi]

And I know better than to have believed doctrines that would have robbed me of so much.

Uh huh.

 

[donadams]

Hey All,
I am not going through all the references Donadams. Again I will pick one and show you context. You can't pull these verses out of context and keep their original intent and meaning. I am going to pick the one you bold typed. Since you are yelling (the bold type) that is the one you are passionate about

1. The only reference in scripture to “faith alone” is James 2:24 NOT BY “FAITH ALONE”? quote from Donadams.
Let's look at the whole passage.

James 2:20-26 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Where in this passage does it speak about faith plus baptism. It doesn't. The point you trying to make doesn't exist either.
James is talking to the vain man. (vain --fruitless, ineffectual.) Knowing who he is writing to is very important.
The main points are:
1. Faith without works is Dead.
2. Abraham was justified by faith. (justified --vindicated or absolved)
3. Faith wrought with his works. (wrought -- effected, produced or-- faith caused or produced his works.) By works was faith made perfect. (When Abraham is doing the works God told him to do, what is that called? Obedience. Through obedience our faith is made perfect.
4. Abraham believed God. (Faith) and it was imputed to him for righteousness. (imputed --to rekon to one that which does not belong to him. Or simply put, grace--which means unmerited favor.) (righteousness --purity of heart, or salvation)
What is the simple way of saying how Abraham received salvation?
By grace through faith. (Where have we heard that before?)
What attributes did Abraham show us to prove his salvation was effective?
He had a relationship with God (friend) and he was obedient to God. (works)
Abraham's works happened subsequent to his faith--friendship.
James goes on and gives another example through Rahab.
Conclusion: Abraham was saved by grace through faith. His relationship with God gave him the ability to be obedient; even if he had to sacrifice his son Isaac on the altar. (Tell me that's not walking the walk.)

I am not going to do this to every reference. This takes time to compile. I am doing this show what it takes sometimes to rightly divide the Word. (1Timothy 2:15) I hope this helps. Keep walking everybody. May God bless,
Taz
P.S. I f this breaks some rule I apologize. It is hard for me to see error being passed along and not respond. However if that your job, then I will stop and let you handle it. Thanks, Taz

I never said these verses refer to faith plus baptism, they refer to either faith plus baptism or they oppose “Faith alone” 1 cor 13:2 & 13:13 Phil 1:29 James 2:24

Do you realize that in the context of ex 20 there are only 9 (nine) commandments

Thanks

 

[donadams]

Faith alone:


Matthew 17:20 And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.

Romans 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Galatians 3:5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Galatians 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

Galatians 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

Galatians 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Romans 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Hebrews 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.




You cant push water baptism onto anyone, all that is necessary to be true with God is to believe that Christ died and rose, baptized of the Holy Ghost. To love our neighbour as ourselves as Christ did, baptism is not taught now get hence. The cross of Christ is attempted to be made of no effect by people who do not acknowledge the preaching of the cross. ( the only belief that saves us.)



Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

1 Corinthians 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

Is not baptism part of what must be believed? Mk 16:16

 

[DJT_47]

So that scripture is saying baptism in water does not save but baptism by the ressurection of Christ as i read it.

It says Baptism is a good conscience toward the ressurection of Christ. The Spirit is life.

Like Christ said one cannot enter the kindgom until one be born of water and spirit that symbolised and he was talking about his death, burial, and ressurection.

Water and Spirit. Its Christ work and his baptism that saves and through him is one baptised in water and spirit and can enter the kingdom.

"Baptism doth also now save us" is pretty clear English language