Born Again?

[Atonement]

God loves you.. God loves each of you so dearly. How many of you have children? How much do you love your children? That love is not to be compared to the love that God has for each of you.

God came from His throne in glory, He gave up His riches to be poor, He gave up His majesty to be a servant, He came down because He loved you.

In His love do any of you really believe that God would turn someone away from eternal life because they were not baptized? The Bible clearly teaches baptism, but yet if a person surrendered their life to Christ, confessed their sins, cried out to Him in their spirit. Will a loving God turn them away because they were not yet baptized?

I have to trust that I serve a mighty God who is a righteous Judge! We may quarrel over doctrine but let us not loose hope in that God loves you so dearly, he wants nothing more then for you to be with Him! He searches the heart Jeremiah 17:10 to reward those of obedience!

I just felt lead to share this with you this evening

- LJ

 

[rrowell]

Can you please point out where a single passage of Scripture you posted says anything at all about Christians going to heaven?

John 14:2-3 (KJV)
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

I have never seen a verse that says the Fathers House or that Christ would ever set foot on earth again.


He will come like he left, but never mentions him stepping off that cloud...

 

[rrowell]

God loves you.. God loves each of you so dearly. How many of you have children? How much do you love your children? That love is not to be compared to the love that God has for each of you.

God came from His throne in glory, He gave up His riches to be poor, He gave up His majesty to be a servant, He came down because He loved you.

In His love do any of you really believe that God would turn someone away from eternal life because they were not baptized? The Bible clearly teaches baptism, but yet if a person surrendered their life to Christ, confessed their sins, cried out to Him in their spirit. Will a loving God turn them away because they were not yet baptized?

I have to trust that I serve a mighty God who is a righteous Judge! We may quarrel over doctrine but let us not loose hope in that God loves you so dearly, he wants nothing more then for you to be with Him! He searches the heart Jeremiah 17:10 to reward those of obedience!

I just felt lead to share this with you this evening

- LJ

Ephesians 5:6 (KJV)
6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

Yep, he IS LOVE, but he is a God of promise (no mater the promise).
And Baptism is a command, and to not be baptized is "disobedience"

Mark 16:16 (KJV)
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

 

[ezra]

Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. Matthew 18:3 (See Born Again)

 

[Atonement]

Ephesians 5:6 (KJV)
6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

Yep, he IS LOVE, but he is a God of promise (no mater the promise).
And Baptism is a command, and to not be baptized is "disobedience"

Mark 16:16 (KJV)
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

rrowell -

Thank you for your response, I know you mean well and the Lord is before you. However, I'm sadden by your reply - it hurts my heart to think that some believe that Christ's Blood was not significant enough. I see and read and know the Scriptures you have quoted, and the Word can be said and delivered in many ways.

rrowell -

If you can share with me without one's own opinion, the Scripture(s) for me to read by themselves, where it says that if one is not baptized they are not Born into the Kingdom?

The Scripture you quoted in Mark 16:16 does not say that he who is not baptized shall be condemned - it does say that who does not believe shall be condemned but notice the reference to baptism was not mentioned in that latter part of that verse.

We are commanded to teach and perform baptism and to make disciples. I'm not taking anything away from the importance of baptism and I believe all believers should be baptized; but I'm confused when did this become apart of the Atonement? Baptism is merely an outward expression of an inward change and by doing this we are being obedient to the Word. But you make this sound like an unpardonable sin.

 

[Atonement]

rrowell -

Thank you for your response, I know you mean well and the Lord is before you. However, I'm sadden by your reply - it hurts my heart to think that some believe that Christ's Blood was not significant enough. I see and read and know the Scriptures you have quoted, and the Word can be said and delivered in many ways.

rrowell -

If you can share with me without one's own opinion, the Scripture(s) for me to read by themselves, where it says that if one is not baptized they are not Born into the Kingdom?

The Scripture you quoted in Mark 16:16 does not say that he who is not baptized shall be condemned - it does say that who does not believe shall be condemned but notice the reference to baptism was not mentioned in that latter part of that verse.

We are commanded to teach and perform baptism and to make disciples. I'm not taking anything away from the importance of baptism and I believe all believers should be baptized; but I'm confused when did this become apart of the Atonement? Baptism is merely an outward expression of an inward change and by doing this we are being obedient to the Word. But you make this sound like an unpardonable sin.

An add on! Jesus also stated that we shall perform communion in remembrance to Him until His coming, and so if we do not perform communion are we not apart of the Kingdom? Luke 22:19, 1 Corinthians 11:23-26 as reference Scriptures: Is this also an unpardonable sin?

I just want to know what lines or theological boundaries one has. This can really hurt the faith of someone who may not have access to a local Church or is on Hospice and on their death bed and physically can not perform a baptism. Or someone who is being fed intravenously; will God turn these people away? From what I'm reading from some of you. It's saddens my heart to say this.... But that answer is.... Yes... Well that needs to be sited with no outside opinions and verified through Scripture alone or the faith of many is futile.

 

[rrowell]

rrowell -

The Scripture you quoted in Mark 16:16 does not say that he who is not baptized shall be condemned - it does say that who does not believe shall be condemned but notice the reference to baptism was not mentioned in that latter part of that verse.

It is simple logic by the conjunctive "AND", I have done this before, Ill do it again, its a simple truth table :

Mark 16:16 (KJV)
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

BELIEVE = Boolean variable value of TRUE or FALSE
BAPTIZED = Boolean variable value of TRUE or FALSE
SAVED = Boolean variable value of TRUE or FALSE

(SAVED = ((BELIEVE=TRUE) AND (BAPTIZED=TRUE))) THIS MAKES SAVED = TRUE

(SAVED = ((BELIEVE=TRUE) AND (BAPTIZED=FALSE))) THIS MAKES SAVED = FALSE

(SAVED = ((BELIEVE=FALSE) AND (BAPTIZED=TRUE))) THIS MAKES SAVED = FALSE

(SAVED = ((BELIEVE=FALSE) AND (BAPTIZED=FALSE))) THIS MAKES SAVED = FALSE

If one does not believe there is no need for baptism, they are already lost.

The very conjunctive word "AND" says BOTH are required to be "saved"

We are commanded to teach and perform baptism and to make disciples. I'm not taking anything away from the importance of baptism and I believe all believers should be baptized; but I'm confused when did this become apart of the Atonement? Baptism is merely an outward expression of an inward change and by doing this we are being obedient to the Word. But you make this sound like an unpardonable sin.

I think the above explanation and simple logical construction of Mark 16:16 proves you wrong (FALSE).

Do the math.

 

[Atonement]

I've asked for Scriptures.

Instead I was given a elementary school lesson

I'll consider this matter closed until the proper Scriptures can be quoted without outside opinion

 

[rrowell]

I've asked for Scriptures.

Instead I was given a elementary school lesson

Thank you for the School lesson - and for trying to belittle my education in the process.

Forgive me, it was not to belittle you, but you asked for scripture, it is Mark 16:16, and for some reason you think because it doesn't say "he that is not baptized is damned", when in fact it does.... you want another scripture.

 

[Atonement]

I want Scripture(s)

And it does not say that in Mark 16:16 but I will not quarrel over this matter. It's not edifying to my Spirit

 

[rrowell]

I want Scripture(s)

And it does not say that in Mark 16:16 but I will not quarrel over this matter. It's not edifying to my Spirit

I gave you scripture Mark 16:16, now I ask you for one that says "its an outward expression of an inward grace"?

 

[Atonement]

Thank you rrowell -

But I'm gonna just have to consider this matter closed until proper Scripture can be quoted.

You seem to rely on the Scripture of Mark 16:16 and yet turn the Scripture to fit your theology..

This is NOT what I want or need in my Christian walk. I want/need solid Scripture references, are you the Christian brother that can provide that? Or should I look else where?


God Bless you brother

- LJ

 

[rrowell]

Thank you rrowell -

But I'm gonna just have to consider this matter closed until proper Scripture can be quoted.

You seem to rely on the Scripture of Mark 16:16 and yet turn the Scripture to fit your theology..

This is NOT what I want or need in my Christian walk. I want/need solid Scripture references, are you the Christian brother that can provide that? Or should I look else where?


God Bless you brother

- LJ

The Eunuch, when did he rejoice? when he believed? or after he was baptized?

Acts 8:39 (KJV)
39 And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.



When did the Jailer rejoice? when he believed? or after he was baptized?

Acts 16:33-34 (KJV)
33 And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway. 34 And when he had brought them into his house, he set meat before them, and rejoiced, believing in God with all his house.

They rejoiced after they became in a saved state (baptized), not when they came to believe.

 

[savedbygrace57]

Being Born again is the result of having been in Union with the Risen Saviour, and by His Resurrection from the dead, all for whom He died are begotten again unto a lively Hope 1 Pet 1:3

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

The word begotten here is the greek word
anagennaō and means:

to produce again, be born again, born anew
2) metaph. to have one's mind changed so that he lives a new life and one conformed to the will of God


Its the same word born again in 1 Pet 1:23

23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

So its a brand new Life given to every sinner redeemed by the blood of Christ, which is for everyone Christ died for !

 

[Atonement]

Being Born again is the result of having been in Union with the Risen Saviour, and by His Resurrection from the dead, all for whom He died are begotten again unto a lively Hope 1 Pet 1:3

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

The word begotten here is the greek word
anagennaō and means:

to produce again, be born again, born anew
2) metaph. to have one's mind changed so that he lives a new life and one conformed to the will of God


Its the same word born again in 1 Pet 1:23

23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

So its a brand new Life given to every sinner redeemed by the blood of Christ, which is for everyone Christ died for !

savedbygrace57 -

I like that username

Thank you very much for your input. I hope you are having a blessed evening

-LJ

 

[elijah23]

Born Again?

Is there an accepted understanding amongst protestant churches, of what Born Again means.

If not an accepted meaning of Born Again between all protestant, would people please share their understanding, and give what denominations belief they are sharing?

I think different people define “born again†differently. Some churches make a big deal out of being born again; others don’t. To me it means the moment in my life when I genuinely accepted the Lord into my life.

 

[rrowell]

Being Born again is the result of having been in Union with the Risen Saviour, and by His Resurrection from the dead, all for whom He died are begotten again unto a lively Hope 1 Pet 1:3

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

The word begotten here is the greek word
anagennaō and means:

to produce again, be born again, born anew
2) metaph. to have one's mind changed so that he lives a new life and one conformed to the will of God

Must we go through this again?, First Peter 1:3 is not being "born again" as in being "saved".

All of the disciples (including the Apostles) were giving up on hopes of the Christ, when He died, their faith died with Him, (Even Peter was ready to return to his nets), but when he arose they were "begotten again" (they had already been "begotten"), they had new life in their faith in the Christ... their "spirits were lifted again by his resurrection"...

You miss quote 1 Pet. 1:3.

 

[Butch5]

John 14:2-3 (KJV)
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

I have never seen a verse that says the Fathers House or that Christ would ever set foot on earth again.


He will come like he left, but never mentions him stepping off that cloud...

rrowell,

That passage says nothing at all about heaven. "My Father's house" is the temple."

16 And said unto them that sold doves, Take these things hence; make not my Father's house an house of merchandise. (Joh 2:16 KJV)

The disciples heard Him say that and would understand my Father's house as the temple. He said in my Father's house there are many chambers, look at the description of the temple and the chambers that were there for the priests to stay in while they served. Look and see if you can find any reference to "my Father's house" as a reference to heaven.

Regarding Christ setting foot on the earth.

13 For the LORD has chosen Zion; He has desired it for His dwelling place:​

14 "This is My resting place forever; Here I will dwell, for I have desired it. (Psa 132:13-14 NKJ)

NKJ Zechariah 14:1 Behold, the day of the LORD is coming, And your spoil will be divided in your midst.
2 For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem; The city shall be taken, The houses rifled, And the women ravished. Half of the city shall go into captivity, But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3 Then the LORD will go forth And fight against those nations, As He fights in the day of battle.
4 And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, Which faces Jerusalem on the east. And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two, From east to west, Making a very large valley; Half of the mountain shall move toward the north And half of it toward the south.
5 Then you shall flee through My mountain valley, For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal. Yes, you shall flee As you fled from the earthquake In the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Thus the LORD my God will come, And all the saints with You.
6 It shall come to pass in that day That there will be no light; The lights will diminish.
7 It shall be one day Which is known to the LORD-- Neither day nor night. But at evening time it shall happen That it will be light.
8 And in that day it shall be That living waters shall flow from Jerusalem, Half of them toward the eastern sea And half of them toward the western sea; In both summer and winter it shall occur.
9 And the LORD shall be King over all the earth. In that day it shall be-- "The LORD is one," And His name one.
10 All the land shall be turned into a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem. Jerusalem shall be raised up and inhabited in her place from Benjamin's Gate to the place of the First Gate and the Corner Gate, and from the Tower of Hananeel to the king's winepresses.
11 The people shall dwell in it; And no longer shall there be utter destruction, But Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.
12 And this shall be the plague with which the LORD will strike all the people who fought against Jerusalem: Their flesh shall dissolve while they stand on their feet, Their eyes shall dissolve in their sockets, And their tongues shall dissolve in their mouths.
13 It shall come to pass in that day That a great panic from the LORD will be among them. Everyone will seize the hand of his neighbor, And raise his hand against his neighbor's hand;
14 Judah also will fight at Jerusalem. And the wealth of all the surrounding nations Shall be gathered together: Gold, silver, and apparel in great abundance.
15 Such also shall be the plague On the horse and the mule, On the camel and the donkey, And on all the cattle that will be in those camps. So shall this plague be.
16 And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles.
17 And it shall be that whichever of the families of the earth do not come up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, on them there will be no rain.
18 If the family of Egypt will not come up and enter in, they shall have no rain; they shall receive the plague with which the LORD strikes the nations who do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles.
19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt and the punishment of all the nations that do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles.
20 In that day "HOLINESS TO THE LORD " shall be engraved on the bells of the horses. The pots in the LORD'S house shall be like the bowls before the altar.​

21 Yes, every pot in Jerusalem and Judah shall be holiness to the LORD of hosts. Everyone who sacrifices shall come and take them and cook in them (Zec 14:1-21 NKJ)

This passage describes the kingdom to come.

 

[Atonement]

Must we go through this again?, First Peter 1:3 is not being "born again" as in being "saved".

All of the disciples (including the Apostles) were giving up on hopes of the Christ, when He died, their faith died with Him, (Even Peter was ready to return to his nets), but when he arose they were "begotten again" (they had already been "begotten"), they had new life in their faith in the Christ... their "spirits were lifted again by his resurrection"...

You miss quote 1 Pet. 1:3.

rrowell -

Good evening brother, may I ask why all the hostility in your post? I'm new here and have not read through the hundreds of pages so if I may suggest - If you have to "go through this again" a million times - please pray to have a humble spirit and the patience to do it in order to edify the spirit of a fellow believer in Christ Luke 8:15

If not for anyone else I would appreciate it because I'm new to the forum(s)

God bless you - I hope you are being blessed this evening

- LJ

 

[Butch5]

rrowell -

Thank you for your response, I know you mean well and the Lord is before you. However, I'm sadden by your reply - it hurts my heart to think that some believe that Christ's Blood was not significant enough. I see and read and know the Scriptures you have quoted, and the Word can be said and delivered in many ways.

rrowell -

If you can share with me without one's own opinion, the Scripture(s) for me to read by themselves, where it says that if one is not baptized they are not Born into the Kingdom?

The Scripture you quoted in Mark 16:16 does not say that he who is not baptized shall be condemned - it does say that who does not believe shall be condemned but notice the reference to baptism was not mentioned in that latter part of that verse.

We are commanded to teach and perform baptism and to make disciples. I'm not taking anything away from the importance of baptism and I believe all believers should be baptized; but I'm confused when did this become apart of the Atonement? Baptism is merely an outward expression of an inward change and by doing this we are being obedient to the Word. But you make this sound like an unpardonable sin.

Baptism didn't change, it was Christians who began to deny baptism's purpose. That's what changed. You won't find a verse of Scripture that says baptism is an outward expression of an inward change. Baptism's role in salvation was understood until the time of the reformation. It was at this point that Christians decided baptism wasn't necessary for salvation. For the first 1400 years of the Church they understood baptism correctly.