Bible Study Born again

[Bick]

So SB: are you saying all should "keep" the sabbath and pay the consequences as set forth in the Mosaic law, if one is judged to have broken it.?

Question: To be "born again" does one have to believe in a crucified Christ?

Bick

 

[SputnikBoy]

So SB: are you saying all should "keep" the sabbath and pay the consequences as set forth in the Mosaic law, if one is judged to have broken it.?

Question: To be "born again" does one have to believe in a crucified Christ?

Bick

Sputnik: Huh ...why are you picking on me? I don't recall ever having hit anyone over the head regarding the consequences for one's not keeping the Sabbath. There seems to be a bone of contention on this forum anyway in regard to what the 'Mosaic Law' was and is. As far as I'm concerned I'm not really concerned about all of the hype and theological claptrap that I keep reading. I believe that arguing against the merits of the Ten Commandments (which includes the Sabbath command) is not only ridiculous but futile.

The FACTS of the matter are this ...since most of mainstream Christianity goes along with a 'holy day' that was instituted by MAN (Sunday) they must therefore JUSTIFY their reason for having done so. The problem is, they can't really get rid of the fourth command without getting rid of the other nine. It HAS created quite a delemma for mainstream Christians and I feel for them. Anyway, they must therefore get rid of ALL TEN of the Commandments in order to rid us of the fourth. Understand?

There would be NO Christian today who would ever condone murder (well ...), dishonoring one's parents (Hmmm ...), committing adultery (not so sure about that one), coveting (not so sure about that one either), bearing false ... ...well, the truth of the matter is that I'm not so sure about any of them really. IDEALLY, however, a Christian WILL obey the commandments pertaining to God and those pertaining to his/her neighbor BY VIRTUE of their belief in a 'crucified Christ'.

Obedience to the moral law is really a pretty good measuring stick for displaying one's fruits of the Spirit. So, why are some so hell bent in wanting to rid us of the Ten Commandments? In order to get rid of the Sabbath ...that's why!

NOTE: Here is something that not too many seem to consider. MANY NONchristians know the difference between right and wrong and are dictated to by their conscience. One does not need to be a Christian to remain obedient to the principles of the commandments 5 - 10. One DOES, however, need to have committed themselves to Jesus in order to be obedient to commandments 1-4! Just a little food for thought.

 

[Ormly]

So SB: are you saying all should "keep" the sabbath and pay the consequences as set forth in the Mosaic law, if one is judged to have broken it.?

Question: To be "born again" does one have to believe in a crucified Christ?

Bick

Sputnik: Huh ...why are you picking on me? I don't recall ever having hit anyone over the head regarding the consequences for one's not keeping the Sabbath. There seems to be a bone of contention on this forum anyway in regard to what the 'Mosaic Law' was and is. As far as I'm concerned I'm not really concerned about all of the hype and theological claptrap that I keep reading. I believe that arguing against the merits of the Ten Commandments (which includes the Sabbath command) is not only ridiculous but futile.

The FACTS of the matter are this ...since most of mainstream Christianity goes along with a 'holy day' that was instituted by MAN (Sunday) they must therefore JUSTIFY their reason for having done so. The problem is, they can't really get rid of the fourth command without getting rid of the other nine. It HAS created quite a delemma for mainstream Christians and I feel for them. Anyway, they must therefore get rid of ALL TEN of the Commandments in order to rid us of the fourth. Understand?

There would be NO Christian today who would ever condone murder (well ...), dishonoring one's parents (Hmmm ...), committing adultery (not so sure about that one), coveting (not so sure about that one either), bearing false ... ...well, the truth of the matter is that I'm not so sure about any of them really. IDEALLY, however, a Christian WILL obey the commandments pertaining to God and those pertaining to his/her neighbor BY VIRTUE of their belief in a 'crucified Christ'.

Obedience to the moral law is really a pretty good measuring stick for displaying one's fruits of the Spirit. So, why are some so hell bent in wanting to rid us of the Ten Commandments? In order to get rid of the Sabbath ...that's why!

NOTE: Here is something that not too many seem to consider. MANY NONchristians know the difference between right and wrong and are dictated to by their conscience. One does not need to be a Christian to remain obedient to the principles of the commandments 5 - 10. One DOES, however, need to have committed themselves to Jesus in order to be obedient to commandments 1-4! Just a little food for thought.

The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.

Orm

 

[SputnikBoy]

So SB: are you saying all should "keep" the sabbath and pay the consequences as set forth in the Mosaic law, if one is judged to have broken it.?

Question: To be "born again" does one have to believe in a crucified Christ?

Bick

Sputnik: Huh ...why are you picking on me? I don't recall ever having hit anyone over the head regarding the consequences for one's not keeping the Sabbath. There seems to be a bone of contention on this forum anyway in regard to what the 'Mosaic Law' was and is. As far as I'm concerned I'm not really concerned about all of the hype and theological claptrap that I keep reading. I believe that arguing against the merits of the Ten Commandments (which includes the Sabbath command) is not only ridiculous but futile.

The FACTS of the matter are this ...since most of mainstream Christianity goes along with a 'holy day' that was instituted by MAN (Sunday) they must therefore JUSTIFY their reason for having done so. The problem is, they can't really get rid of the fourth command without getting rid of the other nine. It HAS created quite a delemma for mainstream Christians and I feel for them. Anyway, they must therefore get rid of ALL TEN of the Commandments in order to rid us of the fourth. Understand?

There would be NO Christian today who would ever condone murder (well ...), dishonoring one's parents (Hmmm ...), committing adultery (not so sure about that one), coveting (not so sure about that one either), bearing false ... ...well, the truth of the matter is that I'm not so sure about any of them really. IDEALLY, however, a Christian WILL obey the commandments pertaining to God and those pertaining to his/her neighbor BY VIRTUE of their belief in a 'crucified Christ'.

Obedience to the moral law is really a pretty good measuring stick for displaying one's fruits of the Spirit. So, why are some so hell bent in wanting to rid us of the Ten Commandments? In order to get rid of the Sabbath ...that's why!

NOTE: Here is something that not too many seem to consider. MANY NONchristians know the difference between right and wrong and are dictated to by their conscience. One does not need to be a Christian to remain obedient to the principles of the commandments 5 - 10. One DOES, however, need to have committed themselves to Jesus in order to be obedient to commandments 1-4! Just a little food for thought.

The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.

Orm

Sputnik: Okay. And, therefore ... ... ...?

 

[Ormly]

The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.

Orm[/quote]

Sputnik: Okay. And, therefore ... ... ...?[/quote]

..... any day and/or every day can't be a Sabbath to me, if I so choose.

Paul picked the first day of the week.

:Drm

 

[SputnikBoy]

The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.

Orm

Sputnik: Okay. And, therefore ... ... ...?[/quote]

..... any day and/or every day can't be a Sabbath to me, if I so choose.

Paul picked the first day of the week.

:Drm[/quote]

Sputnik: Scripture ...please!

 

[Lewis]

The Pope changed the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday on March 7,321 A.D. Which the Catholics should not have done. God said remember the Sabbath and keep it Holy. Hmmm, remember the Sabbath, that tells me that it should have been kept where it was at. Because God placed it on that day.

 

[Ormly]

The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.

Orm

Sputnik: Okay. And, therefore ... ... ...?

..... any day and/or every day *can't be a Sabbath to me, if I so choose.

Paul picked the first day of the week.

:Drm[/quote]

Sputnik: Scripture ...please![/quote]

Mark 2:27 (NASB-U)
Jesus said to them, "The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath.


If you do this.....:

Mark 12:30 (NASB-U)
and you shall love the Lord YOUR God WITH ALL YOUR HEART, and WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, and WITH ALL YOUR MIND, AND WITH ALL YOUR STRENGTH.'

.. then every day should be a Sabbath.

*In my last post the word "can't" should read "can". Sorry'bout that.

 

[Lewis]

then every day should be a Sabbath.

When Jesus was on earth did He change the Sabbath ? No, He did not, did God say change the Sabbath ? No, He did not.
Jesus kept the Sabbath on Saturday also. Yes we are to worship God everyday, but He sat a day a-side for the Sabbath, Because of the Catholic church the Sabbath was changed on March 7, 321A.D. Up until that time it remained on the day that God wanted it on.

 

[noblej6]

Hi forum,

This isn't a topic I have much interest in, but when did people start calling the sabath Saturday or name the days of the week period?

A link will be fine also,,,,,,,,,thanks

John

 

[Ormly]

then every day should be a Sabbath.

When Jesus was on earth did He change the Sabbath ? No, He did not, did God say change the Sabbath ? No, He did not.
Jesus kept the Sabbath on Saturday also. Yes we are to worship God everyday, but He sat a day a-side for the Sabbath, Because of the Catholic church the Sabbath was changed on March 7, 321A.D. Up until that time it remained on the day that God wanted it on.

Col. 2:16 (KJV)
Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

Leave it alone unless you wish to emphasize legalism and law to be OVER grace.

 

[SputnikBoy]

Leave it alone unless you wish to emphasize legalism and law to be OVER grace.

Sputnik: Hate to be a killjoy, Orm, but 'obedience' need not be 'legalism'. You might mark that down. Do you not believe that God EXPECTS obedience from us? Obedience to Him is we playing OUR part in the covenant between God and us. You see, a covenant is an agreement between two parties. Us: obedience to God. God: the gift of salvation for us. As long as you call yourself a Christian, obedience to God will be a matter of course. It has absolutely NOTHING to do with being legalistic. That's just a crock.

Also, would you please take note that 'grace' is NOT a new covenant phenomena. Since the beginning of humankind, God's grace has been available as a free gift for everyone. The sacrificial system was different, however. Please don't be making 'grace' as being something that is only now available to the NT Church. This is one of those fallacies that is leading so many astray.

 

[SputnikBoy]

Here's a challenge for you, Orm, or anybody. Of all the key biblical characters who gave their lives to God, those we might assume have attained salvation, how many of them were saved by keeping the law? And yet, apparantly they WERE obedient to God's Law anyway. How many?

 

[tzalam2]

Hi forum,

This isn't a topic I have much interest in, but when did people start calling the sabath Saturday or name the days of the week period?

A link will be fine also,,,,,,,,,thanks

John

I'm so glad you asked that. Very good question.
It should make people think.
Here's the ORIGIN of the occult rule, the root, of what dictated the naming of our days of the week. Pretty scary, when you think about it, how far we've been led astray. And, by whom? :

The Naming of the Days
The Greeks named the days week after the sun, the moon and the five known planets, which were in turn named after the gods Ares, Hermes, Zeus, Aphrodite, and Cronus. The Greeks called the days of the week the Theon hemerai "days of the Gods". The Romans substituted their equivalent gods for the Greek gods, Mars, Mercury, Jove (Jupiter), Venus, and Saturn. (The two pantheons are very similar.) The Germanic peoples generally substituted roughly similar gods for the Roman gods, Tiu (Twia), Woden, Thor, Freya (Fria), but did not substitute Saturn.
Sunday -- Sun's day
Middle English sone(n)day or sun(nen)day
Old English sunnandæg "day of the sun"
Germanic sunnon-dagaz "day of the sun"
Latin dies solis "day of the sun"
Ancient Greek hemera heli(o)u, "day of the sun"

Monday -- Moon's day
Middle English monday or mone(n)day
Old English mon(an)dæg "day of the moon"
Latin dies lunae "day of the moon"
Ancient Greek hemera selenes "day of the moon"

Tuesday -- Tiu's day
Middle English tiwesday or tewesday
Old English tiwesdæg "Tiw's (Tiu's) day"
Latin dies Martis "day of Mars"
Ancient Greek hemera Areos "day of Ares"

Tiu (Twia) is the English/Germanic god of war and the sky. He is identified with the Norse god Tyr.

Mars is the Roman god of war.

Ares is the Greek god of war.

Wednesday -- Woden's day
Middle English wodnesday, wednesday, or wednesdai
Old English wodnesdæg "Woden's day"
Latin dies Mercurii "day of Mercury"
Ancient Greek hemera Hermu "day of Hermes"

Woden is the chief Anglo-Saxon/Teutonic god. Woden is the leader of the Wild Hunt. Woden is from wod "violently insane" + -en "headship". He is identified with the Norse Odin.

Mercury is the Roman god of commerce, travel, theivery, eloquence and science. He is the messenger of the other gods.

Hermes is the Greek god of commerce, invention, cunning, and theft. He is the messenger and herald of the other gods. He serves as patron of travelers and rogues, and as the conductor of the dead to Hades.

Thursday -- Thor's day
Middle English thur(e)sday
Old English thursdæg
Old Norse thorsdagr "Thor's day"
Old English thunresdæg "thunder's day"
Latin dies Jovis "day of Jupiter"
Ancient Greek hemera Dios "day of Zeus".
Thor is the Norse god of thunder. He is represented as riding a chariot drawn by goats and wielding the hammer Miölnir. He is the defender of the Aesir, destined to kill and be killed by the Midgard Serpent.

Jupiter (Jove) is the supreme Roman god and patron of the Roman state. He is noted for creating thunder and lightning.

Zeus is Greek god of the heavens and the supreme Greek god.

Friday -- Freya's day
Middle English fridai
Old English frigedæg "Freya's day"
composed of Frige (genetive singular of Freo) + dæg "day" (most likely)
or composed of Frig "Frigg" + dæg "day" (least likely)
Germanic frije-dagaz "Freya's (or Frigg's) day"
Latin dies Veneris "Venus's day"
Ancient Greek hemera Aphrodites "day of Aphrodite"

Freo is identical with freo, meaning free. It is from the Germanic frijaz meaning "beloved, belonging to the loved ones, not in bondage, free".

Freya (Fria) is the Teutonic goddess of love, beauty, and fecundity (prolific procreation). She is identified with the Norse god Freya. She is leader of the Valkyries and one of the Vanir. She is confused in Germany with Frigg.

Frigg (Frigga) is the Teutonic goddess of clouds, the sky, and conjugal (married) love. She is identified with Frigg, the Norse goddess of love and the heavens and the wife of Odin. She is one of the Aesir. She is confused in Germany with Freya.

Venus is the Roman goddess of love and beauty.

Aphrodite (Cytherea) is the Greek goddess of love and beauty.

Saturday -- Saturn's day
Middle English saterday
Old English sæter(nes)dæg "Saturn's day"
Latin dies Saturni "day of Saturn"
Ancient Greek hemera Khronu "day of Cronus"

Saturn is the Roman and Italic god of agriculture and the consort of Ops. He is believed to have ruled the earth during an age of happiness and virtue.

Cronus (Kronos, Cronos) is the Greek god (Titan) who ruled the universe until dethroned by his son Zeus.

Sources
These sources are somewhat inconsistent. I have chosen interpretations that are predominate among sources or that seem most reasonable.
William Morris, editor, The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, New College Edition, Houghton Mifflin Company, Boston, 1976

Webster's Encyclopedic Unabridged Dictionary of the English Language, Portland House, New York, 1989
http://www.crowl.org/Lawrence/time/days.html


Most Latin-based languages connect each day of the week with one of the seven "planets" of the ancient times: Sun, Moon, Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn. French, for example, uses:
http://webexhibits.org/calendars/week.h ... sOfTheWeek
English French "Planet"
Monday lundi Moon
Tuesday mardi Mars
Wednesday mercredi Mercury
Thursday jeudi Jupiter
Friday vendredi Venus
Saturday samedi Saturn
Sunday dimanche (Sun)

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0002065.html
The seven-day week originated in ancient Mesopotamia and became part of the Roman calendar in A.D. 321. The names of the days are based on the seven celestial bodies (the Sun, the Moon, Mars, Mercury, Jupiter, Venus, and Saturn), believed at that time to revolve around Earth and influence its events. Most of Western Europe adopted the Roman nomenclature. The Germanic languages substituted Germanic equivalents for the names of four of the Roman gods: Tiw, the god of war, replaced Mars; Woden, the god of wisdom, replaced Mercury; Thor, the god of thunder, replaced Jupiter; and Frigg, the goddess of love, replaced Venus.

http://www.pantheon.org/miscellaneous/origin_days.html
Origin of day names
The names of the days are in some cases derived from Teutonic deities or, such as in Romance languages, from Roman deities. The early Romans, around the first century, used Saturday as the first day of the week. As the worshipping of the Sun increased, the Sun's day (Sunday) advanced from position of the second day to the first day of the week (and saturday became the seventh day).

Sunday
The name comes from the Latin dies solis, meaning "sun's day": the name of a pagan Roman holiday. It is also called Dominica (Latin), the Day of God. The Romance languages, languages derived from the ancient Latin language (such as French, Spanish, and Italian), retain the root.

French: dimanche; Italian: domenica; Spanish: domingo
German: Sonntag; Dutch: zondag. [both: 'sun-day']

Monday
The name comes from the Anglo-Saxon monandaeg, "the moon's day". This second day was sacred to the goddess of the moon.

French: lundi; Italian: lunedi. Spanish: lunes. [from Luna, "Moon"]
German: Montag; Dutch: maandag. [both: 'moon-day']

Tuesday
This day was named after the Norse god Tyr. The Romans named this day after their war-god Mars: dies Martis.

French: mardi; Italian: martedi; Spanish: martes.
The Germans call Dienstag (meaning "Assembly Day"), in The Netherlands it is known as dinsdag, in Danmark as tirsdag and in Sweden tisdag.

Wednesday
The day named to honor Wodan (Odin).
The Romans called it dies Mercurii, after their god Mercury.

SO. I have a question: if we, after knowledge of the days of the week, continue to adhere to this prescribed doctrine, are we sinning?
Why not be like the Jews, and follow their calendar?
Now that you know the days of the week were named after gods and goddesses, what are you to do with that, spiritually?
Or, do we just roll over, and keep on sleeping?

Are we propagating another rebellion against the Commandment of God, which says: thou shalt have no other gods before me?
It's an occluded idea, a subtle spiritual matter, but, why do you think the Jews of today still go by THEIR calendar, and not the calendar of the roman gods and goddesses?

One more question: Christmas is a pagan holiday, and the birth of Jesus was infused into the pagan/demonic holiday, by the Catholic church, in order to win more converts.
In other words, the Catholics, at that time, became "friends of the world".
Do you all celebrate this day as all the lost people do?
Do you know the reason behind the Christmas tree, the decorations, the yule log, santa claus, etc.?
OK, I'll get to the bottom line, and pose a question that I posed in a synagogue:
Does God ever ask a person to lie?
Does God ever condone LYING?
All the Jewish congregants unanimously agreed, NO, God never tells us to lie, and lying is a sin.
So, when you go along with SANTA CLAUS, and tell your children Santa is real, and you bring santa storybooks to your children, aren't you LYING TO THEM?
What does JESUS say about causing a little child to be confused?
HERE: But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.
Did you hear that?

 

[John the Baptist]

Hi forum,

This isn't a topic I have much interest in, but when did people start calling the sabath Saturday or name the days of the week period?

A link will be fine also,,,,,,,,,thanks

John

********
The Lord Blessed the 7th DAY, Sanctified the Day, Set it aside for Holy use, and you come up with 'not much interest in'?? Well then, By by!
---
And this below post says it all, it is just that simple! A very GOOD POST!
---John

Sputnik: Huh ...why are you picking on me? I don't recall ever having hit anyone over the head regarding the consequences for one's not keeping the Sabbath. There seems to be a bone of contention on this forum anyway in regard to what the 'Mosaic Law' was and is. As far as I'm concerned I'm not really concerned about all of the hype and theological claptrap that I keep reading. I believe that arguing against the merits of the Ten Commandments (which includes the Sabbath command) is not only ridiculous but futile.

The FACTS of the matter are this ...since most of mainstream Christianity goes along with a 'holy day' that was instituted by MAN (Sunday) they must therefore JUSTIFY their reason for having done so. The problem is, they can't really get rid of the fourth command without getting rid of the other nine. It HAS created quite a delemma for mainstream Christians and I feel for them. Anyway, they must therefore get rid of ALL TEN of the Commandments in order to rid us of the fourth. Understand?

There would be NO Christian today who would ever condone murder (well ...), dishonoring one's parents (Hmmm ...), committing adultery (not so sure about that one), coveting (not so sure about that one either), bearing false ... ...well, the truth of the matter is that I'm not so sure about any of them really. IDEALLY, however, a Christian WILL obey the commandments pertaining to God and those pertaining to his/her neighbor BY VIRTUE of their belief in a 'crucified Christ'.

Obedience to the moral law is really a pretty good measuring stick for displaying one's fruits of the Spirit. So, why are some so hell bent in wanting to rid us of the Ten Commandments? In order to get rid of the Sabbath ...that's why!

NOTE: Here is something that not too many seem to consider. MANY NONchristians know the difference between right and wrong and are dictated to by their conscience. One does not need to be a Christian to remain obedient to the principles of the commandments 5 - 10. One DOES, however, need to have committed themselves to Jesus in order to be obedient to commandments 1-4! Just a little food for thought.

****
Me again: The First table of Stone??? :wink: You are just spinning your wheels on that one with most here, (not all) 'me' thinks. They just don't care to understand that there are two tables, let alone how Christ divided them while here on earth, in importance. (or even the attorney of Matthew 22:35-40)

The only thing that the devil of Daniel 7:25 wants is the bottom line of your above posting! See Jude 11-12 'Winds' of stuff! And John talks of Babbling Babylon? :roll:

 

[Ormly]

Here's a challenge for you, Orm, or anybody. Of all the key biblical characters who gave their lives to God, those we might assume have attained salvation, how many of them were saved by keeping the law? And yet, apparantly they WERE obedient to God's Law anyway. How many?

You haven't acknowledged anything I've posted back to you per your requests, as being correct. Though suspicious before, I'm convinced now of the reason why. So no more challenges for me, Sput. You are just on a witch hunt to find something to get your teeth into. Sorry, I ain't interested in playing your game of foolishness. I know my Bible -- you need to learn yours.

 

[John the Baptist]

Here's a challenge for you, Orm, or anybody. Of all the key biblical characters who gave their lives to God, those we might assume have attained salvation, how many of them were saved by keeping the law? And yet, apparantly they WERE obedient to God's Law anyway. How many?

You haven't acknowledged anything I've posted back to you per your requests, as being correct. Though suspicious before, I'm convinced now of the reason why. So no more challenges for me, Sput. You are just on a witch hunt to find something to get your teeth into. Sorry, I ain't interested in playing your game of foolishness. I know my Bible -- you need to learn yours.

***
OK Sput's boy, 'anybody here':
Your question begs an answer! :wink: (skip the obvious verse of Acts 5:32, unless some think that they can be Born Again without having the Holy Ghost?)
So let me give the answer from 1 John 4:6 for which ones you ask of? You take your pick, but, remember that the penman here was in the spirit on the Lord's day of Revelation 1:10, huh!! :o

John was 'Inspired' to pen:
"We are of God: he that knoweth God, heareth us; he that is not of God, heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error."

 

[Ormly]

Hey John! I got one for you and I'm not on a fishing expedition.

You said that you were unworthy to untie Jesus' shoe laces and that He would baptise with the Holy ghost. Question: When did Jesus ever baptize anyone?

:Drm

 

[John the Baptist]

Hey John! I got one for you and I'm not on a fishing expedition.

You said that you were unworthy to untie Jesus' shoe laces and that He would baptise with the Holy ghost. Question: When did Jesus ever baptize anyone?

:Drm

********
Are you serious??? All Born Again ones are baptised with the Holy Ghost.
The Everlasting Gospel of Revelation 14:6 IS JESUS CHRIST! HE IS OF THE ETERNAL IMMORTAL GODHEAD!!

---John

 

[Vic C.]

Question: When did Jesus ever baptize anyone?

:Drm

Well, we may not have an actual written record, but the declaration that He will baptize with the Holy Ghost is surely there. All four Gospel records have an account to this.