Bible Study Born again

[noblej6]

Hi ormly,

Sure, I can do that. Sorry for causing John the Baptist the confusion there.

Ormly had a question in another post:

How is it then you can ever believe that one day the Lion will lie down with the Lamb?

Because I see that as being in the Heavenly afterlife situation. There is where the eternal peace we hear of is, not on earth .

I gather animals of all kinds must be seen in the afterlife and possibly participate because the bible says "if there is a natural body, there is a spiritiual body"

noble6

 

[Ormly]

Hi ormly,

Sure, I can do that. Sorry for causing John the Baptist the confusion there.

Ormly had a question in another post:

How is it then you can ever believe that one day the Lion will lie down with the Lamb?

Because I see that as being in the Heavenly afterlife situation. There is where the eternal peace we hear of is, not on earth .

noble6

Before or after the fall?

 

[noblej6]

Hi John the baptist,

But that still leaves nobel lost in real evolution! What can he
acknowledge that will help him to come to the Truth? He will not 'toss' out his Genesis 4:7 ideas of a (his) 'new sacrifice' of evolution for the True reason that the Word of God 'just' very simply states.. that God SPAKE AND IT STOOD FAST.

And you get 'instantly' for all the stuff created, out of the Psalm 33 and I don't.

And his 24hr. day junk does not even need a second thought! Plant Life could live without sunlight for thousands of years??? Even the 'whole' of the six days of creation began with the evening & morning making up the day.

So the 24 hours is junk, yes, I think so too.

SO: The man's moon landing is where a lot of this stuff really got its satanic evolution'ized stuff. Moon rock was brought back. Carbon junk!!

This is a serious display of ...well, it's a serious display.

Anyway: God SPAKE and when He did, how old was this then perfect created moon? The same question needs solved for other space debris.

Whatever are you talking about?

If these guys had been alive with God at creation, & again were given (again? We HAVE THE WORD OF GOD NOW!! THE WORD OF GOD!!) a piece of earth, moon or whatever, and God stated that He had again just then spoke it into existance? They would still be bringing the devils belief in God to the forums!

I guess this is denomination jargon or whaever, but try as I might, I can't get it to mean anything.

Born Again vrs. carnal ones, huh!

I don't use the born again term as it is being used here so that must mean I am this carnal one. So what is that?

noble6

 

[John the Baptist]

Hi John the baptist,

But that still leaves nobel lost in real evolution! What can he
acknowledge that will help him to come to the Truth? He will not 'toss' out his Genesis 4:7 ideas of a (his) 'new sacrifice' of evolution for the True reason that the Word of God 'just' very simply states.. that God SPAKE AND IT STOOD FAST.

And you get 'instantly' for all the stuff created, out of the Psalm 33 and I don't.

[quote:63a4b]And his 24hr. day junk does not even need a second thought! Plant Life could live without sunlight for thousands of years??? Even the 'whole' of the six days of creation began with the evening & morning making up the day.

So the 24 hours is junk, yes, I think so too.

SO: The man's moon landing is where a lot of this stuff really got its satanic evolution'ized stuff. Moon rock was brought back. Carbon junk!!

This is a serious display of ...well, it's a serious display.

Anyway: God SPAKE and when He did, how old was this then perfect created moon? The same question needs solved for other space debris.

Whatever are you talking about?

If these guys had been alive with God at creation, & again were given (again? We HAVE THE WORD OF GOD NOW!! THE WORD OF GOD!!) a piece of earth, moon or whatever, and God stated that He had again just then spoke it into existance? They would still be bringing the devils belief in God to the forums!

I guess this is denomination jargon or whaever, but try as I might, I can't get it to mean anything.

Born Again vrs. carnal ones, huh!

I don't use the born again term as it is being used here so that must mean I am this carnal one. So what is that?

noble6[/quote:63a4b]

*******
Thanks for being clear in your standing before God!
That is between He & you. You leave it for man to 'see'. My end of this is not you so much now, but the 'very evil' message that you are responsible for leaving for others to be confused with. See Like 12:47-48.

What is the troublesome issue now, is not your decision made, but what this site allows to be posted up for others to be confused with, while they do not allow much 'get behind me satan ' stuff, without the mention of 'be nice'???? I still think that the children of God are way tooooo professed goody, goody! See Isaiah 58:1.

OK: Having said that, be it known that God is a God of freedom to believe & 'post' (in earth anyway) what ever the devil's desired ones wish! Even evolution. I stand amazed that this site still has this God ordained freedom!! (so far) I understand also as I read from some moderators 'slips' perhaps? That they seem to be having a hard time keeping it that way. Such as a few 'things' that go by, by?? (such as posts, if not threads?)

Remember that from this end at least there is nothing personal meant in helping others see satan's work & workers exposed. See Isaiah 59:1-2 & then Daniel 7:25.


One last thought!! Off topic somewhat?? (for most at least!)
Every one who post on this site know that for some time now, the site has had a problem with the slowness of posting messages. And yes, it has been worked on as reported. But it still is not fixed?? I recommend, I say that I recommend meaning that management is no business of mine! so I am recommending to you'in who claim to be Christian's, who post on here all the time, perhaps we could see fit to take up a good offering to give the owner (s) or whatever? An send it for this 'repair work'! You know, put your money, where your heart is professed to be??

---John

 

[noblej6]

Hi Ormly,

Before or after the fall?

I assume before the fall and after the cross and the saving work Jesus did in the first century.

Titus 1:2

a faith and knowledge resting on the hope of eternal life, which God, who does not lie, promised before the beginning of time,

noble6

 

[noblej6]

HI JtB,

I asked once if there was a more appropriate place to discuss the creation/evolution topic, because it sure doesn't matter to me.

One thing from your post...is it me telling people things that the bible don't mean , or is it you. You haven't dealt with a whole lot of issues actually , you have just came back with quotes which you personally would apply to me because I don't agree with your interpretation. Lots of people don't agree with your interpretation.

What do you mean by this carnal thing as opposed to born again?

noble6

 

[Candidus]

I am new to the site and appreciate the moderators and owners of it allowing a forum for such a discussion. It is nice to be able to discuss these topics with people who actually care, instead of people who would rather stick a knife in you and take your money.

On the regard to the Sabbath I have read most of your post's. The question was put forth of if we are born again (I assume the reference is made to John 3:5) then do we need to uphold the Sabbath that God had instituted during the law of Moses for the Jews?

If that is not the question I apologize for being presumptous, but would like to address that one just the same.

When Jesus died upon the cross after preaching the kingdom of heaven was at hand He cried out, "it is finished".

As you look at that statement you have to wonder what was finished. His ministry, work upon the Earth, or institution of the law or maybe that He had come to save His people from bondage under the law?

I believe it to be all of the above. In Colossians 2:14-17 Paul states, "Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
Col 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ."

I thought you should see the scriptures in context instead of pulling out one little verse and saying this says we can all be unified and believe what we want.

Paul says in verse 14 that the handwriting of ordances that was against us. Who is the us? The Jews that is who Paul and his kinsmen where. What was against them? The Law of Moses.

The Jews had perverted the law of Moses, i.e., the Pharisees and Saducees binding things that could not be bound. Therefore, Paul said that Christ triumphed over them.
In verse 16, he is saying let no man judge you on these things, whether it be any part of the law of Moses or law of man. In verse 17, he speaks of the law of Moses is a shadow of things to come in that it pointed toward the Messiah coming, and then he finalizes it with the body is of Christ. Meaning the body, the church (Col. 1:18) belongs to Christ, not the old law or the patriarchal law or any law of man.

Therefore, the sabbath being part of that old law of Moses was put away.

Under the New Covenant of Christ we have example of the apostles meeting together on the first day of the week to worship (Acts 20:7). And an entire book of Hebrews that teaches us of the fulfillment of the old law.

I am not trying to pick on any group of people, but rather show that the Bible teaches us that we are to worship God in Spirit and in Truth on the first day of ever week in Song, preaching, collection of funds, Lord's Supper and prayer.

Candidus

 

[Ormly]

I am new to the site and appreciate the moderators and owners of it allowing a forum for such a discussion. It is nice to be able to discuss these topics with people who actually care, instead of people who would rather stick a knife in you and take your money.

On the regard to the Sabbath I have read most of your post's. The question was put forth of if we are born again (I assume the reference is made to John 3:5) then do we need to uphold the Sabbath that God had instituted during the law of Moses for the Jews?

If that is not the question I apologize for being presumptous, but would like to address that one just the same.

When Jesus died upon the cross after preaching the kingdom of heaven was at hand He cried out, "it is finished".

As you look at that statement you have to wonder what was finished. His ministry, work upon the Earth, or institution of the law or maybe that He had come to save His people from bondage under the law?

I believe it to be all of the above. In Colossians 2:14-17 Paul states, "Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
Col 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ."

I thought you should see the scriptures in context instead of pulling out one little verse and saying this says we can all be unified and believe what we want.

Paul says in verse 14 that the handwriting of ordances that was against us. Who is the us? The Jews that is who Paul and his kinsmen where. What was against them? The Law of Moses.

The Jews had perverted the law of Moses, i.e., the Pharisees and Saducees binding things that could not be bound. Therefore, Paul said that Christ triumphed over them.
In verse 16, he is saying let no man judge you on these things, whether it be any part of the law of Moses or law of man. In verse 17, he speaks of the law of Moses is a shadow of things to come in that it pointed toward the Messiah coming, and then he finalizes it with the body is of Christ. Meaning the body, the church (Col. 1:18) belongs to Christ, not the old law or the patriarchal law or any law of man.

Therefore, the sabbath being part of that old law of Moses was put away.

Under the New Covenant of Christ we have example of the apostles meeting together on the first day of the week to worship (Acts 20:7). And an entire book of Hebrews that teaches us of the fulfillment of the old law.

I am not trying to pick on any group of people, but rather show that the Bible teaches us that we are to worship God in Spirit and in Truth on the first day of ever week in Song, preaching, collection of funds, Lord's Supper and prayer.

Candidus

But I have to do some very important things on Sunday. What other day of the week should I consider as a Sabbath?

 

[John the Baptist]

Candidus here is an old post to let you know that some of us are way past your posting point. So we can handle more meat in substance. Here is the post about the meeting of Acts 15:

P/N/B/ here: (John)

You still do not get it! (i hope that, that is all the problem is) Read the whole chapter in context! Verse 1 & verse 5 tells you what the meeting was all about!!! It was Not about the ETERNAL COVENANT OF GOD!!!

It states in Inspiration the Words of Moses LAW. Not the Godheads Royal Law! Now, what have you talked about above??? Burdens?? That is what God's Covenant is to you, a BURDEN???? (again, you need to have a Born Again MIND!)

And Necessary things?? READ ECCL. 12:13-14! This the WHOLE DUTY OF MAN! Not any Jew either. Man as in Mankind! Which Keep the Commandments of GOD, that is the CONCLUSION OF THE *WHOLE MATTER! FOR GOD WILL BRING EVERY WORK INTO JUDGEMENT!! Again, for mankind!

Then, meats, blood, and strangled... Where on earth do you see anything like this in the 10 Commandments that God Himself wrote!???????Then you conclude with faith & shipwreck! I suggest that you read Heb. 6:1-6 for this, and 2 Peter 2:19-22 & tell us how this was possible with your theology?

OK: Back into Acts 15. Check the center index verses! In Gal. 2:11-14 the issue was with Peter before them all.. over CIRCUMCISION. NOT THE TEN COMMANDMENTS or the SABBATH one that seems to be hated the most. by some here. Then come verses 16-18 with more of the works of the ceremonial law. Take note! There is no WORK in OBEDIENCE OF THE ETERNAL COVENANT!! Christ say that "IF YE LOVE ME KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS". That is not BONDAGE WHEN ONES LOVES CHRIST! It is only BONDAGE TO THEM THAT HAVE NOT BEEN BORN AGAIN!! Gal. 3:10 CALL'S IT THE "BOOK OF THE LAW". Again Moses law was written in a book by him & placed in the side of the Ark, not INSIDE where the eternal Covenant of the Godhead was kept. Deut. 31:9 & verses 24-26.

Then we see the Word of bondage, begardly elements and , where unto how ye turn again to the weak and beggarly elements.. Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years. I am afraid of you'. Gal. 4:9-10 in part. (you can tell God how you can get His eternal Covenant of Heb. 13:20 wound up in that???) Then in Gal. 4:1-4 again we see NOTHING ABOUT THE ETERNAL COVENANT OF THE **GODHEAD!! [CIRCUMCISM]!! Circumcism is again the issue that Paul went up to Jerusalem for in the first place and about the law of Moses is what Inspiration documented!!

Now over in Ephesians 2:13-15 we see the law Moses pointed to CHRIST. (Even Gal. 3:19 told why it was added) Notice verse 15 of Eph. 2, it says "Having abolished the law of commandments contained in ORDINANCES ..." Again, not the Ten Commandments that God Himself wrote!

Did I miss going back to Acts 15? Well, you look at Acts 21:17-25, and you say that this is about the Covenant of God?? Paul is telling of the meeting that went on there with the brethren at Jerusalem. ".. how many thousands of the Jews there are which believe; [and they are all zealous of the law:] WHICH ONE FRIEND!!?? Acts 15:1 & Acts 15:5 had NOTHING to do with the covenant of God. It says circumcism & the *LAW OF MOSES. This is was the problem of the 'thousands of Jews that were there, that were zealous of the law' They knew of Paul having been preaching about what? Notice:

Verse 21 of Acts 21. And see if you can 'ditch' the Eternal Covenant of God by this verse? "And they are informed of thee, that thou teaches [all Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses], saying that they [ought not to CIRCUMCISE THEIR CHILDREN], NEITHER [TO WALK AFTER THE *CUSTOMS]."

This was Acts 15 TIME FRIEND. Again, you tell Paul that he does away with the Covenant of God! These Jewish converts at Jerusalem had heard about Paul and his (their) problem with Moses law & circumcism, and (for more proof!) Paul even at this time GOOFED BIG TIME! Verse 22-24. And verse 25? Is about God's 10 Commandment law?? Hog/wash! (just the Sabbath Day is really what the devil is really after, huh! Dan. 7:25!)

Verse 25 of Acts 21 is all about Acts 15's Circumcism & the Law of Moses!!.

"As touching the Gentile's which believe, we have written and concluded that [they observe [NO SUCH THING,] (no such thing as what? the ONLY THING UNDER CONSIDERATION WAS THE LAW OF MOSES!!) save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication."

If you can find any 'hint' from this that the ten Commandment Everlasting Covenant is or was even attempted to be suggested at here, you are far the worse that that of just not being Born Again! See again Heb. 6:6.

---Pastor N.B.

 

[SputnikBoy]

You sure do have a way with words, JbT. I THINK I agree with what you wrote above. I'm still not too sure. That Jesus or anyone else would EVER have intended non-obedience to God's moral commandments is unthinkable. And, I don't believe that ANY professed Christian would desire to do so.

I've said this many times before and I need to say it again ...the problem with the Ten Commandments for so many Christians is ...the Sabbath. The inconvenience of the fourth commandment of the Decalogue is the ONLY reason Christians need to get rid of the entire ten! Just think about it for a moment - a moment should be all that's required - and then tell me that I'm wrong. NO ONE would have any problem (ideally, anyway) with the other nine. If not for the Sabbath, the push for 'abolition' of the Ten Commandments would NEVER be an issue. It really wouldn't! The fourth commandment is the thorn in the side of mainstream Christianity.

The silly thing about this entire issue is that Christians will almost bend over backwards to get rid of the 7th-Day Sabbath. They come up with one scriptural text after another to try to prove their point. And then, after they've done that, what do they do? They come up with 'a Sabbath' of their own making anyway ...Sunday! ????????

The facts are, people N E E D one day of the week to set aside from the rest. God, in His wisdom, designed a day specifically for that reason. So, why this continual fight by mainstream Christians to rid us of the day that God blessed and made holy ...a day that Christians and nonchristians have proven that we REQUIRE? Oh, by the way, the Sabbath was made for M A N (Gr. anthropos, i. e. a human being) ...not only for the Jew!

This is not a denominational issue, it's a scriptural issue.

 

[TheScarletPimpernel]

Gal 3:11 Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for "The righteous shall live by faith."
Gal 3:12 But the law is not of faith, rather "The one who does them shall live by them."
Gal 3:13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us--for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree"--


Gal 2:14 But when I saw that their conduct was not in step with the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas before them all, "If you, though a Jew, live like a Gentile and not like a Jew, how can you force the Gentiles to live like Jews?"
Gal 2:15 We ourselves are Jews by birth and not Gentile sinners;
Gal 2:16 yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified. <--Thus by yr tradition making void the Word of God and many such things ye do. Mk7:13
Gal 2:17 But if, in our endeavor to be justified in Christ, we too were found to be sinners, is Christ then a servant of sin? Certainly not!
Gal 2:18 For if I rebuild what I tore down, I prove myself to be a transgressor.
Gal 2:19 For through the law I died to the law, so that I might live to God.
Gal 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.

Again! Take this thought and apply it to all scripture!

2Co 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

Be blessed!