By faith

[Josef]

Hey All,
Is John 3:16 correct?

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

If what Jesus said is true, and I believe it is, why is that not the end of the discussion.
It is not what Jesus said, and such-and-such.

Ah, but it takes faith.
Faith is not a work.
Your faith comes from God.

Romans 12:3
For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

Your faith to believe comes from God.
Ephesians 2:8-9 backs this up.
So faith is not a work.

Works! Ya gotta have works as a believer.
Ephesians 2:10 covers this.

Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

We walk in them. (Keep walking everybody.)
God performs His good works through the believer.
We are the vessel that God uses to do His good works.
He is the wine.
We are the bottle.
People always praise the wine.
Nobody says, "Gee, that wine bottle was amazing."
As a believer, I am honored to be the bottle.
So the good works are not ours.
They are God's.

But you have to be baptized to be saved.
I ask again.
Is John 3:16 correct?
If so, end of discussion.

Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz

 

[Who Me]

Jesus said " If you Love Me, obey my commands. "

What are good deeds/works etc if not acts of Love.

 

[Runningman]

Is the doctrine of "by faith alone you're save" Biblical?

Did God, the Prophets or Jesus taught such doctrine?

Sometimes Jesus seems to have just talked about believing, then other times he said one needs to keep God’s commandments such as in Matthew 19:17.

The idea isn’t we simply believe Jesus and then in word/deed completely disobey everything he said. He was clear that those who are workers of iniquity will be promptly told to depart from him.

Paul was also direct about this, saying “To those who by perseverance in doing good seek glory, honor, and immortality, He will give eternal life.”

So much could be said. In the end the judgement that results in eternal life is a works-based judgement. All will be judged according to their deeds, whether they be good and evil.

 

[Johann!@#]

>>>Good question.
I believe, faith and deeds go hand by hand without separation.
If I believe, then my deeds should be reflections of my deeds, and the opposite...
Example: If I believe in Almighty GOD when HE said, don't lie, and I lie, then my believe worth nothing till I repent from lies.
If I do good deeds, but believe not in GOD, then my good deeds worth nothing, and accepted not by GOD.

I hope I answer your question.

back again to mine: Did GOD, The Prophets or Jesus taught the doctrine of "by faith alone"?

The doctrine of "by faith alone" (sola fide) is a central tenet of Protestant Christianity, particularly emphasized by Martin Luther during the Reformation. It posits that faith in Jesus Christ is the only means by which individuals can achieve salvation, excluding all forms of good works or merits. However, to evaluate whether this doctrine was explicitly taught by God, the prophets, or Jesus, we must examine key scriptural references and the theological interpretations associated with them.

Old Testament Context: In the Hebrew Bible, righteousness is often associated with obedience to God's laws and commands, as seen in the covenantal relationship between God and Israel. For instance, Deuteronomy 6:25 states, "And it will be righteousness for us, if we are careful to do all this commandment before the Lord our God, as he has commanded us." The prophets consistently called Israel to repentance and adherence to God's laws, emphasizing a combination of faith in God and ethical behavior (e.g., Micah 6:8, "He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the Lord require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?").

There is no explicit teaching of salvation by faith alone in the Old Testament.

Jesus’ Teachings: The teachings of Jesus in the Gospels present a nuanced view that integrates faith with ethical living and obedience to God’s commandments. For example, in the Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 5-7), Jesus emphasizes both inner faith and external actions, such as love for enemies, forgiveness, and the practice of righteousness. Jesus' statement in John 3:16 underscores faith, "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life."

However, in Matthew 25:31-46, the parable of the sheep and the goats highlights the importance of good deeds in the final judgment. Therefore, Jesus’ teachings do not explicitly promote salvation by faith alone but rather a holistic approach that encompasses both faith and works.

Apostolic Writings: The Apostle Paul is often cited as a primary advocate of justification by faith. Key passages include Romans 3:28, "For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law," and Ephesians 2:8-9, "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast."

Paul contrasts the works of the law with faith in Christ as the means of justification. Nonetheless, Paul also emphasizes the transformative effect of faith that results in good works (Galatians 5:6, "For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but only faith working through love").

James, another apostolic voice, explicitly states, "You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone" (James 2:24), highlighting the necessary interplay between faith and works.

Theological Interpretations: The doctrine of "by faith alone" was systematized during the Protestant Reformation as a response to perceived abuses and theological issues within the Catholic Church, particularly the sale of indulgences and the emphasis on works in the sacramental system.

Martin Luther’s interpretation of Pauline theology stressed sola fide as a cornerstone of Christian salvation. This doctrine was further developed by Reformed theologians like John Calvin, who emphasized that faith alone justifies, but true faith is never alone and always produces good works as a fruit of faith.

In conclusion, while the doctrine of "by faith alone" is a significant theological stance within Protestantism, its explicit teaching is not directly articulated by God, the prophets, or Jesus in the scriptures. Instead, the biblical narrative presents a more integrated view of faith and works, where faith is the foundation of a righteous relationship with God that necessarily expresses itself in ethical living and obedience. The doctrine as formulated in the Reformation reflects a particular theological interpretation and response to specific historical and doctrinal issues rather than a direct scriptural mandate.
Copilot.

Hope this answer your question.
Johann

 

[Johann!@#]

Are you saying that a person JUST HAS TO BELIEVE in Jesus and he'll be saved, with NOTHING added?

For many Christians, the practical outworking of faith involves a life that reflects the teachings of Jesus. True faith is expected to result in a transformation of character and behavior, aligning with the fruits of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22-23). While salvation is viewed as a gift of grace that cannot be earned, living out one's faith in tangible ways is seen as an integral part of the Christian journey.

Could you explain what the word BELIEVE means in the Greek language that was used for the writing of the NT?

The word "believe" in the New Testament Greek is translated from the verb "πιστεύω" (pisteuō). This term encompasses a rich and multifaceted understanding that goes beyond mere intellectual assent or acknowledgment of facts. Here is a detailed exploration of the term "pisteuō" and its implications:

Etymology and Basic Meaning: The Greek verb "πιστεύω" (pisteuō) comes from the noun "πίστις" (pistis), which means "faith" or "trust." "Pisteuō" fundamentally means "to believe," "to trust," "to have faith," or "to rely on." It implies a deep, abiding trust and confidence in something or someone.

Intellectual Assent and Beyond: While "pisteuō" includes intellectual assent—agreeing with certain facts or truths—it also goes much further. In the New Testament context, to "believe" (pisteuō) involves:

Intellectual Conviction: Acknowledging the truth of the message of Jesus Christ, such as believing in His resurrection, His divinity, and His role as the Savior.
Trust and Reliance: Placing one's trust in Jesus for salvation and relying on Him as the source of eternal life. This trust is not passive but an active, ongoing reliance on Jesus in all aspects of life.
Fidelity and Commitment: A commitment to follow Jesus and to live according to His teachings. This aspect of "pisteuō" suggests faithfulness and loyalty to Christ, reflecting a personal relationship rather than mere belief in abstract doctrines.
Biblical Context and Usage: In the New Testament, "pisteuō" is frequently used to describe the response expected from individuals to the gospel message. Key examples include:

John 3:16: "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes (pisteuō) in him should not perish but have eternal life." Here, believing in Jesus is presented as the means to eternal life, encompassing trust and reliance on Him.
Romans 10:9: "Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe (pisteuō) in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." This verse highlights the necessity of both verbal confession and heartfelt belief.
James 2:19: "You believe (pisteuō) that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe (pisteuō)—and shudder!" This passage emphasizes that mere intellectual assent is not sufficient for saving faith, as even demons acknowledge the truth of God’s existence.
Faith as a Relational and Transformative Act: In the New Testament, belief is often depicted as entering into a relationship with Jesus Christ. This relational aspect means that to believe in Jesus is to know Him personally, to trust in His promises, and to be transformed by His Spirit. It is not merely a one-time decision but an ongoing, dynamic relationship characterized by growth in faith and obedience.

Implications for Christian Life: The comprehensive nature of "pisteuō" implies that true belief in Jesus encompasses the whole person—mind, heart, and will. It leads to a transformed life, where faith manifests in actions that reflect Jesus' teachings. This is why the New Testament often pairs faith with works, not as a means to earn salvation, but as evidence of genuine faith (e.g., James 2:14-26).

In summary, the Greek word "pisteuō," translated as "believe," in the New Testament carries a depth of meaning that includes intellectual agreement, trust, reliance, fidelity, and commitment. It signifies a holistic and transformative relationship with Jesus Christ, involving the entire being and resulting in a life that reflects that faith. This understanding challenges the notion of belief as mere mental assent, highlighting instead an active, trusting, and obedient relationship with God.

What did Jesus mean in
Matthew 28:19? WHAT did He teach the Apostles??
19“Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,
20teaching them to observe all that I commanded you...

Text Analysis
"Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations":

Mandate for Mission: The command "go" (Greek: πορευθέντες, poreuthentes) indicates an imperative for the disciples to take action. This involves leaving their current locations and actively engaging in the mission.
Making Disciples: The primary command is to "make disciples" (Greek: μαθητεύσατε, matheteusate). A disciple (Greek: μαθητής, mathetes) is more than a follower; it is a student who learns and lives according to the teachings of the master. Jesus is instructing His followers to cultivate committed, lifelong learners who adhere to His teachings.
Inclusivity: "Of all the nations" (Greek: πάντα τὰ ἔθνη, panta ta ethnē) signifies the universal scope of this mission. It is not limited to the Jewish people but extends to every ethnic group and nation, highlighting the inclusive nature of the Christian message.
"Baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit":

Baptism: The act of baptizing (Greek: βαπτίζοντες, baptizontes) is both a symbolic and sacramental act of initiation into the Christian faith. It represents purification, the washing away of sins, and the believer's identification with the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus (Romans 6:3-4).
Trinitarian Formula: "In the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit" is a distinctively Trinitarian expression. This formula indicates that Christian baptism is done under the authority of the Triune God. It encapsulates the unity and co-equality of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, reflecting the core Christian doctrine of the Trinity.
"Teaching them to observe all that I commanded you":

Comprehensive Teaching: The task of "teaching" (Greek: διδάσκοντες, didaskontes) involves more than imparting knowledge; it includes guiding new disciples to "observe" or obey (Greek: τηρεῖν, têreîn) all of Jesus' commands. This underscores the importance of living out the teachings of Jesus in everyday life.
Holistic Obedience: "All that I commanded you" indicates the breadth and depth of Jesus' teachings. This includes His ethical instructions, parables, teachings on the Kingdom of God, and directives on love, forgiveness, humility, and service. It emphasizes a holistic discipleship that encompasses every aspect of life.
"And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age":

Promise of Presence: Jesus concludes with a reassurance of His continuous presence (Greek: ἐγὼ μεθ’ ὑμῶν εἰμι, egō meth’ humōn eimi). This promise (Greek: ἑωσ, heōs) provides comfort and encouragement to the disciples, assuring them that they will not undertake this mission alone.

Eschatological Assurance: "To the end of the age" (Greek: συντελείας τοῦ αἰῶνος, synteleias tou aiōnos) refers to the present era until Jesus' return. It reassures believers of Jesus' perpetual presence and support until the consummation of the Kingdom of God.

Implications for the Apostles and Christian Mission
Missionary Zeal: The Apostles were to be proactive in spreading the gospel message beyond their immediate cultural and geographical boundaries. This directive laid the foundation for the global missionary movement.
Baptism as Initiation: Baptism became the formal rite of initiation into the Christian community, symbolizing repentance, regeneration, and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

Holistic Discipleship: The Apostles were to provide comprehensive teaching that led to transformed lives, emphasizing obedience to all of Jesus' commands rather than selective adherence.
Trinitarian Foundation: The Trinitarian formula for baptism highlighted the foundational Christian belief in the Triune God, shaping the theological understanding and worship practices of the early church.
Continuous Presence: Jesus' assurance of His presence gave the Apostles confidence and resilience, knowing that they were empowered and accompanied by the risen Christ through the Holy Spirit.

Conclusion
In Matthew 28:19-20, Jesus commissions His Apostles to engage in a universal mission of disciple-making, grounded in the Trinitarian nature of God, involving baptism and comprehensive teaching of His commandments. This directive emphasizes active mission work, the importance of baptism as a public declaration of faith, and the need for ongoing teaching and obedience to Jesus' teachings. The promise of His enduring presence provides assurance and support, empowering the Apostles and future Christians to faithfully carry out this mission until the end of the age.

1. What is a disciple?

2. What did Jesus command?
3. What were the Apostles supposed to teach?

Could you explain what the word BELIEVE means in the Greek language that was used for the writing of the NT?

 

[Johann!@#]

Salvation by works is completely rejected by the NT.

The New Testament (NT) teaches that salvation is not achieved through human works but through faith in Jesus Christ. This doctrine is central to the writings of the Apostle Paul and is a cornerstone of Christian theology, especially within Protestant traditions. However, the NT also emphasizes that genuine faith will naturally produce good works. Here is a detailed examination of this theological concept:

Salvation by Faith, Not by Works
Pauline Epistles:
Ephesians 2:8-9: "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast." This passage clearly states that salvation is by grace through faith, a gift from God, and not something earned by works.

Romans 3:28: "For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law." Paul argues that justification (being declared righteous before God) comes through faith and not by observing the law.

Galatians 2:16: "Yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified."

The Role of Works in the Life of a Believer
Faith Producing Works:

James 2:17: "So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead." James emphasizes that genuine faith will inevitably result in good works. He is not contradicting Paul but highlighting that true faith is demonstrated through actions.

James 2:24: "You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone." This verse can be confusing if taken out of context, but James is discussing the evidence of faith. He teaches that true faith will manifest in righteous behavior, not that works earn salvation.
Jesus' Teachings:

Matthew 7:21: "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven." Jesus underscores that mere verbal profession of faith is insufficient without doing God's will.

John 15:5: "I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing." Jesus teaches that abiding in Him will naturally produce fruit (good works).

Synthesis of Faith and Works
Synergy of Faith and Works: The NT presents a synergistic relationship between faith and works. Salvation is received by faith alone, but this faith is never alone—it is accompanied by works that evidence the transformative power of the Holy Spirit in a believer’s life (Ephesians 2:10, "For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them").

Paul and James in Harmony: Paul emphasizes the root of salvation (faith), while James emphasizes the fruit of salvation (works). Both agree that works are not the means of salvation but are the natural outcome of genuine faith.

Conclusion
Salvation by works is indeed rejected by the NT in the sense that human efforts cannot achieve salvation. Instead, salvation is by grace through faith in Jesus Christ. However, the NT equally teaches that genuine faith will produce good works as a natural outflow of a transformed life. Therefore, while works are not the basis for salvation, they are the evidence of a living and active faith. This balanced view harmonizes the teachings of Paul and James and reflects the broader NT message about faith and works.

Shalom
Johann

 

[Johann!@#]

That we are justified by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone is completely biblical. It is the biblical teaching on justification. Anything else is to add works which is unbiblical.

Should I disagree with you-would I be in trouble?

 

[GodsGrace]

For many Christians, the practical outworking of faith involves a life that reflects the teachings of Jesus. True faith is expected to result in a transformation of character and behavior, aligning with the fruits of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22-23). While salvation is viewed as a gift of grace that cannot be earned, living out one's faith in tangible ways is seen as an integral part of the Christian journey.

The word "believe" in the New Testament Greek is translated from the verb "πιστεύω" (pisteuō). This term encompasses a rich and multifaceted understanding that goes beyond mere intellectual assent or acknowledgment of facts. Here is a detailed exploration of the term "pisteuō" and its implications:

Etymology and Basic Meaning: The Greek verb "πιστεύω" (pisteuō) comes from the noun "πίστις" (pistis), which means "faith" or "trust." "Pisteuō" fundamentally means "to believe," "to trust," "to have faith," or "to rely on." It implies a deep, abiding trust and confidence in something or someone.

Intellectual Assent and Beyond: While "pisteuō" includes intellectual assent—agreeing with certain facts or truths—it also goes much further. In the New Testament context, to "believe" (pisteuō) involves:

Intellectual Conviction: Acknowledging the truth of the message of Jesus Christ, such as believing in His resurrection, His divinity, and His role as the Savior.
Trust and Reliance: Placing one's trust in Jesus for salvation and relying on Him as the source of eternal life. This trust is not passive but an active, ongoing reliance on Jesus in all aspects of life.
Fidelity and Commitment: A commitment to follow Jesus and to live according to His teachings. This aspect of "pisteuō" suggests faithfulness and loyalty to Christ, reflecting a personal relationship rather than mere belief in abstract doctrines.
Biblical Context and Usage: In the New Testament, "pisteuō" is frequently used to describe the response expected from individuals to the gospel message. Key examples include:

John 3:16: "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes (pisteuō) in him should not perish but have eternal life." Here, believing in Jesus is presented as the means to eternal life, encompassing trust and reliance on Him.
Romans 10:9: "Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe (pisteuō) in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." This verse highlights the necessity of both verbal confession and heartfelt belief.
James 2:19: "You believe (pisteuō) that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe (pisteuō)—and shudder!" This passage emphasizes that mere intellectual assent is not sufficient for saving faith, as even demons acknowledge the truth of God’s existence.
Faith as a Relational and Transformative Act: In the New Testament, belief is often depicted as entering into a relationship with Jesus Christ. This relational aspect means that to believe in Jesus is to know Him personally, to trust in His promises, and to be transformed by His Spirit. It is not merely a one-time decision but an ongoing, dynamic relationship characterized by growth in faith and obedience.

Implications for Christian Life: The comprehensive nature of "pisteuō" implies that true belief in Jesus encompasses the whole person—mind, heart, and will. It leads to a transformed life, where faith manifests in actions that reflect Jesus' teachings. This is why the New Testament often pairs faith with works, not as a means to earn salvation, but as evidence of genuine faith (e.g., James 2:14-26).

In summary, the Greek word "pisteuō," translated as "believe," in the New Testament carries a depth of meaning that includes intellectual agreement, trust, reliance, fidelity, and commitment. It signifies a holistic and transformative relationship with Jesus Christ, involving the entire being and resulting in a life that reflects that faith. This understanding challenges the notion of belief as mere mental assent, highlighting instead an active, trusting, and obedient relationship with God.

Text Analysis
"Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations":

Mandate for Mission: The command "go" (Greek: πορευθέντες, poreuthentes) indicates an imperative for the disciples to take action. This involves leaving their current locations and actively engaging in the mission.
Making Disciples: The primary command is to "make disciples" (Greek: μαθητεύσατε, matheteusate). A disciple (Greek: μαθητής, mathetes) is more than a follower; it is a student who learns and lives according to the teachings of the master. Jesus is instructing His followers to cultivate committed, lifelong learners who adhere to His teachings.
Inclusivity: "Of all the nations" (Greek: πάντα τὰ ἔθνη, panta ta ethnē) signifies the universal scope of this mission. It is not limited to the Jewish people but extends to every ethnic group and nation, highlighting the inclusive nature of the Christian message.
"Baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit":

Baptism: The act of baptizing (Greek: βαπτίζοντες, baptizontes) is both a symbolic and sacramental act of initiation into the Christian faith. It represents purification, the washing away of sins, and the believer's identification with the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus (Romans 6:3-4).
Trinitarian Formula: "In the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit" is a distinctively Trinitarian expression. This formula indicates that Christian baptism is done under the authority of the Triune God. It encapsulates the unity and co-equality of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, reflecting the core Christian doctrine of the Trinity.
"Teaching them to observe all that I commanded you":

Comprehensive Teaching: The task of "teaching" (Greek: διδάσκοντες, didaskontes) involves more than imparting knowledge; it includes guiding new disciples to "observe" or obey (Greek: τηρεῖν, têreîn) all of Jesus' commands. This underscores the importance of living out the teachings of Jesus in everyday life.
Holistic Obedience: "All that I commanded you" indicates the breadth and depth of Jesus' teachings. This includes His ethical instructions, parables, teachings on the Kingdom of God, and directives on love, forgiveness, humility, and service. It emphasizes a holistic discipleship that encompasses every aspect of life.
"And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age":

Promise of Presence: Jesus concludes with a reassurance of His continuous presence (Greek: ἐγὼ μεθ’ ὑμῶν εἰμι, egō meth’ humōn eimi). This promise (Greek: ἑωσ, heōs) provides comfort and encouragement to the disciples, assuring them that they will not undertake this mission alone.

Eschatological Assurance: "To the end of the age" (Greek: συντελείας τοῦ αἰῶνος, synteleias tou aiōnos) refers to the present era until Jesus' return. It reassures believers of Jesus' perpetual presence and support until the consummation of the Kingdom of God.

Implications for the Apostles and Christian Mission
Missionary Zeal: The Apostles were to be proactive in spreading the gospel message beyond their immediate cultural and geographical boundaries. This directive laid the foundation for the global missionary movement.
Baptism as Initiation: Baptism became the formal rite of initiation into the Christian community, symbolizing repentance, regeneration, and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

Holistic Discipleship: The Apostles were to provide comprehensive teaching that led to transformed lives, emphasizing obedience to all of Jesus' commands rather than selective adherence.
Trinitarian Foundation: The Trinitarian formula for baptism highlighted the foundational Christian belief in the Triune God, shaping the theological understanding and worship practices of the early church.
Continuous Presence: Jesus' assurance of His presence gave the Apostles confidence and resilience, knowing that they were empowered and accompanied by the risen Christ through the Holy Spirit.

Conclusion
In Matthew 28:19-20, Jesus commissions His Apostles to engage in a universal mission of disciple-making, grounded in the Trinitarian nature of God, involving baptism and comprehensive teaching of His commandments. This directive emphasizes active mission work, the importance of baptism as a public declaration of faith, and the need for ongoing teaching and obedience to Jesus' teachings. The promise of His enduring presence provides assurance and support, empowering the Apostles and future Christians to faithfully carry out this mission until the end of the age.

:nod

Great post J.

You covered every abase and I especially like how you explained what the word BELEIVE means.
It's imperative, IMO, to understand what this believes since some Christians do not.

I've copied your post because I get into this discussion often and I appreciate how you explained it.
Mine is the same, but in words far less important than yours.

 

[GodsGrace]

Should I disagree with you-would I be in trouble?

As long as you follow the TOS rules you can say what you wish to whom you wish.
There is no censuring on this site.

 

[Johann!@#]

:nod

Great post J.

You covered every abase and I especially like how you explained what the word BELEIVE means.
It's imperative, IMO, to understand what this believes since some Christians do not.

I've copied your post because I get into this discussion often and I appreciate how you explained it.
Mine is the same, but in words far less important than yours.

Not only in the Imperative GodsGrace --

In the New Testament, the verb "believe" (Greek: πιστεύω, pisteuó) appears in various forms, including the imperative mood, but it is not always in the imperative mood. The imperative mood is used to give commands or make requests. Let's explore how the verb "believe" is used in different contexts:

Examples of "Believe" in the New Testament:
Imperative Mood:

John 14:1: "Let not your hearts be troubled. Believe in God; believe also in me."
In this verse, the imperative "believe" (πιστεύετε, pisteuete) is used to command or encourage the disciples to have faith in God and in Jesus.

Acts 16:31: "And they said, 'Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.'"
Here, the imperative "believe" (πίστευσον, pisteuson) is part of the instruction given by Paul and Silas to the Philippian jailer.

Indicative Mood:

John 3:16: "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life."

The verb "believes" (πιστεύων, pisteuōn) in this famous verse is in the present participle form, which is indicative of ongoing or habitual belief. It describes the action of believing as a statement of fact rather than a command.

Acts 8:12: "But when they believed Philip as he preached good news about the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women."

Here, "believed" (ἐπίστευσαν, episteusan) is in the aorist indicative mood, indicating a past completed action. It describes what the people did in response to Philip's preaching.

Subjunctive Mood:

John 20:31: "but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name."

The verb "may believe" (πιστεύσητε, pisteusēte) is in the aorist subjunctive mood, expressing the purpose or intention of the writing of the Gospel of John.

Conclusion:
While the imperative mood is indeed used in some instances to command or encourage belief in the New Testament, the verb "believe" (πιστεύω, pisteuó) also appears in other moods, such as the indicative and subjunctive, to express statements of fact, purpose, or intention. The use of different moods reflects the diverse contexts and purposes of the New Testament writings, emphasizing the importance of faith in the Christian life.

God bless
J.

 

[GodsGrace]

Not only in the Imperative GodsGrace --

In the New Testament, the verb "believe" (Greek: πιστεύω, pisteuó) appears in various forms, including the imperative mood, but it is not always in the imperative mood. The imperative mood is used to give commands or make requests. Let's explore how the verb "believe" is used in different contexts:

Examples of "Believe" in the New Testament:
Imperative Mood:

John 14:1: "Let not your hearts be troubled. Believe in God; believe also in me."
In this verse, the imperative "believe" (πιστεύετε, pisteuete) is used to command or encourage the disciples to have faith in God and in Jesus.

Acts 16:31: "And they said, 'Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.'"
Here, the imperative "believe" (πίστευσον, pisteuson) is part of the instruction given by Paul and Silas to the Philippian jailer.

Indicative Mood:

John 3:16: "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life."

The verb "believes" (πιστεύων, pisteuōn) in this famous verse is in the present participle form, which is indicative of ongoing or habitual belief. It describes the action of believing as a statement of fact rather than a command.

Acts 8:12: "But when they believed Philip as he preached good news about the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women."

Here, "believed" (ἐπίστευσαν, episteusan) is in the aorist indicative mood, indicating a past completed action. It describes what the people did in response to Philip's preaching.

Subjunctive Mood:

John 20:31: "but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name."

The verb "may believe" (πιστεύσητε, pisteusēte) is in the aorist subjunctive mood, expressing the purpose or intention of the writing of the Gospel of John.

Conclusion:
While the imperative mood is indeed used in some instances to command or encourage belief in the New Testament, the verb "believe" (πιστεύω, pisteuó) also appears in other moods, such as the indicative and subjunctive, to express statements of fact, purpose, or intention. The use of different moods reflects the diverse contexts and purposes of the New Testament writings, emphasizing the importance of faith in the Christian life.

God bless
J.

Perfect.
And you've hit upon a matter regarding the aorist tense.
It's not really a tense in the way that we westerners understand it to be.
A Greek teacher/theologian friend of mine explained to me that it has more to do with an action than a time when that action takes place.

I THINK that's what you're stating above.

What I do know for sure and depend on is this:
The NT is a complete thought.
It cannot be taken apart sentence by sentence, verse by verse, word by word, and maybe even paragraph by paragraph.

We must read through it and come to terms with what God is trying to teach us.
In this case, Jesus is doing the teaching....
God Himself.

 

[Johann!@#]

Perfect.
And you've hit upon a matter regarding the aorist tense.
It's not really a tense in the way that we westerners understand it to be.
A Greek teacher/theologian friend of mine explained to me that it has more to do with an action than a time when that action takes place.

I THINK that's what you're stating above.

What I do know for sure and depend on is this:
The NT is a complete thought.
It cannot be taken apart sentence by sentence, verse by verse, word by word, and maybe even paragraph by paragraph.

We must read through it and come to terms with what God is trying to teach us.
In this case, Jesus is doing the teaching....
God Himself.

Correct-and we have Aorist's in different Tenses and need to determine context-as I am a great believer in context and as you so aptly conclude-Jesus is our great teacher and so is the Holy Spirit.

In the New Testament, the Aorist tense is one of the primary past tenses used in Greek grammar. It is a versatile tense that can convey various nuances of action, depending on the context. Here are some key aspects of the Aorist tense and its meanings in the New Testament:

1. Simple Past Action:
The Aorist tense often denotes a simple past action, describing an event that occurred at a specific point in time in the past.

Example: Matthew 3:16 - "And when Jesus was baptized, immediately he went up from the water..."
The verb "was baptized" (ἐβαπτίσθη, ebaptisthē) is in the Aorist tense, indicating a single action in the past, namely, the moment when Jesus was baptized by John.

2. Historical Narrative:
In historical narrative passages, the Aorist tense is commonly used to recount events in a straightforward manner, providing a chronological sequence of actions.

Example: Luke 2:7 - "And she gave birth to her firstborn son and wrapped him in swaddling cloths and laid him in a manger..."
The verb "gave birth" (ἔτεκεν, eteken) is in the Aorist tense, narrating the historical event of Jesus' birth.

3. Inceptive Aorist:
The Aorist tense can sometimes indicate the beginning or initiation of an action.
Example: Mark 4:1 - "Again he began to teach beside the sea..."

The verb "began to teach" (ἤρξατο διδάσκειν, ērxato didaskein) is in the Aorist tense, suggesting the start of Jesus' teaching activity by the sea.

4. Constative Aorist:
The Aorist tense can also function as a constative, summarizing an action without specifying its duration or completion.
Example: John 11:35 - "Jesus wept."
The verb "wept" (ἐδάκρυσεν, edakrusen) is in the Aorist tense, presenting a simple statement of fact: Jesus cried.

5. Dramatic Aorist:
In some cases, the Aorist tense is used for dramatic effect, emphasizing the suddenness or significance of an action.
Example: Matthew 27:50 - "And Jesus cried out again with a loud voice and yielded up his spirit."
The verb "yielded up" (παρέδωκεν, paredōken) is in the Aorist tense, highlighting the decisive moment when Jesus gave up His spirit on the cross.
Conclusion:
The Aorist tense in the New Testament serves various functions, including denoting simple past actions, narrating historical events, indicating the beginning of actions, providing concise summaries, and creating dramatic effects. Its versatility allows Greek writers to convey a wide range of meanings and nuances in their narratives and teachings.

God bless
J.

 

[Free]

Should I disagree with you-would I be in trouble?

No, you would just be wrong. :wink I fully agree with your previous post, so I'm curious as to where you disagree.

 

[Johann!@#]

No, you would just be wrong. :wink I fully agree with your previous post, so I'm curious as to where you disagree.

No disagreement thus far

 

[donadams]

Not everyone has the same understanding of what is meant by "Biblical". So how are we defining "Biblical"?

Basically are these doctrines supported by the New Testament

But the rule of faith for Christians is not scripture alone

We must believe and obey both Christ and the church He founded on the apostles (Matt 16:18-19) to teach and sanctify all men unto eternal salvation! (Matt 28:19)

(Not scripture alone)
Sacred Scripture according to the churches cannon and interpretation? Yes!
Scripture alone? No!

Heb 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things by, by whom also he made the worlds;

“Not by scripture alone”!

That’s the nail in the coffin of “Sola scriptura” it is dead and buried, “false doctrine” the doctrine of demons like all the sola’s!
It’s

For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. Jn 1:17

Jesus Christ is the way, the truth, and the life! Jn 14:6

And this extends to His apostolic church, Christ and His church are one and inseparable! Acts 9:4 Jn 15:5 eph 5:32 acts 2:42

One shepherd and one fold! Jn 10:16

The truth of the Christian faith and the church are of divine origin and cannot be reformed!

Jesus Christ is the Light of the world! Jn 8:12
Apostolic church the light of the world! Matt 5:14

Must Hear Jesus Christ! Matt 17:5
Acts 3:23
Must Hear the apostolic church! Matt 18:17 1 Jn 4:6

Authority of Jesus Christ! Matt 28:17
Authority of the apostles! Jn 20:21

Jesus Christ has Reconciliation!
2 cor 5:19
Apostles have ministry of Reconciliation! 2 cor 5:18

Jesus Christ have power to forgive mens sins! Lk 5:20 Jn
Apostles have power to forgive mens sins! Jn 20:23

Jesus Christ is the truth! Jn 14:6
The apostolic church is the pillar of truth! 1 Tim 3:16

For the apostolic authority in Holy church decided and decreed (bound on earth / bound in heaven) the canon of Scripture, and is the only authentic interpreter of scripture!

The Christian faith is revealed by Christ!

Jesus Christ before ascending to heaven gave His apostles the fullness of truth, the apostolic church our mother and teacher is commanded by Him to teach and to sanctify with her sacraments (the promise of the spirit) all men unto eternal salvation! We are commanded to believe and obey! Matt 28:19

How can the Protestant concept: “sacred scripture is the only infallible source of truth” be true? There must be some infallible source that must tell us what is the canon of scripture & has authority to interpret scripture!

It is impossible to reject the church or her teaching without rejecting Christ who founded the church and revealed her teaching!

You cannot reject the kingdom established by the king and say I obey and submit to the king!

Jesus Christ founded the new covenant church to teach and sanctify (baptize) all men unto eternal salvation! (Matt 28:19)

Christ and His church are one!
((Inseparable unity))
Acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 eph 5:32 Isa 53:5 Jn 15:5 eph 5:24

Only Christ has authority to establish the church! Matt 16:18-19
One church! Jn 10:16 All others are sects “full of errors” “the tradition of men”! The new covenant Church is the eternal city of God! Household of faith! The pillar and ground of TRUTH! 1 Tim 3:15 Founded by Christ alone! Matt 16:18 on Peter and the apostles! Eph 2:20 Lk 22:29

Thks

 

[Johann!@#]

No. Faith alone is an oxymoron.

However, we see the phrase "by faith" in scripture.

Would you care to discuss what "by faith" means?

Hebrew:
"Faith" (אֱמוּנָה, emunah): Denotes faithfulness, trustworthiness, or fidelity. It stems from the root אָמַן (aman), meaning "to support," "to confirm," or "to be faithful."

Greek:
"Faith" (πίστις, pistis): Refers to trust, belief, or confidence. It denotes a firm persuasion or conviction concerning something or someone.

"By" (διά, dia): Indicates the means, manner, or instrumentality by which an action is accomplished. It can also denote causality or agency.

2. Exegetical Analysis:
Syntax and Morphology:

In Greek, the phrase "by faith" is typically expressed as διὰ πίστεως (dia pisteōs), where διὰ (dia) functions as a preposition meaning "through" or "by," and πίστεως (pisteōs) is the genitive form of πίστις (pistis), meaning "faith."
The genitive case indicates possession or source, suggesting that faith is the means or instrumentality through which something is accomplished or achieved.
Biblical References:
Romans 3:28 (NKJV): "Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law."

Here, "by faith" (διὰ πίστεως, dia pisteōs) signifies that justification is achieved or accomplished through faith, apart from the works of the law.

Hebrews 11:6 (NKJV): "But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him."

The phrase "without faith" emphasizes the necessity of faith in pleasing God and approaching Him. Faith is the means by which individuals believe in God's existence and trust in His promises.

Conclusion:
The phrase "by faith" conveys the idea that faith is the means or instrumentality through which certain spiritual realities are attained or experienced.
Faith involves trust, conviction, and reliance on God and His promises, leading to justification, pleasing God, and experiencing His blessings.
Understanding the nuances of the original Hebrew and Greek terms, as well as their syntactical and morphological usage, enhances our comprehension of the significance of faith in the Christian life and its role in salvation and relationship with God.

J.

 

[Free]

Basically are these doctrines supported by the New Testament

But the rule of faith for Christians is not scripture alone

We must believe and obey both Christ and the church He founded on the apostles (Matt 16:18-19) to teach and sanctify all men unto eternal salvation! (Matt 28:19)

(Not scripture alone)
Sacred Scripture according to the churches cannon and interpretation? Yes!
Scripture alone? No!

Heb 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things by, by whom also he made the worlds;

“Not by scripture alone”!

That’s the nail in the coffin of “Sola scriptura” it is dead and buried, “false doctrine” the doctrine of demons like all the sola’s!
It’s

For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. Jn 1:17

Jesus Christ is the way, the truth, and the life! Jn 14:6

And this extends to His apostolic church, Christ and His church are one and inseparable! Acts 9:4 Jn 15:5 eph 5:32 acts 2:42

One shepherd and one fold! Jn 10:16

The truth of the Christian faith and the church are of divine origin and cannot be reformed!

Jesus Christ is the Light of the world! Jn 8:12
Apostolic church the light of the world! Matt 5:14

Must Hear Jesus Christ! Matt 17:5
Acts 3:23
Must Hear the apostolic church! Matt 18:17 1 Jn 4:6

Authority of Jesus Christ! Matt 28:17
Authority of the apostles! Jn 20:21

Jesus Christ has Reconciliation!
2 cor 5:19
Apostles have ministry of Reconciliation! 2 cor 5:18

Jesus Christ have power to forgive mens sins! Lk 5:20 Jn
Apostles have power to forgive mens sins! Jn 20:23

Jesus Christ is the truth! Jn 14:6
The apostolic church is the pillar of truth! 1 Tim 3:16

For the apostolic authority in Holy church decided and decreed (bound on earth / bound in heaven) the canon of Scripture, and is the only authentic interpreter of scripture!

The Christian faith is revealed by Christ!

Jesus Christ before ascending to heaven gave His apostles the fullness of truth, the apostolic church our mother and teacher is commanded by Him to teach and to sanctify with her sacraments (the promise of the spirit) all men unto eternal salvation! We are commanded to believe and obey! Matt 28:19

How can the Protestant concept: “sacred scripture is the only infallible source of truth” be true? There must be some infallible source that must tell us what is the canon of scripture & has authority to interpret scripture!

It is impossible to reject the church or her teaching without rejecting Christ who founded the church and revealed her teaching!

You cannot reject the kingdom established by the king and say I obey and submit to the king!

Jesus Christ founded the new covenant church to teach and sanctify (baptize) all men unto eternal salvation! (Matt 28:19)

Christ and His church are one!
((Inseparable unity))
Acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 eph 5:32 Isa 53:5 Jn 15:5 eph 5:24

Only Christ has authority to establish the church! Matt 16:18-19
One church! Jn 10:16 All others are sects “full of errors” “the tradition of men”! The new covenant Church is the eternal city of God! Household of faith! The pillar and ground of TRUTH! 1 Tim 3:15 Founded by Christ alone! Matt 16:18 on Peter and the apostles! Eph 2:20 Lk 22:29

Thks

Scripture alone is largely misunderstood. It isn't "Scripture is the only authority;" it's '"only Scripture, because it is God’s inspired Word, is our inerrant, sufficient, and final authority for the church'." It's the only infallible authority.

2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,
2Ti 3:17 that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work. (ESV)

Act 17:11 Now these Jews were more noble than those in Thessalonica; they received the word with all eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see if these things were so. (ESV)

 

[Ricky]

Scripture alone is largely misunderstood. It isn't "Scripture is the only authority;" it's '"only Scripture, because it is God’s inspired Word, is our inerrant, sufficient, and final authority for the church'." It's the only infallible authority.

2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,
2Ti 3:17 that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work. (ESV)

Act 17:11 Now these Jews were more noble than those in Thessalonica; they received the word with all eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see if these things were so. (ESV)

So you are defining "Biblical" to mean that it has to be explicitly stated in scripture?

 

[Free]

So you are defining "Biblical" to mean that it has to be explicitly stated in scripture?

Sorry, I don't follow; I didn't use the word "biblical."

 

[Fastfredy0]

Faith is not a work.
Your faith comes from God.

Technically, faith is a work. It is the work of God.
John 6:29 Jesus replied, “The work of God is this: to believe in the One He has sent.”

Good post.