smaller
Member
Of course not. I'm sure they know the same.
Christian Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
-
Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
-
Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
-
-
Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
-
-
How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
-
Bible Study Cain and Abel
- Thread starter stovebolts
- Start date
in jewish thought a holding place until the messianic era, in Christianity, that depends on whom you ask.
I can see it that way even though im not a premil type or as on earth when its restored. I don't know.
J
Jesse
Guest
Do all Jews believe one path for afterlife?
I assumed it was similar to the 1,000's of opinions we have in Christianity.
that would the torah, if you saying how does one please the Heshem and attain a place in the messianic era and or gan-eden. the jews teach the idea of reincarnation
smaller
Member
Yeah, they have a LOT of diversity of opinion as well. The majority I believe they term Reform Judaism. This is what we have primarily in the U.S. and this would, I think also be the majority in Israel and around the world. There are of course some ultra orthodox sects of Judaism are waaayyy out there and extremely diverse and engaged vehemently in alignments with their respective rabbi leaders. And they have some more spiritually dynamic arms in their Kabbalistic segments that I might consider to be similar to christian charismatics with different forms of distinction/expression.
Modern Judaism basically had to reconstruct itself long after their disbursement from Israel.
J
Jesse
Guest
Reincarnation? Is there something in the OT that would substantiate this belief for them?
they base that on job, and remember with oral traditions of the Zohar and kaballah that is a given when I mention this.
J
Jesse
Guest
Is it reincarnation in that if you live a good life, then you come back a higher status?
no, since im a jew, they would say about me that I would enter into sheol and must learn torah and then upon that rise from sheol into gan-eden. the gates of sheol are in gan-eden. there is also that whacky view of the serpent they have that is separated from satan.
J
Jesse
Guest
Is that really reincarnation?
It just seems it would be the case of what exists never ceases to exist, it's not like they ever come back to life, right? Or do they believe in something like "soul sleep"?
no, its not soul sleep, In sheol depending on the level on is on, its easier the closer one is to the earth and harder the lower. abadon is the lowest and I believe that luke 16 is a reference to that idea.
J
Jesse
Guest
Would this be the same as when Paul talked about the different levels of heaven?
sheol isn't the place for the tzaddik. its for those that were evil, or somewhat disobedient in jewish thought. biblically its for the damned though some say that it had a level for the rightenous per luke 16.
stovebolts
Member
Jesse,
Jewish belief's are as broad as the belief's held within Christianity. To the fellow Jew whom told you the above, there is something to take to heart.
Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
We ought to be concerned with now. Now is the only time we have to do something. Now has no beginning, and it has no end. it just is. The Kingdom of God is't a destination, nor is hell. Both are a state of being.
Luke 17:20-21 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
Read Matthews account of the Gospel for a full account of what the Kingdom of Heaven is like.
Lets lay some basic groundwork. Sin isn't always what you did, it's what you failed to do. See Ephesians 4 as an example. When one lies, it's a sin is because they should have told the truth. Thus, repentance doesn't happen when one stops telling lies. Repentance starts happening when one tells the truth. Same with stealing food. Instead of stealing food, you should be getting a job and providing food for those in need. Paul is the best example we have. He was murdering Christians, but he became one of the greatest influences in the known world for the cause of Christ. You see, what we do here on earth is important and it can have lasting implications across generations.
When we enter into the Kingdom of God, we have a comforter who is able to bind our wounds and is able to grant us an inner peace. I recall being on my knees at the funeral home, alone with my beautiful daughter. When I was able to compose myself, I felt a great inner peace that could only come from God. It was that same inner peace, inner presence, I had felt when I was in an Orphanage as a young child. Both were times of great duress. As I left my daughters viewing, I raised my hands in praise and from my very bones, I thanked him for the time He had given her with me and I could feel the tears being wiped away. How was it that for a moment, I had found such joy in that moments space? Perhaps it was the same inner peace Jeremiah found. I would encourage you to read Lamentations within it's proper context.
Lamentations 3:22-26 It is of the LORD'S mercies that we are not consumed, because his compassions fail not. They are new every morning: great is thy faithfulness. The LORD is my portion, saith my soul; therefore will I hope in him. The LORD is good unto them that wait for him, to the soul that seeketh him. It is good that a man should both hope and quietly wait for the salvation of the LORD.
We cause our own hell and Jeremiah was in the midst of it. Israel was to be a light for all nations, but she took the blessings of the LORD and did not use them purely or properly. We call this anti-kingdom. Read Israels history and you'll find that she was worse than Sodom in Ezekiel 16. (Ezekiel, Jeremiah and Isaiah were contemporaries).
People do really bad things in this world. They abuse children by beating them and some die. They molest little children, they kidnap children and sell them as sex slaves. Some abandon their children and even so, some don't care about their children. But when these things become the norm for a society or a sub culture, hell becomes a reality. But this state is so much more. You see, any time we look at a person as a commodity or we've degraded them to a sub-human state, we've imposed hell upon them. I would urge you to read Ezekiel 16 and you'll see the hell Israel had created by failing to live the way God commanded them, and I want you to think about how a society gone astray can have such a negative impact on the lives of so many innocent people. I want you to think of the Holocaust, Rwanda and apartheid. I want you to think about radical Islam and ISIS. Yes, Hell is real and what we do NOW is important. Heaven isn't a destination, it's a journey and we are either advancing the Kingdom of God, or we are advancing the Kingdom of Satan.
Last edited:
smaller
Member
Well said above SB. And your statement: "we are either advancing the Kingdom of God, or we are advancing the Kingdom of Satan." would make an excellent topic thread of it's own.
I might even suggest that where Jesus said kingdom will rise against kingdom, that by the raising The Internal Kingdom of God, the likewise raising of the opposing kingdom is guaranteed. It's actually a continuing present day SIGN given by God to show us we're on track. There are many examples of this in the text, particularly in the N.T. Where the Word is sown, resistance is sure to follow like night follows day.
I might even suggest that where Jesus said kingdom will rise against kingdom, that by the raising The Internal Kingdom of God, the likewise raising of the opposing kingdom is guaranteed. It's actually a continuing present day SIGN given by God to show us we're on track. There are many examples of this in the text, particularly in the N.T. Where the Word is sown, resistance is sure to follow like night follows day.
stovebolts
Member
There are a few things within the OT that some Jews believe. I've even listened to audio from Jewish teachings that speak about reincarnation. Personally, I don't subscribe to it. But for those who do, here is something for them to think about.
Exodus 32:28 And the children of Levi did according to the word of Moses: and there fell of the people that day about three thousand men.
Acts 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
jasonc We spoke on the phone about this a few weeks ago.
It could simply be similarities and the explosion of a new Exodus. With the first covenant, 3,000 people die. With this covenant, 3,000 souls are made alive through re-birth (baptism).
Same thing with the tower of bable. The people are all given different languages and they are scattered. Yet we see in acts that each is given a native language which enables them to communicate globally...
stovebolts
Member
Thank you for your previous insight to the inner man, it actually made since to me for the first time over all these years. What you just wrote adds to that truth. If I can steal a quote from Avatar, "I see you".
Do you remember years ago a certain member posted a thread on Evil and used Leviticus 23 where the farmer was supposed to leave the corners of his fields for the widow and orphan? That ties into the above post as well. Jason will understand this and how it ties into light and darkness.
I have to run for the day and may not be able to post. It is, afterall Christmas Eve. I've got shopping to do and chores to get done. I've already spent more time on this site than I should have.
If you all don't hear back from me until next week, it has been a very uplifting thread for me. Each of you have been a blessing.
Chopper
Member
NOTE: Hey guys, I want to thank you folk for 6 pages of really informative posts. I especially admire your super Christian way you are responding to each other. As a Moderator, you all are an example to others as how to proceed with a thread topic and show respect to your Brothers. Bravo my friends, Bravo!