Calvinism and the Nicene Creed

[stovebolts]

This is very true. I've had a nice Muslim friend a couple of blocks away....so? This is like saying I have a black/Hispanic/homosexual/etc. friend.

Not ALL Muslims are terrorists...but they all agree that the whole world should be like THEM. No tolerance for others...it's just to what degree each individual person is willing to go to achieve this goal.

That has not been my experience. Where i work there are many Muslims. Some women wear their head coverings and we have meditation rooms for them. Two years ago there was a small book about Islam in the company library that i borrowed and they are commanded to respect Christians per Mohamad as they helped him.
Any Muslim i have spoke to enjoys talking about God.

Over 15 years ago my manager was Muslim ( he lived in Dearborn) and he and i had many, many good conversations about our faith.

 

[stovebolts]

Yeah...
But the equivalent is that we usually toss anyone who claims that someone is not a Christian. Most other websites do the same.

Why do Moslems allow such behavior to continue?

I'm not following your first paragraph... Please explain.

To answer your question, let me ask you one. Why do you allow RCC priests to continue to molest children?

 

[JohnDB]

From around the 12th century through the 18th century the different Christian "denominations were basically at war with each other. State lines were considered "church" lines of ownership as we would think of them today in America. Europe wasn't much better. 100 year war? Really?

But things supposedly have progressed in the world today but the Moslem world hasn't?

What's up with that?

 

[JohnDB]

I'm not following your first paragraph... Please explain.

To answer your question, let me ask you one. Why do you allow RCC priests to continue to molest children?

What I'm saying is that those guilty of atrocities and crimes committed in the name of "Christianity" are still punished and incarcerated but those guilty in the Moslem world seem to be turned into Heroes.

 

[GodsGrace]

That has not been my experience. Where i work there are many Muslims. Some women wear their head coverings and we have meditation rooms for them. Two years ago there was a small book about Islam in the company library that i borrowed and they are commanded to respect Christians per Mohamad as they helped him.
Any Muslim i have spoke to enjoys talking about God.

Over 15 years ago my manager was Muslim ( he lived in Dearborn) and he and i had many, many good conversations about our faith.

Do you know about No Go Zones in London?
They follow sharia law and police are not allowed there.

My point is that it doesn't matter how many nice Muslims we know....
What is happening with them is still happening....
They do not integrate and they insist on changing the religious habits of those in the countries to which they migrate.

 

[GodsGrace]

From around the 12th century through the 18th century the different Christian "denominations were basically at war with each other. State lines were considered "church" lines of ownership as we would think of them today in America. Europe wasn't much better. 100 year war? Really?

But things supposedly have progressed in the world today but the Moslem world hasn't?

What's up with that?

Not only do they not want to progress,
but they'd like to take us back into the past with them.

 

[JohnDB]

Do you know about No Go Zones in London?
They follow sharia law and police are not allowed there.

My point is that it doesn't matter how many nice Muslims we know....
What is happening with them is still happening....
They do not integrate and they insist on changing the religious habits of those in the countries to which they migrate.

And this is the PR campaign that they are losing...and badly.

 

[stovebolts]

What I'm saying is that those guilty of atrocities and crimes committed in the name of "Christianity" are still punished and incarcerated but those guilty in the Moslem world seem to be turned into Heroes.

Well, not the pedophile priests are touted as heroes, but they certainly are protected by the clergy.
I don't personally know one Muslim that supported Bin Laden or ISIS or the atrocities of radical Islam and believe me, we've talked about it. They have all said to me they get persecuted for something they don't support.

I'm not saying some Muslims don't celebrate the atrocities. But those do no represent the whole.

 

[JohnDB]

I'm not following your first paragraph... Please explain.

To answer your question, let me ask you one. Why do you allow RCC priests to continue to molest children?

I'm also saying that we aren't hearing about those who violate "peaceful" Islamic principles being shunned.

If a small community like the Amish can shun someone effectively then why can't the Moslems?

 

[GodsGrace]

I'm not following your first paragraph... Please explain.

To answer your question, let me ask you one. Why do you allow RCC priests to continue to molest children?

John is not allowing this....no catholic lay person is.
It wasn't even know till about 20 or 30 years ago.
The Popes are to blame in keeping it hidden to try to protect the church.

I do think this will change with the law passed last week removing the statute of limitation on molestation and abuse of children.
I read it'll cost the CC hundreds of millions of dollars.
Maybe they won't protect criminals in the future....

 

[GodsGrace]

And this is the PR campaign that they are losing...and badly.

Hard to win a PR war when the facts are staring everyone in the face.

 

[stovebolts]

John is not allowing this....no catholic lay person is.
It wasn't even know till about 20 or 30 years ago.
The Popes are to blame in keeping it hidden to try to protect the church.

I do think this will change with the law passed last week removing the statute of limitation on molestation and abuse of children.
I read it'll cost the CC hundreds of millions of dollars.
Maybe they won't protect criminals in the future....

Your answer hits my point exactly on the head. You know enough to not hold John accountable. We need to learn the same with Muslims. Not all support Sharia Law. The one's I have met that do come from the Middle East, and i assume these are the same one's in London that you speak of.

You have a right to speak out against the one's in London, and you should. But those in London don't represent the whole of Islam any more than Rome represents the whole of Christianity.

 

[JohnDB]

Hard to win a PR war when the facts are staring everyone in the face.

That's what I'm saying.
Look,
If my pastor started preaching from the pulpit that we needed to start committing acts of violence towards people who are not Christians...there would be outrage, a congregation that would walk out, and then police called to alert them to his actions.

But when a guy who was involved with taking civilians hostage and being held for ransom (in the name of Allah) is now the leader of a country...
I want to know why the double standard.

 

[stovebolts]

That's what I'm saying.
Look,
If my pastor started preaching from the pulpit that we needed to start committing acts of violence towards people who are not Christians...there would be outrage, a congregation that would walk out, and then police called to alert them to his actions.

But when a guy who was involved with taking civilians hostage and being held for ransom (in the name of Allah) is now the leader of a country...
I want to know why the double standard.

Niblo has addressed this.

 

[JohnDB]

Niblo has addressed this.

Westboro Baptist Church is a prime example.
They wanted to come to a small town here in TN to protest a soldier's funeral. They called the State Police so they could get protection from those who might do them bodily harm for "exercising their rights".
The State Police informed them that they were going to be too busy to do so.
And no protest happened...but lots of honor guards showed up...on Harley's. They weren't going to take a chance on any protests.

This is what I'm talking about.

 

[stovebolts]

Westboro Baptist Church is a prime example.
They wanted to come to a small town here in TN to protest a soldier's funeral. They called the State Police so they could get protection from those who might do them bodily harm for "exercising their rights".
The State Police informed them that they were going to be too busy to do so.
And no protest happened...but lots of honor guards showed up...on Harley's. They weren't going to take a chance on any protests.

This is what I'm talking about.

Same thing happened in Michigan.
So... Let's be fair about this. The radicals in the Middle East have guns and bombs and they love to use them and they do use them. Muslims have been actively fighting the radical Muslims and many Muslims have died in that fight. Many Muslims have left their homes and fled because they did not want to die or live under the radical Muslim leaderships. Perhaps we should have sent some guys on Harleys to greet them lol!

 

[JohnDB]

Another story that is even closer to home.
I got laid off yesterday. My boss tells me that he has a new job for me closer to my house that starts Monday.
All is good except for one thing. It's a Glock store for making custom firearms to order.
I turn it and a $2 raise down. (They go together)
Not because I'm so opposed to guns (because I'm not) but because I really don't like how they are marketing them or the really inexpensive prices attached to them. And where they are often used to deter violence...I also know that many people who purchase them (due to fear marketing) do not actually have it within themselves to actually properly care and ward such a powerful weapon. They neglect and forget about them until the day their neglected offspring decides to shoot up the local school.

Yeah...

So...I don't lend my talents to make guns.

And where the store will likely be built I still tell the message and have gotten my friends to understand the responsibility of keeping such things. And they get it now too. I don't begrudge anyone their right to have a firearm. But they don't have the right to abuse/be sloppy with their rights either.

 

[JohnDB]

Same thing happened in Michigan.
So... Let's be fair about this. The radicals in the Middle East have guns and bombs and they love to use them and they do use them. Muslims have been actively fighting the radical Muslims and many Muslims have died in that fight. Many Muslims have left their homes and fled because they did not want to die or live under the radical Muslim leaderships. Perhaps we should have sent some guys on Harleys to greet them lol!

You laugh but really...it is happening.
With the exception of Al Jazera, satellite television is doing more to undermine the leadership of Iran than anything else. And the Government there is rapidly losing power over their country. (The religious leadership allows the Catholic equivalent of indulgences)
Just like the Government in Afghanistan is a joke so is Iran's government becoming. The problem with this is their nuclear weapons program.

The Chinese get the point. Their government wants to stamp out religion (including Christians) mostly to get rid of religious radicals who wish to perform violence. (Buddhist, Hinduism, and others)
But the people are protesting.
They don't mind having government or are promoting anarchy. (The radicals do that) they just want their freedoms they have had since the '60's. (Taiwan)
But now Taiwan's religious zeal is gaining ground on the mainland and the communist government wants to put a stop to all of it.

And I find that the old axiom is true. Governments rule at the will of their people no matter how oppressive the regime.

I'm the ruler of my house as long as my wife agrees. It's true...and it's a truism.

Remember Jesse Jackson? Al Sharpton? Louis Farakahn? They ain't making a peep lately. They have been shunned. Enough pressure was placed on those giving them a platform to spout their messages of hate...not by a Government but by regular people.

Westboro Baptist Church has lost their voice. Not by the Government but by a bunch of bikers who know enough of the difference between right and wrong to stop the wrong. And they don't even attend church regularly.

 

[GodsGrace]

Your answer hits my point exactly on the head. You know enough to not hold John accountable. We need to learn the same with Muslims. Not all support Sharia Law. The one's I have met that do come from the Middle East, and i assume these are the same one's in London that you speak of.

You have a right to speak out against the one's in London, and you should. But those in London don't represent the whole of Islam any more than Rome represents the whole of Christianity.

I was giving an example...I'm not saying those in London represent all Muslims.

John is not responsible for the priest's molestation of persons...
but the priests ARE....
The persons doing the terrorizing are Muslims...
Just like the persons doing the molestations are priests.

 

[Anto9us2]

I feel the Nicene Creed is just as much Orthodox as it is Catholic, the churches were not divided then.

What it all has to do with Calvinism or Muslims I don't know.

I consider myself lowercase catholic and orthodox.

I have to consider uppercase Catholic and Orthodox to be simply DENOMINATIONS.