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CAN A REFORMED BELIEVER FALL AWAY FROM FAITH?

jerry63935 said:
those truly saved is what they believe as per your question minus reformed .that is a loaded question and depends on who you ask.. me personally i cant agree with Calvinism. i hold to free will
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I also hold to free will.

What I'm attempting to do is show that if a person is saved...
and then falls away...

this kind of debunks the whole idea of perseverance of the saints.
I believe all of the calvinist doctrine is incorrect.
Including perseverance of the saints.

I believe a born again believer could all away from the faith.

1 Timothy 4:1
1Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons,
 
Hebrews 6:6 and having fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.


fall away. This Greek term occurs only here in the NT. In the LXX, it was used to translate terms for severe unfaithfulness and apostasy (cf. Eze_14:13; Eze_18:24; Eze_20:27). It is equivalent to the apostasy in Heb_3:12. The seriousness of this unfaithfulness is seen in the severe description of rejection within this verse: they recrucify Christ and treat Him contemptuously (see also the strong descriptions in Heb_10:29). The "impossible" of verse Heb_6:4 goes with "to renew them again to repentance." Those who sinned against Christ in such a way had no hope of restoration or forgiveness (cf. Heb_2:2-3; Heb_10:26-27; Heb_12:25).

The reason is that they had rejected Him with full knowledge and conscious experience (as described in the features of Heb_6:5-6). With full revelation, they rejected the truth, concluding the opposite of the truth about Christ, and thus had no hope of being saved. They can never have more knowledge than they had when they rejected it. They have concluded that Jesus should have been crucified, and they stand with his enemies.

There is no possibility of these verses referring to losing salvation. Many Scripture passages make unmistakably clear that salvation is eternal (cf. Joh_10:27-29; Rom_8:35, Rom_8:38-39; Php_1:6; 1Pe_1:4-5). Those who want to make this verse mean that believers can lose salvation will have to admit that it would then also say that one could never get it back again.
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I see no where in the Bible that teaches one can lose their Salvation, in fact it is just the opposite.
 
wondering said:
I also hold to free will.

What I'm attempting to do is show that if a person is saved...
and then falls away...

this kind of debunks the whole idea of perseverance of the saints.
I believe all of the calvinist doctrine is incorrect.
Including perseverance of the saints.

I believe a born again believer could all away from the faith.

1 Timothy 4:1
1Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons,
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1 Timothy 4:1​



the Spirit expressly says. Paul repeats to Timothy the warning he had given many years earlier to the Ephesian elders (Act_20:29-30). The Holy Spirit through the Scriptures has repeatedly warned of the danger of apostasy (cf. Mat_24:4-12; Act_20:29-30; 2Th_2:3-12; Heb_3:12; Heb. 5:11-6:8; Heb_10:26-31; 2Pe_3:3; 1Jn_2:18; Jud_1:18).

in latter times. The period from the first coming of Christ until His return (Act_2:16-17; Heb_1:1-2; Heb_9:26; 1Pe_1:20; 1Jn_2:18). Apostasy will exist throughout that period, reaching a climax shortly before Christ returns (cf. Mat_24:12).

depart from the faith. Those who fall prey to the false teachers will abandon the Christian faith. The Greek word for depart is the source of the English word apostatize, and refers to someone moving away from an original position. These are professing or nominal Christians who associate with those who truly believe the gospel, but defect after believing lies and deception, thus revealing their true nature as unconverted. See notes on 1Jn_2:19; Jud_1:24.

deceiving spirits. Those demonic spirits, either directly or through false teachers, who have wandered away from the truth and lead others to do the same. The most defining word to describe the entire operation of Satan and his demons is deception (cf. Joh_8:44; 1Jn_4:1-6).

doctrines of demons. This is not teaching about demons, but false teaching that originates from them. To sit under such teaching is to hear lies from the demonic realm (Eph_6:12; Jas_3:15; 2Jn_1:7-11). The influence of demons will reach its peak during the Tribulation (2Th_2:9; Rev_9:2-11; Rev_16:14; Rev_20:2-3, Rev_20:8, Rev_20:10). Satan and demons constantly work the deceptions that corrupt and pervert God's Word.
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wondering said:
I believe a born again believer could all away from the faith.
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this is widely debated discussed and argued . scriptures does not say of either way. me personally i feel if a true blue Christian falls away they should be like the prodigal son and come to their senses i made a comment of facebook that we are fruit bearers not fruit inspectors . then the reply came we will KNOW them by their fruits. knowing and fruit inspectors are not the same. we here judge not lest ye be judged ( that usually is a defense of a person actions )
a fruit inspector is one who goes around judging others actions. usually in a snooty way. fruit can be righteous works, we have the fruit of the spirit in Galatians love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. . note its the Fruit of the spirit not our own fruit, so if we are connected to the true vine,.., these by products will be in our life,.

sometimes we are hard to love,,, sometimes we are not always a joy to be around. sometimes we are not always a peaceful type person .sometimes its hard for others to have Forbearance with us. time we just aint very forbearing . ( lets be truthful ) sometimes we are not always Kind goodness there is a big word. Faithfulness. in proverbs it says most men will proclaim his very own goodness,, BUT a faithful man / woman who can find.. . gentleness we all could use some polished up on that . then SELFCONTROL .do we handle everything in life in a self controlled way . we use restraint ?

at the place i work its slow not much sales the company shut one assembly line down. one guy lost his job said to one of the workers who got laid off. been nice knowing you and laughed . they walked him out the door. sad ,,,,others on 3rd shift when told of layoff got angry threatened to beat up another person who did not get laid off . went out keyed cars deep scratches, spun there tires . completely lost it in a temper tantrum .

if not careful we will do the same thing :eek2:amen

as Christians the Fruit of the spirit is produced in our life by being attached to the true vine (Jesus ) as we read the word it tells us how to live. there are scriptures of warning the way of a transgressor is Hard. every branch that does not produce fruit is cut off .to be burned in the fire :eek:eek. i have heard this taught many different ways i know in times past we have discussed this rather heavy ..

I ( note ** me speaking ) feel since we have a know so salvation we should know if were in Right standings if we dont know or ignore the fact we are not.. despite all the warning shots the Holy Spirit has fired.. we may not be as attached to the vine as we think. Chastisement and convictions are both together Chastisement is a spanking from God letting us Know were wrong . conviction is the pricking of our heart to keep us on track ,


BTW i think i just Got the message for in the morning
 
electedbyhim said:
Hebrews 6:6 and having fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.



I see no where in the Bible that teaches one can lose their Salvation, in fact it is just the opposite.
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Returning to the vomit . Fallen away .
2Peter2
20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

electedbyhim, please, please don't answer with cut and paste commentary . Type it out yourself so I can quote you .
 
electedbyhim said:
Hebrews 6:6 and having fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.



I see no where in the Bible that teaches one can lose their Salvation, in fact it is just the opposite.
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(Jeremiah 8:5-6 KJV)

.
 
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hawkman said:
Returning to the vomit . Fallen away .
2Peter2
20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

electedbyhim, please, please don't answer with cut and paste commentary . Type it out yourself so I can quote you .
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Is that against forum rules?
 
I uses commentaries because they describe what I believe better then what I can type out. I study the Bible first and use commentaries to clarify things for me. I like the hermeneutics they use.
 
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