CAN God do the the logically impossible? Why / why not?

[Fastfredy0]

Premise: God can do the impossible .... giggle

Impossible:

• Incapable of having existence or of occurring.
• Not capable of being accomplished.

... and do I have a bridge to sell you!!!

 

[Little Owl]

Right, and what about it is relevant to this discussion?

Odd.
You presume to insist there's something God can't do. And then imagine to question how his word is relevant to this discussion when his word tells you there is nothing God cannot do.

This exchange is not edifying Christ. We're done.

 

[Little Owl]

Premise: God can do the impossible .... giggle

Impossible:

• Incapable of having existence or of occurring.
• Not capable of being accomplished.

... and do I have a bridge to sell you!!!

What created the materials to build that bridge? Or the bridge builders?

 

[Free]

Odd.
You presume to insist there's something God can't do. And then imagine to question how his word is relevant to this discussion when his word tells you there is nothing God cannot do.

There are a couple of problems. First, context is king:

Luk 1:34 And Mary said to the angel, “How will this be, since I am a virgin?”
Luk 1:35 And the angel answered her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy—the Son of God.
Luk 1:36 And behold, your relative Elizabeth in her old age has also conceived a son, and this is the sixth month with her who was called barren.
Luk 1:37 For nothing will be impossible with God.” (ESV)

The context of verse 37 is in Mary becoming pregnant as a virgin. Second, this is not a logical impossibility, which is what the discussion is about. Third, a logical impossibility precludes it from being an actual impossibility, even with God.

Can God create a rock so heavy that he cannot lift it? Why or why not?
Can God learn? Why or why not?
Can God sin? Why or why not?
Can God lie? Why or why not?

This exchange is not edifying Christ. We're done.

How is discussing the nature of God not edifying? Is it edifying to have wrong beliefs about God or right beliefs?

 

[Fastfredy0]

CAN God do the the logically impossible? Why / why not?​

Gee ... this is not rocket science. LOL
... apparently it is for some.

Can God create a rock so heavy that he cannot lift it? Why or why not?
Can God learn? Why or why not?
Can God sin? Why or why not?
Can God lie? Why or why not?

These are tough ...

Can God create a rock so heavy that he cannot lift it? Why or why not?
I don't know which God cannot do, but since it is a contradiction one is at least one thing He cannot do.

Can God learn? Why or why not?
Well, Bible says He's all knowing (Psalm 147:5 ) so God cannot learn. That is one thing I can do the God cannot. There's a lot of things us imperfect beings can do that God cannot like being imperfect.
Aside: Open Theists disagree but they don't count

Can God sin? Why or why not?
Well, God makes the rules and who the rules apply to. I'd sin He can't sin because no such rule (law) applies to him.

Can God lie? Why or why not?
No ... one assumes the bible true and it says God can't sin

Numbers 23:19​

​

... I wonder if seminary is this easy ... maybe I could get an honourary (spelt that way for Free) degree ? *giggle*​

​

 

[KV-44-v1]

Yes, it does. Power does not overcome nonsense, because nonsense doesn't even get off the ground, so to speak.

This is God we are talking about. THE Creator of the universe, THE Inspirer of the Bible that has been proven right time and again.
Not, say, something with Omnipotence but no other trait.
God overcomes "nonsense" easily.

He isn't. I've stated that God cannot do anything that goes against his nature.

Effictively cannot.

He is rightly limited by his perfection, his immutability, his holiness, his love, etc. You don't seem to understand God very well. He is goodness itself.

Yes because He wants to be. He always has been and wanted to be perfect and immutable and good.

Psa 7:11 God is a righteous judge, and a God who feels indignation every day. (ESV)

Yep.
Phillipians 4:13 . This "I" CAN do ALL things, that doesnt mean he WILL. You will predictably try to assert that there are exceptions ,when there's none.

Is God "forced" to be righteous or is he perfectly righteous in and of himself?

In your view, He is forced. In mine, He is the latter.
If you could choose perfection or sin which would you choose? God is perfect so He will ALWAYS, without fail, wish to not let go of perfection.

Your position actually means God could be an unrighteous judge if he wanted to be, which means there is also nothing stopping him from maybe one day deciding to be unrighteous.

He will always want to be Righteous. No remotely decent evidence that He will not.

But that is blasphemous.

Proof?

How is it not that, to limit God and make Him weak???? If there are things He could not do no matter how ""hard He tries"" how is that not so?

It is impossible for God to be unrighteous because it would contradict his nature. If he could, he wouldn't be God.

True as well. God has no intentions on ditching His Nature. And likely has none for playing games with "logically impossible".

He is good because he absolutely cannot violate his character.

No no, EFFECTIVELY cannot.
Why would God ever want to violate His character or do with the "logically impossible"?

If he could, then he is not God because he could not be perfectly holy. That is, he could not be light, as John says he is in 1 John 1:5.

"If apple juice has the potential to have lemon juice put into it, it is not apple juice." That's how your argument is like.
Your logic is flawed. He would only "not be light" if He DID perform the action of violating.

Adam and eve were sinless until they sinned.
So why should God be not God if He can but doesnt sin??
Under your logic, adam n eve wouldve sinned upon their creation.

No, because it is actually impossible for him to do it. The logically impossible, or rather logically contradictory, is nonsense.

Arguing in circles does not help the case.

Or, it just might be that it is actually impossible, which it is.

Assumption with 0 proof, we have proof the "logically impossible" is possible because of the notable LACK of exceptions to God's Power in the Bible. The big picture is, all the "God cannot" are EFFECTIVELY cannot.

It actually is logically possible. You also have to answer a few questions that were put to you which you did not answer:

Can God learn?

He could if He wanted to.
Even without forgetting. But idk how He would do that, now thats waayyyy beyond me.
God does not play silly games just for the sake of proving His ABSOLUTE Omnipotence to fallible man. Especially those who doubt His ability to do the "logically impossible".

Really, it seems like the phrase "logically impossible" is just a synonym for "unable to be discerned/recieved/concieved/understood by humans".

Do you think God can build a rock so heavy that he cannot lift it?

Yep. But there is no good reason for God to desire to do such.
If you had the power to do the logically 'impossible', would you want to? No? Okay then i dont see the problem.

If God can lie, then how do you even know that anything in the Bible is true? How do you even know God exists?

Because events throughout history have proven the Bible to be true. We know God does not lie not because of some hard limit, but as you said, He is "Good in and of Himself"

If man can lie, how can i know YOU are telling the truth? How do i know your conclusions are sound if you have potential to be wrong?

 

[KV-44-v1]

There's a lot of things us imperfect beings can do that God cannot like being imperfect.

Blatant pride!!
Can God state this quote of you here as a fact?? Why or why not?

can't sin

Numbers 23:19​

Effectively. Give me one reason that God would sin to appease people's desire to have evidence that He **can** violate His character. Right you cant.
we must have FAITH that God can absolutely do anything. but only EFFECTIVELY cannot do others.

May as well ask a computer programmer to stab his hands. He CERTAINLY CAN but effectively can't.

 

[KV-44-v1]

Third, a logical impossibility precludes it from being an actual impossibility, even with God.

Oh! You mess up? So being a logical impossibility stops it from being absolutely impossible! If it is logically impossible, it cannot be absolutely impossible!

You believe that God absolutely (not simply effectively) cannot do the logically "impossible", that there are things He "absolutely cant do"!

But as is admitted, if they are logically impossible that precludes them from not being able to be done by God!!
So you contradict your previous position!

 

[Free]

This is God we are talking about. THE Creator of the universe, THE Inspirer of the Bible that has been proven right time and again.
Not, say, something with Omnipotence but no other trait.
God overcomes "nonsense" easily.

Yes, it is God we are talking about, at least who I am talking about; you’re making him less than he is. His power cannot overcome logical contradictions because there is nothing to overcome. That kind of nonsense is a state that is impossible to ever exist, and God absolutely cannot make it exist.

Effictively cannot.

Absolutely cannot. He can no more go against his nature than an ant can choose to become a human and actually do so of its own power. Again, you’re making God less than he is.

Yes because He wants to be. He always has been and wanted to be perfect and immutable and good.

“Wants to be” and “wanted” again make God less than he is. You really don't understand the nature of God.

Yep.
Phillipians 4:13 . This "I" CAN do ALL things, that doesnt mean he WILL. You will predictably try to assert that there are exceptions ,when there's none.

That has nothing to do with this discussion.

In your view, He is forced. In mine, He is the latter.

No, you've got it completely backwards. In your view he must force himself to be righteous. In "my" view, which is the biblical view, God is perfectly righteous because his nature is. That means he could never not be righteous.

If you could choose perfection or sin which would you choose? God is perfect so He will ALWAYS, without fail, wish to not let go of perfection.

You’re fallaciously begging the question.

He will always want to be Righteous. No remotely decent evidence that He will not.

Again, you're fallaciously begging the question. If God can choose to be unrighteous, then he is completely untrustworthy and therefore cannot be God.

Proof?

Do you not understand what blasphemy means either? That is what asking for proof for what I said strongly suggests. It should be self-evident.

How is it not that, to limit God and make Him weak???? If there are things He could not do no matter how ""hard He tries"" how is that not so?

There is nothing God 'could not do no matter how ""hard he tries"".' There are things he simply cannot do because his nature precludes them from even being a consideration. It has absolutely nothing to do with limit God or making him weak.

True as well. God has no intentions on ditching His Nature. And likely has none for playing games with "logically impossible".

You have missed the point entirely. God cannot go against his nature. That is absolutely impossible. You're also fallaciously begging the question again.

No no, EFFECTIVELY cannot.

He absolutely cannot go against his nature. If he could, then that wouldn't be his nature. Do you see the problem yet?

Why would God ever want to violate His character

If you say it is possible and he only chooses not to, then it is always possible he might. That is the problem with your position.

or do with the "logically impossible"?

This doesn't make sense.

"If apple juice has the potential to have lemon juice put into it, it is not apple juice." That's how your argument is like.
Your logic is flawed. He would only "not be light" if He DID perform the action of violating.

My goodness, no. That has nothing to do with what I’ve stated and you have in no way whatsoever proven my logic to be flawed. No offense, but you really need to go and formally learn some logic and critical thinking.

Adam and eve were sinless until they sinned.

Yes, because they were humans, not God.

So why should God be not God if He can but doesnt sin??

If God can sin, then his nature isn't such that he is immutable. It means he could change if he wanted and he just might. He is therefore untrustworthy and not the God of the Bible.

Under your logic, adam n eve wouldve sinned upon their creation.

Again, no, that has nothing to do with anything I've stated.

Arguing in circles does not help the case.

What circles?

Assumption with 0 proof, we have proof the "logically impossible" is possible because of the notable LACK of exceptions to God's Power in the Bible. The big picture is, all the "God cannot" are EFFECTIVELY cannot.

You do not understand either the nature of logic or the nature of God.

He could if He wanted to.

And this proves that your understanding of the nature of God is very wrong. This is a logical contradiction which is nonsense. If God is omniscient, then it is impossible that he could ever learn anything, since by definition, he already knows everything. If God can learn "if He wanted to," then that means he is ignorant of some things, and maybe many things, and therefore he cannot be omniscient. Which means he is not the God of the Bible.

See, you're making God less than he is, which is to say that he is no longer God.

Especially those who doubt His ability to do the "logically impossible".

I've just proven, as have others, that your position is in serious error. God cannot do the logically impossible because the logically impossible is nonsense and absolutely impossible. It has nothing to do with God or his being omnipotent. It's a complete and utter failure to understand the nature of logic and the nature of God. You are making God much less than he is.

Really, it seems like the phrase "logically impossible" is just a synonym for "unable to be discerned/recieved/concieved/understood by humans".

Not at all.

Yep. But there is no good reason for God to desire to do such.
If you had the power to do the logically 'impossible', would you want to? No? Okay then i dont see the problem.

You don’t seem to understand the problem, which is based on logical reasoning. If God can create a rock too heavy for him to lift, then he cannot be omnipotent. If God cannot create a rock too heavy for him to lift, then he cannot be omnipotent. Either way, he cannot be omnipotent.

Atheists used to use that argument all the time to try to prove that God is not omnipotent, except that Christian theologians, apologists, and philosophers continued to point out that the problem is with the question—it is nonsensical. It is based on a wrong understanding of omnipotence.

But that is what your position leads to. You are in league with atheists in believing nonsense about God. Your god is neither omnipotent nor omniscient.

Because events throughout history have proven the Bible to be true.

But, you cannot believe anything God says about himself. When Jesus returns, if he even will return, it could be to throw all the Christians in hell and all the unbelievers go to heaven. Maybe there is no heaven or hell, or maybe their is neither. God is completely untrustworthy. He could be the greatest possible deceiver. These are the types of things that your position leads to.

We know God does not lie not because of some hard limit, but as you said, He is "Good in and of Himself"

God cannot lie because it is impossible for him to lie. His nature precludes him from the ability to lie. If it's just a choice, then reread the paragraph above.

If man can lie, how can i know YOU are telling the truth? How do i know your conclusions are sound if you have potential to be wrong?

That is why one studies and learns theology and critical thinking. It's help one know truth from error.

I do not intend this to be mean, but I need to state things the way I see them here because of the seriousness of your error. Your understanding of logic and the nature of God are elementary, at best. Please, please go get some formal education on these matters. I mean that seriously, for your sake and the sake of the gospel. In the very least, start reading some serious books on theology and logic. I've already recommended Vern Poythress's Logic. It's a big book, but it starts with the basics. Very well worth the read.