CAN God do the the logically impossible? Why / why not?

[jasonc]

I can’t tell what your point is, although it seems you may have completely missed mine.

They seem to ignore that conundrum that if God can lie ,he surely could and isn't trustworthy

A choice that doesn't exist for God as he can't lie not sin is the most assurance we have that He is faithful.no shadow of turning .it isn't in Him nor would it be in any realm of possibility

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

I can’t tell what your point is, although it seems you may have completely missed mine.

You don't have any point, all these questions you asked are bogus with false premise.

 

[Free]

You don't have any point, all these questions you asked are bogus with false premise.

Then you clearly didn't understand the point. Maybe you should re-read the title and go back to the beginning of the discussion--it might make more sense.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Then you clearly didn't understand the point. Maybe you should re-read the title and go back to the beginning of the discussion--it might make more sense.

Maybe you clearly didn't understand who God is, or you wouldn't have asked these loaded questions,

 

[Free]

Maybe you clearly didn't understand who God is, or you wouldn't have asked these loaded questions,

Perhaps you should just stop posting in this thread. Of course, you could just ask questions so you can actually learn something rather than be condescending, which is made worse as you really don't understand what is being discussed.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Perhaps you should just stop posting in this thread. Of course, you could just ask questions so you can actually learn something rather than be condescending, which is made worse as you really don't understand what is being discussed.

Says you who raised a series of loaded questions first, and condescendingly mocked others for lack of understanding. If I didn't understand, I wouldn't have exposed the false premises in your questions.

 

[Free]

Says you who raised a series of loaded questions first, and condescendingly mocked others for lack of understanding. If I didn't understand, I wouldn't have exposed the false premises in your questions.

Okay, I can see you made your choice.

 

[Fastfredy0]

God is the source of logic

... interesting thought .... If God didn't exist then nothing would exist ... maybe like evil to exist is must have a host and same for logic?
... continuing, If the only thing the ever existed was an amoeba .... would not logic exist?
... or can logic exist even though nothing else exists... it just would need a host to comprehend that logic exists?
Hmmm ... too deep for me... interesting

... still stuck on how 1 + 1 = 2 ...

 

[Free]

... interesting thought .... If God didn't exist then nothing would exist ... maybe like evil to exist is must have a host and same for logic?
... continuing, If the only thing the ever existed was an amoeba .... would not logic exist?
... or can logic exist even though nothing else exists... it just would need a host to comprehend that logic exists?
Hmmm ... too deep for me... interesting

... still stuck on how 1 + 1 = 2 ...

Well, if all that ever existed was an "amoeba," then it would, by definition, have to be a necessary being that has all the attributes of . . . God. As such, it wouldn't in any sense be an amoeba as we know them, it would just be God.

 

[Fastfredy0]

God is the source of logic

Well, if all that ever existed was an "amoeba," then it would, by definition, have to be a necessary being that has all the attributes of . . . God. As such, it wouldn't in any sense be an amoeba as we know them, it would just be God.

I guess I'm asking ... does God have to exist for logic to exist. I grant logic is of no use if nothing exists but even if God didn't exist, wouldn't 1+1=2 and ... .A cannot be "NOT A". Do we need God for this to be true or to cause it to be true.
I don't think so.
Just like God cannot make show a circle that is a square ... I don't think that He created such a rule. I grant someone has to define what a circle and square is, but once the definition is secured I don't see one needs God to create said rule where said rule is but one aspect of logic.

Maybe I misunderstood what you meant when you said "God is the source of logic".

 

[Free]

I guess I'm asking ... does God have to exist for logic to exist. I grant logic is of no use if nothing exists but even if God didn't exist, wouldn't 1+1=2 and ... .A cannot be "NOT A". Do we need God for this to be true or to cause it to be true.
I don't think so.

Yes, if God didn't exist, logic and mathematics wouldn't exist. It's like love. Love exists because God is love; it is an attribute of his nature. If logic existed apart from God, it would be an absolute above him and he would then be subject to it. But, the Bible teaches that God is absolute and everything is subject to him, since he created everything.

'The constancy of God's character provides us an absolute basis for us to trust in his faithfulness to us. And this faithfulness includes logical consistency rather than illogicality. God "cannot deny himself" (2 Tim. 2:13). He always acts in accordance with who he is.
...
Logic is in fact an aspect of his character, because it expresses the consistency of God and the faithfulness of God. Consistency and faithfulness belong to the character of God. We can say that they are attributes of God. God is who he is (Ex. 3:14), and what he is includes his consistency and faithfulness. There is nothing more ultimate than God. So God is the source for logic. The character of God includes his logicality.' (Very Poythress, Logic, p. 63)

" Our experience of thinking, reasoning, and forming arguments imitates God and reflects the mind of God. Our logic reflects God's logic. Logic, then, is an aspect of God's mind. Logic is universal among all human beings in all cultures, because there is only one God, and we are all made in the image of God." (Ibid, p. 64)

Just like God cannot make show a circle that is a square ... I don't think that He created such a rule. I grant someone has to define what a circle and square is, but once the definition is secured I don't see one needs God to create said rule where said rule is but one aspect of logic.

I'm not too sure I understand what you're saying here.

Maybe I misunderstood what you meant when you said "God is the source of logic".

Do you understand now?

 

[jasonc]

Yes, if God didn't exist, logic and mathematics wouldn't exist. It's like love. Love exists because God is love; it is an attribute of his nature. If logic existed apart from God, it would be an absolute above him and he would then be subject to it. But, the Bible teaches that God is absolute and everything is subject to him, since he created everything.

'The constancy of God's character provides us an absolute basis for us to trust in his faithfulness to us. And this faithfulness includes logical consistency rather than illogicality. God "cannot deny himself" (2 Tim. 2:13). He always acts in accordance with who he is.
...
Logic is in fact an aspect of his character, because it expresses the consistency of God and the faithfulness of God. Consistency and faithfulness belong to the character of God. We can say that they are attributes of God. God is who he is (Ex. 3:14), and what he is includes his consistency and faithfulness. There is nothing more ultimate than God. So God is the source for logic. The character of God includes his logicality.' (Very Poythress, Logic, p. 63)

" Our experience of thinking, reasoning, and forming arguments imitates God and reflects the mind of God. Our logic reflects God's logic. Logic, then, is an aspect of God's mind. Logic is universal among all human beings in all cultures, because there is only one God, and we are all made in the image of God." (Ibid, p. 64)


I'm not too sure I understand what you're saying here.


Do you understand now?

Why how reformed of you

 

[follower]

Remember God hates those who have a heart of perversion. Those who God Judges are Judged Rightly.
It's not , rather, a matter of CAN God do something, as simply What Does God Say About Something (Anything).

Agreeing with God will get you in trouble in the world. <................ edit out ............. >(I couldn't edit the original).
1 Corinthians 2:14 ESV - The natural person does… | Biblia

The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because...

Yes, if God didn't exist, logic and mathematics wouldn't exist.

Logic and math do not necessarily indicate something or anything is of God or from heaven.
Lack of logic and math may be a good thing , seeing the damage they can and do cause throughout the world.

 

[follower]

A man coming back to life after days in his tomb isn't logical. Lazarus would disagree.

?? What would Lazarus disagree with ?
Neither logic nor math is able to raise someone from the grave.
Jesus is , of course , well able to do so.

 

[Free]

Logic and math do not necessarily indicate something or anything is of God or from heaven.

No, they certainly do not, but they wouldn’t exist without him. Well, nothing would.

Lack of logic and math may be a good thing , seeing the damage they can and do cause throughout the world.

Lack of logic would be a very bad thing. Not using critical thinking or sound reasoning is one of the reasons for the way the world currently is. Any good thing can cause damage throughout the world, such as the improper use of logic by fallen people.

 

[Tenchi]

I have found nowhere in the Bible does it remotely indicate that He is not able to do the logically impossible.
The Bible basically says that what is impossible with man is possible with God. There is a notable lack of exception to what is possible with God in the verse(s).

Are you thoroughly familiar with why Christian philosophers and theologians say that God cannot do anything that is logically impossible?

While we do see God acting in the record of the Bible in supernatural (above nature) and unexpected ways, ways contrary to human "wisdom," do we ever see Him doing logically impossible things? Not that can think of. Why is that, do you think?

We can concieve the "logically impossible", and if the Ontological argument can support God's existence, it can absolutely support God's ability to do logically impossible things like make a square circle.

Can you conceive of a square circle? You might be able to speak of the possibility of such a thing, but the actual thing itself, an actual square possessing no right angles, or a circle having four right angles, is beyond human manufacture. It's a nonsense idea, essentially - that is, it's a thing we can posit theoretically but that is, practically-speaking, meaningless. When you suggest that God could create such a thing, then, you don't (really, you can't) have any concrete idea what it is you're talking about. What, then, do you mean when you say that God could create a square circle? What is a square circle? Nobody knows. Because it's an impossibility.

I could posit that God could create a popudongcapushinkle. It's a ten-dimensional artifact that exists non-dimensionally; it's totally immaterial, but grey in color and hard as rock; it is, in form, an amorphous, two-sided triangle out of which constantly streams farting, unicorn-flower, ray-muffins. Got it? I hope so, 'cause God can make it if He wanted to. Whatever it is...

When I look at the universe, I don't ever encounter things like the popudoncapushinkle. Instead, I see a rational universe, by which I mean a universe in which there is a regularity of events such that I can anticipate future events from present and past ones; like the Law of Gravity, for instance, or the Laws of Thermodynamics, or Motion. The universe is not full of logically contradictory items, like square circles, or married bachelors, or perfectly-straight crooked lines. In fact, I know of no one who has ever encountered a genuinely logically impossible thing in the universe. Strange, yes. Unexpected, yes. Beyond human power, yes. But not truly logically impossible. Again, what does this suggest about the Creator of the Universe?

So how come we can theorize and stuff about "logically impossible" yet somehow, God Who is INFINITELY POWERFUL can't make such? Sounds unbelievable.

If we say that God has infinite power, by which we mean unconstrained in any way such that the laws of logic and structures of rationality (which ultimately arise from Him, from His logical, rational nature) can be broken, then, as I showed, we end up talking about a state-of-affairs in God that is meaningless to us.

If God is able to carry on in a logically-impossible way, if He is capable of such a thing, then He is so in the way He is regarding all of His other divine attributes: perfect. But what it is for God to be both perfectly rational and unchanging and perfectly irrational and thus constantly vacillating. How would God be both perfectly rational and unchanging (these things go together) AND perfectly the opposite at the same time? Is this the sort of God we see revealed in Creation, Christ and the Bible?

If God wanted us to think there were things He actually couldn't, wouldnt He put it in the Bible?

Well, how about:

Titus 1:2
2 in the hope of eternal life, which God, who cannot lie, promised long ages ago,

1 John 1:5
5 ...God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all.

James 1:17
17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights with whom there is no variation or shadow due to change.

And so on.

I am wary of this belief that appears to be "Weakening God" , in disguise. It really feels like humans trying to limit God with false knowledge and limited understanding.

Yeah, I get this. Hopefully, you can see from the above that there are serious difficulties that arise from saying God, whose capacities are always perfect, can do what is logically-impossible. I see the statement that God cannot do what is logically impossible as an enormously comforting thing, and a necessary feature of the Greatest Possible Being we call God.

 

[follower]

Scripture says society (fallen people) IS death-dealing.
Society uses religion, education, entertainment/hollywood, science, economics, politics, and of course "logic" to excuse their own sins and justify themselves.

 

[Free]

Scripture says society (fallen people) IS death-dealing.
Society uses religion, education, entertainment/hollywood, science, economics, politics, and of course "logic" to excuse their own sins and justify themselves.

Okay, but what is your point and how does it relate to this discussion?

 

[follower]

All these questions are raised with false premises.

I can’t tell what your point is, although it seems you may have completely missed mine.

If a house is built on quicksand (false premises),
is it better to stop building, to dig down to bedrock, or to abandon it ?

 

[follower]

?? What would Lazarus disagree with ?
Neither logic nor math is able to raise someone from the grave.
Jesus is , of course , well able to do so.

Jesus is Truth.