Can you continue to knowingly sin and remain a Christian?

[Hopeful]

Because the children of God, his seed, still have the flesh to contend with, and so his children will sometimes bear the fruit of the flesh, the fruit of death, along with the fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:17). In this New Covenant, the word of God itself is not what bears fruit contrary to the word of God, nor causes it, as it did without the Spirit in the time of the law (Romans 7:8-10, Romans 7:16-17).

You must have missed Rom 6:6-7.
And Gal 5:24.
And Col 2:11.
Skin and bones are not damning.
In the reborn, they are the temple of the Holy Ghost.

 

[Hopeful]

Well, I knew you'd figure out some way to make 1 Corinthians 10:13 not mean what it says, lol.

God promises escapes from what we cannot handle.
I thank Him for that.

The promises of God are for believers not unbelievers. Unbelievers do not have the promise of God's Spirit in them to work on their behalf.

12remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. Ephesians 2:12

Unbelievers have no relationship with God through Christ through which to receive the benefits and privileges of the Holy Spirit.

It is the unbelievers who transgress the promises.

 

[Hopeful]

To walk in the Spirit is to resist what is contrary to the flesh, not just not want what is contrary to the flesh. We know this by the simple fact that we are tempted. Temptation means you have a desire for something contrary to the Spirit.

To walk in the Spirit is to resist what is contrary to the Spirit.
Just as Jesus was able to reject temptation so too can we now that our flesh has been crucified with the affections and lusts. (Gal 5:24)

Sometimes we will satisfy the desires of the flesh, because the flesh is still present for the believer along with the Spirit - Galatians 5:17.

Your "we" are not walking in the Spirit if they succumb to the flesh.
They have not been reborn of Gods seed.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Amen.
Even when others try to nullify and diminish it.

The promise to be able to resist temptation is nullified when believers do not avail themselves of the escape God has provided to resist temptation.

When He starts with pure gold, it can't get any more pure.

Him starting out with pure gold is like saying he starts out with mature adults who do not need teaching and training in righteousness.

I call that growth in grace and knowledge.

We don’t need to grow in grace and knowledge if we are already perfect. And yet we are to do that, so we know we do not become sinlessly perfect when we are born again.

 

[Hopeful]

The children of God are growing up into maturity, not starting out there. Believers don't take the escape because of ignorance, or inexperience, or lack of vigilance, or weakness. In time, as the traits of the Spirit increase in a person (2 Peter 1:8), they learn to avail themselves of the escape more and more, becoming more like their Father, just as that is true of any child.

Maturity and purity are two different things.
If a new convert is unaware of his power to find God's promised escapes from temptation, God won't allow him to be tempted.

No, not because they are not born again, but because the flesh is still present for the born again believer - Galatians 5:17. That is where sin comes from in the believer's life, not from the Holy Spirit in them (Romans 7:18, 20).

Rom 8:9..."But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his."
The ones not walking in the Spirit are still born of Adam's seed.
They are not reborn.

 

[Hopeful]

The promise to be able to resist temptation is nullified when believers do not avail themselves of the escape God has provided to resist temptation.

That shows they love something above their love of God.
If that is a believer, and not an idolator, to you, then you should do some more reading after a real repentance from sin.

Him starting out with pure gold is like saying he starts out with mature adults who do not need teaching and training in righteousness.

Not necessarily.
Pure gold can be molded into very valuable articles.
Unpurified gold is only used for false jewelry and cheap trinkets.

We don’t need to grow in grace and knowledge if we are already perfect. And yet we are to do that, so we know we do not become sinlessly perfect when we are born again.

Is a human baby born with a college degree or the skill of a mechanic?
No, but it is still a human.
And we are children of God if we illustrate God by our lives.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Miraculous is a better term.

Magiculous!

 

[Tenchi]

I have seen no refuting of the fact that apple seeds can not bring forth peaches or pumpkins.
Men don't gather figs from thistles. (Matt 7:16)

But you have been given an explanation as to why your rigid application of the seed-fruit analogy is inappropriate across categories of things: Humans are not plants. As well, Scripture defies the rigidity of your application of the analogy, giving plenty of examples of born-again believers who were sinful and still in possession of their membership in God's family.

 

[Hopeful]

But you have been given an explanation as to why your rigid application of the seed-fruit analogy is inappropriate across categories of things: Humans are not plants.

Seed can only bring forth after itself.
What is so hard to understand about that?
God said it in Gen 1:11..."And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so."
If men are reborn of God's seed, they can no longer bring forth the fruit of Adam or the devil.

As well, Scripture defies the rigidity of your application of the analogy, giving plenty of examples of born-again believers who were sinful and still in possession of their membership in God's family.

Name one.

 

[Tenchi]

Seed can only bring forth after itself.

We aren't plants. Obviously.

What is so hard to understand about that?

You tell me. See above.

God said it in Gen 1:11..."And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so."

Again, we aren't plants. Really. We aren't.

Name one.

I already have in at least two posts of mine to this thread. Try reading them.

 

[Hopeful]

We aren't plants. Obviously.



You tell me. See above.



Again, we aren't plants. Really. We aren't.



I already have in at least two posts of mine to this thread. Try reading them.

Seed is seed.
Was Jesus wrong to ask if figs could be gathered of thistles?
Your POV nullifies the effects of rebirth from God's seed.

 

[gordon777]

Seems you take your doctrine from a translation.
You got to get to the root of a word to understand what God says.
Words have meaning. God uses words. Therefore, learn words to get God's meaning.

The meaning of words is the doing of them, or they have no meaning.


James 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

James 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

 

[gordon777]

Do you think Jesus' words calling the Pharisees and lawyers liars, hypocrites, and sons of the devil were fruit of the Spirit?

Sometimes the blind have their eyes opened by presentations of the truth.

Do you see Apostle Paul calling Pharisees liars, hypocrites, and sons of the devil ?


No, we see a different way, as he is a different person. ( Paul is not the creator, Jesus Christ is the creator, Paul like all other, is the created, Jesus has right to say, who is who.)


Now, tell us all, do you see a different way n Paul, or not, of giving no offence, but of pleasing all men in all things, to avoid strife, because of not being the Lord, but of being a servant of the Lord, in meekness giving instruction, is how anyone can recover out f the snare of the devil.

How does strife, debate, contention, perverse disputes of men, mean you are following peace and holiness with all men ? ( I know the one you are debating with, Jethro, shows contention as a positive, to contend for the faith, so you are 100 percent in contention, as if it is doing right in the Lords name.)

There is no truth in your defence, nor in your contentions/debate, disputes.



Romans 15:1 We then that are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves.
2 Let every one of us please his neighbour for his good to edification.
3 For even Christ pleased not himself; but, as it is written, The reproaches of them that reproached thee fell on me.

1 Corinthians 10:32 Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:
33 Even as I please all men in all things, not seeking mine own profit, but the profit of many, that they may be saved.

2 Timothy 2:23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.
24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

Hebrews 12:14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:
15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;

 

[gordon777]

It is written..."And of some have compassion, making a difference:
23 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh." (Jude 22-23)
There is more than one way to skin a...banana.

Keeping ourselves in the love of God is not in strife, debate, contention and debate, that is keeping ourselves out of the love of God.

Because the love of God is the Spirit, which are these again for you:


Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,


Jude 1:21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
22 And of some have compassion, making a difference:
23 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.




How does being in strife, variance ( differences in opinion) emulation ( to match or surpass a person )wrath, ( debates) are works of the flesh displayed very loudly every moment the seditions continue. ( all that is shown is no listening or caring)


Matthew 10:35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

Galatians 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,



Try to take a step back from all that's done daily, try consenting to the wholesome words and esteeming the other better, ( lowliness of mind) not trying to b the better and even giving example of calling people hypocrites, as if that is how we are supposed to be.



1 Timothy 6:3 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,
5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.

Philippians 2:3 Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves.




God said men these days cant be corrected as they are FILLED WITH DEBATE, TOO PROUD ARE INVENTERS OF EVIL THINGS IMPLACABLE ( NOT ABLE TO BE CORRCTED)..


Romans 1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful.

 

[gordon777]

Nonsense. All those who love God today were at one time His enemies (Ephesians 2:1-4; Titus 3:3-5; Colossians 1:21; Romans 3:10, 23). Sinners can - and do - love God, like the apostle Paul, hating the sin they commit, but committing it anyway (Romans 7:14-25), only progressively coming more and more fully under the Spirit's constant control and thus increasingly free of the power of Self and sin.

Apostle Paul has not shown any sin he committed, it is 100 percent only your own private interpretation, that claims he sinned.

What sin do you say Apostle Paul did, seeing as you would have to invent what it would be, would it be fornication, false witness, stealing ?

It cant be stealing, he worked to not be chargeable, as we are commanded to do also.




1 Corinthians 4:12 And labour, working with our own hands: being reviled, we bless; being persecuted, we suffer it:

1 Thessalonians 2:9 For ye remember, brethren, our labour and travail: for labouring night and day, because we would not be chargeable unto any of you, we preached unto you the gospel of God.

2 Thessalonians 3:8 Neither did we eat any man's bread for nought; but wrought with labour and travail night and day, that we might not be chargeable to any of you:

1 Thessalonians 411 And that ye study to be quiet, and to do your own business, and to work with your own hands, as we commanded you;
12 That ye may walk honestly toward them that are without, and that ye may have lack of nothing.



It cant be false witness as he lied not, plus what example is a liar for us to also not lie, putting off those deeds of the old flesh, and put on the new renewed in the Spirit of truth.





2 Corinthians 11:31 The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which is blessed for evermore, knoweth that I lie not.

Galatians 1:20 Now the things which I write unto you, behold, before God, I lie not.

Colossians 3:9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;
10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew.



Do you imagine it was fornication Paul hated to do, but did it anyway, or not that ?

It cant be Paul secretly fornicating, and then they followed someone who must go out of this world ? ( the unfruitful workers of darkness, do their shame in secret, Paul has not confessed to any sins of what was actually done.)




1 Corinthians 5:10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.

Ephesians 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.




Do you really have misunderstanding in a chapter, that makes you conclude that Apostle Paul has done unlisted, unconfessed sins ?

 

[gordon777]

For the three in debate in this thread, you do not seem to have answers for each other, you are not able to correct one another, you are going around and around in endless circles, as you have done for years and years, to what good do you think you are winning ?

The first to keep silent, would be the first to make a difference, to win something they have not won for all the yars they have tried.


But, what one is honourable, to stop the other from constantly being in the same strife with them, and will not continue to be the fool in meddling together and to what end...



Proverbs 20:3 It is an honour for a man to cease from strife: but every fool will be meddling.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Name one.

Peter and Barnabas "stood to be condemned", and "were not walking in line with the gospel" in Acts 2:11-14.

Can't wait to see how you rationalize that away.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Seed can only bring forth after itself.
What is so hard to understand about that?

Nobody is saying sin comes from the Holy Spirit.

Sin comes from the flesh, which every believer still has.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Was Jesus wrong to ask if figs could be gathered of thistles?

Fruit trees don't always have fruit, and have bad fruit along with the good.
How does that fit into your doctrine of sinless perfection?

You're missing the point of the analogy. He's drawing the stark contrast between true and false prophets, like the difference between wolves and sheep. You don't approach a thorn bush to seek fruit, just as you would not approach a person who has no fruit of the Spirit to receive spiritual truth from God. You recognize a true believer by the fruit that they bear. It's not a sermon about how true believers are perfectly sinless.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

That shows they love something above their love of God.
If that is a believer, and not an idolator, to you, then you should do some more reading after a real repentance from sin.

The ever increasing traits and fruit of the Spirit is what confirms ones calling and election. These are the plain words of scripture that nullify your sinless perfection doctrine. You un-rightly divide scripture by lifting scripture out of context to nullify Peter's words.