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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Tired of all the political strife and infighting?
Find out how Christians are supposed to act in the following study
https://christianforums.net/threads/charismatic-bible-studies-1-peter-2-11-17.109823/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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Can you continue to knowingly sin and remain a Christian?
Agreed, and it manifests not being reborn of God's seed.
That is true...sorta.
They will never walk after the flesh again, as they realize it was killed and buried with Christ.
The seed is just seed: it is what it genders that grows bigger and stronger.
It will never manifest another seed's fruit.
Doesn't God also prevent pumpkins from bringing forth figs?
Seed can only bring forth after itself.
Are you implying that God's seed can bring forth liars, murderers, thieves, and adulterers?
The 1 Cor 10:13 escapes must be taken to be effectual.
Thanks be to God they can be taken.
That promise is to all men.
Not just those who love Him with all their heart, strength, mind, and might.
It is up to us to take the escapes.
I walk in the Spirit, so I "crave" what is contrary to the flesh.
I cannot satisfy the flesh.
LOL
Either way, the result is perfect adherence to the Lord.
Why don't the liars and adulterers look for, and take, the escapes God had promised?
Because they are not reborn of His seed.
Nope, to the glory of God's truth.
It would be a lie, if I was walking in darkness-sin.
But I walk in the light-God, and there is no sin in here.
Praise be to God !
Contending for the faith is against those who have strife, who lie against the truth to say they do right in the Lord's name.
Against false accusers, against the fierce despisers, against the heady, highminded, who have a form of godliness, denying the power by their strife, as ONLY BY PRIDE/HEADY,HIGHMINDED, COMES STRIFE but with the WELL ADVISED IS WISDOM. ( contention)
Proverbs 13:10 Only by pride cometh contention: but with the well advised is wisdom.
Jude 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
2 Timothy 3:3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
James 3:14 But if ye have BITTER ENVYING AND STRIFE IN YOUR HEARTS, glory not, and LIE NOT AGAINST THE TRUTH.
15 THIS WISDOM DESCENDETH NOT FROM ABOVE, but IS EARTHLY, SENSUAL, DEVILISH.
16 For WHERE ENVYING AND STRIFE IS, there IS CONFUSION AND EVERY EVIL WORKS.
But God said they are left off their reprobate minds, ( no morals) to do what is wrong, FULL OF ENVY, DEBATE, DECEIT, WHISPERERS, BACKBITERS, DESPITEFUL PROUD BOASTERS. (ONLY BY PRIDE COMES CONTENTION.)
Everybody can see you guys are fulfilling the verses for the end of the world, and they who commit such thngs are WORTHY OF DEATH, continue to do so, but deny it you wont do.
Romans 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
I know the highminded, heady prideful men wont hear, ( your knowledge puffs yourselves up) but all your perverse disputes solve nothing, because only charity edifies, and charity is not in word, ( text on forums) but in deed and in truth. ( charity alone is NOT PUFFED UP)
Acts 20:30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.
1 Timothy 6:5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.
1 Corinthians 8:1 Now as touching things offered unto idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth.
1 Corinthians 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.
3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.
4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;
7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.
1 John 3:18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.
19 And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.
Acts 20:30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.
1 Timothy 6:5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.
1 Corinthians 8:1 Now as touching things offered unto idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth.
1 Corinthians 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.
3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.
4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;
7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.
1 John 3:18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.
19 And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.
If you guys also cant show what sin is, how would you all not be sinning ?
Sin is not believing in Jesus Christ risen from the dead, and to believe in Him, they are born again doing righteousness.
1 John 2:29 If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.
The strife, debate, contention, disputes, they are not belief in the risen Lord Jesus Christ, they are excuses the Pharisees make to pretend they are questioning, when all they are doing is denying.
Righteousness is to stop what is unrighteous, but that is exactly what people on forums cannot do, as forums are the works of the flesh, convenience for people to let their tongues I in text form) be out of control.
These scriptures are not ignored by you guys, you are on borrowed time, that is why I am showing them.
James 1:18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
19 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath:
20 For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.
21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.
26 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.
27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.
James 3:2 For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body.
3 Behold, we put bits in the horses' mouths, that they may obey us; and we turn about their whole body.
4 Behold also the ships, which though they be so great, and are driven of fierce winds, yet are they turned about with a very small helm, whithersoever the governor listeth.
5 Even so the tongue is a little member, and boasteth great things. Behold, how great a matter a little fire kindleth!
6 And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.
7 For every kind of beasts, and of birds, and of serpents, and of things in the sea, is tamed, and hath been tamed of mankind:
8 But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.
9 Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God.
10 Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be.
11 Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter?
12 Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? either a vine, figs? so can no fountain both yield salt water and fresh.
Sin is not believing in Jesus Christ risen from the dead, and to believe in Him, they are born again doing righteousness.
1 John 2:29 If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.
The strife, debate, contention, disputes, they are not belief in the risen Lord Jesus Christ, they are excuses the Pharisees make to pretend they are questioning, when all they are doing is denying.
Righteousness is to stop what is unrighteous, but that is exactly what people on forums cannot do, as forums are the works of the flesh, convenience for people to let their tongues I in text form) be out of control.
These scriptures are not ignored by you guys, you are on borrowed time, that is why I am showing them.
James 1:18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
19 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath:
20 For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.
21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.
26 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.
27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.
James 3:2 For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body.
3 Behold, we put bits in the horses' mouths, that they may obey us; and we turn about their whole body.
4 Behold also the ships, which though they be so great, and are driven of fierce winds, yet are they turned about with a very small helm, whithersoever the governor listeth.
5 Even so the tongue is a little member, and boasteth great things. Behold, how great a matter a little fire kindleth!
6 And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.
7 For every kind of beasts, and of birds, and of serpents, and of things in the sea, is tamed, and hath been tamed of mankind:
8 But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.
9 Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God.
10 Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be.
11 Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter?
12 Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? either a vine, figs? so can no fountain both yield salt water and fresh.
Men (and women) always find a way to justify themselves. You should smote your breast and say, "God be merciful to me a sinner" like Jesus taught in his story.
Sin is defined by Strong as "harmatia" which means "missing the mark." (think archery).
And it is translated as "sin, sinful, sinned, and all the other cognates in the KJV.
Tenchi
Member
Well, as I've pointed out to you before in other threads, as helpful as the apple tree analogy is, it can only be extended so far before it collapses (as all analogies do). You and I aren't trees, obviously; we're human beings and capable of a great deal more than any tree. This difference shows up, in particular, in our capacity to express our nature in more than a single, linear seed-fruit manner. It seems to me that you use the analogy of seed-and-fruit inappropriately by ignoring that humans have this ability. What plant seed is capable of humor, or poetry, or courage, or love? Having grown from a seed, what plant is able to build a house, or paint a seascape, or play a piano concerto? What plant can cry and laugh, shout in anger or in joy, soothe and coddle a wounded heart in one moment and provoke others to bravery and endurance in another?
There is, then, an obvious, superficial parallel between an apple tree and the fruit it bears and the born-again person and the "fruit" the Spirit bears in them; but, as Scripture reveals, where an apple tree can only bear a single sort of fruit, constrained mechanically, genetically, from bearing anything else, the human person, not being a mindless, soulless plant, produces many (and often opposing) kinds of "fruit." And so, in God's word, born-again Christians are described as "carnal babes in Christ" and "temples of God"; they are criticized for being divisive and prideful but confirmed still as "God's field and buildings"; they are drawn into fleshly legalism, away from the amazing grace and power of God, but are still acknowledged as "brethren"; they wrestle inwardly against opposing "laws," yielding, at times, to one or the other, but desiring fundamentally to know and walk with God. (1 Corinthians 3:1-3, 9, 16; Galatians 3:3, 15; Romans 7:14-25).
It is so obvious in Scripture that "God's seed will never bear liars, thieves or murderers" is false that I can't make sense at all of your need to pretend that God's word doesn't give to us a much more complex - and accurate - rendering of human nature than your carefully-narrowed seed-fruit thinking allows.
Nonsense. All those who love God today were at one time His enemies (Ephesians 2:1-4; Titus 3:3-5; Colossians 1:21; Romans 3:10, 23). Sinners can - and do - love God, like the apostle Paul, hating the sin they commit, but committing it anyway (Romans 7:14-25), only progressively coming more and more fully under the Spirit's constant control and thus increasingly free of the power of Self and sin.
Well, you're a very long way from showing this is so.
This is eisegesis. No natural, straightforward reading of 1 John 1:8-10 necessitates thinking John was speaking strictly of a past condition of sinfulness. And the rest of the record of the NT bears out that born-again people do sin - and, sometimes, quite a lot. Apart from repeating your assertions, I've seen nothing from you that effectively rebuts anything I've pointed out from God's word.
That worked well, in the OT when men couldn't yet walk in the Spirit instead of in the flesh.
Thanks be to God though, we can now !
Can an apple tree ever bring forth anything but apples?
No.
Can Gods seed ever bring forth liars, thieves, murderers, or adulterers?
No,
That is the fruit of the devil's children. (1 John 3:10)
Tenchi
Member
Repeating your points doesn't prove them.
Well, prophets, kings, and priests walked in the Spirit. They had to in order to give God's Word to His people and set them back on course, to vanquish God's human enemies through King David and others, and to offer sacrifices and pray for the people of God.
We can tell how many seeds in an apple, but only God can tell how many apples in a seed.
Jethro Bodine
Member
And yet, you, a born again, new creation in Christ would bear the fruit of the devil if God was not faithful to keep you from temptations that he knows you can not bear (1 Corinthians 10:13). So we know that the born again nature does not mean you are incapable of bearing fruit contrary to the fruit a new creation in Christ bears as you are claiming.
Refute them then.
Can God's seed bring forth liars, thieves, murderers, or adulterers?