Can you continue to knowingly sin and remain a Christian?

[Hopeful]

Well, prophets, kings, and priests walked in the Spirit. They had to in order to give God's Word to His people and set them back on course, to vanquish God's human enemies through King David and others, and to offer sacrifices and pray for the people of God.

They could for short periods of time.
But they couldn't "cast off the flesh", permanently, like NT believers can.

 

[Hopeful]

We can tell how many seeds in an apple, but only God can tell how many apples in a seed.

Every single one of those seeds will bring forth only apples.
Every one of God's seeds can only bring forth the Godly.

 

[Hopeful]

And yet, you, a born again, new creation in Christ would bear the fruit of the devil if God was not faithful to keep you from temptations that he knows you can not bear (1 Corinthians 10:13).

Thanks be to God for being faithful !

So we know that the born again nature does not mean you are incapable of bearing fruit contrary to the fruit a new creation in Christ bears as you are claiming.

He is faithful to all men, but most of them fall to temptation anyway.
"There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it."

By being reborn of God's seed, we can always look for, and find, the escapes from temptation that God promised.
The choice to sin, or not, is in our hands.

 

[gordon777]

Sin is defined by Strong as "harmatia" which means "missing the mark." (think archery).

And it is translated as "sin, sinful, sinned, and all the other cognates in the KJV.

Sin is the devil, lying spirit, exalted, so the mark to not miss is the Spirit of truth, and the Spirit of meekness.


Galatians 6:1 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.

 

[gordon777]

They could for short periods of time.
But they couldn't "cast off the flesh", permanently, like NT believers can.

Wrath, strife, envy, all that a typical forum is, are not the fruits of the Spirit.


Galatians 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.



Making peace, goodness ( to others) meekness, they are not what you can find in an environment of wrath, and strife. ( the typical many years non stop, daily forum discussions/disputes, contentions/debates.)





Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

 

[gordon777]

I made a thread, lie detector, any liar cant hide any longer, all deceiving ways are known, their only truth they can possibly speak, is to keep quiet.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Thanks be to God for being faithful !

It's a great promise. One that should instill the faith in us that when we are tempted to sin we really can, in faith. turn away from it in victory.

He is faithful to all men, but most of them fall to temptation anyway.
"There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it."

He is faithful to his own to not let us be confronted by temptations that he knows we really aren't prepared to face.

I like the analogy of gold. It's actually a soft metal and one that you can ruin if you subject it to too much heat in the refining process. Because God is the master goldsmith we come forth as pure gold from the refining process of the trials and tribulations of life he knows will accomplish that.

By being reborn of God's seed, we can always look for, and find, the escapes from temptation that God promised.
The choice to sin, or not, is in our hands.

That's what it's all about. It's about God changing our minds about sin and training us as children, born of his seed, to love his ways more and more and the ways of the flesh less and less. The ever increasing traits of the Spirit in us being the evidence that the Spirit is in us in salvation completing the task of making us in practice the holy vessels God has set us apart and anointed and cleansed us to be.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Can God's seed bring forth liars, thieves, murderers, or adulterers?

Yes, God's seed, his children, can sin...if he allows them to be subjected to temptations that he knows they can not endure (1 Corinthians 10:13). This shows us that your doctrine that children born of God's seed can not sin because born again people are perfect and unable to sin is false.

Even if you wanted to defend some kind of sinless perfection doctrine the only argument you'd have is that God's seed always choose to take the escape God has provided them in the temptations that he has allowed them to be subjected to. But as it is, God's children don't always do that. That doesn't mean they aren't really God's children. It means they are God's children growing up in the trials and tribulations of this life into the image and stature of their Father, just like any child does.

 

[jeremiah1five]

They could for short periods of time.
But they couldn't "cast off the flesh", permanently, like NT believers can.

Wow!
Magic!

 

[jeremiah1five]

Sin is the devil, lying spirit, exalted, so the mark to not miss is the Spirit of truth, and the Spirit of meekness.


Galatians 6:1 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.

Seems you take your doctrine from a translation.
You got to get to the root of a word to understand what God says.
Words have meaning. God uses words. Therefore, learn words to get God's meaning.

 

[Tenchi]

Refute them then.
Can God's seed bring forth liars, thieves, murderers, or adulterers?

??? I have. Repeatedly. To which refutations you simply parrot your faulty notions. Such parroting, though, does not constitute a reasoned defense of your views.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Doesn't God also prevent pumpkins from bringing forth figs?
Seed can only bring forth after itself.

Because the children of God, his seed, still have the flesh to contend with, and so his children will sometimes bear the fruit of the flesh, the fruit of death, along with the fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:17). In this New Covenant, the word of God itself is not what bears fruit contrary to the word of God, nor causes it, as it did without the Spirit in the time of the law (Romans 7:8-10, Romans 7:16-17).

 

[Jethro Bodine]

That promise is to all men.
Not just those who love Him with all their heart, strength, mind, and might.
It is up to us to take the escapes.

Well, I knew you'd figure out some way to make 1 Corinthians 10:13 not mean what it says, lol.

The promises of God are for believers not unbelievers. Unbelievers do not have the promise of God's Spirit in them to work on their behalf.

12remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. Ephesians 2:12

Unbelievers have no relationship with God through Christ through which to receive the benefits and privileges of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I walk in the Spirit, so I "crave" what is contrary to the flesh.

To walk in the Spirit is to resist what is contrary to the flesh, not just not want what is contrary to the flesh. We know this by the simple fact that we are tempted. Temptation means you have a desire for something contrary to the Spirit.

I cannot satisfy the flesh.

Sometimes we will satisfy the desires of the flesh, because the flesh is still present for the believer along with the Spirit - Galatians 5:17.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Why don't the liars and adulterers look for, and take, the escapes God had promised?

The children of God are growing up into maturity, not starting out there. Believers don't take the escape because of ignorance, or inexperience, or lack of vigilance, or weakness. In time, as the traits of the Spirit increase in a person (2 Peter 1:8), they learn to avail themselves of the escape more and more, becoming more like their Father, just as that is true of any child.

Because they are not reborn of His seed.

No, not because they are not born again, but because the flesh is still present for the born again believer - Galatians 5:17. That is where sin comes from in the believer's life, not from the Holy Spirit in them (Romans 7:18, 20).

 

[Hopeful]

Wrath, strife, envy, all that a typical forum is, are not the fruits of the Spirit.

Do you think Jesus' words calling the Pharisees and lawyers liars, hypocrites, and sons of the devil were fruit of the Spirit?

Making peace, goodness ( to others) meekness, they are not what you can find in an environment of wrath, and strife. ( the typical many years non stop, daily forum discussions/disputes, contentions/debates.)

Sometimes the blind have their eyes opened by presentations of the truth.

Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

It is written..."And of some have compassion, making a difference:
23 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh." (Jude 22-23)
There is more than one way to skin a...banana.

 

[Hopeful]

It's a great promise. One that should instill the faith in us that when we are tempted to sin we really can, in faith. turn away from it in victory.

Amen.
Even when others try to nullify and diminish it.

He is faithful to his own to not let us be confronted by temptations that he knows we really aren't prepared to face.
I like the analogy of gold. It's actually a soft metal and one that you can ruin if you subject it to too much heat in the refining process. Because God is the master goldsmith we come forth as pure gold from the refining process of the trials and tribulations of life he knows will accomplish that.

When He starts with pure gold, it can't get any more pure.

That's what it's all about. It's about God changing our minds about sin and training us as children, born of his seed, to love his ways more and more and the ways of the flesh less and less. The ever increasing traits of the Spirit in us being the evidence that the Spirit is in us in salvation completing the task of making us in practice the holy vessels God has set us apart and anointed and cleansed us to be.

I call that growth in grace and knowledge.

 

[Hopeful]

Yes, God's seed, his children, can sin...if he allows them to be subjected to temptations that he knows they can not endure (1 Corinthians 10:13). This shows us that your doctrine that children born of God's seed can not sin because born again people are perfect and unable to sin is false.

Then 1 John 3:9-10 are lies.
So are Jesus' parables about gathering grapes from thorns and figs from thistles. (Matt 7:16)
And James' words about getting figs from olive berries. (James 3:12)

Even if you wanted to defend some kind of sinless perfection doctrine the only argument you'd have is that God's seed always choose to take the escape God has provided them in the temptations that he has allowed them to be subjected to.

So be it !
We also know that those not reborn of God's seed are the ones ignoring God's precious escapes.

But as it is, God's children don't always do that. That doesn't mean they aren't really God's children. It means they are God's children growing up in the trials and tribulations of this life into the image and stature of their Father, just like any child does.

You don't seem to be able to tell Gods children from satan's children.
Here is a hint...look at the fruit.

 

[Hopeful]

Wow!
Magic!

Miraculous is a better term.

 

[Hopeful]

??? I have. Repeatedly. To which refutations you simply parrot your faulty notions. Such parroting, though, does not constitute a reasoned defense of your views.

I have seen no refuting of the fact that apple seeds can not bring forth peaches or pumpkins.
Men don't gather figs from thistles. (Matt 7:16)