Can you continue to knowingly sin and remain a Christian?

[jeremiah1five]

The meaning of words is the doing of them, or they have no meaning.


James 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

James 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

Faith in God is founded on knowledge.
Knowledge of the Word of God.
The more knowledge the more faith (trust).
But the Spirit of Truth does not use lies, falsehood, error, and heresy to grow a Christian.

 

[Tenchi]

Apostle Paul has not shown any sin he committed, it is 100 percent only your own private interpretation, that claims he sinned.

What sin do you say Apostle Paul did, seeing as you would have to invent what it would be, would it be fornication, false witness, stealing ?

How would I know unless he stipulated in his letters what his sin was? Though Paul didn't go into detail, he did make it very clear that he struggled with - and fell into - sin.

Romans 7:14-21 (NASB)
14 For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am of flesh, sold into bondage to sin.
15 For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate.

Paul didn't frame his explanation here in the past tense, his struggle with sin now over. No, he wrote, "What I am doing," not "what I used to do," or "what I once did." But Paul is writing as a born-again apostle. According to you, he should be utterly without sin. But this isn't at all what he indicated about himself.

16 But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good.
17 So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.
18 For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not.

Again, Paul did not write in the past tense but uses language that indicated a present and on-going battle with the "Law of Sin in his members." He didn't write "if I used to do the very thing I didn't want to do...," or "For I know that before the Holy Spirit came to live in me, nothing good dwelled in me." Instead, he wrote of a current state-of-affairs where "the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not."

19 For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want.
20 But if I am doing the very thing I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.
21 I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good.

And here, too, Paul continued to write of his struggle with sin in a current sense: "the good that I want, I do not do," and "I practice (not practiced) the very evil that I do not want." But this is exactly what we should expect of any human person indwelt by the Holy Spirit who is growing progressively more and more like Christ, as the Bible says is the case (see my earlier posts).

Do you really have misunderstanding in a chapter, that makes you conclude that Apostle Paul has done unlisted, unconfessed sins ?

Brother, you need to be taught how to properly study God's word.

 

[jeremiah1five]

How would I know unless he stipulated in his letters what his sin was? Though Paul didn't go into detail, he did make it very clear that he struggled with - and fell into - sin.

Romans 7:14-21 (NASB)
14 For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am of flesh, sold into bondage to sin.
15 For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate.

Paul didn't frame his explanation here in the past tense, his struggle with sin now over. No, he wrote, "What I am doing," not "what I used to do," or "what I once did." But Paul is writing as a born-again apostle. According to you, he should be utterly without sin. But this isn't at all what he indicated about himself.

16 But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good.
17 So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.
18 For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not.

Again, Paul did not write in the past tense but uses language that indicated a present and on-going battle with the "Law of Sin in his members." He didn't write "if I used to do the very thing I didn't want to do...," or "For I know that before the Holy Spirit came to live in me, nothing good dwelled in me." Instead, he wrote of a current state-of-affairs where "the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not."

19 For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want.
20 But if I am doing the very thing I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.
21 I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good.

And here, too, Paul continued to write of his struggle with sin in a current sense: "the good that I want, I do not do," and "I practice (not practiced) the very evil that I do not want." But this is exactly what we should expect of any human person indwelt by the Holy Spirit who is growing progressively more and more like Christ, as the Bible says is the case (see my earlier posts).



Brother, you need to be taught how to properly study God's word.

One of Paul's issues dealt with lust.
But not necessarily a lust for women. That would be reading into the text what is not there.

Sowwy. Here's the Scripture that aligns with what Tenchi is saying:

7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. Rom. 7:7.

Capeesh?

 

[gordon777]

How would I know unless he stipulated in his letters what his sin was? Though Paul didn't go into detail, he did make it very clear that he struggled with - and fell into - sin.

Romans 7:14-21 (NASB)
14 For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am of flesh, sold into bondage to sin.
15 For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate.

Paul didn't frame his explanation here in the past tense, his struggle with sin now over. No, he wrote, "What I am doing," not "what I used to do," or "what I once did." But Paul is writing as a born-again apostle. According to you, he should be utterly without sin. But this isn't at all what he indicated about himself.

16 But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good.
17 So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.
18 For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not.

Again, Paul did not write in the past tense but uses language that indicated a present and on-going battle with the "Law of Sin in his members." He didn't write "if I used to do the very thing I didn't want to do...," or "For I know that before the Holy Spirit came to live in me, nothing good dwelled in me." Instead, he wrote of a current state-of-affairs where "the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not."

19 For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want.
20 But if I am doing the very thing I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.
21 I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good.

And here, too, Paul continued to write of his struggle with sin in a current sense: "the good that I want, I do not do," and "I practice (not practiced) the very evil that I do not want." But this is exactly what we should expect of any human person indwelt by the Holy Spirit who is growing progressively more and more like Christ, as the Bible says is the case (see my earlier posts).



Brother, you need to be taught how to properly study God's word.

Tenchi, I will give the just the title of the thread I made in answer to your strange ideas...

How to perform the good that we would, when no good dwells in us? Keep that good thing that was committed to us by the Holy Ghost which dwells in us.​

 

[gordon777]

Faith in God is founded on knowledge.
Knowledge of the Word of God.
The more knowledge the more faith (trust).
But the Spirit of Truth does not use lies, falsehood, error, and heresy to grow a Christian.

The knowledge of God is to sin not.


1 Corinthians 15:34 Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

 

[gordon777]

Nobody is saying sin comes from the Holy Spirit.

Sin comes from the flesh, which every believer still has.

Not in the flesh if in the Spirit.



Romans 7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.



Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

 

[jeremiah1five]

The knowledge of God is to sin not.


1 Corinthians 15:34 Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

The KNOWING, the KNOWLEDGE of God is to know Jesus Christ and Him crucified. There is no other knowledge unless the knowledge is first founded IN HIM.

The key is to AWAKE TO RIGHTEOUSNESS (that comes with KNOWING Christ) but some live their lives as Christians at that time ignorant of this very thing.

 

[Tenchi]

Tenchi, I will give the just the title of the thread I made in answer to your strange ideas...

What other deflective answer can you give to the plain facts of Scripture that directly confound your view?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Not in the flesh if in the Spirit.



Romans 7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.



Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Every believer still has the flesh. What born again believers do not have is a mind set on and controlled by the flesh:

7 the mind of the flesh is hostile to God: It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so.
8Those controlled by the fleshd cannot please God.

9You, however, are controlled not by the flesh, but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. Romans 8:7-9

 

[07/07/07]

Here are the plain words of scripture:

16So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17For the flesh craves what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are opposed to each other, so that you do not do what you want. Galatians 5:17

Stop twisting these plain words of scripture to suit your erroneous doctrine of sinless perfection! Paul says we don't do what we want to do because we still have the desires of the flesh, along with the Spirit, not because we are not born again. It plainly says that.

That is not what the Scripture is implying. "...so that you do not do what you want." means you can no longer yeild to the desires of your flesh, but rather to the Word of God.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

That is not what the Scripture is implying. "...so that you do not do what you want." means you can no longer yeild to the desires of your flesh, but rather to the Word of God.

The 'what you want to do' for the Christian is fulfill the desires of the Spirit. You are saying the thing that the Christian wants to do is fulfill the desires of the flesh. That is the mind of the unbeliever. Paul says the person who has his mind set on the flesh does not have the Spirit and does not belong to Christ.

 

[07/07/07]

Even if you wanted to defend some kind of sinless perfection doctrine the only argument you'd have is that God's seed always choose to take the escape God has provided them in the temptations that he has allowed them to be subjected to. But as it is, God's children don't always do that. That doesn't mean they aren't really God's children. It means they are God's children growing up in the trials and tribulations of this life into the image and stature of their Father, just like any child does.

So, yes, I will agree with you on this point. Some of God's children may cave under temptation if the load is heavy, and would be sorrowful and repentant afterward. There's forgiveness for that.

1 John 2
[1] My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
[2] And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. (KJV)

However, the Church is to uphold a righteous standard, teaching and exhorting to overcome the works of the flesh, i.e., sin. By failing to do this, sympathy and weakness may set in for believers and the resolve to resist sin in the time of temptation is not established in their hearts. The result equals giving into the flesh, which God instructs us not to do. Giving in once may result in letting down their defenses — and then it becomes habitually giving into sin. So on point, and the title of this thread, "Can you continue to knowingly sin and remain a Christian?" The Biblical answer is "No".

 

[Hopeful]

Do you see Apostle Paul calling Pharisees liars, hypocrites, and sons of the devil ?


No, we see a different way, as he is a different person. ( Paul is not the creator, Jesus Christ is the creator, Paul like all other, is the created, Jesus has right to say, who is who.)


Now, tell us all, do you see a different way n Paul, or not, of giving no offence, but of pleasing all men in all things, to avoid strife, because of not being the Lord, but of being a servant of the Lord, in meekness giving instruction, is how anyone can recover out f the snare of the devil.

How does strife, debate, contention, perverse disputes of men, mean you are following peace and holiness with all men ? ( I know the one you are debating with, Jethro, shows contention as a positive, to contend for the faith, so you are 100 percent in contention, as if it is doing right in the Lords name.)

There is no truth in your defence, nor in your contentions/debate, disputes.



Romans 15:1 We then that are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves.
2 Let every one of us please his neighbour for his good to edification.
3 For even Christ pleased not himself; but, as it is written, The reproaches of them that reproached thee fell on me.

1 Corinthians 10:32 Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:
33 Even as I please all men in all things, not seeking mine own profit, but the profit of many, that they may be saved.

2 Timothy 2:23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.
24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

Hebrews 12:14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:
15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;

If it is so bad here, why are you remaining?

 

[gordon777]

What other deflective answer can you give to the plain facts of Scripture that directly confound your view?

Tenchi, if you do not know how to perform the good, when you would do good, evil is present with you, I have found a hundred scriptures to help you, if you want, I can show just one per day to answer you, for a hundred days, scriptures I can show from the threads I made on theology today.

 

[gordon777]

The KNOWING, the KNOWLEDGE of God is to know Jesus Christ and Him crucified. There is no other knowledge unless the knowledge is first founded IN HIM.

The key is to AWAKE TO RIGHTEOUSNESS (that comes with KNOWING Christ) but some live their lives as Christians at that time ignorant of this very thing.

The awakening is to sin not, the sleeping is sinning.


1 Peter 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;

2 Peter 2:14 Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:

 

[gordon777]

Every believer still has the flesh. What born again believers do not have is a mind set on and controlled by the flesh:

7 the mind of the flesh is hostile to God: It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so.
8Those controlled by the fleshd cannot please God.

9You, however, are controlled not by the flesh, but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. Romans 8:7-9

Before born again we were weak through the flesh, ( non born again are yet weak through the flesh)

The flesh is condemned in sin, to no longer walk after the flesh ( flesh is gone, or we still walk after it)

They after the flesh ( in the flesh) mind what is of the flesh, only those after the Spirit mind what is of the Spirit. ( as they are not in the flesh)

The carnal mind is the fleshy mind, they cannot please God when thy are yet alive in the flesh.

But we are not in the flesh but in the Spirit ( one or the other, cannot be both)

And if Christ is in us in Spirit, the body ( flesh) is dead, and that is how we cannot be any longer in the flesh. ( it is dead with Christ, to be risen with Him, and alive to righteousness/the Spirit, is dead to sin/the flesh..)



Romans 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

 

[gordon777]

If it is so bad here, why are you remaining?

That's right, we did not see the Apostle Paul calling Pharisees liars and of their father the devil.

I am here to answer the obvious.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Tenchi, if you do not know how to perform the good

Stop this inflammatory nonsense. Tenchi did NOT say he did not know how to perform the good.

Stop provoking him with these ridiculous posts! Galatians 5:26

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I am here to answer the obvious.

I think you're here to look down your nose at us.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Before born again we were weak through the flesh, ( non born again are yet weak through the flesh)

The flesh is condemned in sin, to no longer walk after the flesh ( flesh is gone, or we still walk after it)

They after the flesh ( in the flesh) mind what is of the flesh, only those after the Spirit mind what is of the Spirit. ( as they are not in the flesh)

The carnal mind is the fleshy mind, they cannot please God when thy are yet alive in the flesh.

But we are not in the flesh but in the Spirit ( one or the other, cannot be both)

And if Christ is in us in Spirit, the body ( flesh) is dead, and that is how we cannot be any longer in the flesh. ( it is dead with Christ, to be risen with Him, and alive to righteousness/the Spirit, is dead to sin/the flesh..)



Romans 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

Born again believers still sin. That does not mean they are not born again. It means they still have flesh bodies from which sin comes from in the born again person.