Can you continue to knowingly sin and remain a Christian?

[Jethro Bodine]

The "converts" love knowing that obedience to God is not expected of them. (I write sarcastically)

No, stop twisting the argument.

Obedience to God is not expected of us in order to be justified.
You're showing you still do not understand the gospel.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

yes, I am sorry for you.

1Jo 3:7, Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

Rom 5:19, For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Mat 5:6, Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

Jesus came to save His people from their sins (Matthew 1:21).

A gospel that only saves a person from the penalty of their sins is a sorry gospel indeed.

It is a gospel that will have people in heaven who are sinning.

Thus heaven will not truly be heavenly, in that gospel.

Good luck with your works justification gospel. It's a loser. Hope you find that out before you die.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Jesus came to save His people from their sins (Matthew 1:21).

A gospel that only saves a person from the penalty of their sins is a sorry gospel indeed.

It is a gospel that will have people in heaven who are sinning.

Thus heaven will not truly be heavenly, in that gospel.

Sin dwells in the flesh of the born again person. That part will be shed like the husk of a wheat stalk and will not enter into the kingdom.

 

[justbyfaith]

Good luck with your works justification gospel. It's a loser. Hope you find that out before you die.

I do not by any means think that I am justified by works.

I am both justified and sanctified by faith in Jesus and His shed blood (see Hebrews 13:12, Hebrews 10:29).

 

[justbyfaith]

Sin dwells in the flesh of the born again person. That part will be shed like the husk of a wheat stalk and will not enter into the kingdom.

Better be careful that it is not dwelling in your spirit.

If you don't get sanctified before you die, it may be a sign of that.

 

[justbyfaith]

Good luck with your works justification gospel. It's a loser. Hope you find that out before you die.

So, do you reject the scriptures that I have quoted and referenced?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

A gospel that only saves a person from the penalty of their sins is a sorry gospel indeed.

The true gospel is not a gospel of only being rescued from the penalty of sin. It include the promise of God to raise us up like children of God into his righteous behavior. The part you're not getting is justification is not dependent on you being perfectly righteous. That's the works justification gospel condemned in scripture. You've been deceived by a works gospel that throws in the grace of God to help you achieve the righteous behavior required to be justified, thus making it look like an authentic gospel. Justification is solely on the basis of your faith in the forgiveness of God and the imputation of his righteousness, apart from your works.

 

[justbyfaith]

No, stop twisting the argument.

Obedience to God is not expected of us in order to be justified.
You're showing you still do not understand the gospel.

God gives the Holy Spirit to those who obey Him (Acts 5:32).

What do you make of this?

 

[justbyfaith]

The true gospel is not a gospel of only being rescued from the penalty of sin. It include the promise of God to raise us up like children of God into his righteous behavior. The part you're not getting is justification is not dependent on you being perfectly righteous. That's the works justification gospel condemned in scripture. You've been deceived by a works gospel that throws in the grace of God to help you achieve the righteous behavior required to be justified, thus making it look like an authentic gospel.

I think that you probably have me confused with somebody else.

I know that I am justified by faith alone in Jesus Christ alone.

That He sanctifies me wholly is an added benefit.

Let me just say that I know that if I should sin (violate the law) that there is no condemnation for me.

For I am not under the law (Romans 6:14), am dead to the law (Romans 7:4, Galatians 2:19) and am delivered from the law (Romans 7:6), as concerning condemnation.

I am under the law to Christ, as concerning obedience (1 Corinthians 9:21, Hebrews 8:8-10; Romans 5:5, Romans 13:8-10; 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6).

 

[Jethro Bodine]

If I don't have to sin and also don't want to sin, how can I sin?

Fear, ignorance, immaturity, lack of experience dealing with temptation, etc.

I think that if both things are true, that I cannot sin (even as 1 John 3:9 declares).

God is teaching you how to overcome fear, and immaturity, and all the things that cause his children to act contrary to the fact that they don't have to sin.

Look. Justification is already done for you, if you are a believer. Stop trying to achieve a justification that you already have by virtue of your faith all by itself. That's what 'just by faith' means!

 

[Jethro Bodine]

What do you say to the idea that the moment we are justified by the law (the moment we stop sinning and find justification in that), we are fallen from grace (Galatians 5:1-4)?

I say what the Bible says: It is impossible to be justified by the law. So you are creating a premise that does not exist.

Falling from grace means to have once been justified by the grace of God received through faith and then to have fallen back to trying to be justified by being righteous (or rejecting it altogether).

The Galatians illustrate for us that the reason you have fallen away to works justification determines if you are allowed to come back to repentance. They were being deceived by the Judaizers. They were not purposely and willingly rejecting justification by faith apart from works in some kind of love of sin. And so God was extending the opportunity for them to come back to the real gospel and make Christ effectual towards justification for them again.

 

[justbyfaith]

Fear, ignorance, immaturity, lack of experience dealing with temptation, etc.


God is teaching you how to overcome fear, and immaturity, and all the things that cause his children to act contrary to the fact that they don't have to sin.

Look. Justification is already done for you, if you are a believer. Stop trying to achieve a justification that you already have by virtue of your faith all by itself. That's what 'just by faith' means!

Of course.

As one who has been already justified, I have a desire to live a holy life because God has given me the Holy Spirit to become one with my spirit (1 Corinthians 6:17).

I am not justified by the fact that I am being made holy. I am justified by the blood of Jesus (Romans 5:9) and the blood of Jesus makes me holy (Hebrews 13:12, Hebrews 10:29).

 

[justbyfaith]

and then to have fallen back to trying to be justified by being righteous.

The definition of "justified" is "declared to be righteous".

It is impossible for God to lie (Hebrews 6:18, Titus 1:2).

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I know that I am justified by faith alone in Jesus Christ alone.

What you don't realize is you are serving a deceitfully disguised gospel of grace where you use the grace of God to perform the righteous behavior by which you are justified/saved, and so it looks like the gospel of grace taught in the scriptures. Are you Catholic?

 

[justbyfaith]

I say what the Bible says: It is impossible to be justified by the law.

Rom 2:13, (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
Rom 2:14, For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Rom 2:15, Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another; )

We inadvertently become law-abiding citizens of the kingdom of heaven when we consistently bear the fruit of the Spirit.

Gal 5:22, But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

 

[justbyfaith]

What you don't realize is you are serving a deceitfully disguised gospel of grace where you use the grace of God to perform the righteous behavior by which you are justified/saved, and so it looks like the gospel of grace taught in the scriptures. Are you Catholic?

I am not justified by my righteous behaviour; but solely through the blood of Christ.

While I am thinking of a scripture, which says that without holiness no one will see the Lord.

So, I conclude that the blood of Jesus doesn't only justify; but it also makes us holy.

No, I am not Catholic. I attend a Calvary Chapel; and have been baptized according to Acts 2:38-39.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

The definition of "justified" is "declared to be righteous".

Yes. God looks at our faith in his promise of a Son and imputes his righteousness to us apart from any consideration of our works, and so, declares us righteous. Your righteous behavior contributes nothing toward receiving that righteousness. From that point forward you don't work to receive the righteousness you already have received by faith apart from your works.

 

[justbyfaith]

Yes. God looks at our faith in his promise of a Son and imputes his righteousness to us apart from any consideration of our works, and so, declares us righteous. Your righteous behavior contributes nothing toward receiving that righteousness. From that point forward you don't work to receive the righteousness you already have received by faith apart from your works.

Yes, I am justified by faith as an ungodly person (Romans 4:5). But when God justifies me, He declares me righteous. It is impossible for Him to lie; so I am righteous.

He calls those things which be not as though they are (Romans 4:17)...and creates a new reality in the declaration.

What is righteousness? is it merely being made right with God, or is there a practical aspect to it?

1Jo 3:7, Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I am not justified by my righteous behaviour; but solely through the blood of Christ.

Then why are you trying to be justified by perfect behavior?

While I am thinking of a scripture, which says that without holiness no one will see the Lord.

Yes, but that holiness is not defined as behaviorally perfect. No one will see the Lord if that is true. Simple observation bears this out.

So, I conclude that the blood of Jesus doesn't only justify; but it also makes us holy.

Of course it does. But 'holy' does not mean 'perfectly sinless'. It means set apart for a holy purpose, not that you will always be serving that holy purpose. God will teach you to serve the holy purpose for which you have been set apart.

No, I am not Catholic. I attend a Calvary Chapel; and have been baptized according to Acts 2:38-39.

I'm pretty sure Calvary Chapel does not teach a works justification gospel, not even the Catholic version. So, where did you get this false knowledge from?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Yes, I am justified by faith as an ungodly person (Romans 4:5). But when God justifies me, He declares me righteous. It is impossible for Him to lie; so I am righteous.

Yes! But stop thinking being declared righteous means being perfectly sinless! The only sinless perfection you have lies in the fact that as a believer God erases all traces of your sin guilt when you sin and so he sees you as sinless in that regard. Meanwhile, he has enrolled you in the school of hard knocks teaching you how to have less and less sin guilt to be forgiven.