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Can you continue to knowingly sin and remain a Christian?

justbyfaith said:
So, in context of what the audience listening to Jesus would think of His statement, He was setting forth a tall order.

Yet, what He was proposing was indeed possible because of Matthew 5:6.
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Yes, it is a tall order. But it is easily fulfilled by receiving the gracious gift of God's forgiveness and the imputation of his righteousness. The person who is forgiven in Christ has no sin remaining before God to be condemned for. They are perfectly righteous in his sight because of the cleansing they received and continue to receive, not because they are perfect in behavior. Don't worry about the hypocrite who thinks that's a license to live in willful, deliberate sin like an unbeliever. The person who does that is showing he does not have salvation in the first place for the grace of God to be some kind of license to sin for him.
 
Jethro Bodine said:
Yes, it is a tall order. But it is easily fulfilled by receiving the gracious gift of God's forgiveness and the imputation of his righteousness. The person who is forgiven in Christ has no sin remaining before God to be condemned for. They are perfectly righteous in his sight because of the cleansing they received and continue to receive, not because they are perfect in behavior. Don't worry about the hypocrite who thinks that's a license to live in willful, deliberate sin like an unbeliever. The person who does that is showing he does not have salvation in the first place.
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Matthew 5:20 speaks of the fact that "your" righteousness must exceed that of the scribes and Pharisees; which indicates the practical righteousness in your life. It is not talking about God's imputed righteousness, it is talking about "your" practical righteousness.

This must be on the inside of you according to Romans 5:5, Romans 13:8-10.
 
Hopeful said:
Amen to that.
Are they really believers if they quit following the Lord two days later?
Two years later?
No.
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Obviously, not following Christ is the sign that you do not belong to Christ. Was the person who stopped following Christ ever Christ's? What does it matter? Think what you want about that. Either way that person does not belong to Christ and will not go to be with him when they die. That is what matters, not whether or not they were ever really saved.
 
justbyfaith said:
If you do righteousness then you have the righteousness of God in your behaviour (1 John 3:7).
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That's what the Bible says.

Children of God are characterized by their growth in righteous behavior.
Children of the devil are characterized by their slavery to unrighteous behavior.
That's how we can tell them apart.
 
Jethro Bodine said:
Obviously, not following Christ is the sign that you do not belong to Christ. Was the person who stopped following Christ ever Christ's? What does it matter? Think what you want about that. Either way that person does not belong to Christ and will not go to be with him when they die. That is what matters, not whether or not they were ever really saved.
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If they were never saved in the first place, then it is possible for them to come to repentance according to Hebrews 6:1-8. If they fell away, then it is impossible.
 
Jethro Bodine said:
That's what the Bible says.

Children of God are characterized by their growth in righteous behavior.
Children of the devil are characterized by their slavery to unrighteous behavior.
That's how we can tell them apart.
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If you are righteous even as He is righteous, there is no more growth that can be done. For He is perfectly righteous.
 
justbyfaith said:
It does if you have been given the Holy Ghost; and thus the power to walk in the 180-degree turn that you have made away from sin.
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No, you're heaping a burden on yourself and others that no one can bear.

The Holy Spirit in a person does not mean you will be perfect from that point onward. It means you will grow to be perfect in more and more of life's circumstances. Don't think of perfection in terms of a GPA that you must achieve. Think of it as the goal of your next encounter with the world, the flesh, and the devil.
 
justbyfaith said:
If they were never saved in the first place, then it is possible for them to come to repentance according to Hebrews 6:1-8. If they fell away, then it is impossible.
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If they fell away from a born again experience it is impossible for them to return.

I've met and heard of many 'water only' conversions who fell away and were able to 'come back' to the faith. Let's not be too quick to decide who can and who can not come back to the faith.
 
Jethro Bodine said:
No, you're heaping a burden on yourself and others that no one can bear.

The Holy Spirit in a person does not mean you will be perfect from that point onward. It means you will grow to be perfect in more and more of life's circumstances. Don't think of perfection in terms of a GPA that you must achieve. Think of it as the goal of your next encounter with the world, the flesh, and the devil.
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The Holy Spirit in me means that I am not obligated to obey the flesh (Romans 8:12); and that sin shall not have dominion over me (Romans 6:14).

Whoever sins is a slave of sin (John 8:34).
 
justbyfaith said:
The Holy Spirit in me means that I am not obligated to obey the flesh (Romans 8:12); and that sin shall not have dominion over me (Romans 6:14).

Whoever sins is a slave of sin (John 8:34).
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Don't twist what Paul is saying.
He's not saying you're not capable of being obligatory to the flesh. He's saying you don't have an obligation to serve the flesh. So don't cave into it. You owe it nothing. You're not 'married' to it anymore that you are obligated to serve it's desires, like a wife serves the desires of a husband. Your obligation is to the Spirit. You do owe it everything. Cave into it out of 'marital' obligation instead. Romans 7:1-6
 
Jethro Bodine said:
If they fell away from a born again experience it is impossible for them to return.

I've met and heard of many 'water only' conversions who fell away and were able to 'come back' to the faith. Let's not be too quick to decide who can and who can not come back to the faith.
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I'm saying that if you can repent, you were never saved in the first place, if you are not saved now. Therefore, you can repent, because it is not true that you fell away. You just were never born again.
 
Jethro Bodine said:
Don't twist what Paul is saying.
He's not saying you're not capable of being obligatory to the flesh. He's saying you don't have that obligation. So don't cave into it. You owe it nothing. Your obligation is to the Spirit. You do owe it everything. Cave into it out of obligation instead.
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The fact that I am not obligated to obey the flesh means that I don't have to sin; and therefore I can walk in freedom and victory for an extended period of time; even for the rest of my life (Luke 1:74-75).
 
justbyfaith said:
The fact that I am not obligated to obey the flesh means that I don't have to sin
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Correct, not that you can't sin. It means you don't have to. That is the secret to overcoming sin for the saved, believing child of God. (By the way, I added to that post, reread it if you don't mind).

justbyfaith said:
...and therefore I can walk in freedom and victory for an extended period of time; even for the rest of my life (Luke 1:74-75).
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Maybe, maybe not.
The important thing is that you're on the path to perfection.
You don't have to attain perfection in order to inherit the kingdom.

You have to be a son of God in line for the inheritance to inherit the kingdom of God. By virtue of being a part of Jesus' body you are a member of the Son of God who inherits the blessing. You can't. The only hope you and I have is that God will mercifully accept us and attach us to the Son that does inherit the blessing. And that happens by being forgiven your sins and attached to the body of Christ by being given the same Spirit that is in him.
 
Jethro Bodine said:
Okay, start being honest with yourself and begin to realize that you are not born again and never will be. You serve a very sorry gospel.
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yes, I am sorry for you.

1Jo 3:7, Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

Rom 5:19, For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Mat 5:6, Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

Jesus came to save His people from their sins (Matthew 1:21).

A gospel that only saves a person from the penalty of their sins is a sorry gospel indeed.

It is a gospel that will have people in heaven who are sinning.

Thus heaven will not truly be heavenly, in that gospel.
 
Jethro Bodine said:
Correct, not that you can't sin. It means you don't have to. That is the secret to overcoming sin for the saved, believing child of God. (I added to that post, reread it if you don't mind).
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If I don't have to sin and also don't want to sin, how can I sin?

I think that if both things are true, that I cannot sin (even as 1 John 3:9 declares).

Not because I couldn't go down that path if I wanted to; but because I don't want to and don't have to go down that path.
 
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