Can you continue to knowingly sin and remain a Christian?

[GodsGrace]

1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jn 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.





"the blood of Jesus"

This refers to the sacrificial death of Christ (cf. Isa. 52:13-53:12; Mark 10:45; 2 Cor. 5:21). It is very similar to 1 John 2:2, "the atoning sacrifice (propitiation) for our sins." This is the thrust of John the Baptist's "behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world" (cf. John 1:29). The innocent died on behalf of the guilty!

The early Gnostics denied Jesus' true humanity. John's use of "blood" reinforces Jesus' true humanity.

There is a Greek manuscript variable related to the name.

Jesus ‒ NASB, NRSV, NJB, REB, NET
Christ ‒ MSS א, B, C
Jesus Christ ‒ NKJV


"cleanses us from all sin"

This is a PRESENT ACTIVE INDICATIVE. The term "sin" is SINGULAR with no ARTICLE. This implies every kind of sin. Notice this verse is focusing on a one-time cleansing (salvation, 1 John 1:9), but on an ongoing cleansing (the Christian life). Both are part of the Christian experience (cf. John 13:10).

1:8 "If we say that we have no sin"

This is another THIRD CLASS CONDITIONAL SENTENCE. Sin is a spiritual reality in a fallen world, even for believers (cf. Romans 7; Eph. 4:14; 6:10-18). John's Gospel addresses this issue often (cf. John 9:41; 15:22,24; 19:11). This verse rejects all ancient and modern claims that deny individual moral responsibility.



"we are deceiving ourselves"

This Greek phrase refers to personal, willful rejection of truth, not ignorance.

"the truth is not in us"

The way to acceptance by a Holy God is not denial, but recognition of our sin and acceptance of His provision in Christ (cf. Rom. 3:21-31). "The truth" can refer to the message about Jesus or the person of Jesus (cf. John 14:6).



1:8,9 "If" These are both THIRD CLASS CONDITIONAL SENTENCES which means potential action.

1:9 "confess"

This is a compound Greek term from "to speak" and "the same." Believers continue to agree with God that they have violated His holiness (cf. Rom. 3:23). It is PRESENT TENSE, which implies ongoing action. Confession implies

a specific naming of sins (1 John 1:9)

a public admitting of sins (cf. Matt. 10:32; James 5:16)

a turning from specific sins (cf. Matt. 3:6; Mark 1:5; Acts 19:18; James 5:16)

1 John uses this term quite often (cf. 1 John 1:9; 4:2,3,15; 2 John 7). Jesus' death is the means of forgiveness, but sinful mankind must respond and continue to respond in faith to be saved (cf. John 1:12; 3:16).

Special Topic: Confession/Profession

"our sins"

Notice the PLURAL. This refers to specific acts of sin.

"He is faithful"

This refers to God the Father (cf. Deut. 7:9; 32:4; Ps. 36:5; 40:10; 89:1,2,5,8; 92:2; 119:90; Isa. 49:7; Rom. 3:3; 1 Cor. 1:9; 10:13; 2 Cor. 1:18; 1 Thess. 5:24; 2 Tim. 2:13). God the Father's unchanging, merciful, faithful character is our surest hope! This phrase accentuates God's faithfulness to His Word (cf. Heb. 10:23;11:11). This may also refer to God's New Covenant promise made in Jer. 31:34, which promised the forgiveness of sins.



"and righteous"

This term is unusual in a context related to a holy God freely pardoning unholy people. However, this is theologically accurate because God takes our sins seriously, yet He has provided the means for our forgiveness in the substitutionary death of Christ (cf. Rom. 3:21-31).



"forgive . . . cleanse"

These are both AORIST ACTIVE SUBJUNCTIVES. These two terms are synonymous in this context; they refer both to the salvation of the lost and to the ongoing cleansing necessary for fellowship with God (i.e., when God forgives, God fogets, cf. Isa. 1:18; 38:17; 43:25; 44:22; Ps. 103:3,11-13; Mic. 7:19). The false teachers who denied the gospel, needed salvation. Believers who continue to commit acts of sin need restoration of fellowship. John seems to address the first group implicitly and the second explicitly.

1:10 "If we say" See note at 1 John 1:6.

"we have not sinned"

This is a PERFECT ACTIVE INDICATIVE which implies that one has never sinned in the past nor in the present. The term "sinned" is SINGULAR and refers to sin in general. The Greek term means "to miss the mark." This means that sin is both the commission and the omission of the things revealed in God's Word. The false teachers claimed salvation was related only to knowledge, not to life.

"we make Him a liar"

The gospel is based on the sinfulness of all mankind (cf. Rom. 3:9-18,23; 5:1; 11:32). Either God (cf. Rom. 3:4) or those who claim sinlessness, is lying.
Utley.

J.

Great post Johann.
Nothing left to say!


Do you live in my time zone?
It's 11 pm right now.

 

[07/07/07]

If you can't tell the difference, then that is the problem.

What kind of sins can one commit and still be considered a "Saint" and not a sinner?

 

[Johann!@#]

Great post Johann.
Nothing left to say!


Do you live in my time zone?
It's 11 pm right now.

Yes!
11.21 PM now.
I am always up early and go to bed "early"

J.

 

[Johann!@#]

What kind of sins can one commit and still be considered a "Saint" and not a sinner?

You need to provide Scripture references re your statement-me- I am a sinner saved by grace/Chen - Chesed.
I don't look for the definition of a saint-plenty examples of saints in the Tanack WITH their faults and missing the mark-and "perfect" means mature-not sinless.
Not being facetious.
Johann.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Oh Hopeful.
John said what I believe.
I don't make up my own theology.

You learned it from somebody, just as I did.

Put a number.
I'll bet both you and I sinned more than once today.
I'm pretty sure.

That would be a bad bet.

Acts of adultery.
Oh, so you think only the BIG sins are sin....!
Maybe this is the problem here.
What about all the "small" sins?
And do you know that to God EVERYTHING not meeting HIS target is a sin?

That is one way to avoid the question.
When does sinning go from "sin" to "continual sin" ?
I would think that would be important to those who worry at all about the answer.

I believe those born again, as Jesus stated in John 3, are on a spiritual journey
and are becoming more and more sanctified.

Verses please.

But NO ONE on this earth goes without sinning...
NO ONE but Jesus and probably His mother, but that's another story.

You say "NO ONE" then list two.
That is so confusing.

And yes, some believe they never sin.
Probably because they don't understand HOW HOLY God is.

Is His seed holy ?
Is the fruit of that seed holy ?
Is any unholy thing "of God" ?
It is written..."We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not." (1 John 5:18)
Is a sinner born of God ?
Not according to John.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Correct-I don't hold to sinless perfection-believers may commit ACTS of sin whereas unbelievers remain in a STATE of never ending sinning.

ָ

If you never quit sinning, aren't you in the STATE of never ending sinning ?

 

[Hopeful 2]

1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jn 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

You must not see that John is using an A, B, A, B, A, B system that juxtaposes those who walk in light-God agaisnt those who walk in darkness-sin.
Verses 6, 8, and 10 apply to those who walk in sin, so of course they can't honestly say they have no sin...or that they have fellowship with God.
Verses 5, 7, and 9 refer to those who walk in God, and they can say they have no sin...and that they have fellowship with God.

"cleanses us from all sin"
This is a PRESENT ACTIVE INDICATIVE. The term "sin" is SINGULAR with no ARTICLE. This implies every kind of sin. Notice this verse is focusing on a one-time cleansing (salvation, 1 John 1:9), but on an ongoing cleansing (the Christian life). Both are part of the Christian experience (cf. John 13:10).

Isn't it surprising to you that John writes..."We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not." (1 John 5:18), later in the same letter ?
It is impossible to account for John's verse and your interpretation with equal regard.

1:8 "If we say that we have no sin"
This is another THIRD CLASS CONDITIONAL SENTENCE. Sin is a spiritual reality in a fallen world, even for believers (cf. Romans 7; Eph. 4:14; 6:10-18). John's Gospel addresses this issue often (cf. John 9:41; 15:22,24; 19:11). This verse rejects all ancient and modern claims that deny individual moral responsibility.

If one cannot say they have no sin, they also can't say they have fellowship with God. (1 John 1:6)
Hardly the condition those that love God enjoy.
Of course, Jesus had already said that sinners hate God. (Matt 6:24)

"we are deceiving ourselves"
This Greek phrase refers to personal, willful rejection of truth, not ignorance.

Would that be the "truth" that Jesus said could free us from committing sin, in John 8:32-34 ?

"the truth is not in us"
The way to acceptance by a Holy God is not denial, but recognition of our sin and acceptance of His provision in Christ (cf. Rom. 3:21-31). "The truth" can refer to the message about Jesus or the person of Jesus (cf. John 14:6).

You are attempting to put sin in Jesus.
Christians are "in Christ".
If there is sin on Christians, then there is sin in Christ.
That idea hold no water.

The gospel is based on the sinfulness of all mankind (cf. Rom. 3:9-18,23; 5:1; 11:32). Either God (cf. Rom. 3:4) or those who claim sinlessness, is lying.
Utley.

Jesus came to free us from sin.
He was successful.
I wish you knew that freedom.

 

[Johann!@#]

Isn't it surprising to you that John writes..."We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not." (1 John 5:18), later in the same letter ?
It is impossible to account for John's verse and your interpretation with equal regard.

Friend-I don't mind you critiquing my post-but don't come up with "You are attempting to put sin in Jesus." That is a false assumption on your part-and you are saying the opposite as to WHAT is posted.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
1Jn 5:18 We know that everyone being regenerated from YAHWEH does not practice sin, but the one having been regenerated from YAHWEH guards himself, and the evil one does not come near him.

sinneth not. i.e. does not practise, or continue in sin. Compare 1Jn_3:6, 1Jn_3:9. Rom_6:1-12.


1Jn_5:18. Our Security through the Guardianship of Christ. οὐχ ἁμαρτάνει, see note on 1Jn_3:6. The child of God may fall into sin, but he does not continue in it; he is not under its dominion. Why? Because, though he has a malignant foe, he has also a vigilant Guardian. ὁ γεννηθεὶς ἐκ τοῦ Θεοῦ, i.e., Christ. Cf. Symb. Nic.: Κύριον Ἰησοῦν Χριστὸν, τὸν Υἱὸν τοῦ Θεοῦ, γεννηθέντα ἐκ τοῦ Πατρὸς. As distinguished from γεγεννημένος the aor. γεννήθεις refers to the “Eternal Generation”. The rendering “he that is begotten of God (the regenerate man) keepeth himself (ἑαυτὸν), qui genitus est ex Deo, servat seipsum (Calv.), is doubly objectionable: (1) It ignores the distinction between perf. and aor.; (2) there is no comfort in the thought that we are in our own keeping; our security is not our grip on Christ but His grip on us. Calvin feels this: “Quod Dei proprium est, ad nos transfert. Nam si quisque nostrum salutis suæ sit custos, miserum erit præsidium”. Vulg. has generatio Dei, perhaps representing a variant ἡ γέννησις τοῦ Θεοῦ. τηρεῖ, see note on 1Jn_2:3. ἅπτεται, stronger than “toucheth,” rather “graspeth,” “layeth hold of”. A reference to Psalms 105(LXX 104):15: μὴ ἅψησθε τῶν χριστῶν μου, Nolite tangere christos meos (Vulg.).
Grk-Ex

Though sin is still found in the life of the believer, who as such is γεγεννημένος ἐκ τοῦ Θεοῦ, yet it is nevertheless foreign to him, opposed to his nature, and in the strength of his faith he is ever becoming more and more free from it.[328]
H. Meyer.

NASB (UPDATED) TEXT: 1 JOHN 5:18-20
18We know that no one who is born of God sins; but He who was born of God keeps him, and the evil one does not touch him. 19We know that we are of God, and that the whole world lies in the power of the evil one. 20And we know that the Son of God has come, and has given us understanding so that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.

5:18 "We know" See notes in second paragraph at 1 John 5:13.

"no one who is born of God sins"

This is a PERFECT PASSIVE PARTICIPLE. This is the black and white assertion of 1 John 3:6 and 9. Eternal life has observable characteristics. The antinomian false teachers' lifestyles reveal their unregenerate hearts (cf. Matthew 7)!

John was addressing two different kinds of false teachers. One who denied any involvement in sin (cf. 1 John 1:8-2:1) and another group that simply made sin irrelevant (cf. 1 John 3:4-10 and here). Sin must be initially confessed and existentially avoided. Sin is the problem, a problem, and continually a problem (cf. 1 John 5:21).

Kinda like what you are doing--

Bruce Metzger, A Textual Commentary of the Greek New Testament (p. 718) asserts that the manuscript variation is based on what the copyist thought the phrase "born of God" referred to.

Jesus ‒ then auton fits best (A*, B*)
believers ‒ then eauton fits best (א, Ac)
The UBS4 gives #1 a "B" rating (almost cetain).

"but He who was born of God keeps him"

The first VERB is an AORIST PASSIVE PARTICIPLE which implies a completed act accomplished by an outside agent (i.e., the Spirit cf. Rom. 8:11). This refers to the Incarnation.

The second VERB is a PRESENT ACTIVE INDICATIVE with "him" (auton). This is literally, "the One who was born of God continues to keep him." This refers to Christ's continual sustaining of the believer.



NASB   "and the evil one does not touch him"
NKJV   "the wicked one does not touch him"
NRSV   "the evil one does not touch them"
TEV   "the Evil One cannot harm them"
NJB   "the Evil One has no hold over him"
REB   "and the evil one cannot touch him"
Peshitta   "and the evil one does not come near him"

This is PRESENT MIDDLE INDICATIVE which means the evil one cannot continue "laying hold of him." The only other use of this term in John's writings is in his Gospel, 20:17. It is obvious from the Bible and experience that Christians are tempted. There have been three major theories about the meaning of this phrase.

believers are free from the condemnation of the evil one based on violation of the law (justification)
Jesus prays for us (cf. 1 John 2:1; Luke 22:32-33)
Satan cannot wrestle our salvation from us (cf. Rom. 8:31-39), though he can thwart God's testimony in our lives and possibly, based on 1 John 5:16-17, take a believer out of this world early!
Utley

https://www.freebiblecommentary.org/mp3/32-16/ijohn/ijohn32k-12.mp3<< Listen to the sermon on this verse-from Utley.

No one that is born of God habitually keeps on practicing sinning-and do read Rom 7.
And NO believer in Christ Jesus is ABOVE hamartia.

J.

 

[Mr. G Lee]

This is an important topic for Christians, as it's crucial to our Salvation. To continue in sin knowingly certainly results in a loss of one's Salvation. We must forsake that sin(s) and do our first works over by being cleansed in the blood of Jesus for the remission of sin. If we cling to that sin(s), we are fallen from grace and are considered backsliders.

I would think seeing the Bible is not designed for unbelievers knowing sin and confessing is not part
never enters thier mind .

the fool has said there is no God in the hearts .The Galatians did a foolish thing they denied Christ in the thinking . .the power of the gospel that saved them calls them back to thier first love hearing God emepowered by God eternal salvation.

His word that teaches us God is gracious. He does not set its approval of those who harden thier hearts, when we sin are confess he forgives

Galatians 3:1-3King James Version O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

 

[Johann!@#]

You say "NO ONE" then list two.
That is so confusing.

1 Kings 8:46

“When they sin against You (for there is no man who does not sin) and You are angry with them and deliver them to an enemy, so that they take them away captive to the land of the enemy, far off or near;

Ecclesiastes 7:20

Indeed, there is not a righteous man on earth who continually does good and who never sins.

Romans 3:10

as it is written,
“There is none righteous, not even one;

If they sin: The second clause of this verse, as it is here translated, renders this supposition entirely nugatory; for if there be no man that sinneth not, it is useless to say, if they sin, but this objection is removed by rendering the original, "If they shall sin against thee (for there is no man that, lo yechetai, may not sin") i.e., there is no man impeccable or infallible; none that is not liable to transgress.
there is no man: 2Ch_6:36; Job_14:4, Job_15:14-16; Psa_19:12, Psa_130:3, Psa_143:2; Pro_20:9; Ecc_7:20; Isa_53:6, Isa_64:6; Rom_3:19; Gal_3:22; Jas_3:2; 1Jn_1:8-10

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
6:12 "Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body"

This is a present active imperative with the negative particle, which usually meant to stop an act already in process. The term "reign" relates to 5:17-21 and 6:23. Paul personifies several theological concepts.

1. death reigned as king (cf. Rom. 5:14,17; 6:23)

2. grace reigned as king (cf. Rom. 5:21)

3. sin reigned as king (cf. Rom. 6:12,14)

The real question is who is reigning in your life? The believer has the power in Christ to choose! The tragedy for the individual, the local church, and the Kingdom of God is when believers choose self and sin, even while claiming grace!

See Special Topic: Reigning in the Kingdom of God at Rom. 5:17,18.

6:13 "do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin" This is a present active imperative with the negative particle which usually meant to stop an act already in process. This shows the potential for continuing sin in the lives of believers (cf. Rom. 7:1ff; 1 John 1:8-2:1). But the necessity of sin has been eliminated in the believer's new relationship with Christ, Rom. 6:1-11.

"as instruments"

This term (hoplon) referred to "a soldier's weapons" (cf, 13:12; John 18:3; 2 Cor. 6:7; 10:4). Our physical body is the battleground for temptation (cf. Rom. 6:12-13; 12:1-2; 1 Cor. 6:20; Phil. 1:20). Our lives publicly display the gospel.

"but present yourselves to God"

This is an aorist active imperative which was a call for a decisive act (cf. Rom. 12:1). Believers do this at salvation by faith, but they must continue to do this throughout their lives.

Notice the parallelism of this verse.

1. same verb and both imperatives

2. battle metaphors

a. weapons of unrighteousness

b. weapons of righteousness

3. believers can present their bodies to sin or themselves to God

Remember, this verse is referring to believers—the choice continues; the battle continues (cf. Rom. 6:12,19; 1 Cor. 6:18-19; Eph. 6:10-18)!

6:14 "For sin shall not be master over you" This is a future active indicative (cf. Ps. 19:13) functioning as an imperative, "sin must not be master over you!" Sin is not master over believers because it is not master over Christ, (cf. Rom. 6:9; John 16:33).
Utley

J.

 

[Johann!@#]

If one cannot say they have no sin, they also can't say they have fellowship with God. (1 John 1:6)

Exegete what you reference-there are many lost souls and I view this Forum as an outreach ministry-not-"What's it in for me"

"God is Light"

There is no ARTICLE. This is emphasizing the revelatory and ethical aspects of God's nature (cf. Ps. 27:1; Isa. 60:20; Micah 7:8; 1 Tim. 6:16; James 1:17). The Gnostic false teachers asserted that light referred to knowledge, but John asserts that it refers also to ethical purity. "Light" and "dark" were common terms (an ethical dualism using these terms is also found in the Dead Sea Scrolls and early Gnosticism). It related to the dualism between good and evil (i.e., John 1:5; 8:12; 12:46) and possibly the Gnostic dualism of spirit versus matter. This is one of John's simple yet profoundly theological assertions about deity. The others are (1) "God is love" (cf. 1 John 4:8,16) and (2) "God is spirit" (cf. John 4:24). God's family, like Jesus (cf. John 8:12; 9:5), should reflect His character (cf. Matt. 5:14). This changed and changing life of love, forgiveness, and purity is one of the evidences of a true conversion.

"in Him there is no darkness at all"

This is a DOUBLE NEGATIVE for emphasis. It is an assertion of the unchanging holy character of God (cf. 1 Tim. 6:16; James 1:17; Ps. 102:27; Mal. 3:6).

Special Topic: Characteristics of Israel's God (NT)

1:6 "If we say"

This is the first of several THIRD CLASS CONDITIONAL SENTENCES which refer to the claims of false teachers (cf. 1 John 1:8,10; 2:4,6,9). These statements are the only way to identify the theological assertions of the false teachers besides the writings of the second and third century Church Fathers. They appear to be early (incipient) Gnostics.

The literary technique of a supposed objector is called diatribe. It was a way of presenting truth in a question/answer format. It can be clearly seen in Malachi (cf. Mal. 1:2,6,7,12; 2:14,17; 3:7,14) and in Romans (cf. Rom. 2:3,17,21-23; 3:1,3,7-8,9,31; 4:1; 6:1; 7:7).

"we have fellowship with Him"

The heretics claimed that fellowship was based on knowledge only. This was an aspect of Greek philosophy from Plato. However, John asserts that Christians must live Christlike lives (cf. 1 John 1:7; Lev. 11:44; 19:2; 20:7; Matt. 5:48; Rom. 8:28-29).

"yet walk in the darkness"

"Walk" is a PRESENT ACTIVE SUBJUNCTIVE. This is a biblical metaphor expressing a moral lifestyle (cf. Eph. 4:1,17; 5:2,15). God is light with no darkness. His children should be like Him (cf. Matt. 5:48; 1 Pet. 1:16).

"we lie and do not practice the truth"

These are both PRESENT TENSE VERBS. John calls several types of religious people liars (cf. 1 John 2:4,22; 4:20; Isa. 29:13). Lifestyle actions truly reveal the heart (cf. Matthew 7).

Special Topic: "Truth" (the concept) in John's Writings

1:7 "but if we walk in the Light"

This is another PRESENT TENSE which emphasizes continuing action. "Walk" is a biblical metaphor for the Christian life (i.e., Eph. 4:1,17; 5:2,15).

Notice how often "walk" and PRESENT TENSE VERBS are related to the Christian life. Truth is something we live, not just something we know! Truth is a key concept in John.

Special Topic: "True" (the term) in John's Writings

"as He Himself is in the light"

Believers are to think and live like Jesus. We are to reflect God's character to a lost world. Salvation is the restoration of the image of God in mankind (i.e., Gen. 1:26,27), damaged in the fall of Genesis 3.

Special Topic: The Fall

"we have fellowship with one another"

The term "fellowship" is the Greek term koinōnia, which means a joint participation between two persons. Christianity is based on believers sharing Jesus' life. If we accept His life in forgiveness, we must accept His ministry of love (cf. 1 John 3:16). Knowing God is not abstract truth, but initiates fellowship and godly living. The goal of Christianity is not only heaven when we die, but Christlikeness now. The Gnostic heretics had a tendency toward exclusivism. However, when one is rightly related with God, he will be rightly related to his fellow Christian. Lack of love toward other Christians is a glaring sign of a problem with our relationship with God (cf. 1 John 4:20-21 and also Matt. 5:7; 6:14-15; 18:21-35)



Special Topic: Koinōnia

Special Topic: Anointing in the Bible

"the blood of Jesus"

This refers to the sacrificial death of Christ (cf. Isa. 52:13-53:12; Mark 10:45; 2 Cor. 5:21). It is very similar to 1 John 2:2, "the atoning sacrifice (propitiation) for our sins." This is the thrust of John the Baptist's "behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world" (cf. John 1:29). The innocent died on behalf of the guilty!

The early Gnostics denied Jesus' true humanity. John's use of "blood" reinforces Jesus' true humanity.

There is a Greek manuscript variable related to the name.

Jesus ‒ NASB, NRSV, NJB, REB, NET
Christ ‒ MSS א, B, C
Jesus Christ ‒ NKJV
This is one example used by Bart D. Ehrman, The Orthodox Corruption of Scripture, p. 153, to show how ancient scribes tried to make the text more specific to refute the current heretics. Option #3 was an attempt to mediate the MSS variation.

"cleanses us from all sin"

This is a PRESENT ACTIVE INDICATIVE. The term "sin" is SINGULAR with no ARTICLE. This implies every kind of sin. Notice this verse is focusing on a one-time cleansing (salvation, 1 John 1:9), but on an ongoing cleansing (the Christian life). Both are part of the Christian experience (cf. John 13:10).

You don't seem to understand what Utley said here-and my question to you- a sinless believer-what is the doctrine of dikaiosune/Hagiasmos? Progressive-static-no more room for growth?

J.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Friend-I don't mind you critiquing my post-but don't come up with "You are attempting to put sin in Jesus." That is a false assumption on your part-and you are saying the opposite as to WHAT is posted.

It is exactly what your doctrine is doing.
Are Christians "in Christ" ?
Yes, so if they sin, they are putting sin in Christ too.
One sin or a hundred, sinners are not in Christ.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
1Jn 5:18 We know that everyone being regenerated from YAHWEH does not practice sin, but the one having been regenerated from YAHWEH guards himself, and the evil one does not come near him.

Your "practice" is inserted by the devilishly minded.
If "the evil one does not come near him", he won't commit any sin.

sinneth not. i.e. does not practise, or continue in sin. Compare 1Jn_3:6, 1Jn_3:9. Rom_6:1-12.

Your false teaching accommodates sin.
It is a teaching not of God.

1Jn_5:18. Our Security through the Guardianship of Christ. οὐχ ἁμαρτάνει, see note on 1Jn_3:6. The child of God may fall into sin, but he does not continue in it; he is not under its dominion. Why? Because, though he has a malignant foe, he has also a vigilant Guardian. ὁ γεννηθεὶς ἐκ τοῦ Θεοῦ, i.e., Christ. Cf. Symb. Nic.: Κύριον Ἰησοῦν Χριστὸν, τὸν Υἱὸν τοῦ Θεοῦ, γεννηθέντα ἐκ τοῦ Πατρὸς. As distinguished from γεγεννημένος the aor. γεννήθεις refers to the “Eternal Generation”. The rendering “he that is begotten of God (the regenerate man) keepeth himself (ἑαυτὸν), qui genitus est ex Deo, servat seipsum (Calv.), is doubly objectionable: (1) It ignores the distinction between perf. and aor.; (2) there is no comfort in the thought that we are in our own keeping; our security is not our grip on Christ but His grip on us. Calvin feels this: “Quod Dei proprium est, ad nos transfert. Nam si quisque nostrum salutis suæ sit custos, miserum erit præsidium”. Vulg. has generatio Dei, perhaps representing a variant ἡ γέννησις τοῦ Θεοῦ. τηρεῖ, see note on 1Jn_2:3. ἅπτεται, stronger than “toucheth,” rather “graspeth,” “layeth hold of”. A reference to Psalms 105(LXX 104):15: μὴ ἅψησθε τῶν χριστῶν μου, Nolite tangere christos meos (Vulg.).
Grk-Ex

Though sin is still found in the life of the believer, who as such is γεγεννημένος ἐκ τοῦ Θεοῦ, yet it is nevertheless foreign to him, opposed to his nature, and in the strength of his faith he is ever becoming more and more free from it.[328]
H. Meyer.

NASB (UPDATED) TEXT: 1 JOHN 5:18-20
18We know that no one who is born of God sins; but He who was born of God keeps him, and the evil one does not touch him. 19We know that we are of God, and that the whole world lies in the power of the evil one. 20And we know that the Son of God has come, and has given us understanding so that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.

5:18 "We know" See notes in second paragraph at 1 John 5:13.

"no one who is born of God sins"

This is a PERFECT PASSIVE PARTICIPLE. This is the black and white assertion of 1 John 3:6 and 9. Eternal life has observable characteristics. The antinomian false teachers' lifestyles reveal their unregenerate hearts (cf. Matthew 7)!

John was addressing two different kinds of false teachers. One who denied any involvement in sin (cf. 1 John 1:8-2:1) and another group that simply made sin irrelevant (cf. 1 John 3:4-10 and here). Sin must be initially confessed and existentially avoided. Sin is the problem, a problem, and continually a problem (cf. 1 John 5:21).

Kinda like what you are doing--

Bruce Metzger, A Textual Commentary of the Greek New Testament (p. 718) asserts that the manuscript variation is based on what the copyist thought the phrase "born of God" referred to.

Jesus ‒ then auton fits best (A*, B*)
believers ‒ then eauton fits best (א, Ac)
The UBS4 gives #1 a "B" rating (almost cetain).

"but He who was born of God keeps him"

The first VERB is an AORIST PASSIVE PARTICIPLE which implies a completed act accomplished by an outside agent (i.e., the Spirit cf. Rom. 8:11). This refers to the Incarnation.

The second VERB is a PRESENT ACTIVE INDICATIVE with "him" (auton). This is literally, "the One who was born of God continues to keep him." This refers to Christ's continual sustaining of the believer.



NASB   "and the evil one does not touch him"
NKJV   "the wicked one does not touch him"
NRSV   "the evil one does not touch them"
TEV   "the Evil One cannot harm them"
NJB   "the Evil One has no hold over him"
REB   "and the evil one cannot touch him"
Peshitta   "and the evil one does not come near him"

This is PRESENT MIDDLE INDICATIVE which means the evil one cannot continue "laying hold of him." The only other use of this term in John's writings is in his Gospel, 20:17. It is obvious from the Bible and experience that Christians are tempted. There have been three major theories about the meaning of this phrase.

believers are free from the condemnation of the evil one based on violation of the law (justification)
Jesus prays for us (cf. 1 John 2:1; Luke 22:32-33)
Satan cannot wrestle our salvation from us (cf. Rom. 8:31-39), though he can thwart God's testimony in our lives and possibly, based on 1 John 5:16-17, take a believer out of this world early!
Utley

https://www.freebiblecommentary.org/mp3/32-16/ijohn/ijohn32k-12.mp3<< Listen to the sermon on this verse-from Utley.

No one that is born of God habitually keeps on practicing sinning-and do read Rom 7.
And NO believer in Christ Jesus is ABOVE hamartia.

J.

Your accommodations for sin are a waste of breath.
The Godly are aware of every attempt by the devil to get the holy to rescind their repentance from sin and back into unholiness.
There is no sin in Christ, no matter which language you use.

 

[Hopeful 2]

1 Kings 8:46

“When they sin against You (for there is no man who does not sin) and You are angry with them and deliver them to an enemy, so that they take them away captive to the land of the enemy, far off or near;

Ecclesiastes 7:20

Indeed, there is not a righteous man on earth who continually does good and who never sins.

Romans 3:10

as it is written,
“There is none righteous, not even one;

If they sin: The second clause of this verse, as it is here translated, renders this supposition entirely nugatory; for if there be no man that sinneth not, it is useless to say, if they sin, but this objection is removed by rendering the original, "If they shall sin against thee (for there is no man that, lo yechetai, may not sin") i.e., there is no man impeccable or infallible; none that is not liable to transgress.
there is no man: 2Ch_6:36; Job_14:4, Job_15:14-16; Psa_19:12, Psa_130:3, Psa_143:2; Pro_20:9; Ecc_7:20; Isa_53:6, Isa_64:6; Rom_3:19; Gal_3:22; Jas_3:2; 1Jn_1:8-10

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
6:12 "Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body"

This is a present active imperative with the negative particle, which usually meant to stop an act already in process. The term "reign" relates to 5:17-21 and 6:23. Paul personifies several theological concepts.

1. death reigned as king (cf. Rom. 5:14,17; 6:23)

2. grace reigned as king (cf. Rom. 5:21)

3. sin reigned as king (cf. Rom. 6:12,14)

The real question is who is reigning in your life? The believer has the power in Christ to choose! The tragedy for the individual, the local church, and the Kingdom of God is when believers choose self and sin, even while claiming grace!

See Special Topic: Reigning in the Kingdom of God at Rom. 5:17,18.

6:13 "do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin" This is a present active imperative with the negative particle which usually meant to stop an act already in process. This shows the potential for continuing sin in the lives of believers (cf. Rom. 7:1ff; 1 John 1:8-2:1). But the necessity of sin has been eliminated in the believer's new relationship with Christ, Rom. 6:1-11.

"as instruments"

This term (hoplon) referred to "a soldier's weapons" (cf, 13:12; John 18:3; 2 Cor. 6:7; 10:4). Our physical body is the battleground for temptation (cf. Rom. 6:12-13; 12:1-2; 1 Cor. 6:20; Phil. 1:20). Our lives publicly display the gospel.

"but present yourselves to God"

This is an aorist active imperative which was a call for a decisive act (cf. Rom. 12:1). Believers do this at salvation by faith, but they must continue to do this throughout their lives.

Notice the parallelism of this verse.

1. same verb and both imperatives

2. battle metaphors

a. weapons of unrighteousness

b. weapons of righteousness

3. believers can present their bodies to sin or themselves to God

Remember, this verse is referring to believers—the choice continues; the battle continues (cf. Rom. 6:12,19; 1 Cor. 6:18-19; Eph. 6:10-18)!

6:14 "For sin shall not be master over you" This is a future active indicative (cf. Ps. 19:13) functioning as an imperative, "sin must not be master over you!" Sin is not master over believers because it is not master over Christ, (cf. Rom. 6:9; John 16:33).
Utley

J.

Quit defending sin, unrighteousness, and the lack of repentance from sin.
It is written..."Be ye holy for I am holy." (Lev 11:45, 1 Peter 1:16)

 

[Johann!@#]

Your accommodations for sin are a waste of breath.
The Godly are aware of every attempt by the devil to get the holy to rescind their repentance from sin and back into unholiness.
There is no sin in Christ, no matter which language you use.

Go in peace-others might learn-hopefully.

 

[Johann!@#]

Quit defending sin, unrighteousness, and the lack of repentance from sin.
It is written..."Be ye holy for I am holy." (Lev 11:45, 1 Peter 1:16)

"be holy yourselves also" This is an aorist passive (deponent) imperative. Believers are called to holiness. God's will has always been that His children reflect His character (cf. Titus 2:14). The goal of Christianity is not only heaven when we die, but Christlikeness now (cf. Rom. 8:29-30; 2 Cor. 3:18; 7:1; Gal. 4:19; Eph. 1:4; 2:10; 4:13; 1 Thess. 3:13; 4:3,7; 5:23). Jesus' task was not only remission of sin, but the restoration of the image of God in fallen mankind. We must always be suspicious of an assurance of salvation that lacks Christlikeness! The gospel is (1) a person to welcome; (2) a truth about that person to believe; and (3) a life emulating that person to live (cf. Eph. 4:1; 5:1-2,15; 1 John 1:7; 2:4-6). Remember the shocking words of Jesus in Matt. 5:20 and 48! Always be careful of "what's-in-it-for-me" Christianity. We are saved to serve. We are called to holiness in no uncertain terms. God have mercy on a western church trapped by (1) prosperity; (2) materialism; and (3) health/wealth preaching!

Soecial Topic: NT Holiness/Sanctification

"in all your behavior" Notice the emphasis on "all." The challenge is not selected righteousness, but pervasive holiness (cf. 1 John 3:3).

1:16 "because it is written, 'You shall be holy, for I am holy'" "Written" is a perfect passive indicative, which is an idiom for Scripture used so often by Jesus, but only here in Peter. This is a quote from Lev. 11:44-45; 19:2; 20:7,26. This is not a new requirement, but a repeated requirement (cf. Matt. 5:48).

Holiness in the OT sense was not sinlessness, but a conformity to the covenant requirements of God (i.e., Exod. 19:6; 22:31; Deut. 14:2,21; 26:19). The NT also as covenant requirements which issue in Christlikeness (cf. Rom. 8:28-29; 2 Cor. 3:18; 7:1; Gal. 4:19; Eph. 1:4; 4:13; 1 Thess. 3:13; 4:3,7; 5:23).
Utley.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Go in peace-others might learn-hopefully.

Plenty of folks out there are trying to remain sinners while espousing Christ.
But "God heareth not sinners", (John 9:31), so all they will end up with is condemnation.

Consider this...What is the one thing all the false churches have in common ?
They all still sin.

 

[Hopeful 2]

"be holy yourselves also" This is an aorist passive (deponent) imperative. Believers are called to holiness. God's will has always been that His children reflect His character (cf. Titus 2:14). The goal of Christianity is not only heaven when we die, but Christlikeness now (cf. Rom. 8:29-30; 2 Cor. 3:18; 7:1; Gal. 4:19; Eph. 1:4; 2:10; 4:13; 1 Thess. 3:13; 4:3,7; 5:23). Jesus' task was not only remission of sin, but the restoration of the image of God in fallen mankind. We must always be suspicious of an assurance of salvation that lacks Christlikeness! The gospel is (1) a person to welcome; (2) a truth about that person to believe; and (3) a life emulating that person to live (cf. Eph. 4:1; 5:1-2,15; 1 John 1:7; 2:4-6). Remember the shocking words of Jesus in Matt. 5:20 and 48! Always be careful of "what's-in-it-for-me" Christianity. We are saved to serve. We are called to holiness in no uncertain terms. God have mercy on a western church trapped by (1) prosperity; (2) materialism; and (3) health/wealth preaching!

Soecial Topic: NT Holiness/Sanctification

"in all your behavior" Notice the emphasis on "all." The challenge is not selected righteousness, but pervasive holiness (cf. 1 John 3:3).

1:16 "because it is written, 'You shall be holy, for I am holy'" "Written" is a perfect passive indicative, which is an idiom for Scripture used so often by Jesus, but only here in Peter. This is a quote from Lev. 11:44-45; 19:2; 20:7,26. This is not a new requirement, but a repeated requirement (cf. Matt. 5:48).

Holiness in the OT sense was not sinlessness, but a conformity to the covenant requirements of God (i.e., Exod. 19:6; 22:31; Deut. 14:2,21; 26:19). The NT also as covenant requirements which issue in Christlikeness (cf. Rom. 8:28-29; 2 Cor. 3:18; 7:1; Gal. 4:19; Eph. 1:4; 4:13; 1 Thess. 3:13; 4:3,7; 5:23).
Utley.

Are you gonna let the Greeks deprive you of God's holiness ?
Aorist tense ?
There is no sin in Christ.
Sinners are not in Christ.
Sinners have not repented of sin.
The Holy Ghost will not abode in a polluted temple.
Sinners walk in darkness and have no fellowship with God. (1 John 1:6)

As I just heard recently..."We are called to holiness in no uncertain terms."
Believe it.

 

[Johann!@#]

Are you gonna let the Greeks deprive you of God's holiness ?
Aorist tense ?
There is no sin in Christ.
Sinners are not in Christ.
Sinners have not repented of sin.
The Holy Ghost will not abode in a polluted temple.
Sinners walk in darkness and have no fellowship with God. (1 John 1:6)

The problem here is-as I see it-you and I need to step out of the way and allow the Scriptures to "speak"

There are more than 45,000 denominations globally. Followers of Jesus span the globe. But the global body of more than 2 billion Christians is separated into thousands of denominations. Pentecostal, Presbyterian, Lutheran, Baptist, Apostolic, Methodist — the list goes on.

Yes?

https://i.pinimg.com/564x/90/36/14/903614d70ce6addcf055415c7a312ffa.jpg

 

[Hopeful 2]

The problem here is-as I see it-you and I need to step out of the way and allow the Scriptures to "speak"

There are more than 45,000 denominations globally. Followers of Jesus span the globe. But the global body of more than 2 billion Christians is separated into thousands of denominations. Pentecostal, Presbyterian, Lutheran, Baptist, Apostolic, Methodist — the list goes on.

Yes?

https://i.pinimg.com/564x/90/36/14/903614d70ce6addcf055415c7a312ffa.jpg

Everyone on your list accommodates sin.
No accommodation for sin exists with God.

 

[citrus]

The goal of the Christian life isn't " be perfect." The only way you are righteous is because of God (what Jesus did for us). The goal is to: glorify God, seek and ABIDE, acknowledge and enjoy his presence. Everything else falls into place.