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Christ Jesus came into the world to save ALL sinners

Scripture tells us,if we consider it contextually,that Jesus came to save God's Elect. Those God calls to himself. And those, as Paul tells us, cannot understand this unless Holy Spirit (God) enters into the natural man/woman and changes their consciousness so to understand those things of God that are otherwise considered foolishness by them.

And those ones,Gods Elect, were chosen by God before the creation,foundation, of the world. Their names written in the Lamb's Book of Eternal Life before the creation of the world.

Jesus told his Disciples,they did not choose him. Jesus chose them.

We choose day to day what we want to do in life. God tells us he sets our steps.

God has dominion over his creation. He is Sovereign.
We need to be saved because God made it so.
We are only chosen by God to be saved because God chose whom to save before this world was made.
 
SolaScriptura said:
the Bible states that there are only TWO conditions for all sinners to get saved, REPENTANCE of sins and FAITH in the Lord Jesus Christ. Period!
Click to expand...
Show where anyone said ONLY A and B are required for salvation.
Your citing must contain the word ONLY.
SolaScriptura said:
water baptism can never save anyone.
Click to expand...
Tell me then, how is the old man destroyed ?
And how is the circumcision done without hands accomplished ?
SolaScriptura said:
You mention about devils "believing", but they NEVER "REPENT"!
Click to expand...
The never get baptized into Christ either.
SolaScriptura said:
So your own reasoning is very much moot
Click to expand...
How is Gal 5:24 accomplished ?
"And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts."
 
Free said:
Demons believe what? And what is the nature of their belief?
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What do those who say "belief" is all that is necessary for salvation, believe ?
It is probably the same thing as the devils.
Jesus was the Son of God, did many miracles on earth, He was killed for our sins, was raised the third say, and ascended into heaven.
 
Hopeful 2 said:
What do those who say "belief" is all that is necessary for salvation, believe ?
It is probably the same thing as the devils.
Jesus was the Son of God, did many miracles on earth, He was killed for our sins, was raised the third say, and ascended into heaven.
Click to expand...
Are you able to directly and concisely answer my questions or not?
 
Little Owl said:
Scripture tells us,if we consider it contextually,that Jesus came to save God's Elect. Those God calls to himself. And those, as Paul tells us, cannot understand this unless Holy Spirit (God) enters into the natural man/woman and changes their consciousness so to understand those things of God that are otherwise considered foolishness by them.

And those ones,Gods Elect, were chosen by God before the creation,foundation, of the world. Their names written in the Lamb's Book of Eternal Life before the creation of the world.

Jesus told his Disciples,they did not choose him. Jesus chose them.

We choose day to day what we want to do in life. God tells us he sets our steps.

God has dominion over his creation. He is Sovereign.
We need to be saved because God made it so.
We are only chosen by God to be saved because God chose whom to save before this world was made.
Click to expand...

Scripture doesn't say what you do but man's theology does!
 
Hopeful 2 said:
Show where anyone said ONLY A and B are required for salvation.
Your citing must contain the word ONLY.

Tell me then, how is the old man destroyed ?
And how is the circumcision done without hands accomplished ?

The never get baptized into Christ either.

How is Gal 5:24 accomplished ?
"And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts."
Click to expand...

read Mark 1:15, and you will see the ONLY TWO conditions for salvation

REPENTANCE from sins; and FAITH in the Good News of the Lord Jesus Christ. Period!
 
SolaScriptura said:
Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners
...
It is abundantly clear to those who are more interested in what the Bible ACTUALLY TEACHES, and not some human “theology”, that the Death of Jesus Christ on the Cross, is NOT for only “the elect”, but “the entire human race”. In Luke 22, where Jesus is speaking of the Lord’s Supper, He very clearly included Judas in the words, “This cup that is poured out for YOU is the New Covenant in My Blood” (verse 20). Because in the next verse, Jesus goes on to say, “But behold, the hand of him who betrays me is with me on the table”, which is no other than the betrayer, Judas. If Jesus did not Die for Judas, and the billions like him who sadly end up in eternal punishment, then surely He would have instituted the Lord’s Supper after Judas had left the room to betray Him. So that the words in verse 20, would only apply to the 11, all of whom are in heaven! Commenting on Jesus’ words in Mark 14:24, part of the Lord’s Supper account, John Calvin writes “Which is shed for many. By the word many he means not a part of the world only, but the whole human race” (John Calvin). Even to John Calvin, the term MANY in this context, is not “part of the world”, but “THE WHOLE HUMAN RACE”. And yet there are those who claim to follow the teachings of John Calvin, who still believe that he taught any “limit” to the Death of Jesus Christ. In fact, by Calvin’s own words on Mark 14:24, it is also clear that he includes Judas in the Death of Jesus Christ!

Not only does the Teachings in the Bible destroy this human deception of Jesus’ Death being only for “the elect”. But, we also have the father of “Calvinism”, John Calvin himself, very clearly state, that Jesus Died for THE WHOLE HUMAN RACE, including Judas!
Click to expand...
Evidently no Calvinists appeared to refute your misunderstanding his words. And supposing Judas would be saved (Lk. 22:22).

Calvin believed Christ's sacrifice is sufficient to save all, but only "many" would be saved by it, whom he identified as "the Elect".

I'm not a Calvinist, don't believe salvation was for the elect only:

And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. (1 Jn. 2:2 NKJ)

In Rev. 3:5 Jesus can't be talking to the Elect chosen before the foundation of the world because their names cannot be blotted out of the book of Life. Therefore He is speaking to "non-elect" who can be saved if they endure to to the end:

"He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels. (Rev. 3:5 NKJ)


Universalists go overboard when they claim Judas, Satan and demons will be be saved. That is clearly untrue. Recall the Son of Perdition "Beast" is a name also given to Judas (John 17:12; 2 Thess. 1:3) and clearly neither he, nor the devil are saved:

The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. (Rev. 20:10 NKJ)

It is correct Christ's sacrfice is enough for the entire Kosmos (all born since the foundation of the world) be saved, but only those to believe in Christ will be saved. That applies to the Elect and Non-Elect equally, God is not Partial.

We know all things work together for the good of all who love God, elect and non-elect and all of them will be saved "through faith":

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, (Eph. 2:8 NKJ)

And we know not one wicked human or angel will be saved. God will not allow the wicked go unpunished:

Be sure of this: The wicked will not go unpunished, but those who are righteous will go free. (Prov. 11:21 NIV)

Universalism is just as wrong as limited atonement, but to make it worse for your OP, you utterly failed to get Calvin to agree with you. Taking him out of context to propose a pretext. Shoddy.
 
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Alfred Persson said:
Evidently no Calvinists appeared to refute your misunderstanding his words. And supposing Judas would be saved (Lk. 22:22).

Calvin believed Christ's sacrifice is sufficient to save all, but only "many" would be saved by it, whom he identified as "the Elect".

I'm not a Calvinist, don't believe salvation was for the elect only:

And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. (1 Jn. 2:2 NKJ)

Here Jesus can't be talking to the Elect chosen before the foundation of the world because their names cannot be blotted out of the book of Life. Therefore He is speaking to "non-elect" who can be saved if they endure to to the end:

"He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels. (Rev. 3:5 NKJ)


Universalists go overboard when they claim Judas, Satan and demons will be be saved. That is clearly untrue. Recall the Son of Perdition "Beast" is a name also given to Judas (John 17:12; 2 Thess. 1:3) and clearly neither he, nor the devil are saved:

The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. (Rev. 20:10 NKJ)

It is correct Christ's sacrfice is enough for the entire Kosmos (all born since the foundation of the world) be saved, but only those to believe in Christ will be saved. That applies to the Elect and Non-Elect equally, God is not Partial.

We know all things work together for the good of all who love God, elect and non-elect and all of them will be saved "through faith":

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, (Eph. 2:8 NKJ)

And we know not one wicked human or angel will be saved. God will not allow the wicked go unpunished:

Be sure of this: The wicked will not go unpunished, but those who are righteous will go free. (Prov. 11:21 NIV)

Universalism is just as wrong a limited atonement, but to make it worse for your OP, you utterly failed to get Calvin to agree with you. Taking him out of context to propose a pretext. Shoddy.
Click to expand...
Christ will save all who submit to Him.
 
Hopeful 2 said:
Christ will save all who submit to Him.
Click to expand...
Yes, but it doesn't tell the whole story. It lacks eternal perspective, limited to the time after the fall.

Your construct doesn't include what existed in the Mind of God, before the foundation of the world. How God selected only "the elect", without thereby condemning the "non-elect." "Submission" to God results from "loving God", and it was "love" that caused some to be elected, and not others:

28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose.
29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. (Rom. 8:28-29 NKJ)

In God's Omniscient knowledge He foreknew everyone who would be born. "Those who 'awoke' loving God returning His love for them", He selected to be conformed to the image of His Son. Those who 'awoke' not responding to God's love with love, He did nothing. They would prove themselves in time, whether they would be saved or not along with the elect who cannot lose their salvation. God would never permit one of those He foreknew loved Him before the foundation of the world, be lost. If He couldn't prevent that, He wouldn't have created the world.

It must be assumed, as free will exists, when these "awoke" in God's Omniscience, the not only had full intellectual capacity to know who God, and His righteous ways, they knew His love for them was genuine. So we "the elect" loved Him back.

But, as "the elect" only exist in the mind of God, not those who in Adam are born fallen, God ordained all thinigs will work for their good, to bring the Elect home. As for the "non-elect" if they endure to the end, will be saved also. God is not partial, all the righteous who believe in Christ will be saved. Not one of them lost to the Devil.

Therefore, none of this contadicts ALL are saved by Christ. There is no other name whereby humans can be saved. Salvation is exclusively in Christ. All are saved by grace, through faith they must give in finite time.
 
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Alfred Persson said:
Evidently no Calvinists appeared to refute your misunderstanding his words. And supposing Judas would be saved (Lk. 22:22).

Calvin believed Christ's sacrifice is sufficient to save all, but only "many" would be saved by it, whom he identified as "the Elect".

I'm not a Calvinist, don't believe salvation was for the elect only:

And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. (1 Jn. 2:2 NKJ)

In Rev. 3:5 Jesus can't be talking to the Elect chosen before the foundation of the world because their names cannot be blotted out of the book of Life. Therefore He is speaking to "non-elect" who can be saved if they endure to to the end:

"He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels. (Rev. 3:5 NKJ)


Universalists go overboard when they claim Judas, Satan and demons will be be saved. That is clearly untrue. Recall the Son of Perdition "Beast" is a name also given to Judas (John 17:12; 2 Thess. 1:3) and clearly neither he, nor the devil are saved:

The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. (Rev. 20:10 NKJ)

It is correct Christ's sacrfice is enough for the entire Kosmos (all born since the foundation of the world) be saved, but only those to believe in Christ will be saved. That applies to the Elect and Non-Elect equally, God is not Partial.

We know all things work together for the good of all who love God, elect and non-elect and all of them will be saved "through faith":

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, (Eph. 2:8 NKJ)

And we know not one wicked human or angel will be saved. God will not allow the wicked go unpunished:

Be sure of this: The wicked will not go unpunished, but those who are righteous will go free. (Prov. 11:21 NIV)

Universalism is just as wrong as limited atonement, but to make it worse for your OP, you utterly failed to get Calvin to agree with you. Taking him out of context to propose a pretext. Shoddy.
Click to expand...

Exactly WHERE did I say that Judas would be saved?

If you care to READ what I have written rather than ASSUME, you just might understand!
 
SolaScriptura said:
Exactly WHERE did I say that Judas would be saved?

If you care to READ what I have written rather than ASSUME, you just might understand!
Click to expand...
It is abundantly clear to those who are more interested in what the Bible ACTUALLY TEACHES, and not some human “theology”, that the Death of Jesus Christ on the Cross, is NOT for only “the elect”, but “the entire human race”. In Luke 22, where Jesus is speaking of the Lord’s Supper, He very clearly included Judas in the words, “This cup that is poured out for YOU is the New Covenant in My Blood” (verse 20).

You implied Judas was saved by Christ. Thanks for the correction. Try being more clear.

And I did understand your theory and fundamentally agree with it, but it lacks a dimension that includes "all world (Kosmos), that is...the realm of the dead. All the righteous dead will be saved by Christ also, not just those lucky enough to die professing the gospel of Christ. Even the Dead will hear the gospel of Christ so the the righteous among them can be saved:

For this reason the gospel was preached also to those who are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit. (1 Pet. 4:6 NKJ)
 
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Alfred Persson said:
Yes, but it doesn't tell the whole story. It lacks eternal perspective, limited to the time after the fall.

Your construct doesn't include what existed in the Mind of God, before the foundation of the world. How God selected only "the elect", without thereby condemning the "non-elect." "Submission" to God results from "loving God", and it was "love" that caused some to be elected, and not others:

28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose.
29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. (Rom. 8:28-29 NKJ)

In God's Omniscient knowledge He foreknew everyone who would be born. "Those who 'awoke' loving God returning His love for them", He selected to be conformed to the image of His Son. Those who 'awoke' not responding to God's love with love, He did nothing. They would prove themselves in time, whether they would be saved or not along with the elect who cannot lose their salvation. God would never permit one of those He foreknew loved Him before the foundation of the world, be lost. If He couldn't prevent that, He wouldn't have created the world.

It must be assumed, as free will exists, when these "awoke" in God's Omniscience, the not only had full intellectual capacity to know who God, and His righteous ways, they knew His love for them was genuine. So we "the elect" loved Him back.

But, as "the elect" only exist in the mind of God, not those who in Adam are born fallen, God ordained all thinigs will work for their good, to bring the Elect home. As for the "non-elect" if they endure to the end, will be saved also. God is not partial, all the righteous who believe in Christ will be saved. Not one of them lost to the Devil.

Therefore, none of this contadicts ALL are saved by Christ. There is no other name whereby humans can be saved. Salvation is exclusively in Christ. All are saved by grace, through faith they must give in finite time.
Click to expand...
You are adding to what is actually written.
Your additions are unbiblical.
 
Hopeful 2 said:
You are adding to what is actually written.
Your additions are unbiblical.
Click to expand...
Evidently, the apostle Peter disagrees with you:

For this reason the gospel was preached also to those who are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit. (1 Pet. 4:6 NKJ)
 
SolaScriptura said:
no, you don't understand what I have written!
Click to expand...
Who isn't understanding who? I thanked you for your correction.

I also said I "fundamentally" agreed with you.

But your construct still fails to save all in the world who believe. You leave out the dead. Peter did not:

For this reason the gospel was preached also to those who are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit. (1 Pet. 4:6 NKJ)
 
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