Christian Calvanism

[jasoncran]

Friend, I know what Calvin teaches. I know the NT. I know these are not the same. Calvin preached 2 sacraments. That is incorrect. The Church teaches 7. That is all I need to know. In Erie PA Scott H.

hitch correct me if i'm wrong.

calvin taught this that god isnt responsible for mens action only that he choose not to intervene with some lives but other he does.

 

[Hitch]

Friend, I know what Calvin teaches. I know the NT. I know these are not the same. Calvin preached 2 sacraments. That is incorrect. The Church teaches 7. That is all I need to know. In Erie PA Scott H.

I take it Scott you are refusing to asnwer yes or no with respect to have you read Calvin's Institutes of the Christian Religion. Is that correct?

 

[Hitch]

hitch correct me if i'm wrong.

calvin taught this that god isnt responsible for mens action only that he choose not to intervene with some lives but other he does.

I dont know, Im sure there are better informed Calvinist here that can answer directly.

 

[jasoncran]

I dont know, Im sure there are better informed Calvinist here that can answer directly.

then i await mondar's answer. i know the charge that god is responsible for evil per reform theological thought is false.

 

[Scotth1960]

hitch correct me if i'm wrong.

calvin taught this that god isnt responsible for mens action only that he choose not to intervene with some lives but other he does.

Dear jasoncran, God intervenes in every man's life, it is just that some men choose not to believe Him and to respond to His grace and His intervention. The Gospel is preached unto the whole world, or will be, as Christians go forth and spread the Good News. Men are then without excuse when they reject the mercy offered to them in Christ Jesus. It is not "God's fault"; there is no fault in God. Calvinism however teaches that God is a cause of all things, and if this is so, He is also then the cause of sin. This Scripture speaks against. I have read "What Love Is This" by Dave Hunt and "The Other Side of Calvinism" by Lawrence M. Vance. Vance especially quotes extensively from Calvin and other Reformed theologians. It devastates the reader. No Christian could in good conscience believe in Calvinism. It confuses God with the devil. In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington

 

[Scotth1960]

I take it Scott you are refusing to asnwer yes or no with respect to have you read Calvin's Institutes of the Christian Religion. Is that correct?

No. Did I read every word? No. I don't have too. One error is enough to reject the rest of it. IF we are looking for a systematic theology Calvin's work is not it. I am not sure whether or not I agree with the idea of systematic theology anyway. All we need to know about doctrine is summed up nicely in the Creed of 381 AD. Without the Filioque. In Erie PA Scott H.
PS I did read a summary of the work by Calvin at one point, and I was not impressed. Calvin is cold and dry.

 

[jasoncran]

Dear jasoncran, God intervenes in every man's life, it is just that some men choose not to believe Him and to respond to His grace and His intervention. The Gospel is preached unto the whole world, or will be, as Christians go forth and spread the Good News. Men are then without excuse when they reject the mercy offered to them in Christ Jesus. It is not "God's fault"; there is no fault in God. Calvinism however teaches that God is a cause of all things, and if this is so, He is also then the cause of sin. This Scripture speaks against. I have read "What Love Is This" by Dave Hunt and "The Other Side of Calvinism" by Lawrence M. Vance. Vance especially quotes extensively from Calvin and other Reformed theologians. It devastates the reader. No Christian could in good conscience believe in Calvinism. It confuses God with the devil. In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington

God didnt say this?

i will have mercy upon whom i will have mercy
and i will have compassion upon whom i will have compassion?

and what of this
whom he predestined to salvation he foreknow and ordained them to good works

and btw i dont believe all of calvinism

but i will share this, God found me and i wasnt looking for me, in due time he saved me.

when i went to a small hick pentacostal church I felt the presence of the lord and wanted to go, a few weeks after that service i heard in my head this"When will you jason serve me?"
i responded i cant lord as i'm a sinner his response"serve me still"

for one week he did that and i surrendered one day. could i have resisted that possibly but i honestly wanted God then and knew then he was the only one who could fix this broken man.

and he did.

 

[Hitch]

No. Did I read every word? No. I don't have too. One error is enough to reject the rest of it. IF we are looking for a systematic theology Calvin's work is not it. I am not sure whether or not I agree with the idea of systematic theology anyway. All we need to know about doctrine is summed up nicely in the Creed of 381 AD. Without the Filioque. In Erie PA Scott H.
PS I did read a summary of the work by Calvin at one point, and I was not impressed. Calvin is cold and dry.

You do have to if you want any credibility as a critic.

How about you go the library, check out Institutes of the Christian Religion, and peruse the entire work without consulting your antiCalvin pals or even letting them know what you're doing. Then you can say anything you like backed up by a clear affirmative 'Yes I have read Calvin and quiet recently too'


I triple dog dare ya!

 

[Scotth1960]

I will bemusedly describe myself as a zero-point Calvinist - I believe that all 5 doctrinal elements of the TULIP acronym are false - at least the versions that have been presented to me by some on this forum. So if any of you Calvinists out there think I am misrepresenting Calvinism, please set me straight.

Now to clarify, here is the message that I get most often re the content of the 5 doctrines:

Total Depravity: Humans have no goodness in them whatsoever before becoming members of the kingdom of God.

Uconditional Election: The members of the "elect" (see next point) are selected by God without no account at all taken of their personal characteristics.

Limited Atonement: Eons ago, God selected a specific set of people to be granted entry into the Kingdom. Those not in this set cannot possibly be saved.

Irresistable Grace: The members of the elect cannot resist entry into the Kingdom. Even if they try to fight God, they will ultimately be saved.

Perserverence of the Saints: Once a member of the elect is "in the Kingdom", they cannot fall away and be lost.

I think all these doctrines are false. As stated, though, these do not necessarily reflect "true" Calvinism.

Dear friends, For a good historic refutation of Calvinism, see:

Schaeffer, Frank. (2002). Dancing Alone: The Quest For Orthodox Faith in the Age of False Religion. Regina Orthodox Press, P.O. Box 5288, Salisbury, MA 01952 1-800-636-2470 FAX: 978-462-5079 www.reginoarthodoxpress.com


Together with "The Other Side of Calvinism" by Lawrence M. Vance, Vance Publications, Florida, should be enough to show Calvinism is not Biblical.
In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington

 

[Scotth1960]

You do have to if you want any credibility as a critic.

How about you go the library, check out Institutes of the Christian Religion, and peruse the entire work without consulting your antiCalvin pals or even letting them know what you're doing. Then you can say anything you like backed up by a clear affirmative 'Yes I have read Calvin and quiet recently too'


I triple dog dare ya!

Dear Hitch, How is this for a dare. Go and find for yourself what Calvin wrote about Servetus, and why Calvin had him murdered. Should we be having such men as our Bible teachers? Men who burn people at the stake? How does Calvin defend this move? What about the Golden Rule? Would Calvin have wanted Servetus to have burned Calvin at the stake?
Scott

 

[Hitch]

Dear Hitch, How is this for a dare. Go and find for yourself what Calvin wrote about Servetus, and why Calvin had him murdered. Should we be having such men as our Bible teachers? Men who burn people at the stake? How does Calvin defend this move? What about the Golden Rule? Would Calvin have wanted Servetus to have burned Calvin at the stake?
Scott

You re on .

Let me know when you start, I'll start the same week .

 

[Scotth1960]

You re on .

Let me know when you start, I'll start the same week .

Dear Hitch, Okay, calm down please. Have you personally read everything that John Calvin ever wrote? Why rely on just one man to teach us the NT? Shouldn't we be reading the Church Fathers instead of reading the Protestant Reformers? Take care.
Scott R. Harrington
PS My friend, I believe the main thing we need to read to understand the OT and NT is the Ancient Christian Commentary on Scripture published by InterVarsity Press in Downers Grove, IL. Take care.

 

[reba]

2Sa 11:14 And it came to pass in the morning, that David wrote a letter to Joab, and sent it by the hand of Uriah.
2Sa 11:15 And he wrote in the letter, saying, Set ye Uriah in the forefront of the hottest battle, and retire ye from him, that he may be smitten, and die.
2Sa 11:16 And it came to pass, when Joab observed the city, that he assigned Uriah unto a place where he knew that valiant men were.
2Sa 11:17 And the men of the city went out, and fought with Joab: and there fell some of the people of the servants of David; and Uriah the Hittite died also.


Act 8:1 And Saul was consenting unto his death. And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles.

 

[Scotth1960]

2Sa 11:14 And it came to pass in the morning, that David wrote a letter to Joab, and sent it by the hand of Uriah.
2Sa 11:15 And he wrote in the letter, saying, Set ye Uriah in the forefront of the hottest battle, and retire ye from him, that he may be smitten, and die.
2Sa 11:16 And it came to pass, when Joab observed the city, that he assigned Uriah unto a place where he knew that valiant men were.
2Sa 11:17 And the men of the city went out, and fought with Joab: and there fell some of the people of the servants of David; and Uriah the Hittite died also.


Act 8:1 And Saul was consenting unto his death. And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles.

Reba bless you. Saul was forgiven by Christ and became St. Paul. I gather John Calvin could be forgiven if he repented. Did Calvin ever repent, is the question. where is Calvin's written apology for having been consenting to Servetus's death?
In Erie Scott R. Harrington

 

[Hitch]

Dear Hitch, Okay, calm down please.

Can it , dont be disgusting

Have you personally read everything that John Calvin ever wrote? Why rely on just one man to teach us the NT? Shouldn't we be reading the Church Fathers instead of reading the Protestant Reformers? Take care.
Scott R. Harrington
PS My friend, I believe the main thing we need to read to understand the OT and NT is the Ancient Christian Commentary on Scripture published by InterVarsity Press in Downers Grove, IL. Take care.

Im not your friend and you are a presumptious mouth poorly attached to an ill informed brain .

Ever time you come to condemn Calvin ,by your own addmision you speak from ignorance. I have given you a postive reason and form to remedy that. You ran away crying.

So put up or shut up;

Originally Posted by Hitch
You re on .

Let me know when you start, I'll start the same week .

I dont give a dog hair wrt what you think or say wrt Calvin, But when you condemn you pretend to know, and that does not jibe with your own addmision of ignornce. I have no problem with critics of Calvin, except that without exception the loudest I've come across in 10 or 12 years of net forums will, when pressed, admit complete or near complete personal ignorance of the object of ther vitriol.

 

[reba]

Reba bless you. Saul was forgiven by Christ and became St. Paul. I gather John Calvin could be forgiven if he repented. Did Calvin ever repent, is the question. where is Calvin's written apology for having been consenting to Servetus's death?
In Erie Scott R. Harrington

Do you sir have a written apology for your sins?

 

[Scotth1960]

Can it , dont be disgusting Im not your friend and you are a presumptious mouth poorly attached to an ill informed brain .

Ever time you come to condemn Calvin ,by your own addmision you speak from ignorance. I have given you a postive reason and form to remedy that. You ran away crying.

I dont give a dog hair wrt what you think or say wrt Calvin, But when you condemn you pretend to know, and that does not jibe with your own addmision of ignornce. I have no problem with critics of Calvin, except that without exception the loudest I've come across in 10 or 12 years of net forums will, when pressed, admit complete or near complete personal ignorance of the object of ther vitriol.

Calvinists are mean and engage in personal attacks. I don't do that. I haven't burned anyone at the stake. Why support Calvin for decency's sake? You falsely accuse me of venom, when the venom is not in a person who wonders where Christ commands anyone to burn others. As for Calvin's theology, it is based on a misreading of Augustine of Hippo. I believe Norman L. Geisler has shown this well in his book "Chosen But Free".

:nod

 

[Scotth1960]

Do you sir have a written apology for your sins?

Dear Reba. Yes.
Scott

 

[reba]

Dear Reba. Yes.
Scott

Ya' going to post it?

 

[Hitch]

Calvinists are mean and engage in personal attacks. I don't do that. I haven't burned anyone at the stake. Why support Calvin for decency's sake? You falsely accuse me of venom, when the venom is not in a person who wonders where Christ commands anyone to burn others. As for Calvin's theology, it is based on a misreading of Augustine of Hippo.

Get off you dont have any idea what Calvin wrote quite pretending .

I believe Norman L. Geisler has shown this well in his book "Chosen But Free".

:nod

Scott let me know when you're man enough to fulfill your own challenge, untill then bug off.