Christians and politics

[jasonc]

I fit neither libertarian fully, consertive. it depends on the issue.

 

[evenifigoalone]

"Conservative", like many words in the Englush language, has a few different meanings.
There's "resistant to change".
There's a (loose and hard to define) theological definition.
And then there's the political definition. Actually, there seems to be different types of political conservative, like not all are necessarily neo-con. Also may have different meanings in different countries. The word "liberal" in countries other than the US usually means libertarian, or so I've read.

 

[jasonc]

liberal in Europe would be our democrats. the problem I have with libertarianism is that if took that locally, often we would just kowtow to big business as they have the most money and influence on building. what I mean is that while growth happens any town, county needs to have a vision. what we think this town should be. libertarianism has no answer for that.

 

[Deborah13]

liberal in Europe would be our democrats. the problem I have with libertarianism is that if took that locally, often we would just kowtow to big business as they have the most money and influence on building. what I mean is that while growth happens any town, county needs to have a vision. what we think this town should be. libertarianism has no answer for that.

I don't understand what you are saying.
Libertarians want government to be brought close to the people who live in each state, county, and city/town/municipality.
They want the people to have the control of the taxes they pay and the laws that are made. Not feds telling people who live in the city and people who live in the country to live with the same laws, same tax spending, etc. Let the people who live there make the decisions. I would truly love to see that happen then we would see what works and what doesn't, wouldn't we?

 

[jasonc]

I don't understand what you are saying.
Libertarians want government to be brought close to the people who live in each state, county, and city/town/municipality.
They want the people to have the control of the taxes they pay and the laws that are made. Not feds telling people who live in the city and people who live in the country to live with the same laws, same tax spending, etc. Let the people who live there make the decisions. I would truly love to see that happen then we would see what works and what doesn't, wouldn't we?

I have never seen them agree with these:
a big employer whom could bring jobs and doesn't ask for help just not be taxed to death is refused to build because the county says no based on the people whom don't want this county to grow. my county is generally anti-business. if the libertarian had that way. a town could vote to level their own historic buildings just because of neutrality. I know there has to be planning my entire city/county is where its its at good and bad, because of it but looking back, it was good in a lot of ways. the wealthy bought a lot here and did so with theirs but also became politicians. they saw things and said we need to do this now, sure there was some bad things as it went along. the weird things ie each town had its own dump, and school board. no hospital until the mid 30s and that was started by a nurse.

libertarians are against regional planning whereby since the 70's or earlier counties with similar populous teamed up and formed a legal and non binding planning group that reviewed federal money and decided on the behalf of the counties they represented. this can go bad or good. good in the case of the florida railroad idea, bad with 7/50. homes/ communites have been planned for years. I love to look back at my towns old maps from the 20s and its updates and some of the things that are here were proposed then and built decades later. it would be contradictory to say im against central planning by the government on the federal scale and then say im for it on the local scale. rather there has to be some of it. in that the locals who came to form a town, and want it to remain a town can have say or a vision.

here down load it. those names of business. some of them are still here and last names. most of them I know, some I didn't. some of the locations are gone. that is so old it predates the us highway road system. I will have to look up what exactly was Dixie hwy then as that from the topos is always us1. the old signs I remember as a kid were labeled Dixie hwy/us1
http://www.irclibrary.org/genealogy/1927vbdirectory.pdf

vero Beach, the county seat of Indian River County is the jewel city in
the sub-tropical setting of the lower East Coast of Florida. Located on the
main Dixie Highway and Florida East Coast Railway, 228 miles south of
Jacksonville and 145 miles north or Miami, this beautiful city catches the eye
of every tourist and leaves a favorable impression.
Cutting a silvery path across the eastern section of the city is the Indian
River which gives the county its name and forms the label of quality ror the
fruit and vegetables raised in the vicinity. At the front door of the city is
the broad beach and Atlantic Ocean, always the supreme attraction tor touu-
tsts, together with such other recreational features as are afforded by two
golf courses, tennis courts, gun-club, and boating and fishing facilities.
The hack door of the city opens upon the rich agricultural lands of the
Indian River Drainage district, a reclamation project that has made available
5u,OOO acres of Florida's best soil. Here- are grown the luscious citrus fruits
which find favored markets throughout the north and all kinds of vegetables,
particularly snap beans, tomatoes, potatoes, eggplant, peppers and cabbage.
Small fruits. such as strawberries and blackberries are cultivated to a considerable extent, while attention is also given to raising of flowers and bulbs
and the husbandry of bees. Prosperous dairies may be found, where all year
forage reduces operating costs and where nearby markets supply a profitable
outlet for the products,
Vero Beach grows too rapidly to give statistical facts in a publication of
this kind, and its beauty speaks for itself to any visitor. It should be sufficient
to say that this city otters every desired feature for permanent residence. winter sojourn Or casual visitation and presents opportunities for supremely
profitable and safe investments in many lines. Detailed information
is always available at the Chamber of Commerce.

that is generally how it has been since I was a kid. it has changed in that citrus isn't a strong. some of those videos you love is of this town. when this was made vero was real small. vero has fought growth. it will not allow high rises. the height limit is 13 stories and that wont be changing.

 

[th1b.taylor]

I think a conservative christian is someone that tries to live their life for Jesus as best as possible.
It has nothing to do with politics.
American conservatism has taken on a meaning all of its' own.
It generally values order and security by a strong police force and a strong military.
These issues cannot be backed up in the New Testament.

AW,
The New Testament is in the Bible it, however, is "not" the Bible. It has been my expressed view for some time now that the Bible is made up of the Books Jesus taught out of. In the Christian version of the Bible, that is the first thirty-nine books known as the Old Testament. If we examine the New Testament carefully we see that it is the only God spoken Life Application Commentary ever written or inspired by God Himself, Jesus.

Now, there are two scriptures that cannot be ignored on any point in the Bible. They are located, one in the New Testament and the other at the end of the Old Testament. In John 1:1-3 we see that Jesus is the God of the Old testament because He is the God of creation. So the New Covenant and the latter day New Testament Christians argue (stupid thing to do) that God changed. But it is imperative that we recall that God has no part with sin and a lie is a sin worthy of death, so, the Mal. 3:6a is the truth and God said He never changes.

Therefore one errs if he or she reads only the commentary and never the subject of the commentary to gain Godly discernment because the subject of the matter need not be in the text of the commentary.

As for this matter of politics, I'm sorry, but you need a towel after you get out of the shower. King David was a man after god's own heart. God did not tell him to resign his position but rather he was anointed, as a youth, to be the political leader of the nation God wanted to bless the Gentiles through.

And that brings us to the military, that includes the cops, God never told His people to sit down and to suffer what ever the enemy decided to do to them. We do see that God reduced the size of the army so that people would be certain that He had blessed the army and had used them to do His will.

Things to ponder and may god bless you with all of His knowledge.

 

[Deborah13]

I have never seen them agree with these:
a big employer whom could bring jobs and doesn't ask for help just not be taxed to death is refused to build because the county says no based on the people whom don't want this county to grow. my county is generally anti-business. if the libertarian had that way. a town could vote to level their own historic buildings just because of neutrality. I know there has to be planning my entire city/county is where its its at good and bad, because of it but looking back, it was good in a lot of ways. the wealthy bought a lot here and did so with theirs but also became politicians. they saw things and said we need to do this now, sure there was some bad things as it went along. the weird things ie each town had its own dump, and school board. no hospital until the mid 30s and that was started by a nurse.

libertarians are against regional planning whereby since the 70's or earlier counties with similar populous teamed up and formed a legal and non binding planning group that reviewed federal money and decided on the behalf of the counties they represented. this can go bad or good. good in the case of the florida railroad idea, bad with 7/50. homes/ communites have been planned for years. I love to look back at my towns old maps from the 20s and its updates and some of the things that are here were proposed then and built decades later. it would be contradictory to say im against central planning by the government on the federal scale and then say im for it on the local scale. rather there has to be some of it. in that the locals who came to form a town, and want it to remain a town can have say or a vision.

here down load it. those names of business. some of them are still here and last names. most of them I know, some I didn't. some of the locations are gone. that is so old it predates the us highway road system. I will have to look up what exactly was Dixie hwy then as that from the topos is always us1. the old signs I remember as a kid were labeled Dixie hwy/us1
http://www.irclibrary.org/genealogy/1927vbdirectory.pdf



that is generally how it has been since I was a kid. it has changed in that citrus isn't a strong. some of those videos you love is of this town. when this was made vero was real small. vero has fought growth. it will not allow high rises. the height limit is 13 stories and that wont be changing.

Thanks for the link, I'm sure it will be interesting even though I don't live there.

I'm not sure where you got the info. that libertarians are against regional planning, etc. I have never heard or read that.
?

 

[jasonc]

Thanks for the link, I'm sure it will be interesting even though I don't live there.

I'm not sure where you got the info. that libertarians are against regional planning, etc. I have never heard or read that.
?

they are. look up smart growth, that is what regional planning is. its a form of central planning. if a libertarian wants to argue against federal highways or grants for such roads good luck that is a function of the federal government.

I would have read up on more on roads and such like. and also right ways and eminent domain. I don't get it its ok if the county robs me of my property rights and states but not the federal government? here we have case of that happening with the railroad.

 

[Northman]

As a subject in a non-democratic nation, politics are generally opinions and not much else. Things happen and its like "oh, thats what they are doing now eh?".

That being said, my sword will end up on the rebel pile should there be anyone trying to institute what they feel the laws of God are on the populace. Not counting when the King returns with the army of course, cause then it will be done properly. Only God gets to play God. Couple thousand years of history should tell us that when men try it then it doesnt work even remotely proper.

 

[Mike S]

I think religion doesn't always determine one's political view. For many, it's the other way around; their political views shape their religion.

When you read the Bible and hear Christ's message, do you think it's a message of personal responsibility, or communal responsibility? That worldview shapes both your understanding of politics and understanding of Christianity.

When you think about moral questions, do you believe there are moral absolutes, or does the morality depend on situational ethics?

These are the types of interacting beliefs that involve in our politics and religion. Which one shapes the other.

My firm belief is that if you are absolutely committed to Christ's message, and let that be a light to the rest of the world, then you will be a conservative.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

AW,
The New Testament is in the Bible it, however, is "not" the Bible. It has been my expressed view for some time now that the Bible is made up of the Books Jesus taught out of. In the Christian version of the Bible, that is the first thirty-nine books known as the Old Testament. If we examine the New Testament carefully we see that it is the only God spoken Life Application Commentary ever written or inspired by God Himself, Jesus.

Now, there are two scriptures that cannot be ignored on any point in the Bible. They are located, one in the New Testament and the other at the end of the Old Testament. In John 1:1-3 we see that Jesus is the God of the Old testament because He is the God of creation. So the New Covenant and the latter day New Testament Christians argue (stupid thing to do) that God changed. But it is imperative that we recall that God has no part with sin and a lie is a sin worthy of death, so, the Mal. 3:6a is the truth and God said He never changes.

Therefore one errs if he or she reads only the commentary and never the subject of the commentary to gain Godly discernment because the subject of the matter need not be in the text of the commentary.

As for this matter of politics, I'm sorry, but you need a towel after you get out of the shower. King David was a man after god's own heart. God did not tell him to resign his position but rather he was anointed, as a youth, to be the political leader of the nation God wanted to bless the Gentiles through.

And that brings us to the military, that includes the cops, God never told His people to sit down and to suffer what ever the enemy decided to do to them. We do see that God reduced the size of the army so that people would be certain that He had blessed the army and had used them to do His will.

Things to ponder and may god bless you with all of His knowledge.

Hi Bill, I don't want to argue the point with you.
Instead, I will just express my feelings.
I am a disabled Viet Nam vet.
I know what it is to kill or be killed.
But I was an unsaved 20 year old kid then.
If I was the person then that I am today, I would never have been there.
In my heart, I know Jesus doesn't want me to be involved in politics.
It is of the world.
He does not want me to support military aggression, he never taught that.
What I see and feel is that my home is of another world.
It is the Kingdom of God.
I am a soldier of this kingdom, and my weapons are prayer and the Word of God.
The Holy Spirit is my leader.
I am an ambassador for Christ.
I represent him wherever I go.
As an ambassador, I do not get involved in the affairs of the country I am only visiting.

I pay my taxes, obey the laws, and mind my own business.
That's New Testament teaching.

 

[th1b.taylor]

Hi Bill, I don't want to argue the point with you.
Instead, I will just express my feelings.
I am a disabled Viet Nam vet.
I know what it is to kill or be killed.
But I was an unsaved 20 year old kid then.
If I was the person then that I am today, I would never have been there.
In my heart, I know Jesus doesn't want me to be involved in politics.
It is of the world.
He does not want me to support military aggression, he never taught that.
What I see and feel is that my home is of another world.
It is the Kingdom of God.
I am a soldier of this kingdom, and my weapons are prayer and the Word of God.
The Holy Spirit is my leader.
I am an ambassador for Christ.
I represent him wherever I go.
As an ambassador, I do not get involved in the affairs of the country I am only visiting.

I pay my taxes, obey the laws, and mind my own business.
That's New Testament teaching.

I do not intend to argue the point either AW. But Iron sharpens iron and in this case it cannot happen except we discuss the issue. If you and I are obedient happen except we discuss in accordance with the Great Commission. (Matt. 20:18;20)

The sad matter is, you have ignore the points I expressed about this matter and about the New and Old Testaments. If you believe you are right in this matter and that I am wrong, it is your duty to correct me.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

AW,
The New Testament is in the Bible it, however, is "not" the Bible. It has been my expressed view for some time now that the Bible is made up of the Books Jesus taught out of. In the Christian version of the Bible, that is the first thirty-nine books known as the Old Testament. If we examine the New Testament carefully we see that it is the only God spoken Life Application Commentary ever written or inspired by God Himself, Jesus.

Now, there are two scriptures that cannot be ignored on any point in the Bible. They are located, one in the New Testament and the other at the end of the Old Testament. In John 1:1-3 we see that Jesus is the God of the Old testament because He is the God of creation. So the New Covenant and the latter day New Testament Christians argue (stupid thing to do) that God changed. But it is imperative that we recall that God has no part with sin and a lie is a sin worthy of death, so, the Mal. 3:6a is the truth and God said He never changes.

Therefore one errs if he or she reads only the commentary and never the subject of the commentary to gain Godly discernment because the subject of the matter need not be in the text of the commentary.

As for this matter of politics, I'm sorry, but you need a towel after you get out of the shower. King David was a man after god's own heart. God did not tell him to resign his position but rather he was anointed, as a youth, to be the political leader of the nation God wanted to bless the Gentiles through.

And that brings us to the military, that includes the cops, God never told His people to sit down and to suffer what ever the enemy decided to do to them. We do see that God reduced the size of the army so that people would be certain that He had blessed the army and had used them to do His will.

Things to ponder and may god bless you with all of His knowledge.

I do not intend to argue the point either AW. But Iron sharpens iron and in this case it cannot happen except we discuss the issue. If you and I are obedient happen except we discuss in accordance with the Great Commission. (Matt. 20:18;20)

The sad matter is, you have ignore the points I expressed about this matter and about the New and Old Testaments. If you believe you are right in this matter and that I am wrong, it is your duty to correct me.

Hebrews 7:12:
"where there is a change in the priesthood, there is a change in the law".
The Hebrew Holy Scriptures teach us Gentiles many things, but Jesus taught us even better.
God made the Jews his nation, but Jesus never made the Gentiles a Christian nation.

The Apostle Paul received a revelation that the others did not receive, it's known as the Gospel of grace.
You will not find it as part of Jewish Law.

I really don't know where to go with this right now, because I question how much you understand.
Please let me know.

 

[jasonc]

Hebrews 7:12:
"where there is a change in the priesthood, there is a change in the law".
The Hebrew Holy Scriptures teach us Gentiles many things, but Jesus taught us even better.
God made the Jews his nation, but Jesus never made the Gentiles a Christian nation.

The Apostle Paul received a revelation that the others did not receive, it's known as the Gospel of grace.
You will not find it as part of Jewish Law.

I really don't know where to go with this right now, because I question how much you understand.
Please let me know.

ok what exactly is a pecular people in the new testament? in Hebrew and latin as jews borrowed the term gentile from the word in latin for nation/people. goy would be the word best used.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

ok what exactly is a pecular people in the new testament? in Hebrew and latin as jews borrowed the term gentile from the word in latin for nation/people. goy would be the word best used.

I don't understand what you are asking.

 

[jasonc]

I don't understand what you are asking.

nation doesn't mean in all contexts with borders. did the jewish nation cease to exist after ad 70? NO!

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

nation doesn't mean in all contexts with borders. did the jewish nation cease to exist after ad 70? NO!

Of course it did.
You need to prove otherwise.

 

[jasonc]

Of course it did.
You need to prove otherwise.

I didn't say that Christ didn't want a Christian nation. the church is very much a nation. it has a king, it has a government. laws and a land , heaven and new earth being that.

 

[Knotical]

allenwynne, then how do you explain the great commission? Jesus was not telling the disciples to go convert just jews, but to go out into the world and convert people of all nations, which they had no idea the size of the task when it was given.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

allenwynne, then how do you explain the great commission? Jesus was not telling the disciples to go convert just jews, but to go out into the world and convert people of all nations, which they had no idea the size of the task when it was given.

I'm not sure how to answer your question, but I'll try.
Acts 15 is the Council of Jerusalem.
Peter tells how the Gentiles received the Holy Spirit.
Paul and Barnabas tell of all the wonders being done through them with the Gentiles.
Peter declares that by God's grace, the Gentiles are being saved.
Thus, they were to be included in their group.

There's a lot more to be said about this but elsewhere (I forget off hand), Paul tells us that this Gospel of grace was not given to him by man, but by the Holy Spirit.

Galatians 1:12