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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Death is come up into our windows!
- Thread starter whirlwind
- Start date
Drew
Member
- Jan 24, 2005
- 14,249
- 81
Getting back to the heart of things:
1. It is self-evident that one way to read the text at issue is as a statement of judgement against Israel. I suspect no one would dispute this.
2. It seems that the real question is whether there is a "second-meaning" over and above the specificity of the judgement about Israel;
3. What specific evidence is there for this? I suggest that an argument along the lines "it could be read such and such a way" is not a very good argument. Consider the cases in the Old Testament where God orders the annihilation of an entire people. One could read such instructions as having a "hidden" second meaning - that Christians shoud annihilate, say, the French. Any second meaning is possible, but one really needs to go further than mere possibilities to make the case for a second meaning. So what evidence is there to see this text from Jeremoiah as being anything beyond a judgement against Israel. The "we are Israel" argument does not work, since one could that same line of think to say that we Christians, in our role as Israel, should build the ark of the covenant. The "we are Israel" argument is way too broad.
1. It is self-evident that one way to read the text at issue is as a statement of judgement against Israel. I suspect no one would dispute this.
2. It seems that the real question is whether there is a "second-meaning" over and above the specificity of the judgement about Israel;
3. What specific evidence is there for this? I suggest that an argument along the lines "it could be read such and such a way" is not a very good argument. Consider the cases in the Old Testament where God orders the annihilation of an entire people. One could read such instructions as having a "hidden" second meaning - that Christians shoud annihilate, say, the French. Any second meaning is possible, but one really needs to go further than mere possibilities to make the case for a second meaning. So what evidence is there to see this text from Jeremoiah as being anything beyond a judgement against Israel. The "we are Israel" argument does not work, since one could that same line of think to say that we Christians, in our role as Israel, should build the ark of the covenant. The "we are Israel" argument is way too broad.
When reading Rev we find out the the word "death" refers to satan......
SO the reader should feel somewhat obligated to find every passage in which "death" is mentioned and replace it with satan........
Will this work everytime ???? Of course not......
But many times you will find that there is a opening of knowledge when you do find a passage in which "death" should be rendered as satan.....
I believe the verse WW posted should be seen as satan/lies and propaganda coming into our lives homes roofs windows and wherever else........
SO the reader should feel somewhat obligated to find every passage in which "death" is mentioned and replace it with satan........
Will this work everytime ???? Of course not......
But many times you will find that there is a opening of knowledge when you do find a passage in which "death" should be rendered as satan.....
I believe the verse WW posted should be seen as satan/lies and propaganda coming into our lives homes roofs windows and wherever else........
Free said:
O I get it,,,,,
Its just the personification of death sitting on a horse...
hell is following the personification of death.....
So there is nothing to worry about
unsupported???????????
Revelation 6:8
And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death,
Now why in the world would I listen to you saying this is just a personification of death????
God is telling us the rider of this horses name is death,,,are you going to try and change that????
What being does death follow ?????????
- Apr 2, 2003
- 22,735
- 6,075
[quote="(THE)]Now why in the world would I listen to you saying this is just a personification of death????[/quote]
Do you believe that Hades is a place? How is it that a place is following Death on a horse?
2 And I looked, and behold, a white horse!
4 And out came another horse, bright red.
8 And I looked, and behold, a pale horse! And its rider's name was Death, and Hades followed him. And they were given authority over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword and with famine and with pestilence and by wild beasts of the earth.
Are you even sure these are horses?
Anyways, suffice it to say that Death is not Satan; that is no where to be found in the text. Death in Jer 9 is just that, death.
Do you believe that Hades is a place? How is it that a place is following Death on a horse?
How did you get that from what I wrote?(THE) said:
2 And I looked, and behold, a white horse!
4 And out came another horse, bright red.
8 And I looked, and behold, a pale horse! And its rider's name was Death, and Hades followed him. And they were given authority over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword and with famine and with pestilence and by wild beasts of the earth.
Are you even sure these are horses?
So now, after having said that Death is Satan, you seem to be arguing that Death follows Satan. Does Satan follow Satan? Or did you have another being in mind that Death follows?(THE) said:
Anyways, suffice it to say that Death is not Satan; that is no where to be found in the text. Death in Jer 9 is just that, death.
Paul said that he was lifted up to the third heaven and saw things/heard things that it not possible to speak or write.
He saw and heard things otherwise that he was given to witness by speaking and writing.
The truth of God is one stream that he has broken into four partial streams, that is why we know in part and we prophesy in part.
There is a place in the work of God's grace for manifold gifts. Let us not forbid the manifestation of the Spirit in the distribution of the gifts of God, as the Spirit wills. We, as the members of the body of Jesus our Lord, are not in control of the operations of the Comforter.
Let us each be faithful with that measure of grace that is given to us and not strive with our brother concerning his gift. Even as our Lord Jesus spoke to Peter on the seashore when Peter asked concerning John, who was coming behind. We are not given to have dominion over our brother. We are given to bow down to our brother 7 times, as Jacob bowed down to Esau as they met near the brook, Jabbok. Still, Jacob/now an overcomer/Israel, knew that his group could not travel with Esau's group. This is for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world has come.
Later, John wrote concerning the young men overcoming the wicked one. This overcoming the wicked one/the angel prepares us to bow down to our estranged brothers/sisters, while giving us practical wisdom that our calling is not of the same work as our now united brother.
So, for those who respect the truth that God "calls", be at peace with each other.
Your older brother in Christ Jesus,
Joe
He saw and heard things otherwise that he was given to witness by speaking and writing.
The truth of God is one stream that he has broken into four partial streams, that is why we know in part and we prophesy in part.
There is a place in the work of God's grace for manifold gifts. Let us not forbid the manifestation of the Spirit in the distribution of the gifts of God, as the Spirit wills. We, as the members of the body of Jesus our Lord, are not in control of the operations of the Comforter.
Let us each be faithful with that measure of grace that is given to us and not strive with our brother concerning his gift. Even as our Lord Jesus spoke to Peter on the seashore when Peter asked concerning John, who was coming behind. We are not given to have dominion over our brother. We are given to bow down to our brother 7 times, as Jacob bowed down to Esau as they met near the brook, Jabbok. Still, Jacob/now an overcomer/Israel, knew that his group could not travel with Esau's group. This is for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world has come.
Later, John wrote concerning the young men overcoming the wicked one. This overcoming the wicked one/the angel prepares us to bow down to our estranged brothers/sisters, while giving us practical wisdom that our calling is not of the same work as our now united brother.
So, for those who respect the truth that God "calls", be at peace with each other.
Your older brother in Christ Jesus,
Joe
Do you believe that Hades is a place? How is it that a place is following Death on a horse?Free said:
[quote="(THE)":30vn3hl3]God is telling us the rider of this horses name is death,,,are you going to try and change that????[/quote]
How did you get that from what I wrote?
2 And I looked, and behold, a white horse!
4 And out came another horse, bright red.
8 And I looked, and behold, a pale horse! And its rider's name was Death, and Hades followed him. And they were given authority over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword and with famine and with pestilence and by wild beasts of the earth.
Are you even sure these are horses?
So now, after having said that Death is Satan, you seem to be arguing that Death follows Satan. Does Satan follow Satan? Or did you have another being in mind that Death follows?(THE) said:
Anyways, suffice it to say that Death is not Satan; that is no where to be found in the text. Death in Jer 9 is just that, death.[/quote:30vn3hl3]
1) Of course they are not literal horses,,,would you like a lesson on horses of the bible??????????
2) Yes death follows satan,,,if you follow satan he will lead you to your ultimate death (blotted out)
and since death follows satan,,death has become another name for satan.....Just like "tree of life",,or life giver is another name for Christ because he brings life....seriously,,,I know children that understand this....
But how about answering my one simple question....
Who is the "HE" on the horse??????????????????
- Thread starter
- #90
Drew said:
But Drew...we are Israel. We as believers are Israel. The warnings are for us. He was sent to the lost sheep of the House of Israel and that is us. We are either of that family through lineage or through adoption by belief. Either way...we ARE ISRAEL. Isn't that wonderful!
- Apr 2, 2003
- 22,735
- 6,075
I answered your question before it was even asked and my answer has not changed--the "rider" of the "horse" is the personification of death. You have already addressed my answer so why are you asking me to answer it again?(THE) said:
Now, how is it that you don't believe the horses are literal but you believe that there is a literal rider? How does a literal being ride a non-literal horse?
Who do you say the "HE" on the horse is? The Bible says Death, not Satan, so you can't answer Satan.
- Thread starter
- #92
Joe67 said:
I wonder Joe if the "overcoming the wicked one" is in literally laying down one's life for his "estranged brothers and sisters?" I believe the "young men" are among the witnesses that will be killed. As Christ is The Man Child the young men are the men children of end times that follow His example.
Your old-er sister in Christ....
Not sure how that fits into the conversation. Free makes a valid point. If Scripture wanted to identify the rider "death" with Satan, then it would have. There's a common problem in a lot of modern-day hermeneutics and that is that people make assumptions instead of allowing Scripture to speak. People say that the beast is the anti-christ when there's NOTHING in Scripture that allows for such an interpretation. People want to see a pre-trib rapture when there's NOTHING in Scripture that allows it.whirlwind said:Free said:
"My name is legion."
Editing in...my name isn't, his is.
Read Scripture for what it says, not what you want it to say.
And somehow the Spirit isn't leading the people that I happen to quote...whirlwind said:Into "my finite little brain?" Try into the finite little brains of many that allow His Spirit to lead.[/b]
Yeah, we are His children. And I already told you that my view was not affected one way or another by his post...so does that now make me wrong just because a non-Christian agreed w/ me?
- Thread starter
- #97
toddm said:Not sure how that fits into the conversation. Free makes a valid point. If Scripture wanted to identify the rider "death" with Satan, then it would have. There's a common problem in a lot of modern-day hermeneutics and that is that people make assumptions instead of allowing Scripture to speak. People say that the beast is the anti-christ when there's NOTHING in Scripture that allows for such an interpretation. People want to see a pre-trib rapture when there's NOTHING in Scripture that allows it.whirlwind said:"My name is legion."
Editing in...my name isn't, his is.
Read Scripture for what it says, not what you want it to say.
I don't know if you are simply having a bad day, want to be argumentative or...what.
The point is Satan has many names...his name is legion. You are missing a big part of the sheer magnitude and beauty of His Word if you just see the letter, if you just see each verse as being separate from the others.- 2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
It is not what "I want it to say" but what He tells us.
Satan, death, dragon, leviathan, serpent, anti-christ, deceiver, legion, accuser, devil, beast, rock, morning star, and on and on and on.
