Defending the existence of God

[Douglas Summers]

Doug,

Since when did the presentation of the Gospel and dealing with apologetic topics through use of videos not have spiritual drawing power? That's your idea. It is not mine.

Oz, I do not know what to tell you. Though I have studied the nomenclature of the different aspects of Scripture, I do not adhere to them as a necessity in preaching, only for studying. The Spirit has not impressed me to use visual aids in preaching the Gospel, teaching is another matter. Anytime I'am called to preach and even teach through the Holy Spirit it is Jesus or our Lord said or did. Now I have used visual aids in teaching a class or sometimes in Sunday school for Children. I once was teaching a group of small children. I had the bible on tapes with the sound effects in an NIV. I turned out the lights and explained to the children that this is how it was before the beginning. I kept the lights off and played the tapes till it said, "Let there be light". Then I flipped the lights on, It wowed the kids and gave them some sense of the living word and power of God. But in preaching or Spiritual teaching, the Spirit has "never" impressed me to use visual aids. I do not know why The Spirit would tell you to use them and not me. The Spirit has called me right out of the pew to preach. It was the Spirit, and it was instant, not something I sat around and thought about. We must not confuse emotional reaction with Spiritual enlightening, one may feel sorry for what he or she has done after hearing the preacher or watching visual aids, but being sorry is not repentance..Only the word through the Spirit can condemn sin in sinful man. Do what you feel the Lord is having you to do. I know what He wants me to do.

 

[OzSpen]

Oz, I do not know what to tell you. Though I have studied the nomenclature of the different aspects of Scripture, I do not adhere to them as a necessity in preaching, only for studying. The Spirit has not impressed me to use visual aids in preaching the Gospel, teaching is another matter.

That seems a rather sporadic, idiosyncratic approach that you can use visual aids in teaching but not in preaching. Are you telling us that you don't do teaching of content in your preaching?

 

[Douglas Summers]

That seems a rather sporadic, idiosyncratic approach that you can use visual aids in teaching but not in preaching. Are you telling us that you don't do teaching of content in your preaching?

I'm telling you I preach as the Spirit leads. I do not go and decide what I want to preach, but the Spirit impresses upon me where we are in the season of mans disobedience or signs of the times we are in, and the Spirit preaches and teaches the Spirit of Christ in grace through the Scriptures (word of God) and Almighty God (God's Judgment). I do not know what the Spirit works through you, but there is this one thing. If we are born again, we can not be at opposite ends with each other.

 

[OzSpen]

I'm telling you I preach as the Spirit leads. I do not go and decide what I want to preach, but the Spirit impresses upon me where we are in the season of mans disobedience or signs of the times we are in, and the Spirit preaches and teaches the Spirit of Christ in grace through the Scriptures (word of God) and Almighty God (God's Judgment). I do not know what the Spirit works through you, but there is this one thing. If we are born again, we can not be at opposite ends with each other.

Doug,

Our topic is defending the existence of God. Let's get back to that theme. How will you defend the existence of God on the streets of the city or town where you live with someone who is an atheist or agnostic?

Does that mean you get into your super-spiritual mode of what 'the Spirit impresses upon me'? Do you ever prepare to dialogue with atheists and agnostics, starting with their common ground and moving towards what Paul did on the Areopagus (Acts 17:22-34 NLT)?

Oz

 

[smaller]

Doug,

Our topic is defending the existence of God. Let's get back to that theme. How will you defend the existence of God on the streets of the city or town where you live with someone who is an atheist or agnostic?

Does that mean you get into your super-spiritual mode of what 'the Spirit impresses upon me'? Do you ever prepare to dialogue with atheists and agnostics, starting with their common ground and moving towards what Paul did on the Areopagus (Acts 17:22-34 NLT)?

Oz

That's actually quite good Oz. And they practiced the above, not only on Mars Hill.

Acts 14:15
And saying, Sirs, why do ye these things? We also are men of like passions with you, and preach unto you that ye should turn from these vanities unto the living God, which made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are therein:

They certainly didn't claim they didn't have the same problems. They weren't trapped by those passions, but recognized them for the VANITIES they are. Romans 8:20-23.

 

[OzSpen]

That's actually quite good Oz. And they practiced the above, not only on Mars Hill.

Acts 14:15
And saying, Sirs, why do ye these things? We also are men of like passions with you, and preach unto you that ye should turn from these vanities unto the living God, which made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are therein:

They certainly didn't claim they didn't have the same problems. They weren't trapped by those passions, but recognized them for the VANITIES they are. Romans 8:20-23.

Thanks, smaller, for the affirmation.

You are correct that this starting with common ground was used in a number of places that are recorded in the Book of Acts.

Here in Australia, I find that when engaging in dialogue with someone in person or online (comments to a newspaper article online), it's important to identify with them and to discuss why they oppose Christianity. There are some rocks of stumbling that we need to clear away before we get to THE ROCK.

Oz

 

[smaller]

Thanks, smaller, for the affirmation.

You are correct that this starting with common ground was used in a number of places that are recorded in the Book of Acts.

Here in Australia, I find that when engaging in dialogue with someone in person or online (comments to a newspaper article online), it's important to identify with them and to discuss why they oppose Christianity. There are some rocks of stumbling that we need to clear away before we get to THE ROCK.

Oz

I always meet everyone exactly on the ground above. There is so much false programming pumped into the unsaved's understanding of the Gospel. It is the first line of battle, to break those phony barriers. And everyone will usually, immediately, fork up their false objections. Is it important for the unsaved to know that God made the world, the universe, and everything in it, including THEM? Absolutely it is! Proclaiming the Gospel is capturing His makings, putting them under The Lord of all things. It's quite delightful to do so. I always tell them, they can't escape anyway. Might as well deal with it. We're all going to face our Maker in every case, whether we believe it or not, like it or not. This invariably leads to them "taking their chances." Again, by faith, there are no chances. Sin and repentance, no self justifications available to anyone, then become the relevant topic.

 

[Douglas Summers]

Our topic is defending the existence of God. Let's get back to that theme. How will you defend the existence of God on the streets of the city or town where you live with someone who is an atheist or agnostic?

I have never been off topic from where I stand with the Spirit. I defend the existence of God by preaching the word of God, not by my wisdom, but by the Holy Spirit. Why is this so hard to understand? The Spirit defends God to the atheist as Christ did, with simple words, "only a fool says there is no God," (Psalms 14:1-3) Many atheist would practice Judaism for the political clout in Jesus time. God does not condemn atheist for not believing there is a God, but for hearing the truth and rejecting it. There is only one sin that sends us to hell...rejecting Christ (Heb. 10:29). But people have to hear the Gospel. (Rom. 10:9-17) (2 Pet. 2:20-22)

 

[Douglas Summers]

Thanks, smaller, for the affirmation.

Oz, beware of flattery. Do not let pride defend your teachings. We should all humble our self before God, and then He will say, well done my good and faithful servant.(Matt. 25:21-23) (Ps. 12:2-3) (Ps. 5:9) (Proverbs 26:28)

 

[OzSpen]

Oz, beware of flattery. Do not let pride defend your teachings. We should all humble our self before God, and then He will say, well done my good and faithful servant.(Matt. 25:21-23) (Ps. 12:2-3) (Ps. 5:9) (Proverbs 26:28)

You here demonstrate that my thanking someone for a word of encouragement to me (1 Thess 5:11) has been falsely labelled as flattery and pride in my teaching. I hope one day you'll learn to know the importance of encouragement and thanks in the Christian life.

 

[OzSpen]

I always meet everyone exactly on the ground above. There is so much false programming pumped into the unsaved's understanding of the Gospel. It is the first line of battle, to break those phony barriers. And everyone will usually, immediately, fork up their false objections. Is it important for the unsaved to know that God made the world, the universe, and everything in it, including THEM? Absolutely it is! Proclaiming the Gospel is capturing His makings, putting them under The Lord of all things. It's quite delightful to do so. I always tell them, they can't escape anyway. Might as well deal with it. We're all going to face our Maker in every case, whether we believe it or not, like it or not. This invariably leads to them "taking their chances." Again, by faith, there are no chances. Sin and repentance, no self justifications available to anyone, then become the relevant topic.

Here in Australia, I have to start further back than the Gospel as there is so much resistance to the existence of God and the lack of credibility of Scripture that I have to deal with these rocks of objection before I get to the Gospel.

Last week there was an incident where our national TV network, the ABC, funded by tax payers money to the tune of $1 billion annually, promoted assisted suicide by showing the video of a fellow, Max Bromson, taking his self-administered lethal dose of Nembutal while the family rolled the camera for the video. One of the national newspapers, the Melbourne Herald Sun, challenged this story and allowed space for people to leave a comment online.

One fellow's comment was: 'If Max [Bromson] was a animal his carers would be prosecuted. As for the Liberal Senator Knoll, you can pray to your mythical god and suffer if he wishes.... I will die with dignity at my own hand where I want and when I want'.

How would you, smaller, respond online to a secularist who states that you 'can pray to your mythical god'. In fact the comments section is still open for you to provide input.

I dealt with the big issue of euthanasia and assisted suicide in my article this week, Blatant promotion of assisted suicide by ABC TV

There are big issues in our world surrounding the existence of God and who gives and takes life (see 1 Sam 2:6 NLT; Psalm 139:16 NLT).

Oz

 

[Douglas Summers]

You here demonstrate that my thanking someone for a word of encouragement to me (1 Thess 5:11) has been falsely labelled as flattery and pride in my teaching. I hope one day you'll learn to know the importance of encouragement and thanks in the Christian life.

Oz, We have no fellowship here. I gave you the same Scripture support that the Lord has given to all of us. I apply to me the same as Peter applied to Paul's critics,(2 Pet. 3:13-16a) "and account that the long suffering of our Lord is salvation, even as our beloved brother Paul, also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you.
As also in all his epistles speaking in them of all these things, hard to be understood. I stopped here because the rest of the Scripture does not apply. And Peter calls him,"beloved brother," even after (Gal. 2:11-14) when Paul stood against Peters error. Pride is the Leaven in bread. Let us put away the leaven of malice and move forward together as Paul and Peter.
in Christ
Douglas Summers

 

[OzSpen]

Oz, We have no fellowship here. I gave you the same Scripture support that the Lord has given to all of us. I apply to me the same as Peter applied to Paul's critics,(2 Pet. 3:13-16a) "and account that the long suffering of our Lord is salvation, even as our beloved brother Paul, also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you.
As also in all his epistles speaking in them of all these things, hard to be understood. I stopped here because the rest of the Scripture does not apply. And Peter calls him,"beloved brother," even after (Gal. 2:11-14) when Paul stood against Peters error. Pride is the Leaven in bread. Let us put away the leaven of malice and move forward together as Paul and Peter.
in Christ
Douglas Summers

Here you have refused to deal with what I wrote. Thus, your response is a red herring fallacy.

Bye,
Oz

 

[Papa Zoom]

You here demonstrate that my thanking someone for a word of encouragement to me (1 Thess 5:11) has been falsely labelled as flattery and pride in my teaching. I hope one day you'll learn to know the importance of encouragement and thanks in the Christian life.

exactly.

 

[Papa Zoom]

I have never been off topic from where I stand with the Spirit. I defend the existence of God by preaching the word of God, not by my wisdom, but by the Holy Spirit. Why is this so hard to understand? The Spirit defends God to the atheist as Christ did, with simple words, "only a fool says there is no God," (Psalms 14:1-3) Many atheist would practice Judaism for the political clout in Jesus time. God does not condemn atheist for not believing there is a God, but for hearing the truth and rejecting it. There is only one sin that sends us to hell...rejecting Christ (Heb. 10:29). But people have to hear the Gospel. (Rom. 10:9-17) (2 Pet. 2:20-22)

You are off topic if the OP says you are. That's how these forums work. And if you continue to ignore the OP, you'll get reported.

 

[smaller]

Here in Australia, I have to start further back than the Gospel as there is so much resistance to the existence of God and the lack of credibility of Scripture that I have to deal with these rocks of objection before I get to the Gospel.

Last week there was an incident where our national TV network, the ABC, funded by tax payers money to the tune of $1 billion annually, promoted assisted suicide by showing the video of a fellow, Max Bromson, taking his self-administered lethal dose of Nembutal while the family rolled the camera for the video. One of the national newspapers, the Melbourne Herald Sun, challenged this story and allowed space for people to leave a comment online.

One fellow's comment was: 'If Max [Bromson] was a animal his carers would be prosecuted. As for the Liberal Senator Knoll, you can pray to your mythical god and suffer if he wishes.... I will die with dignity at my own hand where I want and when I want'.

How would you, smaller, respond online to a secularist who states that you 'can pray to your mythical god'. In fact the comments section is still open for you to provide input.

I dealt with the big issue of euthanasia and assisted suicide in my article this week, Blatant promotion of assisted suicide by ABC TV

There are big issues in our world surrounding the existence of God and who gives and takes life (see 1 Sam 2:6 NLT; Psalm 139:16 NLT).

Oz

We've had assisted suicide here in Oregon for a number of years. I am not against it personally and consider it a humane option, religious beliefs notwithstanding. Do you think a terminally ill beyond recourse christian would go to hell over that act? I don't. People have it within their power to end their own lives in any case. No one can take that ability from them. I also had a very close friend of mine, a believer, take his life via what they call vicarious suicide. Having witnessed his suffering and trying to help him through decades of debilitating depression he decided to end it. Had any witnessed up front close and personal, his suffering, as I did, they'd understand why.

 

[OzSpen]

We've had assisted suicide here in Oregon for a number of years. I am not against it personally and consider it a humane option, religious beliefs notwithstanding. Do you think a terminally ill beyond recourse christian would go to hell over that act? I don't. People have it within their power to end their own lives in any case. No one can take that ability from them. I also had a very close friend of mine, a believer, take his life via what they call vicarious suicide. Having witnessed his suffering and trying to help him through decades of debilitating depression he decided to end it. Had any witnessed up front close and personal, his suffering, as I did, they'd understand why.

It's more than in Oregon. It's also in Washington state, California, Montana, Washington DC, Vermont & Massachusetts (I may have forgotten other states).

Whose right is it to take life?

Australian medical doctor and retired anaesthetist, Dr Brian Pollard, nailed the major difficulty in his article, Why safe voluntary euthanasia is a myth (Quadrant 2011).

We now have evidence of that in Canada which legalised euthanasia and assisted suicide in June 2016. The slippery slope has already begun there. See:
The right to die on one’s own terms: At 94, sick, tired and living alone, ‘Dad got the death he wanted’ (National Post, Canada, 20 October 2016).

Whose responsibility is it to give and take life? Life is given by God and he determines when our end should be.

Job 1:21 (NLT) reminds us: ‘He (Job) said, “I came naked from my mother’s womb, and I will be naked when I leave. The LORD gave me what I had, and the LORD has taken it away. Praise the name of the LORD!”’ Psalm 139:16 (NIV) confirms that ‘Your (God’s) eyes saw my unformed body; all the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be’.

I refer you to my arguments against euthanasia and assisted suicide in, Blatant promotion of assisted suicide by ABC TV

While assisted suicide may seem like a humane option from an autonomous reason perspective, that's not how God sees it.

How does this relate to the existence of God? He has revealed that He is the one who decides when life is taken away from us. He has the right to end life, not a medical doctor injecting a lethal substance.

An even bigger issue that is not dealt with by euthanasia advocates is what happens one moment after life in the body ceases. God is very clear: 'And just as each person is destined to die once and after that comes judgment' (Heb 9:27 NLT). I haven't heard euthanasia advocates announcing this (God's judgment after death) to patients they are about to inject with the lethal dose.

You ask a realistic question: 'Do you think a terminally ill beyond recourse christian would go to hell over that act [of euthanasia]?' Of course not! Justification by faith doesn't mean I am to be sinless at the point of death. It means I have been declared righteous by God.

We know from the Remmelink (1991) and later reports in Holland that some doctors cannot be trusted to give voluntary euthanasia. For too many cases, there is involuntary euthanasia (doctors killing patients without their permission) in Holland and Belgium (see my article for documentation).

Oz

 

[Douglas Summers]

We've had assisted suicide here in Oregon for a number of years. I am not against it personally and consider it a humane option, religious beliefs notwithstanding. Do you think a terminally ill beyond recourse christian would go to hell over that act? I don't. People have it within their power to end their own lives in any case. No one can take that ability from them. I also had a very close friend of mine, a believer, take his life via what they call vicarious suicide. Having witnessed his suffering and trying to help him through decades of debilitating depression he decided to end it. Had any witnessed up front close and personal, his suffering, as I did, they'd understand why.

Rejecting Christ is the only reason for hell.

 

[evenifigoalone]

Reminder to please,
Address issues/ideas, not persons or personalities. Do not insult, publicly post derogatory opinions of others, post insinuation to belittle or discredit, or otherwise create a hostile environment. Present evidence for support or rebuttal during debate. Bashing the author of another view or opinion is not evidence. (ToS 2.4)

Different perspectives and views on topics will always exist, but please attempt to be gracious in discussing these. We are all of the faith, we have no need to condemn others for having views we perceive or know to be wrong. We can point out errors in a friendly manner.
"If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men."~Romans 12:18 KJV

Not necessarily directed at any one person.