Defending the existence of God

[Douglas Summers]

But you are insulting me. You first state that I am "not a disciple," which implies I am not a Christian" (a violation of the TOS), but then go on to state that "[You] would be careful about insulting the Lord, by denying any born again believer that they are not Christ's". So you not only insult me, you do the very thing you insults the Lord.

Not to mention it has nothing to do with the topic and still doesn't address my post.

Get past it and read the Scriptures.

 

[Douglas Summers]

That's getting a little bizarre Douglas.

Let's trot the condemnation thingys back a few steps.

Study the Scriptures, better yet believe them. I have told you the truth, you think it is bizarre. I condemned no one. If you felt condemned, it is on your side. (Matt. 11:11-19) You neither believe nor mourn, nor consider the Scriptures to their intent.. You must be born again.

 

[smaller]

Study the Scriptures, better yet believe them. I have told you the truth, you think it is bizarre. I condemned no one. If you felt condemned, it is on your side. (Matt. 11:11-19) You neither believe nor mourn, nor consider the Scriptures to their intent.. You must be born again.

I was specifically referring to your attack on Free.

Is there really such dire ills in the contemplations/reasonings proposed for the existence of God in the video clips? Who of us HASN'T made such contemplations? I certainly have. Daily, continually, I contemplate the things and matters of God. And I'm pretty sure most of us have or we wouldn't be here sharing about it.

 

[Free]

Scripture is pretty self explanatory unless it is a parable. And parables are for the wise (wise in their own minds), People who have ears but cannot hear and eyes, but can not see, And Scripture has never been useless except to those who think it is useless because they do not understand it. (Matt. 13:10-16)

But you're missing the obvious. Scripture should be fairly self-explanatory, and in some cases it is, but we all have biases, preconceived ideas, errors in reasoning, etc., that can give us a wrong understanding. One of the biggest problems is taking things out of context, which makes a passage say something other than what was intended, and that is what I suspect with turnorburn's use of Scripture. I asked for explanations so we can discuss precisely what he thinks those passages are saying to see whether or not they are relevant.

So as I stated, simply posting Scripture with no explanation is mostly meaningless. If someone cannot explain the meaning of passages they posted and how they are relevant to the discussion, they really should refrain from posting those passages.

 

[Free]

If I did not correct self willed teaching, then I would be a liar and the Truth would not be in me. I do not believe like you do and I have the Spirit to correct carnal religious thought. Not to lord it over anyone but to contend for the faith given by Christ and preached by the Disciples.

What do you mean by "carnal religious thought"? To what "self-willed teaching" and "carnal religious thought" in this thread are you referring? Are you suggesting that you "have the Spirit to correct carnal religious thought" and I do not? What do you think those videos are about if not contending for the faith?

 

[OzSpen]

No, it doesn't. You've had it mentioned to you several times that simply posting Scripture with no explanation why is most often meaningless.

I have seen one of your moderators also do that from time to time. It provides zero direction for the conversation by that person.

 

[Papa Zoom]

No, it doesn't. You've had it mentioned to you several times that simply posting Scripture with no explanation why is most often meaningless.

Exactly. We have to have some context to work with and posting a verse isn't helpful. The Bible doesn't actually have any verses anyway and so to post a single verse is to post out of context.

It's always helpful if the poster offer, in their own words, the point of their post.

 

[Vaccine]

I've been impressed with viewing William Lane Craig's Reasonable Faith Animated Videos, defending the existence of God. They are only short and very thought provoking. I'm recommending them to pastors for clips in church services or small groups.

Could you and your church be helped with these kinds of explanations to equip the saints for the work of ministry to the unchurched?

Oz

I'm impressed with is videos too. I liked his debates too.
Frank Turek has some great resources defending the faith as well.
http://crossexamined.org/dr-frank-turek/

 

[OzSpen]

I'm impressed with is videos too. I liked his debates too.
Frank Turek has some great resources defending the faith as well.
http://crossexamined.org/dr-frank-turek/

I've found Turek's material interesting and contemporary over the years. I'm still working through the book he co-authored with Norm Geisler, I Don't Have Enough Faith to be an Atheist (2004). I take it with me to read at Drs appointments and have it on my desk at the moment.

Dr Norman Geisler's internatlonal ministry also has some good resources. I find the Bill Craig resources of great benefit because they are short clips on YouTube and can be easily downloaded.

Another excellent resource with short YouTube clips is that by Ravi Zacharias's International Ministry's (RZIM) youth apologetics, called Reboot. I'm using these as part of a religious education for schools that also will be offered as a youth group curriculum that I'm writing.

I even dare to include some of the brilliant work by British professor of mathematics at Oxford University and a Christian, Prof John Lennox: 'Christianity, atheism and science'. Be warned, he is not a young earth creationist. Neither is Norman Geisler, William Lane Craig, and some other leading evangelicals.

Don't miss Nick Vujicic, 'Love Without Limits'.

Oz

 

[Vaccine]

I dont have enough faith to be an atheist is one of my favorites. I didnt know about reboot or prof Lennox . I like Ravi's radio programs though. I check those out, thanks for sharing.

 

[Douglas Summers]

I'm impressed with is videos too. I liked his debates too.
Frank Turek has some great resources defending the faith as well.

By the Spirit of the Lord and power of the truth of His Word in Scripture, it is by that Spirit and Word that grieves me that men need the visual aids and publications of men to convince the world of God. It throws in the face of God in Jesus Christ that man needs to to convince man by visual aids and their own publications (of which they receive monetary wealth and notoriety) as if though God needed men to confirm He exist, even though His creative attributes are a witness of Himself.

How about instead of being impressed with his videos and debates, instead, being instilled with Almighty God's Spirit and truth in Scripture which is the sure word of God. This is the witness of God; (if we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater..............He that believeth on the Son of God, hath the witness in himself. He that believeth not God hath made God a liar, and that witness is the resurrection of our Lord and His Spirit within the believer.(1 John 5:9-10) Without Spiritual rebirth, you or the world will never understand the witness power of Gods word. No visual aid or religious publication ever drew me to God, it was the preaching of the God of the Scriptures that drew me. For the word of God is LIVING and POWERFUL and sharper than a two edged sword that is able to pierce, even to the dividing asunder of the soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the hearer (Heb. 4:12). A Spirit filled believer can not draw a man to the Lord, all he can do is preach the word....only God can draw a man to Christ or witness of Himself.

 

[turnorburn]

By the Spirit of the Lord and power of the truth of His Word in Scripture, it is by that Spirit and Word that grieves me that men need the visual aids and publications of men to convince the world of God. It throws in the face of God in Jesus Christ that man needs to to convince man by visual aids and their own publications (of which they receive monetary wealth and notoriety) as if though God needed men to confirm He exist, even though His creative attributes are a witness of Himself.

How about instead of being impressed with his videos and debates, instead, being instilled with Almighty God's Spirit and truth in Scripture which is the sure word of God. This is the witness of God; (if we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater..............He that believeth on the Son of God, hath the witness in himself. He that believeth not God hath made God a liar, and that witness is the resurrection of our Lord and His Spirit within the believer.(1 John 5:9-10) Without Spiritual rebirth, you or the world will never understand the witness power of Gods word. No visual aid or religious publication ever drew me to God, it was the preaching of the God of the Scriptures that drew me. For the word of God is LIVING and POWERFUL and sharper than a two edged sword that is able to pierce, even to the dividing asunder of the soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the hearer (Heb. 4:12). A Spirit filled believer can not draw a man to the Lord, all he can do is preach the word....only God can draw a man to Christ or witness of Himself.

Amen!

 

[JPPT1974]

God exists and just read John 3:16-17. We were sinners but fall short of God's glory we needed a Savior and Lord in Jesus Christ, His one and only Son who paved the way for eternity and separation from God the Father through Jesus the ONLY Son of God.

 

[Free]

By the Spirit of the Lord and power of the truth of His Word in Scripture, it is by that Spirit and Word that grieves me that men need the visual aids and publications of men to convince the world of God. It throws in the face of God in Jesus Christ that man needs to to convince man by visual aids and their own publications (of which they receive monetary wealth and notoriety) as if though God needed men to confirm He exist, even though His creative attributes are a witness of Himself.

How about instead of being impressed with his videos and debates, instead, being instilled with Almighty God's Spirit and truth in Scripture which is the sure word of God. This is the witness of God; (if we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater..............He that believeth on the Son of God, hath the witness in himself. He that believeth not God hath made God a liar, and that witness is the resurrection of our Lord and His Spirit within the believer.(1 John 5:9-10) Without Spiritual rebirth, you or the world will never understand the witness power of Gods word. No visual aid or religious publication ever drew me to God, it was the preaching of the God of the Scriptures that drew me. For the word of God is LIVING and POWERFUL and sharper than a two edged sword that is able to pierce, even to the dividing asunder of the soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the hearer (Heb. 4:12). A Spirit filled believer can not draw a man to the Lord, all he can do is preach the word....only God can draw a man to Christ or witness of Himself.

Welcome to the 21st century. Is there something that you have against the use of reason? It is God that does the drawing of men, whether through the simple preaching of the Word or through a visual aid, a religious publication, or philosophical argument. Just because you weren't convinced by the latter doesn't mean that others aren't.

 

[OzSpen]

By the Spirit of the Lord and power of the truth of His Word in Scripture, it is by that Spirit and Word that grieves me that men need the visual aids and publications of men to convince the world of God. It throws in the face of God in Jesus Christ that man needs to to convince man by visual aids and their own publications (of which they receive monetary wealth and notoriety) as if though God needed men to confirm He exist, even though His creative attributes are a witness of Himself.

How about instead of being impressed with his videos and debates, instead, being instilled with Almighty God's Spirit and truth in Scripture which is the sure word of God. This is the witness of God; (if we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater..............He that believeth on the Son of God, hath the witness in himself. He that believeth not God hath made God a liar, and that witness is the resurrection of our Lord and His Spirit within the believer.(1 John 5:9-10) Without Spiritual rebirth, you or the world will never understand the witness power of Gods word. No visual aid or religious publication ever drew me to God, it was the preaching of the God of the Scriptures that drew me. For the word of God is LIVING and POWERFUL and sharper than a two edged sword that is able to pierce, even to the dividing asunder of the soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the hearer (Heb. 4:12). A Spirit filled believer can not draw a man to the Lord, all he can do is preach the word....only God can draw a man to Christ or witness of Himself.

Now it's time for you to be courteous to Vaccine and to respond to the content he wrote. All you do with this response is impose your unrelated views onto Vaccine's post.

I've grown so tired of your red herring responses that when I see your bold blue responses, I don't read them anymore.

Oz

 

[OzSpen]

God exists and just read John 3:16-17. We were sinners but fall short of God's glory we needed a Savior and Lord in Jesus Christ, His one and only Son who paved the way for eternity and separation from God the Father through Jesus the ONLY Son of God.

I live in a very secular Australian culture. Please tell me how you will defend God's existence to anti-God Aussies. Quoting John 3:16-17 won't do it.

 

[Papa Zoom]

By the Spirit of the Lord and power of the truth of His Word in Scripture, it is by that Spirit and Word that grieves me that men need the visual aids and publications of men to convince the world of God. It throws in the face of God in Jesus Christ that man needs to to convince man by visual aids and their own publications (of which they receive monetary wealth and notoriety) as if though God needed men to confirm He exist, even though His creative attributes are a witness of Himself.

How about instead of being impressed with his videos and debates, instead, being instilled with Almighty God's Spirit and truth in Scripture which is the sure word of God. This is the witness of God; (if we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater..............He that believeth on the Son of God, hath the witness in himself. He that believeth not God hath made God a liar, and that witness is the resurrection of our Lord and His Spirit within the believer.(1 John 5:9-10) Without Spiritual rebirth, you or the world will never understand the witness power of Gods word. No visual aid or religious publication ever drew me to God, it was the preaching of the God of the Scriptures that drew me. For the word of God is LIVING and POWERFUL and sharper than a two edged sword that is able to pierce, even to the dividing asunder of the soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the hearer (Heb. 4:12). A Spirit filled believer can not draw a man to the Lord, all he can do is preach the word....only God can draw a man to Christ or witness of Himself.

The cosmological argument IS the witness of God as is the Fine Tuning argument. You MUST start with people from where they are at. You throw the baby out with the bathwater.

 

[Douglas Summers]

Welcome to the 21st century. Is there something that you have against the use of reason? It is God that does the drawing of men, whether through the simple preaching of the Word or through a visual aid, a religious publication, or philosophical argument. Just because you weren't convinced by the latter doesn't mean that others aren't.

It is not Me, it is Christ in me, the Spirit of grace. The Holy Spirit that has given each and every born again believer gifts of service that the Holy Spirit works through us. Did God not call us? Did He not equip us with gifts of service? Did He not warn us that the world not treat us better than the world treated Him? Yet the visible Church has become a social club that have bake sales, yard sales. A born again believer should freely give as he has been given. I helped with the construction of a small church. A young pastor was always needing more increase in his weekly income and we accommodated him the best we could. He started a counseling service at the church to supplement his income. Then we hired his wife as his secretary for more income. We had a business meeting and just a couple of members came to the meeting, the pastor gave himself a raise without a majority consent. He said the members should have been there, that is why he approved his own raise. He said he had 4 years of college and he should make more money because of that.

His daughter was 15 or 16 years old and she did not want to come to church on Wednesdays. So he let here stay home by herself. She wound up pregnant. He said he wanted a house of his own, we gave him $5000 for a down payment on a newly built home. A few months after he bought the house, he sells it and moves to another state to pastor a bigger church for more money, right after he said he was not leaving. I make no judgment on him, but I was dazed at his conduct as a member of Christ body?

This is the church or religious organization that calls itself Christians! I know nothing of this kind of conduct as approved by the Holy Spirit. One pastor had a man and women who were living together as song and music leaders? There is a church that the building is so big that they can have fireworks inside the building and even a rodeo here in Tennessee. The pastors income is 1 million dollars a year. This is the way of the material church. Christian singers seeking notoriety, fame and fortune by religious songs. I could write a book on the material carnal church with it's visual aids.

How many have suffered for Christ? How many have been shipwrecked 3 times, or suffered by the attack of wild beast, went without food, no place to stay, beaten and scourged for Christ, but yet in counted it nothing compared to knowing Christ and His resurrection. How many have died to self?

 

[Douglas Summers]

Now it's time for you to be courteous to Vaccine and to respond to the content he wrote. All you do with this response is impose your unrelated views onto Vaccine's post.

I've grown so tired of your red herring responses that when I see your bold blue responses, I don't read them anymore.

Oz

Bold blue so I can see better. I know how Christ felt with the religious leaders of Israel always refusing the Spirit over carnal pride of wisdom. And Christ feels the spirit of anger over Spiritual rejected truth on me as if it was on him also. Christ feels the persecution of His body, of which I'am, along with all born again believers. I'am nobody, but the Spirit of God is full of truth and grace, Amen.

 

[Douglas Summers]

The cosmological argument IS the witness of God as is the Fine Tuning argument. You MUST start with people from where they are at. ( I agree) You throw the baby out with the bathwater (I disagree)