Defending the faith: A discussion of Catholic Doctrine

[Mungo]

You aren’t using scripture. You are using cultural opinion without addressing the scriptures I gave.

The scriptures themselves and the context plainly establish the truth.

You have yet to address the scriptures I have given, and have only tried to distract from them without ever acknowledging or addressing them.


Is this not the carpenter’s son? Is not His mother called Mary? And His brothers James, Joses, Simon, and Judas? And His sisters, are they not all with us? Where then did this Man get all these things?”
Matthew 13:55-56


Good sound exegesis requires we remain with the contextual flow of mother, meaning natural birth mother of Jesus, Mary into the rest of verse where we see brothers and sisters.

We can only conclude if mother refers to natural birth mother which is Mary, that brothers and sisters refer to Mary’s natural offspring.

To lift the foundational meaning out of it’s context and try to twist the natural meaning of brothers and sisters to mean distant relatives is a gross distortion of the plain and clear meaning of the context and text.


Then when we add the following verse, it strengthens the position.

Even in today's culture there is a range of possibilities.
That there are different kinds of brothers (and sisters) - full blood brothers, half brothers, adoptive brothers. If a man and woman marry and both have children by a previous marriage they will be regarded as brothers and sisters even though they have no genetic relationship. The actual relationship of these “brothers” (& sisters) to Jesus cannot be established unless a genealogy is given, and it is not.


There is positive indication in scripture that at least some of these brothers were not Mary's children.

Mark says that at the foot of the cross was “Mary the mother of the younger James and of Joses (Joseph), and Salome” This was obviously not Mary the mother of Jesus, so there is another Mary with sons called James and Joseph.

Matthew similarly says of the women at the foot of the cross “Among them were Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of James and Joseph” (Mt 26:56)

Luke says that at the tomb were “Mary Magdalene, Joanna, and Mary the mother of James” (Lk 24:10)

So there was another Mary whose children were named James, Joses (Joseph) and Salome.
Therefore it is likely that the James, Joseph and Salome described as brothers/sister of Jesus were the sons/daughter of a different Mary.

John writes “Standing by the cross of Jesus were his mother and his mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary of Magdala.” (Jn 19:25). Now this could mean that Jesus’ mother’s sister was there (whatever is meant by “sister”) and Mary the wife of Clopas or they were the same person, but either way there were at least three Mary’s at the cross – Mary the mother of Jesus, Mary the wife of Clopas and Mary of Magdalene. Now Mary the mother of James and Joseph could have been a fourth or she could have been Mary wife of Clopas. Either way Mary the mother of Jesus was not the mother of James and Joseph mentioned as Jesus’ brothers. And since they were listed first, neither was Simon and Judas, since if the were they would hardly have been listed after non-brothers.

The Church historian Eusebius quoting from Hegesippus (110-180 AD) writes
After the martyrdom of James and the conquest of Jerusalem which immediately followed, it is said that those of the apostles and disciples of the Lord that were still living came together from all directions with those that were related to the Lord according to the flesh (for the majority of them also were still alive) to take counsel as to who was worthy to succeed James. They all with one consent pronounced Symeon, the son of Clopas, of whom the Gospel also makes mention; to be worthy of the episcopal throne of that parish. He was a cousin, as they say, of the Saviour. For Hegesippus records that Clopas was a brother of Joseph.


So Symeon (Simeon, Simon) was the cousin of Jesus, and Mary Clopas was therefore the sister-in-law of Mary the mother of Jesus. Again note the loose use of relationships. Mary Clopas is referred to as Mary’s “sister” in Jn 19:25 when she is actually her sister-in-law.

 

[Mungo]

Then when we add the following verse, it strengthens the position.


Then Joseph, being aroused from sleep, did as the angel of the Lord commanded him and took to him his wife, and did not know her till she had brought forth her firstborn Son. And he called His name JESUS. Matthew 1:24-25



Again we see the natural contextual sentence construction whereby His mother natural birth mother, is directly related in subject to His brothers, natural birth brothers. Not some distant relative that is supposedly referred as brother.



Then His mother and brothers came to Him, and could not approach Him because of the crowd. And it was told Him by some, who said, “Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside, desiring to see You.”
But He answered and said to them, “My mother and My brothers are these who hear the word of God and do it.” Luke 8:19-21


Once again, Catholic doctrine is found to be false when compared to scripture.






JLB

It doesn't strengthen it at all because it doesn't say what you would like it to say.
The word until (or till) denotes a point in time up to which some action occurred. Neither it, nor the Greek heos from which is translated, mean that the action changed, only that there was something significant about that point in time. That point in time may be significant for reason other than a change in the action. What happened after that may be explicitly stated or may be inferred from the context, or may just be left unknown. To claim it always means the action changes is not valid and leads to absurdities.
Mt 1:25 cannot be used to prove that Mary had a sexual relationship with Joseph. To infer it is to claim what has yet to be proved.
Consider this line: "Michal the daughter of Saul had no children till the day of her death" (2 Sam. 6:23 - NRSV).
Are we to assume therefore she had children after her death?
“There was also a prophetess, Anna, the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Asher. She was advanced in years, having lived seven years with her husband after her marriage, and then as a widow until (heos) she was eighty-four.” Lk 2:36-37).
Does that imply she got married at the age of 84?
Jesus said to the Apostles “And remember, I am with you always, to (heos) the end of the age.” (Mt 28:20).
Does that mean he won’t be with us after the end of the age?
Here are some more
"but to [until] this day no one knows the place of his [Moses] burial" (Deut 34:6)
Do we know the place of Moses burial? NO
"For he [Christ] must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet." (1Cor 15:25)
Will Christ stop reigning after he has put all his enemies under his feet? NO
"Until I arrive, attend to the reading, exhortation, and teaching."(1Tim 4:13)
After Paul arrives will Timothy stop reading, exhortation and teaching? NO
"We know that all creation is groaning in labour pains even until now;" (Rom 8:22)
Has creation stopped groaning? NO
"except that you must hold fast to what you have until I come." (Rev 2:25)
Do we stop holding fast after Christ comes? NO
"To the victor, who keeps to my ways until the end, I will give authority over the nations."(Rev 2:26)
Do the victors stop keeping Christ’s ways at the end? NO
"keep the commandment without stain or reproach until the appearance of our Lord Jesus Christ" (1Tim 6:14)
Could Timothy stop keeping the commandments when Jesus appeared? NO

 

[Mungo]

Where in your “logic” is the missing information of God becoming flesh?

It’s totally missing. Any mention of God becoming flesh is nowhere in your preconceived “logic”.


QUESTION: Is God flesh or is God Spirit?


Mary gave birth to the flesh and blood man Jesus Christ.

That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. John 3:6

God is Spirit.

God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth. John 4:24

Mary gave birth to flesh. Mary didn’t give birth to God who is Spirit.


Jesus Christ was made (became) a little lower than the angels, which is to say He was made (became) a man, (flesh).

And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth. John 1:14

God became flesh. God was made flesh.

God was manifested in the flesh.


And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:
God was manifested in the flesh,
Justified in the Spirit,
Seen by angels,
Preached among the Gentiles,
Believed on in the world,
Received up in glory.
1 Timothy 3:16

The virgin Mary gave birth to flesh, the man Jesus Christ.

For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 1 Timothy 2:5


Once again, Catholic doctrine is found to be false when compared to scripture.



JLB

In Jesus God is both Spirit and flesh.

Jesus is 100% God and 100% man
One person , two natures.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God (Jn 1:1).
“And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us” (Jn 1:14)

The Word, the second person of the Trinity, didn't stop being the Word when he took on human nature.

 

[Randy]

Since mother is used each time in the context, brother is plainly understood to mean son of my mother.

Then His mother and brothers came to Him, and could not approach Him because of the crowd. And it was told Him by some, who said, “Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside, desiring to see You.”
But He answered and said to them, “My mother and My brothers are these who hear the word of God and do it.” Luke 8:19-21


Is this not the carpenter’s son? Is not His mother called Mary? And His brothers James, Joses, Simon, and Judas? And His sisters, are they not all with us? Where then did this Man get all these things?”
Matthew 13:55-56


Then when we add the following verse, it is undeniable.


Then Joseph, being aroused from sleep, did as the angel of the Lord commanded him and took to him his wife, and did not know her till she had brought forth her firstborn Son. And he called His name JESUS. Matthew 1:24-25


Out of the mouth of two or three witnesses let every word be established.






JLB

I'm not sure this is defending the faith as Jesus was not redefined from whom He was taught to be. But its clear to me from the NT that Mary had other children. Those that object are in denial in my mind.
Not one scripture can be given that shows "Jesus" calling Mary "Mother".
Elizabeth called Mary the mother of her "Lord".
Mary would be the Mother of the Christ and Jesus the Son of Man. I think that Mother of God is too far as God is unbegotten.
I don't expect any change in doctrine in regard to Catholics can be brought about with reason or scripture.
But I suppose one could debate anything in endless discussions.

I believe Mary, if here, would be the first to object to the elevated status given her but would know all generations would call her blessed.

 

[Mungo]

I'm not sure this is defending the faith as Jesus was not redefined from whom He was taught to be. But its clear to me from the NT that Mary had other children.

It's not clear at all. There is no scripture that says that Mary had other children.

Those that object are in denial in my mind.

I think you are in denial

Not one scripture can be given that shows "Jesus" calling Mary "Mother".

So?

Elizabeth called Mary the mother of her "Lord".

Who is this Lord if not God?

Mary would be the Mother of the Christ and Jesus the Son of Man. I think that Mother of God is too far as God is unbegotten.

Is Jesus Christ not God?

I don't expect any change in doctrine in regard to Catholics can be brought about with reason or scripture.
But I suppose one could debate anything in endless discussions.

Because there is no scripture.

 

[Randy]

It's not clear at all. There is no scripture that says that Mary had other children.



I think you are in denial

So?


Who is this Lord if not God?



Is Jesus Christ not God?


Because there is no scripture.

There is scripture that states brothers and sisters of Jesus. You make my case with your response. "Denial"
God is unbegotten. Jesus is from the Father alone.

 

[Randy]

Jesus’ brothers said to him, “Leave Galilee and go to Judea, so that your disciples there may see the works you do.
4 No one who wants to become a public figure acts in secret. Since you are doing these things, show yourself to the world.”
5 For even his own brothers did not believe in him

 

[Mungo]

There is scripture that states brothers and sisters of Jesus. You make my case with your response. "Denial"
God is unbegotten. Jesus is from the Father alone.

Jesus’ brothers said to him, “Leave Galilee and go to Judea, so that your disciples there may see the works you do.
4 No one who wants to become a public figure acts in secret. Since you are doing these things, show yourself to the world.”
5 For even his own brothers did not believe in him

Nowhere does scripture say these "brothers" are Mary's children. This has been gone over many times in this thread.
Did you not bother to read the posts before jumping in?

Do you deny that Jesus is God, the second person of the Trinity?

 

[Randy]

Nowhere does scripture say these "brothers" are Mary's children. This has been gone over many times in this thread.
Did you not bother to read the posts before jumping in?

Do you deny that Jesus is God, the second person of the Trinity?

There stated as Jesus's brothers. Mary and Joseph had no children with them when they went to register at Bethlehem.
"Denial" "Denial"
If this thread was about the trinity and I was so inclined I could discuss that with you. Right now we are discussing Mary's other children. But in such discussions the God and Father of the Lord Jesus knows I stated truth.
The Family as noted which doesn't help your case of "another" Mother for Jesus's siblings.
“Isn’t this the carpenter’s son? Isn’t his mother’s name Mary, and aren’t his brothers James, Joseph, Simon and Judas?

 

[Mungo]

There stated as Jesus's brothers. Mary and Joseph had no children with them when they went to register at Bethlehem.
"Denial" "Denial"
If this thread was about the trinity and I was so inclined I could discuss that with you. Right now we are discussing Mary's other children. But in such discussions the God and Father of the Lord Jesus knows I stated truth.
The Family as noted which doesn't help your case of "another" Mother for Jesus's siblings.
“Isn’t this the carpenter’s son? Isn’t his mother’s name Mary, and aren’t his brothers James, Joseph, Simon and Judas?

So you haven't read the previous posts.
OK so here it is again.

According to Dave Armstrong (a Catholic apologist), a Protestant work The Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words defines adelphos as follows:

Adelphos: denotes a brother, or near kinsmen; in the plural, a community based on identity of origin or life. It is used of:
1. male, children of the same parents….
2. male descendant of the same parents, Acts 7:23,26; Hebrews 7:5
4. people of the same nationality, Acts 3:17,22; Romans 9:3…
5. any man or neighbor, Luke 10:29; Matthew 5:22, 7:3;
6. persons united by a common interest, Matthew 5:47
7. persons united by a common calling, Revelation 22:9
8. mankind, Matthew 25:40; Hebrews 2:17


Indeed even in today's culture there is a range of possibilities.
That there are different kinds of brothers (and sisters) - full blood brothers, half brothers, adoptive brothers. If a man and woman marry and both have children by a previous marriage they will be regarded as brothers and sisters even though they have no genetic relationship. The actual relationship of these “brothers” (& sisters) to Jesus cannot be established unless a genealogy is given, and it is not.

There is positive indication in scripture that at least some of these brothers were not Mary's children.

Mark says that at the foot of the cross was “Mary the mother of the younger James and of Joses (Joseph), and Salome” This was obviously not Mary the mother of Jesus, so there is another Mary with sons called James and Joseph.

Matthew similarly says of the women at the foot of the cross “Among them were Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of James and Joseph” (Mt 26:56)

Luke says that at the tomb were “Mary Magdalene, Joanna, and Mary the mother of James” (Lk 24:10)

So there was another Mary whose children were named James, Joses (Joseph) and Salome.
Therefore it is likely that the James, Joseph and Salome described as brothers/sister of Jesus were the sons/daughter of a different Mary.

John writes “Standing by the cross of Jesus were his mother and his mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary of Magdala.” (Jn 19:25). Now this could mean that Jesus’ mother’s sister was there (whatever is meant by “sister”) and Mary the wife of Clopas or they were the same person, but either way there were at least three Mary’s at the cross – Mary the mother of Jesus, Mary the wife of Clopas and Mary of Magdalene. Now Mary the mother of James and Joseph could have been a fourth or she could have been Mary wife of Clopas. Either way Mary the mother of Jesus was not the mother of James and Joseph mentioned as Jesus’ brothers. And since they were listed first, neither was Simon and Judas, since if the were they would hardly have been listed after non-brothers.

The Church historian Eusebius quoting from Hegesippus (110-180 AD) writes
After the martyrdom of James and the conquest of Jerusalem which immediately followed, it is said that those of the apostles and disciples of the Lord that were still living came together from all directions with those that were related to the Lord according to the flesh (for the majority of them also were still alive) to take counsel as to who was worthy to succeed James. They all with one consent pronounced Symeon, the son of Clopas, of whom the Gospel also makes mention; to be worthy of the episcopal throne of that parish. He was a cousin, as they say, of the Saviour. For Hegesippus records that Clopas was a brother of Joseph.

So Symeon (Simeon, Simon) was the cousin of Jesus, and Mary Clopas was therefore the sister-in-law of Mary the mother of Jesus. Again note the loose use of relationships. Mary Clopas is referred to as Mary’s “sister” in Jn 19:25 when she is actually her sister-in-law.

In the book of Jude he says “Jude, a slave of Jesus Christ and brother of James” (Jude 1:1) So Jude (or Judas) is probably the brother of James the son of Clopas.

Then also Luke when listing the apostles says James, son of Alpheus. But the Aramaic Alpheus can be rendered in Greek as either Alpheus or Clopas. So again James, the “brother” of the Lord is probably the son of Clopas.

In another thread Walpole posted this:

Mark 6:3 ---> "Is this not the carpenter, THE Son of Mary, and brother of James, Joses, Judas, and Simon? And are not His sisters here with us?” So they were offended at Him."

Scripture calls Jesus "THE" son of Mary, not "A" son of Mary. These "brothers" are never called the children of Mary, only Jesus himself is (Jn 2:1; 19:25; Acts 1:14). Furthermore, we know James and Joses (named as "brothers") are actually sons of a different Mary per Mt 27:56 (Mk 15:40).

Scripture does say Jesus had brothers (and sisters). However, as has been posted in this thread, Scripture shows they were not uterine brothers. The term "brother" in Jewish antiquity had a much broader meaning than a uterine or agnate sibling. There is NO scripture which identifies another as a son (or daughter) of Mary. Thus, any claim that Jesus had uterine siblings is one completely foreign to both Scripture and the regula fidei of Christianity.

 

[Randy]

Nowhere does scripture say these "brothers" are Mary's children. This has been gone over many times in this thread.
Did you not bother to read the posts before jumping in?

Do you deny that Jesus is God, the second person of the Trinity?

They don't state Joseph is their Father either but I expect that doesn't conflict with your theology so you don't state otherwise.

Joseph and Mary (no other children were noted with them) traveled to Bethlehem to register for the census. Since Joseph was of the house of David which would include any other children by Him. But again none noted. No other children were noted when Joseph and Mary took Jesus and fled to Egypt.

A Father and Mother and their children were noted when Jesus went to His home town in Nazareth.

So now reason and scripture given but again you won't listen.

Jesus was before the world began and Mary couldn't be "His" Mother in that "context". Mary is the Mother of the Christ who is Lord of all. But it was lawful for Mary to have had relations with her lawful husband after the birth of Jesus and that takes nothing away from her in Gods eyes.

 

[Mungo]

They don't state Joseph is their Father either but I expect that doesn't conflict with your theology so you don't state otherwise.

Joseph and Mary (no other children were noted with them) traveled to Bethlehem to register for the census. Since Joseph was of the house of David which would include any other children by Him. But again none noted. No other children were noted when Joseph and Mary took Jesus and fled to Egypt.

A Father and Mother and their children were noted when Jesus went to His home town in Nazareth.

So now reason and scripture given but again you won't listen.

Jesus was before the world began and Mary couldn't be "His" Mother in that "context". Mary is the Mother of the Christ who is Lord of all. But it was lawful for Mary to have had relations with her lawful husband after the birth of Jesus and that takes nothing away from her in Gods eyes.

Let's see:
1. You have totally ignored my last post.
2. You give no scripture - just your opinions.
3. I've asked you "Do you deny that Jesus is God, the second person of the Trinity?" You have not answered my question - Do you deny that Jesus is God?
4. Where is your scripture that says Mary (the mother of Jesus) had other children?

 

[Randy]

Let's see:
1. You have totally ignored my last post.
2. You give no scripture - just your opinions.
3. I've asked you "Do you deny that Jesus is God, the second person of the Trinity?" You have not answered my question - Do you deny that Jesus is God?
4. Where is your scripture that says Mary (the mother of Jesus) had other children?

I have not ignored your opinion that suggests Mary is a step Mother to Jesus's siblings. That's not implied or given in scripture. I have given scripture that Jesus had brothers and sisters. You yourself state Mary is Jesus's Mother. And the croud thought Jesus was His mother and Joseph was His Father.

As to (3) not in this thread.

In addition those who wrote the testimony knew Joseph wasn't Jesus's Father so if Jesus's brothers and sisters weren't by Mary than how can they be His brothers and sisters?

Now Jesus himself was about thirty years old when he began his ministry. He was the son, so it was thought, of Joseph, the son of Heli

 

[Mungo]

I have not ignored your opinion that suggests Mary is a step Mother to Jesus's siblings. That's not implied or given in scripture.

I didn't claim that Mary is the step mother of Jesus' siblings. So your claim is a straw man.
You still haven't provided any scripture to show that Mary had other children.

I have given scripture that Jesus had brothers and sisters.

And I have given you evidence, scriptural and other, that these brothers and sisters were not the children of Mary the mother of Jesus.

ou yourself state Mary is Jesus's Mother. And the croud thought Jesus was His mother and Joseph was His Father.

Yes, but what is your point?

As to (3) not in this thread.

Why not? It was you who said "Mary would be the Mother of the Christ and Jesus the Son of Man. I think that Mother of God is too far as God is unbegotten."

So why cannot you answer the question - Is Jesus God? Yes or No?
Why are you evading answering?

 

[Randy]

I didn't claim that Mary is the step mother of Jesus' siblings. So your claim is a straw man.
You still haven't provided any scripture to show that Mary had other children.

And I have given you evidence, scriptural and other, that these brothers and sisters were not the children of Mary the mother of Jesus.



Yes, but what is your point?

Why not? It was you who said "Mary would be the Mother of the Christ and Jesus the Son of Man. I think that Mother of God is too far as God is unbegotten."

So why cannot you answer the question - Is Jesus God? Yes or No?
Why are you evading answering?

Jesus is the only begotten God or like to like begotten Son from the Father alone. Col 1:19 John 1:18
The Father is the only unbegotten or only true God. John 17:3

Jesus is the beginning and firstborn of all creation and the beginning and firstborn from the dead.
Colossians 1:15–19

 

[Mungo]

Jesus is the only begotten God or like to like begotten Son from the Father alone. Col 1:19 John 1:18
The Father is the only unbegotten or only true God. John 17:3

Jesus is the beginning and firstborn of all creation and the beginning and firstborn from the dead.
Colossians 1:15–19

So do I understand you correctly?
You think Jesus is not the one true God but something other than God; a creature created by God?

 

[Randy]

So do I understand you correctly?
You think Jesus is not the one true God but something other than God; a creature created by God?

As I read the Father alone is the only true God.
Jesus is the only begotten God or like to like begotten Son.
So yes to me Jesus, (His spirit) is Gods firstborn and the fullness was gifted not formed from the will of another Col 1:19
Jesus has always been the Son.

So what I state to you the eternal life found in the Son is the Father.
He never dies likewise those in Him never die.
Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me.

So this question, "Is Jesus God?"
He never dies.
Yes, He is all that the Father is.
No, He has always been the Son.

 

[Mungo]

As I read the Father alone is the only true God.
Jesus is the only begotten God or like to like begotten Son.
So yes to me Jesus, (His spirit) is Gods firstborn and the fullness was gifted not formed from the will of another Col 1:19
Jesus has always been the Son.

So what I state to you the eternal life found in the Son is the Father.
He never dies likewise those in Him never die.
Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me.

So this question, "Is Jesus God?"
He never dies.
Yes, He is all that the Father is.
No, He has always been the Son.

As I read the Father alone is the only true God.
Jesus is the only begotten God or like to like begotten Son.
So yes to me Jesus, (His spirit) is Gods firstborn and the fullness was gifted not formed from the will of another Col 1:19
Jesus has always been the Son.

So what I state to you the eternal life found in the Son is the Father.
He never dies likewise those in Him never die.
Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me.

So this question, "Is Jesus God?"
He never dies.
Yes, He is all that the Father is.
No, He has always been the Son.

Please answer the question asked.
You think Jesus is not the one true God but something other than God; a creature created by God?

 

[Randy]

Please answer the question asked.
You think Jesus is not the one true God but something other than God; a creature created by God?

I suggest you reread my answer or do whatever you want to do. I finished in regard to the trinity.

 

[JLB]

In Jesus God is both Spirit and flesh.

Jesus is 100% God and 100% man
One person , two natures.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God (Jn 1:1).
“And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us” (Jn 1:14)

The Word, the second person of the Trinity, didn't stop being the Word when he took on human nature.

The scriptures teach us the Word became flesh… a little lower than the angels.

But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, for the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, that He, by the grace of God, might taste death for everyone. Hebrews 2:9

As a flesh and blood man He was not omnipresent, able to be everywhere. He had to walk and travel from place to place.

The Unlimited Omnipresent God Who is Spirit, became flesh; limited in His capacity as man, as flesh and blood.

The Immortal became mortal.

God is Spirit.

The Spirit of Christ is omnipresent;

But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. Romans 8:9

The Spirit of Christ dwells in all of His people at once, being Omnipresent.


In His limited capacity as a flesh and blood man, He no longer had the unlimited omnipresent capacity as God.


So no, Mary did not give birth to Spirit. She gave birth to the flesh and blood Man Jesus Christ who became limited, even to confining Himself to the limited capacity of the womb of a virgin.





JLB