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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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Defending the faith: A discussion of Catholic Doctrine
- Thread starter JLB
- Start date
But from the hypostatic union point of view there was no separation of the person of Jesus. He was both 100 percent human (a rational soul) and a (human body) mysteriously fused or joined with a divine nature (fully God). 1 person only not separated as you are defining. Not that I hold to such things but that is orthodoxy.
Jesus is all that the Father is. The only begotten God or like to like begotten Son. The Father is unbegotten -the only true God.
Col 1:19 - this is from the will of another and did take place at a point in history before the world began.
Is Jesus God?
He never dies.
Yes, He is all that the Father is.
No, He has always been the Son.
Again you parse too much if I am all that the father is.but I am his son .I am. God .
Yes, and in regard to the resurrection of the dead that Jesus spoke of He is the beginning of that event and the firstborn from the dead.
Paul before Agrippa
They said that the Messiah would die and be the first to rise from death.
Likewise Jesus is the beginning of the event of the creation and the firstborn of all creation.
The Church states Jesus is begotten from the Father alone.
I agree with that.
“And to the angel of the church in Laodicea write: ‘The words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of God’s creation.
If you belong to Christ them "you" are the seed of Abraham. As you and Jesus are ONE.
In the same manner the Father is in Jesus and Jesus is the first and last.
All the fullness of the Godhead was not pleased to dwell you. The Spirit that proceeds from the Father was sent in Jesus's name and you have been given fullness in Christ.
Again this is not coeternal and was stated about the Son who was. From the will of another.
Col 1:19
Ok, since we are seeking to be in unity with the Spirit in our understanding, let’s each present a scripture or two that supports our belief.
And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth. John 1:14
Key: the Word became flesh and dwelt among us
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, for the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, that He, by the grace of God, might taste death for everyone. Hebrews 2:9
Key: we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels
We see the Word was the one thing, God, then He BECAME something else; He became flesh, which is to say, He was made a little lower than the angels.
My belief is His flesh was human, and therefore was a little lower than the angels, so that He could taste death for everyone.
His human body is what Mary gave birth to; the man Jesus Christ.
So my question to you is;
Did God become flesh or did God become God.
Ok, now please post your scriptures that teach us the Word became 100% fully human and 100% fully God.
JLB
God the Word became flesh.
Jesus through the Virgin Mary became flesh, so that He tasted death for everyone.
Jesus flesh was not God.
The Spirit of Christ is God.
God is Spirit.
Mary gave birth to flesh.
JLB
Mungo
Member
No that’s not quite right.
Mother of God Lk 1:43
Mary was assumed into heaven by the will of Her sin not cos she was sinless, and she chose to die and remain three to conform to Her divine son. Rev 12:1
Ever virgin scripture never says anyone is a biological child of Mary accept Jesus, only one son,and her son on God. Matt 1:16 Isa 7:14 Matt 1:21 Lk 1:31 Mk 6:3 etc.
Mary was conceived without sin,
Song of Solomon 4:7 Thou art all fair, my love; there is no spot in thee.
Song of Solomon 6: 9 My dove, my undefiled is but one; she is the only one of her mother, she is the choice one of her that bare her. The daughters saw her, and blessed her; yea, the queens and the concubines, and they praised her.
10 Who is she that looketh forth as the morning, fair as the moon, clear as the sun, and terrible as an army with banners?
Christ not only saves us from our past sins by forgiveness but he also preserves us from future sin by his grace, in both cases he is savior, and Mary was preserved from original sin and from all sin to the glory of God and the praise of Jesus Christ! Lk 1:49
Since when does the Holy Ghost overshadow a sinner? Lk 1:35
Since when does the Holy Ghost conceive in a sinner? Matt 1:20
Since when does sinner bear the Holy savior? The Holy Son of God? Lk 1:35
Ex 25 see how holy, pure, and consecrated to God’s holy purpose:
Jesus Christ took flesh and blood from a sinner?
The Holy Spirit of God conceived in a sinner the eternal salvation of God and the holy Son of God?
Anything consecrated to God and His service (purposes) must be immaculate clean and pure, covered in Gold.
Immaculate conception (sinless)
gen 3:15 enmity or total war none of satans works are found in Mary!
Lk 1:28 full of grace
Lk 1:49 great things plural (immaculate conception of Mary and the miraculous conception of Jesus)
Rev12:1 woman clothed with the sun. Immaculate purity, filled with the plentitude of divine grace!
Sinless Virgin!
Immaculate conception!
Lk 1:47 And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.
Mary was preserved from all sin!
Jesus is your savior?
How?
By forgiving your past sins? Yes
But also by preserving you from sin!
and Mary was preserved from all sin, original and personal!
In the first moment of Her creation in virtue of the future merits of Jesus Christ!
Lk 1:37 For with God nothing shall be impossible
Lk 1:49 For he that is mighty hath done to me great things; and holy is his name.
Ineffabilis Deus
The Immaculate Conception
Pope BI. Pius IX - 1854
“We declare, pronounce, and define that the doctrine which holds that the most Blessed Virgin Mary, in the first instance of her conception, by a singular grace and privilege granted by Almighty God, in view of the merits of Jesus Christ, the Savior of the human race, was preserved free from all stain of original sin, is a doctrine revealed by God and therefore to be believed firmly and constantly by all the faithful.”
Gen 3:15 I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed: she shall crush thy head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel.
(Enmities total war, none of satan’s works found in Her immaculate purity)
Lk 1:28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, Mary full of Grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.
(Immaculate purity, full of grace, blessed)
Lk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
(Mary must have immaculate purity)
Lk 1:47 And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour. (Preserved from all sin in virtue of the merits of the blood of the savior who is Her son)
Lk 1:49 For he that is mighty hath done to me great things; and holy is his name.
(Immaculate conception of Mary and the miraculous conception of Jesus)
Song of Solomon 4:1 Behold, thou art fair, my love; behold, thou art fair; thou hast doves' eyes within thy locks: thy hair is as a flock of goats, that appear from mount Gilead.
Rev 12:1 a woman clothed with the sun.
(Immaculate purity)
Two ways of being savior, forgive sins: and to preserve us from sin:
Mary was preserved by God from sin!
Because of Her immaculate Conception and being filled with the plenitude of divine grace Mary from her mother’s womb saw the beatific vision of God in heaven on His throne, and was consumed with love and desire for God and His will, she dedicated and consecrated her entire being to Him forever, and began interceding and imploring God’s grace and mercy! Matt 5:8
The pure of heart shall see God.
Thanks
Orthodoxy states Jesus was fully God and fully man/human. Via the hypostatic union. A rational soul + a human body + Divine nature mysteriously fused or joined as 1 person. So its not a side by side joining its a through and through joining as stated. It was stated so with a our way or the highway mentality but not really explained how it is so. Like if Jesus has a human soul and a human body what part of Him is God? The hypostatic union would state all of him.
Its clear to me the Son who was, His spirit, was in that body.
"Father into your hands I commit My spirit"
And the Fathers works Jesus performed per Jesus testified that the Father is in Him and He in the Father. The Father is another person.
Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods” ’ d ? 35If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be set aside— 36what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’? 37Do not believe me unless I do the works of my Father. 38But if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.”
None of the above from your post are scripture.
Just you stating your opinion and tagging your opinion with a scripture reference.
JLB
Nothing here that pertains to Mary.
This is a total perversion of scripture, that replaces He, Jesus Christ, with she , Mary.
And I will put enmity
Between you and the woman,
And between your seed and her Seed;
He shall bruise your head,
And you shall bruise His heel.”
Genesis 3:15
Nothing whatsoever at all about Mary being sinless or her being a virgin after she gave birth to Christ.
Completely false doctrine.
Here is the truth from scripture —
Since mother is used each time in the context, brother is plainly understood to mean son of my mother.
Then His mother and brothers came to Him, and could not approach Him because of the crowd. And it was told Him by some, who said, “Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside, desiring to see You.”
But He answered and said to them, “My mother and My brothers are these who hear the word of God and do it.” Luke 8:19-21
Is this not the carpenter’s son? Is not His mother called Mary? And His brothers James, Joses, Simon, and Judas? And His sisters, are they not all with us? Where then did this Man get all these things?”
Matthew 13:55-56
Then when we add the following verse, it is undeniable.
Then Joseph, being aroused from sleep, did as the angel of the Lord commanded him and took to him his wife, and did not know her till she had brought forth her firstborn Son. And he called His name JESUS. Matthew 1:24-25
JLB
Again, please state scripture, that teaches us about your claimed
“hypostatic union” or that He was 100% human, and 100% God.
Scripture, not more opinion.
JLB
Again, it's not my theology but orthodoxy nor my stated belief. Council of Chalcedon 451
I'm not stating Mary is the mother of God. It's going to be easier for a Camal to go through the eye of a needle then for you to convince some Catholics otherwise. Ref: "A discussion of Catholic Doctrine"
What did you think would follow?
Again, it's clear to me the Son who was, (His spirit), was in that body.
"Father into your hands I commit my spirit"
The church took hundreds of years to come up with a way to show, as they state, the coeternal only begotten Son appeared as a man. They shied away from stating He just became flesh and sought a way to preserve the Son's divinity appeared as a man while holding to appeared among us as a fully human man.
feel free to search such things. "hypostatic union"
The doctrine of the hypostatic union (the two natures of Jesus) was adopted as orthodox doctrine at the Council of Chalcedon in 451.
Yes a divine person with a human nature
Is the father the “eternal father”?
Who is Elizabeth referring too? Lk 1:43
And it’s not my opinion, it’s the apostolic faith of the fathers decreed by holy apostolic council
“The ancient faith of the apostles revealed by Christ”! Jude 1:3 Thee faith once delivered to the saints.
It’s not our duty to discover the faith in scripture but to keep the faith that is revealed by God thru Christ and his apostolic church
Thanks