Did God create hell?

[VirginShallConceive]

A couple of problems with your argument. Firstly, it doesn't make sense to build a time machine because you want to undo something that you think needs to be undone. You are not God and do not know how things are to unfold, how they were meant to unfold, and what the results would be should someone be able to go back in time and change things that have happened.

I agree with this. Good points, Free.

Yeah, time travel to the past is very paradoxical. I still think my post is a good illustration of what any decent person's intentions should be, given that far-fetched hypothetical scenario.

One little thing that I would want to clarify is this: If I did have the ability to save someone who was on their way to eternal torture, I would save them, and I don't believe it would be going against God(I don't think you were implying that I wanted to go against God, Free, but I am just clarifying). It's just like if I saw somebody in agony because of a natural disaster(act of God), I would want to help them, not because God expects me to, but because I couldn't help but feel sorry for them. I think that is a quality that God favors in those of us who possess it, which I think is most of us.

"Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven." -Matthew 5:16

Secondly, the Bible is very clear that there will be punishment in hell and it seems to be suggested that they will be there for eternity. However, it is a strawman to suggest that people will be in torture in hell for eternity.

I obviously agree with this too.

 

[VirginShallConceive]

I don't know who John Piper is...is he kin to the Pied Piper?? Matthew 10:28" And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell." So according to Mr. Piper i guess the word "destroy" really doesn't mean to destroy something but to keep it alive??

I think Mr. "Pied In His Face" Piper is the one who just got destroyed.

:toofunny

 

[Guest]

Oh thats okay i found it amusing...anyways i am just trying to get people to think a little "outside of the box". Sometimes we get caught up in the mainstream traditional way of thinking and the traditional way of thinking is not always as scripturally solid as mainstream churches like to think. If you step outside of the box...sometimes things look different. God bless you.

The position that you're taking is believing that there is no judgement after death. I'm sorry man, but you're in for a big suprise. Do you understand why the joke is on you? Besides if you believe there is hell but no torture, wouldn't separation from God be torture enough?

 

[Grappler]

The position that you're taking is believing that there is no judgement after death. I'm sorry man, but you're in for a big suprise. Do you understand why the joke is on you? Besides if you believe there is hell but no torture, wouldn't separation from God be torture enough?

urk....please show for me and anyone else that is watching this topic where i posted that there is no judgment after death. I never once said and never have said that there is NO judgment after death. Now once again urk...please show me and anyone else watching this where i posted that i believe there is NO hell. I guess a better way for me to put it is there are no people currently in hell....God may have already prepared that place....

 

[Guest]

urk....please show for me and anyone else that is watching this topic where i posted that there is no judgment after death. I never once said and never have said that there is NO judgment after death. Now once again urk...please show me and anyone else watching this where i posted that i believe there is NO hell. I guess a better way for me to put it is there are no people currently in hell....God may have already prepared that place....

Ok, let's say I'm wrong and I assumed you didn't believe in judgement and hell. Your argument is that why would a loving God create a place of eternal torment. So with this post above, you do agree there is judgement and a hell. Ok, so why have you been asking this question over and over, why would a loving God create a place of eternal torment?

 

[Sparkey]

Commercial interruption (a message from our ultimate sponsor)

31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: 32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: 33 And he shall set the sheep son his right hand, but the goats on the left.

34 Then shall tthe King say unto uthem on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, winherit xthe kingdom yprepared for you zfrom the foundation of the world: 35 aFor I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: 36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. 37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? 38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? 39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: 43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. 44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? 45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. 46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
26 And it came to pass, when Jesus had finished all these sayings, he said unto his disciples,

2 Ye know that after two days is the feast of the passover, and the Son of man is betrayed to be crucified.

 

[Grappler]

Ok, let's say I'm wrong and I assumed you didn't believe in judgement and hell. Your argument is that why would a loving God create a place of eternal torment. So with this post above, you do agree there is judgement and a hell. Ok, so why have you been asking this question over and over, why would a loving God create a place of eternal torment? It doesn't make sense, do you just love to hear yourself talk?

Oh there is no 'lets say' or assuming...you were incorrect to say that i don't believe in judgment or punishment (hell). I don't believe a loving God would punish a lost soul in unimaginable agony for ever and ever and ever. And i asked that question in a rhetorical sense.

 

[Grappler]

Matthew 25: 41

41 Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels./ (NIV)



I think when people get something in their head, they fail to read posts (or their Bible), they can only see what they want to see. ??

When people get something in their head it is sometimes hard for them to think as well.lol Now in your head you make the assumption that this place is already prepared and as i said myself it may very well be....but what i think you are missing here is Jesus is talking about a future event. Jesus makes a prophetic statement that one day the devil and his angels will be cast into hell. God may very well have not prepared this place yet as of today ...maybe he will next week...maybe he did 24 years ago...who knows....this is a rather silly detail to be debating don't you think?:yes

 

[Guest]

I don't believe a loving God would punish a lost soul in unimaginable agony for ever and ever and ever.

If you don't believe that hell is forever and ever, than what is your idea of 'judgement' using scripture? Even if God prepares this place in the future, you do realize one day you will die, right?

 

[Grappler]

Got any scripture to back that up? Because there's scripture to back up that hellfire is eternal.

Are you are at peace with the idea of your lost loved ones and friends being tormented with unimaginable pain forever and ever and ever? If you are then by all means continue to believe it. While we are in the Kingdom eons from now guess what they are going to be doing? Yep...according those who believe the unrighteous have eternal life they will be screaming in agony. Nice huh? Anyways as a matter of fact sir i do have scripture to back up the destruction of the unrighteous in hell and i have scripture to back up the unrighteous do not live forever...a little hint it may be the most popular verse in the bible.:yes

 

[Guest]

this is better than tv, oh wait lemme get my popcorn.

 

[Grappler]

If you don't believe that hell is forever and ever, than what is your idea of 'judgement' using scripture? Even if God prepares this place in the future, you do realize one day you will die, right?

Actually urk you err again...there is a good chance that i will be alive at the return of my Lord and Saviour so please don't make the absolute statement that one day i will die. One day i may die. Maybe tomorrow who knows?lol But you see urk unlike the "unsaved" i have been given eternal life so in a sense i will never die...this body...this corrupt flesh will die but my soul has been given eternal life...and i thank and praise God everyday for that....don't you?

 

[Grappler]

this is better than tv, oh wait lemme get my popcorn.

Lol...it is good to see you have "lightened up' a bit.

 

[Guest]

Anyways as a matter of fact sir i do have scripture to back up the destruction of the unrighteous in hell and i have scripture to back up the unrighteous do not live forever...a little hint it may be the most popular verse in the bible.:yes

Ok, I have my popcorn now. Please continue, this is fascinating..

 

[Grappler]

I think you just like to argue and be contentious. You teach nothing, edify no one, nit pick and question everyone and everything. That's not very Christianlike. I'm not sure why I'm still talking to you. Good day sir.

I am not sure why you are speaking for urk either.lol Ed...you started responding to my posts...that is why you were talking to me...i did not initiate this conversation with you specifically and you are right it is not very Christlike to nit pick...so why did you it? I am just on here asking fellow Christians how they reconcile a loving merciful God who teaches his children to forgive their enemies and then he turns around and tortures them not for a day or even a year but forever and forever and forever....while we have been in the Kingdom for eons they are still going to be screaming in agony...so you are at peace with that?? Then that is good....if you want to continue to cling to that belief then by all means do so. Do you continue to believe this because you like it? feel obligated? One can take scripture and support that the unrighteous dead are not given eternal life but eventually are destroyed in the lake of fire. That is the path that i choose to take. Good evening to you sir.

 

[Guest]

Grappler, instead of asking us the same question over and over and over, day after day, why don't you actually tell us what you believe in using scripture in regards to hell and judgement for the unrighteous.

 

[Guest]

Mark 9:48 tells me different - Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
Isaiah 66:24 - And they shall go forth, and look Upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: For their worm shall not die, Neither shall their fire be quenched; And they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

One can take scripture and support that the unrighteous dead are not given eternal life but eventually are destroyed in the lake of fire. That is the path that i choose to take.

Where is your scripture that supports your position? ^

 

[P31Woman]

Lol...about as clear as mud. Ok so it is not a matter of obligation with you. Is it more like a matter of you really like believing in the eternal torture of the unrighteous regardless of scripture either way?? Oh ok cool so perishing doesn't really mean perishing it means eternal life in torment...interesting. So it doesn't matter whether we believe in the Son or not we still get eternal life?? I don't know who John Piper is...is he kin to the Pied Piper?? Matthew 10:28" And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell." So according to Mr. Piper i guess the word "destroy" really doesn't mean to destroy something but to keep it alive??

Odd, I found it extremely clear. BTW, you are a first for me. I've never known a Christian who participated in an Christian apologetic debates that did now know who John Piper is.

I believe the core of this issue is how one views the Holiness of God and true understand of sin, because the teachings of scripture is very plain.


No one has denied God's ability to destroy. But here in Matthew 25 God tells us what he is going to do.

46 “And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous will go into eternal life.”

BTW, I think you believe forgiveness and being reconciled go hand in hand. That's not true. Sometimes it does and sometimes it does not.


God tells me to forgive, love and pray for my enemies. However he does not require I be reconciled unto them unless they show true repentance. The forgiveness I offer to an unrepentant person is a matter of obedience to God.

God tells us in his word not to be reconciled with someone who calls themselves a follower of Christ yet continues in sin. (refuses to repent of their sin)

1 Corinthians 5
2 Thessalonians 3

Study how the believer is to be around sinners or those who claim to be in christ but live in sin.

We are not to allow it to "stain us", "not be yoked together", etc.

 

[John 8:32]

Odd, I found it extremely clear. BTW, you are a first for me. I've never known a Christian who participated in an Christian apologetic debates that did now know who John Piper is.

I believe the core of this issue is how one views the Holiness of God and true understand of sin, because the teachings of scripture is very plain.


No one has denied God's ability to destroy. But here in Matthew 25 God tells us what he is going to do.

46 “And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous will go into eternal life.”

Eternal punishment is not the same as eternal punishing...

Jud 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Still burning today? Nope, but the punishment is eternal, Sodom and Gomorrah are gone.

 

[JCitoL]

Where did Hell come from? Did God create it? Did the devil create it? Has it come into existence as a result of disobedience?

The bible talks about hell but at the moment, I can't see anything that describes where it actually came from

the "hell" in the Bible is one of the primordial appearances/spirits of the "darkness", and all such appearances/spirits are not made of God, but issue from the "darkness" via the system of spiritual/religious iniquity, the "hell" is the subordinate appearance of the "death"

Revelation 6:8 "And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him."

Blessings