Did Jesus go to hell between his death and resurrection?

[Kathi]

Where was paradise prior to Jesus' death that the thief went? Where is it today?


My question would then be if everything is presently under Jesus’ power, and He is exercising that power, why do we not yet see all things under Him?

Heb 2:8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.

In other words, is there the possibility Jesus has been given but not yet taken that ALL authority of Rev 1:8? I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. Will receiving His own throne on the Lord’s Day affect the authority He exercises?

Thanks.

Prior to Jesus death paradise was a place for the believers to go.You can read about it in Luke 16:19-31.The rich man resided in what was then Sheol but is now Hades.When Jesus died he went down to Sheol and Paradise and He brought the believers in Paradise with him to heaven.

 

[Eugene]

Prior to Jesus death paradise was a place for the believers to go.You can read about it in Luke

Agreed, but I'm of an opinion that is not the theology that was presented by for_his_glory on Post #15 at http://christianforums.net/Fellowsh...his-death-and-resurrection.52129/#post-892231.

Thanks.

 

[Kathi]

Agreed, but I'm of an opinion that is not the theology that was presented by for_his_glory on Post #15 at http://christianforums.net/Fellowsh...his-death-and-resurrection.52129/#post-892231.

Thanks.

I know we either.Their are many different interpretations on this board.

 

[agua.]

In the Hebrews scriptures,the word to describe the realm of the dead is sheol.It means "place of the dead" or "place of the departed souls/spirits".The New Testament Greek equivalent of sheol/hades is hades which also means "the place of the dead".Scripture in the New Testament indicate that sheol/hades is a temporary place,where souls are kept as they await the final resurrection and judgment Revelation 20:11-15.
Hell (the lake of fire) is the permanent and final place of judgment for the lost.So,no,Jesus did not go to hell because hell is a future realm,only put into effect after the Great White Throne Judgment Revelation 20:11-15.
The abode of the saved was called "Paradise" and "Abraham's bosom".When Jesus ascended to heaven,He took the occupants of Paradise with him Ephesians 4:8-10.
Did Jesus go to sheol/hades? yes,according to Ephesians 4:8-10 and 1 Peter 3:18-20.Jesus did not go to sheol/hades to be punished farther for his sins like many believe?no.This is not biblical.
The Bible is not entirely clear what exactly Christ did for three days between His death and resurrection.It seems that He was preaching victory over the fallen angels and unbelievers.We know for sure that Jesus was not giving people a second chance for salvation Hebrews 9:27.What Jesus did in those three days is something that we might find out when we get to heaven.

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Gday Kathi,

Aside from the discrepancies of what hell is and if it remains after it's tossed into the LOF ( it seems hell is related to death in Rev 20 ) I want to look at the passages in 1 Peter 3 & 4. I think the section which contains Jesus preaching to spirits in prison is about encouragement to us believers to remain strong in the face of adversity. This topic begins at about 1Peter3:14

1Pe 3:14 But and if ye suffer for righteousness' sake, happy are ye: and be not afraid of their terror, neither be troubled;

and continues to the end around 1Peter4

1Pe 4:19 Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.

In the middle of this topic we see the strange mention of Jesus preaching to spirits in prison which many suggest occurred while Jesus was in the tomb. I think if we accept the subject matter,( encouragement for believers by the Spirit of Jesus ) then it becomes clearer when and where this preaching took place.

1Pe 3:19-20 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; (20) Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

The preaching took place in the days preceding the flood when the Spirit of Jesus was active in Noah. Noah was encouraged and stood fast in his faith and message and we are encouraged to do the same. The spirits in prison are those who disregarded Noah's preaching and some translations insert "now in prison" to make this more clear. All dead unbelievers are "in prison" awaiting resurrection and judgment.

 

[Kathi]

Gday Kathi,

Aside from the discrepancies of what hell is and if it remains after it's tossed into the LOF ( it seems hell is related to death in Rev 20 ) I want to look at the passages in 1 Peter 3 & 4. I think the section which contains Jesus preaching to spirits in prison is about encouragement to us believers to remain strong in the face of adversity. This topic begins at about 1Peter3:14

1Pe 3:14 But and if ye suffer for righteousness' sake, happy are ye: and be not afraid of their terror, neither be troubled;

and continues to the end around 1Peter4

1Pe 4:19 Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.

In the middle of this topic we see the strange mention of Jesus preaching to spirits in prison which many suggest occurred while Jesus was in the tomb. I think if we accept the subject matter,( encouragement for believers by the Spirit of Jesus ) then it becomes clearer when and where this preaching took place.

1Pe 3:19-20 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; (20) Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

The preaching took place in the days preceding the flood when the Spirit of Jesus was active in Noah. Noah was encouraged and stood fast in his faith and message and we are encouraged to do the same. The spirits in prison are those who disregarded Noah's preaching and some translations insert "now in prison" to make this more clear. All dead unbelievers are "in prison" awaiting resurrection and judgment.

HU???

 

[agua.]

HU???

Maybe read it again. 3 times :D ?

Take a look at the NASB rendering and see if it makes sense.

1 Peter 3:19-20
New American Standard Bible (NASB)

For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit;
in which also He went and made proclamation to the spirits now in prison, who once were disobedient, when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through the water.

What do you think ?

 

[Randy]

My Take:
Jesus (alive by the Spirit during the 3 days-) not dead or punished went and preached to the spirits (mankind) in prison. Those that died apart from law and before the gospel message was given. They were judged according to the flesh that they may live according to the Spirit. In other words Jesus also saved them. This is consistent with Paul's statement that in the past God left the sins "unpunished" . And Jesus's statement that Sodom and Gomorrah would have a better judgment then Capernaum. For if Sodom and Gomorrah had seen Jesus's works they would have repented. And Jesus's s statement that if He had not come and preached to the people they would not be guilty but to those that saw and rejected His message their guilt remained on them. With light comes accountability. The good news of the gospel also has many warnings just as the original covenant had curses and blessing and that message is preached to all nations. We are not free to sin and Jesus is the way to the Father. (how God chose to forgive sin)

Randy

 

[JLB]

The point has been made already but needs to be made again: Sheol is not hell. The Hebrew word Sheol means "grave" and its NT equivalent is the Greek hades. Unfortunately some translations translate three different words as hell, which is incorrect.

23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 And he cried and said , Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. Luke 16:23-24

The word for hell here is Hades. It is a place of fire and torment for those who are separated from God at death.

I believe hell is a good translation here, as it portrays clearly what the fate is of those who reject God and His Son, Jesus Christ The Messiah.

The fear of the Lord is a fountain of life, that turns one away from the snares of death.


JLB

 

[JLB]

My Take:
Jesus (alive by the Spirit during the 3 days-) not dead or punished went and preached to the spirits (mankind) in prison. Those that died apart from law and before the gospel message was given. They were judged according to the flesh that they may live according to the Spirit. In other words Jesus also saved them. This is consistent with Paul's statement that in the past God left the sins "unpunished" . And Jesus's statement that Sodom and Gomorrah would have a better judgment then Capernaum. For if Sodom and Gomorrah had seen Jesus's works they would have repented. And Jesus's s statement that if He had not come and preached to the people they would not be guilty but to those that saw and rejected His message their guilt remained on them. With light comes accountability. The good news of the gospel also has many warnings just as the original covenant had curses and blessing and that message is preached to all nations. We are not free to sin and Jesus is the way to the Father. (how God chose to forgive sin)

Randy

The spirits are those angels who were rebellious and married the daughters of men in the days of Noah.

18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, 19 by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water.
1 Peter 3:18-19

Jude says it this way -

6 And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day;

and Peter says again -

4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned , but cast them down to hell , and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;


JLB

 

[Eugene]

From studies I have on the following subject.
Paradise & Captivity Captive

http://www.gracegod.com/Study Books/Corinthians - Devine order Established1 - Copy.pdf
First. Paradise is in the third heaven, whence Jesus “led a multitude of captives,” when He ascended on high - (Eph. 4:8);

http://www.gracegod.com/Study Books/Ephesians - Exaltation of the Sons of God.pdf
BASIS FOR VARIOUS GIFTS

"But unto each one of us was the grace given according to the measure of the Gift of Christ" - 4:7 Revised Version. The grace, or favor, mentioned here is provisional. It "was ... given. The measure of this favor is "the Gift of Christ," or God's Anointed One. The Greek word for "gift" is "dorea," which literally means "a free gift, an undeserved gift." It refers directly to Jesus here. He is the "unspeakable Gift" of II Corinthians 9:15, and "the heavenly Gift" of Hebrews 6:4. God gave His Son freely. There was no merit in man that demanded such a Gift. There was no cause in him, except his unspeakable need, which called down this unspeakable Gift. Now in Christ - God's great Gift - each of us has been granted great grace, in measure comparing with the greatness of Christ. This is the apostle's meaning in I Corinthians 1:4, 5 R.V. He thanks God "for the grace of God which was given you in Christ Jesus; that in everything ye were enriched in Him." Here, in Ephesians 4:7, is indicated the measure of that enrichment. There is no lack, therefore, to those who trust in Jesus and make runs on the bank of Heaven. The next verse is based upon the fact expressed in verse seven.

"Wherefore He saith, When He ascended up on high, He led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men" - 4:8. In this verse, reference is had to Judges 5:12. The Lord aroused Barak to deliver Israel from captivity to the Canaanites. Psalm 68:18 is especially referred to, which will have its fullest fulfillment when Jesus will reveal Himself to Israel. But Paul gives it another application also. Who does he see in captivity? The phrase, "the lower parts of the earth" (Ephesians 4:9), intimates that it is some company below. "Abraham's bosom," where the spirit of poor Lazarus was kept, was in the same place. Jesus called it "paradise" (Luke 23:43), whence He took the thief who believed on Him. Doubtless many, who did not accept Noah's

message in time to enter the ark, afterward believed it as the rain was falling. To them Jesus went in His own Spirit, while His body was in the grave, and announced the victory which He had just accomplished on the Cross for them and for all who believe. Of course, all the other believing spirits in "the lower parts of the earth" heard His glad message. Did He not then loosen those prisoners by making them His captives, so that He could take them up to Heaven with Him? That is exactly what He did. "He led captivity captive." This is rendered variously, and every rendering is interesting. The margin says, "He led a multitude of captives," which was emphatically true; for the spirits of the saved were there from Adam to Christ. Another version says, "He captivated a captivity."

Now, contrast Luke's location of paradise (Luke 23:43) with that of Paul - II Corinthians 12:2, 4. He declares that paradise is now in "the third Heaven," and that he "knew a man in Christ ... caught up" there. Furthermore, in II Corinthians 5:8, he shows that those who are "absent from the body" now are "present with the Lord." For that reason, he had "a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better" than to continue on earth, tempted and tried, beaten and bruised. See Philippians 1:23. What became of those saints, whose bodies arose from the grave and went into Jerusalem on the day of Christ's resurrection? - Matthew 27:52, 53. They are, no doubt, "the spirits of just men made perfect" (Hebrews 12:23); for Jesus' resurrection was His perfection. Compare Luke 13:32 with Philippians 3:12. Now, if Paul does not mean by Ephesians 4:8 that Jesus emptied the prison house of the believing dead and took their spirits to Heaven, why does he set Christ's ascension over against His descent "into the lower parts of the earth"? Why does he put the significant question of verse nine? Certainly His body went not only into the grave, but His spirit went into the lower parts of the earth. Jesus' own words confirm this. He said, "For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth" - Matthew 12:40. "The heart of the earth" and "the lower parts of the earth" are the same identical locality. I Peter 3:18-20 confirms this thought - Christ was "put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit; by which also He went and preached unto the spirits in prison."

 

[stovebolts]

What do the greeks say about Hades?... After all, the term came from their culture.

In other words, what did the word Hades mean to those who heard it before it was translated to the mythological Norse word we now know and understand as Hell?

 

[Eugene]

What do the greeks say about Hades?... After all, the term came from their culture.

In other words, what did the word Hades mean to those who heard it before it was translated to the mythological Norse word we now know and understand as Hell?

Hey brother, he in their thinking was god of the underworld.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hades
Wikipedia - Hades (/ˈheɪdiːz/; from Ancient GreekἍιδης/ᾍδης,Hāidēs; Doric Ἀΐδας Aidas) was the ancient Greekgod of the underworld. Eventually, the god's name came to designate the abode of the dead.

Now Paul was not Greek and what thinking did he bring forth in describing the righteous dead prior to Jesus making open heaven to them? How did Luke portray them as being in Abraham's bosom? He was a Gentile, lived in the Greek city Antioch, but was he Greek?

I am interested in what you have to say concerning these doctrines. Thanks.

 

[for_his_glory]

Eugene, when Jesus told the thief he would be with Him in paradise Jesus was speaking of the new Heaven and earth that is ushered down after we have been caught up to meet Him in the air, Rev 21

Jesus has all power and authority being that same Spirit once in the form of flesh, which is God from the beginning, John 1:1-5. Jesus has all power and authority over His adversaries as God said, "do not touch mine anointed, (those who come against God children 1 Chronicles 16:15-22 ). For instance the story of Job. God allowed Satan to come against him, but was not allowed to take him out. The same today with us that Satan will always try to come against us, but through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit by the grace of God we too can exercise Gods power and authority to stand against our adversaries. God is Spirit, Jesus is Spirit, the Holy Spirit is Spirit as it is all Gods Spirit manifested in different forms. Flesh and blood can not inherit the Kingdom of God and this is why when Jesus ascended he drew back to Spirit once again to sit at the right hand of God. Jesus reigns from Heaven, but not on a literal throne, but that of all things Spiritual.

 

[Free]

23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 And he cried and said , Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. Luke 16:23-24

The word for hell here is Hades. It is a place of fire and torment for those who are separated from God at death.

I believe hell is a good translation here, as it portrays clearly what the fate is of those who reject God and His Son, Jesus Christ The Messiah.

The fear of the Lord is a fountain of life, that turns one away from the snares of death.

JLB

This is pre-resurrection and not necessarily speaking of the final resting place of the wicked. I don't think that hell is the best word here since hades, as the OT equivalent of sheol, is simply the abode of the dead, the grave. Gehenna is what Jesus used as the final destination of the wicked and I believe that that is the lake of fire, the one and only hell.

 

[Free]

God is Spirit, Jesus is Spirit, the Holy Spirit is Spirit as it is all Gods Spirit manifested in different forms.

That is Oneness/modalism teaching and is error. Jesus was spirit, but no longer.

Flesh and blood can not inherit the Kingdom of God and this is why when Jesus ascended he drew back to Spirit once again to sit at the right hand of God. Jesus reigns from Heaven, but not on a literal throne, but that of all things Spiritual.

That is not what the Bible means when it says flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. Nor can you support with Scripture that "when Jesus ascended he drew back to Spirit once again". Jesus was physically raised but in a glorified physical body, with which he went back to the right hand of God, forever the God-man. And we will also have glorified physical bodies; we will not be disembodied spirits floating around.

 

[for_his_glory]

That is Oneness/modalism teaching and is error. Jesus was spirit, but no longer.


That is not what the Bible means when it says flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. Nor can you support with Scripture that "when Jesus ascended he drew back to Spirit once again". Jesus was physically raised but in a glorified physical body, with which he went back to the right hand of God, forever the God-man. And we will also have glorified physical bodies; we will not be disembodied spirits floating around.

Can you explain what is a natural body and a Spiritual body as these verses all say we are raised a Spiritual body just as Jesus was.

1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
1Co 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
1Co 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

1Pe 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:


1Jn 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

 

[Free]

Can you explain what is a natural body and a Spiritual body as these verses all say we are raised a Spiritual body just as Jesus was.

1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
1Co 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
1Co 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

1Pe 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:


1Jn 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

Well, first it must be noted that what appears to be contrasted here is "natural" and "spiritual," where "natural" does not necessarily mean "physical". We must also consider that Jesus was physically raised in a glorified body and there is absolutely nothing in Scripture to suggest that he is now only spirit. Looking at additional context, we see:

1 Cor 15:3-8, 3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures, 5 and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. 6 Then he appeared to more than five hundred brothers at one time, most of whom are still alive, though some have fallen asleep. 7 Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles. 8 Last of all, as to one untimely born, he appeared also to me. (ESV)

Notice that Paul speaks of Jesus' post-resurrection appearances to others, which were prior to his ascension, then says that "Last of all...he appeared also to me," which was some time after his ascension. There is no reason to think that Jesus appeared in some other form to Paul than he did to the rest, although it is possible of course.

Also:

1 Cor 15:50-53, 50 I tell you this, brothers: flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51 Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed. 53 For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality. (ESV)

In what way are the dead raised imperishable? Simply as spirits? Is God merely raising spirits from the ground? It doesn't seem likely as Paul continues on to say that those alive will also changed, and significantly, that "this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality." He seems to be stating that will have our bodies but that they will somehow be changed, putting on the imperishable and immortality. This would be no different than the body Jesus had when he was raised from the dead--able to walk through walls yet able to eat food and be physically touched; still recognizable.

 

[for_his_glory]

Free, how can we have literal fleshly bodies from the grave? Do you truly believe Abraham, Jacob, and all the others before us that have died in the Lord still have a physical body? Reread 1 John 3:2 for it says none of us will know what we will look like, but we will be like Jesus as He is now. If we are raised in a Spiritual body then we will not be of this natural flesh. You can interpret it any way you want by how you are taught, but I will believe what has already been written.

 

[jasoncran]

here this will help jeff.

I will post what some don't know that lead me to see thing jeffs way. two years ago my grandma died and I called jeff and mentioned that and he asked whom would do the kaddish and I said I don't know. so we discussed the jewish views of the afterlife and what jesus said and well about a year or more later while talking about hell. I saw that from this.

I don't agree with that all

on sheol and hades so that you can at least get the gist.

http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Sheol

look for hades there and even gehenna. its not a faith site but more of encyclopedia.

now then for the jewish views.

http://www.chabad.org/kabbalah/article_cdo/aid/380844/jewish/Straight-Path-to-Heaven-123.htm

 

[Eugene]

@for_his_glory

I have read the reasoning of Christ not having a body, but I would ask the meaning of 1Jn 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

Rev_1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

Next I submit Mat 27:53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

Again as someone else said concerning Jesus appearing to His disciples after His resurrection. Then there was Elias and Moses appearing on the mount with Jesus’

Thanks.